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Energy Transfer Partners, L.P. Message Board

moneyonomics 159 posts  |  Last Activity: 12 hours ago Member since: Jan 16, 2010
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  • moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 26, 2014 5:21 PM Flag

    part 2

    "... If the BIS did make such a change then the implications could run deep. For starters, if condensate can be exported after stabilization, then much of the condensate currently produced in the US – a number RBN estimates as at least 1.2 MMb/d today and expects to increase to 1.6 MMb/d by 2018 – would be eligible for export. That means producers would realize a higher price for condensate in overseas markets where demand is greater than here in the US (e.g. Asia). The change would also relieve pressure on US Gulf Coast light sweet crude prices such as Light Louisiana Sweet (LLS) that have been weighed down by a flood of light crude and condensate barrels descending on refineries not able to process those barrels easily. If the lightest crude can be exported, it would no longer compete for space in domestic refineries meaning crude prices should increase – at least initially. Many producers are hoping that this development is just the first notch in a general BIS retreat from the export ban that would end the regulations for good.

    Wait and See

    Of course, it is entirely possible that the special exemptions for Pioneer and Enterprise are no more than trial balloons – in effect BIS test cases to determine the market impact – and perhaps the political impact – of relaxing export regulations. But assuming some kind of change has really occurred to BIS definitions, producers and midstream companies would be well advised to wait and see the details before jumping on the bandwagon. The crude vs. lease condensate distinction requires more than a verbal definition using the word “condensate”. And a waiver of the export rules has to require more than just “processing through a stabilizer” as a condition. Otherwise, what is to stop crude producers simply putting their regular crude through a stabilizer to classify it for export?..."

  • moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 26, 2014 5:19 PM Flag

    for those wwithout access to rbn some points-part 1

    "The implication of yesterday’s WSJ story and reported follow up statements from one of the companies that has received a ruling from the BIS – Pioneer – is that in this instance at least - the BIS may have changed or loosened or “redefined” what is meant by “processed though a crude oil distillation tower” to include a wellhead process called stabilization that is less complex and/or expensive to carry out than either a condensate splitter or a conventional refinery. In fact, condensate stabilization units are in common use at many Eagle Ford wellhead production facilities or at crude gathering points such as the Plains terminal at Gardendale, TX."

    Splitting Hairs

    An important distinction between a condensate stabilizer and a condensate splitter in the context of this discussion is that the stabilizer is designed to make lease condensate stable and safe for transportation on pipelines and the splitter is designed to break condensate into its component fractions such as naphtha, propane, butane and distillates. A stabilizer outputs condensate, a splitter outputs condensate components. So even if condensate stabilizers are getting more sophisticated these days, they are not designed to split out component fractions.

    What Does The Change Mean?

    So the question of the day is whether or not the BIS has made a subtle change to the definition of what constitutes processing to transform lease condensate into a product that can be exported? In other words, can producers export field condensate once is has passed through a stabilization unit? The answer is unclear based on what we know so far because the statements made have not been specific as to the process required. As we said earlier, this whole thing could be a trial balloon from the BIS to test the waters and see what the response is....

  • moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 25, 2014 8:13 PM Flag

    ny agree they can modify plans if they have not already ordered the equipment as a stabilizer is cheaper to build than a splitter . that was why the kudos to mwe as they chose the simplistic cheaper route before going all in which was discussed at investor conference. ngls is my second largest holding and may not be too far along yet on splitter from recent presentation "35 Mbbl/d condensate splitter located at the Channelview Terminal expected to be completed 18 months after permitting is complete". "TRP has begun permitting, and expects the splitter to be inservice
    18 months after completion of the permitting process", just hope they have not yet ordered all of the equipment

  • Msg 142256 of 142257 at 6/25/2014 2:04:18 PM bry bord by


    Condensate Export Ruling Jeopardizes Splitter Projects: Barclays

    By Barbara Powell
    June 25 (Bloomberg) -- The U.S. approving stabilized
    condensates for export as processed petroleum could delay
    billion-dollar projects to separate ultra-light crude into
    products, Michael Cohen, an analyst at Barclays Capital, says in
    * Decision raises questions about viability of midstream co.-
    announced condensate splitters, hydroskimming units, pre-
    flash towers
    * Short term mkt implications support narrowing of Brent-LLS
    spread; widespread lifting of crude export ban is “out of
    the question” w/o lifting of Jones Act too

  • Reply to

    Condensate approved for export

    by nymarv10956 Jun 24, 2014 5:51 PM
    moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 24, 2014 10:41 PM Flag

    Condensate Export Approval-two different views WSJ (condensate) and FuelFix (after splitter/Distillation tower).

    not sure which article is correct. can read both on iv bry and mlp boards

  • round about way PXD could accelerate drilling and producing more cassinghead gas for processing

  • Reply to

    Condensate approved for export

    by nymarv10956 Jun 24, 2014 5:51 PM
    moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 24, 2014 7:17 PM Flag

    another insticitive move by mwe initially going with a stabilizer rather than all out with a separator/splitter

  • Reply to

    Condensate approved for export

    by nymarv10956 Jun 24, 2014 5:51 PM
    moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 24, 2014 7:15 PM Flag

    thanks ny for find-interesting quandary for KMP

  • Reply to

    Condensate approved for export

    by nymarv10956 Jun 24, 2014 5:51 PM
    moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 24, 2014 6:00 PM Flag

    EPD and PXD
    Christian Berthelsen And
    Lynn Cook
    June 24, 2014 5:14 p.m. ET

    The Obama administration has quietly cleared the way for the first exports of unrefined American oil in four decades, allowing energy companies to chip away at the long-standing ban on selling U.S. crude overseas.

    Federal officials have told two energy companies that they can legally export a kind of ultra-light oil that has become plentiful as drillers tap shale formations across the U.S. With relatively minimal processing, oil shipments could begin as early as August, according to one industry executive involved in the matter.

    Using a process known as a private ruling, the U.S. Commerce Dept.'s Bureau of Industry and Security is allowing Pioneer Natural Resources Co. of Irving, Texas, and Enterprise Products Partners LP of Houston to export ultra-light oil known as condensate to foreign buyers who could turn it into gasoline, jet fuel and diesel.

    Both companies confirmed they had received the rulings.

  • 40,000 bls/d and 200 mmcf/d

  • moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 23, 2014 1:37 PM Flag

    I think it a continuation of the cycling to into higher yield investments, plus on mwe a few others I think its a move to more organic growth mlps

    from some recent posts on iv mlp

    “The midstream is where the money is right now,”....

    "...“The midstream is where the money is right now,” said Bernard Weinstein, associate director of Southern Methodist University’s Maguire Energy Institute, in a telephone interview. “That’s why we’re seeing a lot of acquisition activity.”....

    Could midcap growth mlp's be on the verge of becoming scarce? Will this drive more capital to the remaining visible organic growth MLP's?
    From MLPguy

    "....News of the (MLP) World

    An overwhelming amount of news to process this week, but there were a few big trends worth noting. The way the ACMP transaction went and the way the TRGP/NGLS acquisition by ETE was being speculated (where RGP would be merged into NGLS post acquisition), the sector’s mid-cap growth MLPs are at risk of having that growth diluted for the purposes of solving some other MLP or GP’s problem. That trend makes growth MLPs scarce, and drives more capital into the remaining MLPs that have visible growth.

    The other big picture item is the first MLP IPO filing by a major integrated oil and gas company (Shell Midstream). If more majors launch MLP strategies, it reduces the overall pool of assets for existing MLPs to acquire, which is another argument in favor of MLPs with growth that is not dependent on 3rd party acquisitions generally...."

  • moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 23, 2014 1:01 PM Flag

    ny and dreiser thanks for dialogue, ny thanks for recap

  • Reply to

    July Distribution & Acquisitions Going Forward

    by nosweat82 Jun 19, 2014 10:48 PM
    moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 22, 2014 7:49 PM Flag

    hi nosweat. I would go with .01 due to preferred and still waiting to bring in some DCF from last acquisition (ie having to buy co2 from exxon)

  • moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 21, 2014 4:18 PM Flag

    Msg 38853 of 38870 at 6/20/2014 12:57:32 PM iv mlp by passandshoot

    One Bank's Opinion
    [Credit Suisse]

    Targeting Targa? Our Thoughts...

    Our Thoughts on the News Report: Right before market close, a Bloomberg report noted that ETE "is near an agreement to acquire Targa Resources Corp. [TRGP] and its operating unit [NGLS]" and noted that a deal could be announced as early as next week (with RGP also potentially being involved). Shortly after, Targa responded saying "that they have previously engaged in high level preliminary discussions..., but that those discussions have been terminated." Below are our thoughts on the situation, and what may lie ahead.

    Energy Transfer-Targa Potential Deal: We believe a possible deal that makes sense is for ETE to buy TRGP, and for NGLS to merge with RGP (RGP merging into NGLS). Based on our analysis, on a net basis this is accretive to ETE by at least mid single digits from 2015 onwards. TRGP gets taken out at a large premium (we assume even above the $151/sh close), RGP gets acquired at a modest premium as it gets converted to NGLS units, and for NGLS this is accretive by 20+% from 2015 onwards. Please see our full report. Note that this is just one possible permutation of a deal, and in this case would be subject to NGLS unitholder approval. Another possible path could involve ETE acquiring a bigger stake in NGLS than what TRGP currently owns.

    What's Ahead: While Targa's response appears to quell the possibility of an imminent deal, they did note that they have been engaged in possible discussions. We have long considered Targa to be a take-out candidate, and if a deal with ETE does not come to fruition, other likely candidates for a transaction involving Targa include Kinder Morgan (KMI/KMP/KMR), OneOk (OKE/OKS), Enterprise (EPD) and MarkWest (MWE) with Kinder being the best alternative from an asset overlap perspective and MWE being the most interesting combination in creating a national gatherer/processor.

  • and what will happen with ngls and even rgp assets plus new lng company

  • Msg 141846 of 141847 at 6/19/2014 6:10:30 PM iv bry board by


    In response to msg 141843 by RossA view thread
    Re: Warren’s Energy Transfer Said Near Deal to Buy Targa Resources
    Targa is the most strategic asset out there in the MLP space due to their position at Mont Belvieu, houston ship channel, Permian and Bakken. Would not be surprised to see other bidders emerge if it is not a knockout bid. I have a hard time believing that the astute management of TRGP/Ngls would sell for ETP shares unless it is a huge bid. EPD probably can't buy them for antitrust reasons but as a holder of PSX I hope they look hard at it...."

  • Msg 141837 of 141846 at 6/19/2014 3:37:31 PM by


    Comments from CNX analysts day - Marcellus and Utica

    Most recent price target increased to $57 by Brean Capital after analysts day. Plan an MLP for midsteam assets, stacked plays, and much more at the link:

    I realize most aren't invested in CNX. Here are some takeaways for anyone interested in Marcellus and Utica:

    In 2014, CNX expects the Marcellus Shale natural gas production to grow 87%, while overall gas production across the company may increase by 30%.
    CNX projects that the Utica Shale has potential resource of ~26 trillion cubic feet equivalent.

  • Reply to

    Everybody tuirn to NGLS and TRGP NOW

    by nymarv10956 Jun 19, 2014 4:14 PM
    moneyonomics moneyonomics Jun 19, 2014 6:13 PM Flag

    sure does suggest 80 value for mwe would be under priced

  • Msg 38765 of 38767 at 6/18/2014 3:29:26 PM iv mlp board by

    fast track
    The following message was updated on 6/18/2014 3:30:13 PM.

    McClendon adds midstream unit

    Luke Johnson

    18 June 2014 17:02 GMT
    Shale pioneer Aubrey McClendon is continuing to pile on to his heap of affiliated unconventionals-focused enterprises with the formation of a midstream company that will service several basins where American Energy Partners has established operations.

    The latest piece to McClendon's sprawling empire, dubbed American Energy – Midstream, was announced just under two weeks after Upstream revealed the plans of American Energy Partners to buy assets in the Appalachian basin from private players East Resources and HG Energy, and in the Permian basin from Enduring Resources.

    American Energy later confirmed the planned purchases, unveiling a price tag of $4.25 billion.

    The midstream company announced on Wednesday will focus primarily in those areas where McClendon-led companies have active upstream activities.

    Its portfolio will consist of midstream assets "strategically focused" on natural gas gathering and processing systems and long-haul pipelines, specifically in the Utica and Marcellus shales, the Woodford shale and the Permian basin.

    Energy & Minerals Group is the lead equity investor in each affiliate.

    McClendon has raised $10 billion in less than a year to fund a suite of companies active in shale plays around the US.

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