I will be unable to finish the topic due to this stupid computer causing me to lose my yahoo id at times. Unsure of the problems as my ethernet went on the blink earlier
"and it came to pass that the beggar died and was carried away by the angels into Abrahams bosom " A. this is impossible for several reasons 1. according to Gen 3:17-19 Job 10:9 Ps. 90:3, 104:29, 146:3-4 and Ecc 3:18-21. 2. Abraham died and was buried in a cave. See Gen 25:8-9 3. David died and was buried. Now here is it mentioned he is also in Abraham's bosom. If I am incorrect, give me the scripture on David from the Tanakh. "the rich man also died and he was buried and in hades he lift up his eyes" impossible. where did he get new eyes? Not literally possible. Isn't hades imperceptible and unseen? There is no consciousness either. See Ps.146:4, Ecc.9:10 also read Ps6: 5--"for in death there is no remembrance of thee, In the grave who shall give thee thanks?"
which fell from the rich mans table" I am assure you the wealthy do not eat like dogs. They have cooks and maids and eat from fine China. No crumbs fall to the floor, and surely not enough to feed a mouse. So this is not literal. It is an axiom as a Psalms 37:25 gives the Godly answer. Was Lazarus Godly or righteous? Let us see. "moreover the dogs came and licked his sores " How or why would dogs come inside a mans house to lick his sores? Didn't they also come for food scraps? Because dogs did not come in. Dogs here have a different meaning. They have a spiritual or scriptural meaning. And here lies a clue as to who Lazarus is OR represents and who the dog companions were. And who is this ' rich man' ? The rich man was blessed by G-D, Deu.28:1-12 Gal 6:7 II Cor 9:6-7 Jas 1:17 Lazarus was obviously cursed by G-D--Deu28:16,27,29. in real life he didn't help others, aka poor in spirit AND poor in body
that prophet was Joshua in which the Hebrews did follow into the land which would become Israel. I do acknowledge your take, however, I told surferjoe I would post the Rich man and Lazarus and if yahoo allows me, I will do it line by line. Already they are making me answer my own post
it is no virtue to beg for bread. Psalms 37:25--yet have I not seen the righteous foresaken, nor his seed begging for bread " A. there is absolutely not one thing to indicate that Lazarus was a righteous man. Only when his identity becomes known can we tell. Well, let us find out ! He was not literally diseased. I is an axiom spoken here.
" and fared sumptuously every day " A. is it a sin to be cheerful and have a glad heart? Doesn't G-D give a merry heart to those who do right? Phi. 2:19, Acts 2:26 come into mind. " and there was a certain beggar " A. is poverty a virtue? or a blessing from G-D? Read Prov. 6:10-11, 10:4, 13:4, Gal. 6:7 II Cor 9:6-7 I Sam 2:7 " named Lazarus " A. Lazarus can mean helpless. The real question is why is that name used? What parent would name a child---helpless-- B. So the question becomes why is no name given to the rich man yet the poor beggar is given a name Helpless in this parable. So can we determine who the rich man really was and who is the ' real ' Lazarus ? Let us find out "which was laid at his gate, full of sores " Now doesn't that sound just dandy !! A. In scripture being full of sores is associated as a curse from G-D. See Ex.9:2 Job 2:7 Deut 28:27, 35 Rev. 16:2, etc
having looked over both columns, it becomes obvious that the rich man did not exhibit character traits for a Hades as described for him. Also nothing is listed as to why Lazarus is supposedly in a better place. so, by literally reading this it makes no sense. So what is the REAL identity of these two? Herein, is where the parable attribute starts. The rich man received good things in life, but why did Lazarus receive evil in life. Isn't G-D a rewarder of them that do rightly? And punishes them that are unjust? Would a good man eat crumbs? Doesn't scripture say, " that I have never seen the righteous begging for bread" ? Do you know the true meaning of Jesus parable the rich man and the eye of the needle? If not ponder on it. a man can be rich and do right, or rich and do wrong as can a poor man do right or do wrong. What is doing right? Is it merely a physical thing of being polite, etc. OR is it a spiritual matter? What types of spiritual matter does G-D require? Ok. Let us break this thing down verse by verse, shall we?
The rich man was----A. rich, v 19 B. wore purple and cambric,v 19 C. made merry daily,v 19 D. had a nice "house ",v20 E. he gave Lazarus food,v 21 F. he died,v 22 G. he lifts his eyes in Hades,v 23 H. he is in torments, v 22 I. he is alive with a body and eyes, v23 J.he desires water, v 24 K. in life he got good things,v25 L. he was respectful to authority,v24 M. he is tormented, v25 N. he could not cross the gulf, v26 O. exhibits love towards his family, v28 P. pleads for their welfare v30 Lazarus was----A. poor, v 20 B. probably crippled/diseased, v 20 C. hungry, v 21 D. he died, v 22 E. is carried to Abraham's bosom, v 22 E. he is alive with a body, v 24 F. in life he got evil things, v 25 G. was comforted, v 25 H. he could not cross the gulf, v 26 ********** consider what has been written, then LET US analyze
this week starts this teaching. This is a parable taught by a man named Jesus. Parables are not true, but rather generally contain deeper truths. Jesus taught many parables, none of which are to be taken literally. Starting in Luke 15, he begins a series of 5 parables with the Rich man parable being last in Chapter 16. #1 Lost sheep #2 of the pieces of silver #3the prodigal son #4 the unjust servant #5 The Rich Man and Lazarus. An interesting side not for you is that the King James uses for the #3 parable at v 11-- "and he said, ' a certain man #4 L Ch.16, v1 ""there was a certain rich man #5 L Ch16 v19, ""There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day" " according to Christian teaching the rich man is in a place of torment and poor Lazarus is being comforted. This a lie and I will prove it in the coming sessions. This is a rather lengthy topic and i intend to number them for future reference when you banter against my take on this. Make sure to refer me to the correct number for me to respond when i can. My original writing is 30+ pages this may prove controversial
is there a reason why he should? Israel is a big boy now and doesn't need America to always hold its hand. By the way, just what do you expect President Obama to propose to do to or for Iran? and why?
actually the President who spent the most time out of the White House was George W. Bush. Those facts are public records accessible. I think the next non working President was Ronald Reagan for the least amount of time on the job. As to his days actually at the WH he averaged a 45 minute work day. And one of the more workerholic presidents was William J. Clinton. having said all this, G-D appoints the leaders of all nations. I suggest you check scriptures to try to disapprove that statement. having said that, might I also suggest to pray for all leaders so they may lead us in a quiet and peaceful life? happy shabbut
really? Then rabbi Jesus said the laws were of no accord and irrelevant? OR did he say keep the laws and commandments? Did he set an example for you Elijahrev737 or not? if he did, what did he do? Ok, I did read your scripture verses. Do you believe that quote? Why? Elijahrev do you know the correct meaning of " chief cornerstone"? #1. I do #2.if you are a disciple of Jesus, then I can reasonably assume you do as he did? by helping the poor, downtrodden and hungry? Or do you give money to a church and think you did a good thing and G-D blesses you for your offering of money? Which would Jesus do--drop $20 in a church collection plate/bucket OR go to the skid row area and buy a vagrant a good meal and then hand him the change after he finished eating. Doesn't matter whether that Person would buy a bottle. That is not the issue. The issue is did you help a downtrodden human made in the image of G-D?
I agree with you donkeyrear. There were 70 language with the 70 family groupings. That occurred after the confusion of languages at Babel if I recall correctly. Now there are over 6000 but languages are dying out yearly now and English, Spanish and Mandarin start to dominate. God will never permit one universal language. as to languages of angels. Angels only speak a human language when dealing with humans #1 no where does it say any of the old prophets needed an interpretor to communicate with a vision, dream or visitation. It does say, however, the dreams needed to be explained to the prophets at times. And that would have been done in the language of the prophet. Be it Hebrew, Aramic or Chaldean. #2. G-D wants us to say our prayers or gratitudes to him in the language that we know. Be it Hebrew, German, etc. I suggest these people be very careful when opening their minds to the unknown
Raven did quote verse 4 of Jude. You are using a different protestant bible. #1. Jesus never spoke of things outside the Torah did he? Didn't he just put a different spin on them? #2 as I have posted in prior times, if you fail to keep all the laws, then G-D accepts a humble repetance without a middle man, be he a priest or Jesus. Raven is merely pointing out the fact the Jesus never did away with the laws of Torah and IF you want to be a follower of rabbi Jesus then you must also keep those same laws and precepts. Otherwise you are no disciple of his. Raven is telling you your basis for spirituality if false irregardless of what your feeling tell you unless you follow Torah. Your bible tells you there is a way which seems good but in the end there is destruction. I am saying 2 Billion Christians are wrong. Raven and Donkeyrear are quoting correctly from the Christian perspective. You are not, and therein lies your problem. As for me, I obviously do not accept Jesus but if I did Raven's approach is the proper path do you read books? I am reading an interesting one called ZEALOT by Reza Aslan
did you read my post of the group called The Way?
well I intend to reply anyways. # I posted and said the tongues spoken of in Acts was people speaking in an understood language, i.e. You speak English/I speak Italian. Somehow you get secretly inspired and get the ability to talk to me in Italian and you then tell me religious stories. I am impressed, not by the fables, but rather your ability to speak my language. #2 Pentecost was not a bunch of jibber according to the mainline pastors I have spoken with. #3 I assume you speak jibber but are lead by your brain to think this is somehow holy. #4 OK. I have literal intrepration of Acts Pentecost posted. Now you step up and give me the deeper meaning. I am interested in how unknown babble spoken of in pentecost churches, such as Assembly of God, where no one understands a thing in any way edifies God the Creator or stirs up spiritual yearning in an unbeliever of Jesus such as myself