I've had them both on ignore for as long as I can remember.
BTW, the word that the bot removed from my post is "m o n i k e r". Why is that a forbidden word?
So we can't even question why posts are being deleted? And yet certain individuals, who I refuse to even type their #$%$, can post as much useless drivel as they please. Well they can have it. I do not need to read this group regularly. And when, on occasion I do post or read, the real, useful posts will be easy to recognize.
So congrats to the village idiots.
Your adjusted basis at time of sale would be decreased by the distributions you received (as well as other factors), So conceptually that is when you "pay taxes on the distributions" - when your capital gain is calculated. If ETP had an operating loss over that period, that would reduce your gain. You apply K1 Line 1 gains in the year they are realized, and apply losses either to future gains, or to the final tally at time of sale.
For the most part, it's really the same rule(s) as if we owned the business. If you've ever owned a business, some of these concept would be familiar ones. You pay taxes on the profits of the business, not on how much $$ you draw out of the company. If the company loses $$ a particular year, no taxes are due, they carry forward and apply to future profits tax-wise, yet you still likely have withdrawn $$ to live on. Distributions to partners are the same way.
Yeah, the prices those days were amazing. I bought some more then, but not to flip, it filled out my position to where I wanted it. I did buy and flip some ETP then, though.
For the average investor, I think HEP is the best choice for MLP, and especially come tax time. The K-1's are straightforward and free of esoteric expenses that the average person could never use. They supply a very helpful "map" of K-1 line items to the tax forms which is a big help if you do your own taxes. It's just a clean, well-run organization. Trading volume is low because most owners are long-term holders. Anything below 30 is a real bargain.
I found a good article last night that explains it quite clearly. Search for "aaii journal making sense of mlp" in your favorite search engine.
Some key points: The hardest thing for most folks to understand is, MLP distributions are not taxed - they simply reduce your cost basis, it's like being reimbursed part of your purchase price. Line 1 losses only can be used to offset future Line 1 income, and only for the same MLP. Interest and dividend income flow directly to your 1040, and unless the MLP had income (Line 1 positive number), those are likely to be the only tax consequences, other than perhaps AMT calculation. Many expenses can not be used by a receiving partner unless they have tax-reportable activity of that type to apply them to. That is expecially true with ETP. The real tax consequences come when you sell the shares. Then you need to accurately calculate your cost basis against the sale price, apply depreciation, and the remainder is taxed as capital gains.
The above-mentioned article explains it quite well. The important thing is, keep all the K-1's so you can do the big math when you sell your shares (units).
First-year for me dealing with a K-1 too. ETP is a Publicly Traded Partnership (PTP) and those have separate, actually simpler, rules for dealing with gains/losses, they are buried within the fine print on various forms. Download instructions for Form 8582 from the IRS website, and read about PTP's on page 13.
ETP had an operating loss last year, your share is shown on line 1 of the supplemental.
My understanding is, losses are carried forward until there is a gain to apply them to. No need to report them until they will be carried forward and used; just keep records (K-1's) until you need them. If someone knows this is not true, please correct me.
Other items under the ETP column on the supplemental page transfer to whatever tax form they apply to: Distributions and Investment Interest Expense to Form 4952, Interest Income to Sched. B, AMT items to Form 6251, Ordinary Dividends to Sched. B, etc.
You don't need to deal with cost basis considerations until you sell. Again, keep all records.
Like all tax stuff, doing it the first time is tedious and difficult, after that it's much easier.
I have HEP and ETP, and HEP sends a nice map along with their K-1 to help make sense of it all. Worth investing in HEP just to get the tax-related package :)
I wasn't saying anything then... I was completely unaware of this situation.
gdx may be right. The only way this deal gets nixed is if WMB holders vote it down in May, and that is unlikely. And so until then we get tossed around by whomever wants to throw the most money at their scenario.
The deal between WIlliams and ET has soured and no longer makes sense. The best outcome for both parties is to negotiate a more reasonable breakup fee, be done with it, and move on. Perhaps we need to wait until an insider on either side foresees a need to cash out part of their position to motivate them to get it done. As it is, this standoff is doing neither party any good.
Barclays, like Needham, are perma-bears on most stocks, and often have the lowest targets prices. That's because they are market makers as well as so-called analysts.
Serviced, yes. But when?
Methinks you listened to a different CC than I did. They acknowledged that MLP were issuing shares, but for ETP/ETE the possibility was a remote one.
You, and hundreds of institutions on the planet will happily wait a year or so for the market to clear while being paid 15% to do it. Shorts talk like the stock would be trading here if there was no risk. But the risk/reward strongly leans to the upside IMO. I already have the position I want, but I will definitely add to it if the market is dumb enough to sell it down. This is a complete gift for those of us moving our portfolios into more income-generating holdings.