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L & L Energy, Inc. Message Board

madaniels57 4798 posts  |  Last Activity: 19 hours ago Member since: Jun 9, 2009
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  • Reply to

    4900% not bad

    by terrissmith850 20 hours ago
    madaniels57 madaniels57 19 hours ago Flag

    LOL....dummy,,,,,It traded down to .0001 yesterday on a bogus trade. It's happened before..It will happaen again.

  • They held their ground, judge had set a new court schedule for a trial in 2015....7/13/2015 to be exact.

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 28, 2014 11:41 PM Flag

    If you study that graph, the first thing you will notice is that libertarianism is not as pure of policy as the graph suggests.

    Nor are any of the others, so there is a grey area where policy arguments and principles shift over time then shift back.

    For example, in the 1940s, democrats then are very much like republicans to day, except for the blatent racism. Democrats over the years have managed to accuse republicans of doing and believing things they never did. It always has been liberals who use race as a political issue and they play on both sides of it.

    Republicans gerally, or more specifically Conservatives, see race as a non issue and view a person on their merits.

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 28, 2014 11:32 PM Flag

    This might help some...

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 28, 2014 11:28 PM Flag

    "totally opposite to
    the despicable thinking of libertards."

    Not really......not these libtards.

    These libtards are pushing for the legalization of marijuana and some other drugs. are libertarians.

    Abortion, equality, rights are all libtard buzz words. Libertarians are in favor of all that as a general policy.

    The real difference is that libertarians despise big government and liberals love it.

    On the other hand libertarians agree with conservatives that the people hold the power and grant some of it to government as the people see fit.

    Libtards see the power as belonging to government and then loaned out to the people as the government sees fit.

    In my view, this is the real difference and what separates liberal and their Marxist friends from conservatives and libertarians.

    Again, it is pretty complicated when you try to sort it out.

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 28, 2014 11:18 PM Flag

    Libertarianism is exactly opposite of authoritarianism, both are locked in a political opposition.

    Obama is a authoritarian Marxist. probably opposed to some liberal points of view, however there are few liberal left in the democrat leadership.

    Libertarians are closer to liberals then are to conservatives generally.

    Conservatives are law and order types, libertarians are all about free will and no restrictions. But Conservatives also despise authoritarians.

    Conservatives are all about keeping traditions that have worked well for 100s of years, Libertarians are more about tearing all that down.

    Both liberals and conservatives share part or parts of the libertarian views however. Just as some Conservatives and some liberals can become authoritarians given that they have no opposing group or groups against them to moderate their behaviors.

    There are also differences between these labels in America and in Europe. In Europe Conservatives are mislabeled as fascists. This stems from the Italian Mussolini but fascism was actually a political movement with a party of the same name. It began the era of crony capitalism and requires a authoritarian leader or tyrant.

    It's complicated, but the root word of libertarianism is indeed liberal or liberalist. To" liberate" in thought and actions...actually could be construed as a anarchist is some libertarian groups that are extreme.

    Ron Paul, for example, is really a blend of conservatism and liberalism however he is socially liberal and fiscally conservative.. He is also a isolationist, a trait that conservatives gave up and purged some 60 years ago. Libertarians have adopted it.

    I could go on and try to show the differences between classical liberalism and Marxism , and the conservative offshoots, but I would write a book. and I have not even mentioned communism.

  • Reply to

    Kabani's audits

    by hyulpy Jul 26, 2014 3:40 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 28, 2014 12:14 PM Flag

    Kabani has admitted no wrongdoing, but yes, they are certainly subject to law suits.

    I suppose you could file a suit now, however proceedings on it are stayed pending the results of the criminal matters. I don't expect that to happen until next year unless he pleas out.

    I would wait for more ammunition against Kabani. Currently there is none but some may be revealed. If you recall, the SEC has a ongoing investigation into LLEN on the civil side. It too is stayed pending the criminal charges.

    If the SEC charges Kabani, you will then have your opening to proceed. IMO

  • Reply to

    Kabani's audits

    by hyulpy Jul 26, 2014 3:40 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 27, 2014 8:28 PM Flag

    "Maybe there's more to it than that."

    Well that's a understatement if I ever heard one.

    The fact is, LLEN was a fraud.

    Those of us who understand and share that thought, do differ on some of the details.

    I don't know how much Kabani knew. Even Lee's own close associate's were snookered. Kabani, I am sure, received doctored raw reports to compare to the accounting it was also reviewing to do the audit,. But they have a history of occasionally getting into this mess. Just don't know if they did it on purpose. Lee could have been paying them a bonus to keep auditing with a promise to keep them protected.

    With Lee gone....bonus gone....and the asset too are gone. Not just uncollectable.

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 27, 2014 8:22 PM Flag

    All conservatives enjoy a (small l) libertine side to them. I have that too..

    I am referring to the Libertarian aficionados of today. Although much of their shared political believes are somewhat fractious and unevenly shared, the root of Libertarianism is the word Liberal. But they take it in a different direction.

    But it's a great stopping point for a person to gather his/her beliefs and merge them with a political underpinning. Many Conservatives take the route through the libertarians to get to Conservatism.

    We just vote for most Republicans, we don't like too many of them right now.

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 27, 2014 8:15 PM Flag

    Yeah, you must be young. lol

    Of course when I first began to drive, gas was 24 cents a gallon. To me it was not that long ago. (the 60s)

    Much of the increase in gas price in the US is due to problems in the Middle east, combined with increases in taxes , fees and regulatory costs at the well heads and refineries. They do it this way so you can't see it. (note I did not mention federal taxes which have been fairly stable) State taxes have risen dramatically to help paid for increased demands on state governments and they are now after the federal taxes on gasoline to help pay for checks written by government that their #$%$-es cannot cash.

    Yes, transport costs based on the fuels they need , do indeed put a damper on certain economic areas. But they are just one of many factors and all of them are going out of control, including inflationary price increases and little movement on wages.

    When this thing finally lays over and goes, it will make 2008 look like a kids birthday party.

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 27, 2014 8:03 PM Flag

    That's all utter horse puckey.

    All, of that is refutable.

    Not going to do it on the board, and generally I don't even try to argue with liberals. I have found it to be a total waste of time because they rely on their own errant political propaganda and they keep repeating it, endlessly and have never thought things out in a open minded critical thinking way. it's foreign to them and you can't fix stupid.

    By the way, we will never have a balanced budget with democrats at the helm unless they can raise taxes again and again and again until the economy's blood is gone. It's what they do, left unfettered.

    We can never pay this debt that Obama has run up since the Bush admin. Taking the debt as it was when Bush left office, we still cannot pay it in todays real dollars. Even if the dollar was devalued, it would take generations and we are still adding to that debt despite republican efforts to curb spending which have all died in the Senate.

    What we will have left to turn over to over kids is a broken and utterly hopeless country with a unpayable burden of debt, a sick economy and still today with this greatly improving economy you crow liberal lap dogs about we continue to borrow money to pay over extended social obligations.

    Those boomers are retiring, but most of them are retiring early due to job loss and inability to find replacement jobs unless they are part time. So they are doing what they have to do and filing for disability.

    The disability industry and government services and their private contractors are where the economy is growing and unemployment is low.

    Everyone else (the minority) is being taxed and fee's to death to pay for it. But it will never be enough.

    We are totally F'd!

    The only reason the US looks better to investors is that Western Europe is even worse.

    All your accusations

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 26, 2014 1:55 PM Flag

    ahhh....well I would point out to you that some people in both parties are gloom and doomers. most of them I do not know their affiliation.

    Are you saying the market is up because of Obama? Or anything Democrats have done.

    If you are I would disagree .....

    What the gloom and doomers are saying, apparently prematurely, is that there are bubbles forming all over and at some point a catalyst will set them off. They are having a hard time making sense out of long held economic theory that if you shove to much cash into a economy, the excess money will chase too few goods and inflation will rise beyond the ability of the fed to control.

    Interest rates have been too low for too long.

    The debt is outrageous and unimaginable.

    The total market of available jobs has shrunk to 50 year lows.

    The total workforce has shrunk with it.

    Over 50%, a majority of the US population depends on government checks for employment or benefits.

    Food stamps recipient's are at record never anticipated levels.

    The world is destabilizing in many areas.

    gas prices are still to high

    and after all that the market is going up.

    Like a broken clock the gloom and doomers will eventually be correct.

  • Reply to

    LLen now is in life support.......

    by trungkimthu Jul 25, 2014 2:21 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 26, 2014 1:43 PM Flag

    Well, the investigations began months before lee was arrested.

    Lastly it's a small almost insignificant company. If it were a biggun, they would have acted sooner I believe. The SEC is not the paramount of virtue. They did not have evidence until they raided the office, and finished a half dozen interviews of people, some of which are hard to get together with. But I don't think that is what you wanted to know.

    Here is what you need to consider.

    These are but the criminal charges. That particular violation carries a criminal penalty since Enron.

    The Civil SEC charges and the investigation at last report were still active but they have been stayed pending the conclusion of the Criminal case. Even the Class actions are stayed. All of the federal cases.

    So all of that is yet to come. all pending the criminal case. and we don't know yet what they will charge.

  • Reply to


    by hopewillhelpyou Jul 25, 2014 7:49 AM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 26, 2014 8:14 AM Flag

    I guess you would have had to join the secret board...

  • Reply to

    To the Moon Alice !

    by mrmuckle2012 Jul 25, 2014 10:37 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 26, 2014 8:12 AM Flag

    Well, I'm a Conservative who votes Republican.

    I suspect, based on comments here that many of them are indeed Democrats, or libertarians.

  • madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 25, 2014 8:41 PM Flag

    ".probably no entertainment value least for a while.."

    Well we have Lee's and LLEN's trial.

    That lee's is scheduled for the end of the year, but I'll take a guess and say it's likely to be postponed. No telling what he might do...probably fire his counsel and whine....

    Then there should be a officer and board exodus from LLEN...they might report it...but I certainly not much of it.
    If you are waiting for a comeback story.....fuhgetaboutit....

  • madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 25, 2014 8:34 PM Flag

    I thought he sued the network for not giving him the attention he thought he deserved...Even said everything was fake.

    Actually I am glad I don't have cable anymore.....just a bunch of low brow drivel...ah, ah, ah.

  • Reply to

    LLen now is in life support.......

    by trungkimthu Jul 25, 2014 2:21 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 25, 2014 3:58 PM Flag

    So in summary, I think ALL of the Union deals were just small joint ventures or investments that Lee made with LLEN money. I don't think there are any....recoverable assets there.

    The Dapu and it's sister, (I will call it) may have had some value at one time but I think they are valueless now in terms of what might be left over if he could exit the deal, which I don't think he can because he is in prison. But he has not claim to those assets in any case...that aspect was fake.

    I am not they ever had a cash value at all.

    The wholesale ops, without Lee and these little JV deals he was scamming, is virtually worthless without the coal, assuming that the wholesale ops were even real. I am not sure.

    So there is no liquidation value here. They might owe Lee some money, but they don't owe LLEN anything.

    Lee would cash out if he is ever released. LLEN or it's officers can do nothing.

    As I said when Lee was arrested,

    Without Lee, there is no LLEN.

    and that's the name of that tune....

  • Reply to

    LLen now is in life support.......

    by trungkimthu Jul 25, 2014 2:21 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 25, 2014 3:47 PM Flag

    So you see, if you read the report, that the SEC originated it's case against Lee from a 2011 report.

    Geo's reports, also quite valid, are just icing on the cake.

    Taken together, L&L was being run as a sole proprietorship by Lee and the public stock was just a capital raising tool that he used when he needed cash to make good his promises of a profit to the Chinese nationals who owned or controlled the mines that lee claimed as assets of L&L Energy.

    When one of these deals were about to be exposed he faked a sale, last time trading it out for coal.

    Personally, I lack proof but I think he used Dapuann more recently as a money laundering tool to absorb revenues that were never actually made, as expenses for his fake balance sheet and reports. I think the Dapu and another related mine have been shut down or barely running for a number on years, not months. If you look back on the quarterly reports you will see the huge investments (cash) he was purportedly spending on the mines. I think all this was just to drain off the fake revenue so that he did not have to explain where the cash disappeared to.

  • Reply to

    LLen now is in life support.......

    by trungkimthu Jul 25, 2014 2:21 PM
    madaniels57 madaniels57 Jul 25, 2014 3:35 PM Flag

    Now it has a value of zero...

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