Energy Transfer Partners LP Message Board

What is your source for this order booking? The comment is not worth much unless we can verify.

Lots more upside here!
Particularly with overdue upside correction coming.
Strong buy.

This is almost as good as your last comment. Now we are all even for the day.

Why do you waste everyones time with this kind of comment? We can all do that and it says nothing.

How about some numerical analysis which tells us why. That could have possibly helped everyone.

Russia is a mess. They have bigger problems then fuel systems to use Nat Gas.

Russia will not be a factor which has any positive effect on WPRT for years to come. The EU in general is almost as bad. With the exception of Germany, the EU is going nowhere and can't afford to pay for anything with the useless paper they keep printing.

WPRT needs to concentrate on the US and CHINA.

Still say it's a hold for the next year.

Sentiment: Hold

From what public source did you get this information?

I get your point. The guy short sold but, he did it for a reason and it's always worth reading his point of view then we make up our own mind.

He didn't really have much to say that we don't already know.

The market is often focused on the very short term and I have never cared about that. I will say my longer term view is not a high as it was. Too me anyone who buys of sells because of volume, short numbers or moving averages is a speculator not an investor. Money can be made on a company which is dying if the shorts get too out of line and can be forced to cover but, I won't be playing any of those games.

Westport still seems to have products for the long run. The just need to control costs along the way.

I would recommend people do some calculations and try to come up with their own forecast for sales, costs of those sales and then a price based on a reasonable multiple. Then compare that possible return agains other investments.

What other way is there which is not just he said, she said speculation.

Sentiment: Hold

Tell us what low volume means.

There is a range between those bidding and those offering. Where there is overlap sales occur. No matter what the volume, there is a buy for every sell or a sell for every buy depending on your point of view.

When there is a crash there is huge volume, when there is a buyout rumor, there is huge volume. In one case price is up the other it's down. While a volume difference between bidders means one thing and a difference between sellers means another. So it seems price can go up on high volume and it could go down on high volume. These differentials should have he same effects with low trading volumes?

I didn't go to finance school so help me understand what 10 shares traded as opposed to 10 million means.

This has never seemed to make any sense.

Sentiment: Hold

Why do you feel the 12L spark engine is the big ticket?

Looks like a good system but, in my view the big gains are in the conversion of the millions of existing systems with the HPDI injectors. A 12L engine is a few thousand pounds and WPRT will only make about 5 percent of the thing. The only thing holding all this back it the installation of LNG fueling for local fleets and interstate trucking.

I don't see the 12L spark engine being a bigger seller then the other engines.

If I was buying trucks, I would want the HPDI system. Simpler then adding an ignition system and new cylinder head which needs plugs.

Could you add something as to why you see this engine as the big volume engine?

Sentiment: Hold

I just think China will take longer for the fueling build out. The market is very larger for sure but, China is still developing so I don't see the big up side for 2 years or more and there is nothing to stop China from screwing WPRT over at any time once they have it figured out. WPRT patents will mean nothing in China until the country figures some free market things out.

I have half of all my investments in China and have for over 15 years. It is my belief that China holds the key to world economic growth but I see it as a long, long term story. WPRT will do well there but I don't see it in 2013 or 2014. Gains might start end of 2014. Long way off.

I'm not bashing anything here. I am holding WPRT and have been holding China funds (TCWAX) and (FXI) for years.

Not attacking anyone or their views. Just taking numbers and welcome all opposite views.

If you are correct I make a nice return but, I am worried about the cash burn and revenue being down last quarter. I have seen nothing to support your numbers of 30 % and I seen no possibility of 50 % up side in China in 2013. I see it taking a lot longer. The cash burn is troubling.

Sentiment: Hold

No major problems. --- WPRT just reported falling revenues, that's a huge problem.

We have low nat gas prices, increasing supply and still not enough refueling ability for long haul trucking. We are really stuck here. With these low prices on nat gas the HPDI engines conversions should be increasing. The market is still not yet buying into all this yet. As for rail that could be 5 or more years out and the capital spending for the rail market may pull WPRT down even more. We are sitting on a real possible move down if nat gas prices make a move up before these products become main stream.

Nat Gas has a future but WPRT's part in it is not guaranteed.

Holding,,,,, but,,,,, I may be making a big mistake.

I agree with most of you comments but, revenue should have moved up this quarter. They have products already in the market. The only real issue what the potential returns will be from 2015 out if management is on the mark with their that profits start at that time. Can the future profit average out from 2012 - 2016 to cover what most of us can get now in other places. It's starting to look questionable. Nat gas might just be too capital intensive to really take hold in the next 5 years. The products will work but at what price?

Big players like GE, CMI etc could have taken on this task and chose not to. The may have looked at it and decided the margin were not there.

You wasted a post for that insight. Have anything relevant to add.

it's a DOG because,,,,,,,,,,,,?

We need to know why you think it's a dog, that could have been worth reading.

Drew,

Just finished listening to the call. Somehow we heard different things. Remember I too am long Westport so, positive news is in my best interest as well as yours.

I heard a lot about increasing unit sales but that does not go along with shrinking revenue. Not good in my opinion. What I heard in this call and in previous calls is the same I hear in every call. EVERYTHING is almost perfect. I have listen to CEOs and CFOs of other companies which are now out of business talk about how positives things were when they are loosing 1.00 per share. It wasn't long ago they stopped reporting GAP numbers when they were posting loses. All the companies losing money would say how they had profit of .10 a share Pro-forma when they really lost 1.00 and gave the line of, well we had to paint the flag pole but that was just a one time deal. Not saying that is happening with WPRT but, the calls are not addressing the numbers well enough.

I understand it is moving slowly and as a share holder I have a right be disappointed as to the drop in revenue and the fact management is dancing around it. I would feel much better if it seemed management was not trying to sugar coat weak numbers. We can live with the truth. The comment made that the market is today not 5 years from now was not backed up by revenue and that is all the counts.

I know we disagree here but, as we both are holding WPRT we will both make money or lose money above the current market price of 30. Best of luck to you and to me.

Keep posting, you comments are very valuable.

I don't think Demers is really the issue here. While I don't like and don't put much credence into "guidance", published revenue growth is all that matters and it might just be the issue of Nat Gas always being 5 years out. With oil down a bit, the push to the build out of Nat Gas may still be 5 years out which, might as well be 50 years.

We longs are losing ground on WPRT. Treasuries are paying 3 percent. Everything else I have is paying 6 to 8. If we just say 8, thats 2 percent a quarter. If profit is 8 quarters out we need to make up 16 percent and another 8 percent for growth in 2015. The profit might not be there.

While the technology is valid it may just not be profitable as compared to other long term investments which give back 6 percent year after year. Making up lost ground is difficult.

Your comments and point of view are needed but can you make them without the idiot remarks? It doesn't get us anywhere.

Was out so I will need to listen to the replay of the call later today.

It just seems to be very slow out of the gate. Still holding but revenue growth seems to be out there. 2014 is a ways off for no return. By 2015 I will need 55-60 to make up for lost ground. Heavy industry is just so capital intense.

This is very disappointing. I understand rising capital costs hitting earnings but, a drop in revenue is not a good sign. By the time revenue starts to build in 2 years there may not be enough up side to make up for the quarter after quarter of no return.

The market and product look okay but, the costs may be too high to lead to a rising stock price. It's not looking like a double in 7 years and that means the return is lower then the old safe bets. It may be the case of the only people who profit are the management.

I was expecting to see a modest increase in revenue. Not good new at all.

Sure, we have been hearing that for years. The Hunt brothers were going to take over the worlds silver futures and look what happened to them. Yes gold and silver and all commodities will shoot up but, Srprott doesn't know when. The only rational view for gold/silver is to buy what we can afford and be willing to sit tight for 10 plus years. It will take off but not in the short term. With the current decline it's time to increase the allocations but, anyone telling me I am going to get 3000 next year and I should buy on leverage is a nut case.

I hold a 7 percent stake in gold, silver and some platinum which I have no plans to sell. It's just an insurance policy.

The dividend comment was only to show that those old steady companies are pay very well long term. Will WPRT be able to catch up if profits are still 2 years out. Last I looked I didn't see a lot about WPRTs involvement in big rail engines. That won't be easy considering how strong a big company like GE is in rail engines. Like you I do believe Nat Gas has a long solid future. I think the WPRT HPDI duel fuel injectors and controls are a great product which will convert thousands of engines. That's why I am holding. Just would like to see revenue start to overtake capital spending in this year not 2014.

There is still risk here. WPRT must control costs and get to profitability before CMI, GE and others go it alone. WPRT has no ability to tool and build big iron alone, they have no other option but to partner or be just a parts supplier. Not sure if being a Nat gas parts supplier had the 100 dollar a share potential over 10 years.

As for shorts, I never pay attention to that issue. Those plays never last long enough to matter down the road.

Good posts Drew.