Recent

% | $
Quotes you view appear here for quick access.

Caterpillar Inc. Message Board

richoncat 100 posts  |  Last Activity: 21 hours ago Member since: Nov 24, 2006
SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Highest Rated Expand all messages
  • Reply to

    Tax Question on KMP prior to merger

    by baxter12co Feb 17, 2015 11:21 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 19, 2015 5:58 AM Flag

    How many thousands of returns will be wrongly filed because the accounting for an MLP sale is so complicated. I've been doing my own taxes for 45 years and I don't think I've ever encountered a more difficult return. I bet 95% of people facing this KMP to KMI merger won't get it right on their return. How will the IRS ever deal with that many mistakes. Not to say I'm bright but if I hadn't had EPHOLDER's help and read a dozen or so articles on the subject I'd have never gotten through it. I bet most CPA's or professional tax preparers don't understand it either. Even downloading all the info into TurboTax still leaves one manually calculating the adjusted basis from a paper worksheet. My guess is most people will just take the info on their broker's 1099-B drop it into Schedule D, ignore the K-1 and mail it. I'm tempted to do the same, see if the IRS catches it and plead ignorance like so many thousands of others will if they catch it. That would hide years of deferred distributions from the tax man. If caught I wouldn't be alone in jail. Thanks again to UPHOLDER.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Hang em' high

    by artsbest Feb 18, 2015 9:22 AM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 19, 2015 5:36 AM Flag

    Isn't that clever. If you can't argue the facts, attack the person.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question on KMP prior to merger

    by baxter12co Feb 17, 2015 11:21 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 18, 2015 8:31 PM Flag

    Worksheet not workship.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question on KMP prior to merger

    by baxter12co Feb 17, 2015 11:21 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 18, 2015 8:30 PM Flag

    The problem is they're not dividends. They're MLP distributions. You don't claim them like dividends. They're all deferred until you sell the MLP, which we all did at the merger. Now they're deducted from your cost basis, but should be partially offset by the Ordinary Loss on Line 1 of the K-1. You've got to fill out the Sales Workship to account for the the gains and the distributions. Good luck.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Hang em' high

    by artsbest Feb 18, 2015 9:22 AM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 18, 2015 4:29 PM Flag

    A little bitter are we? Variable labor has to be variable. In fact much of Period labor has to be variable as well. They're not going to build tractors if there are no customers for them. What are all those extra people supposed to do, clean floors maybe? No one ever promised anybody lifetime employment. Anybody with any knowledge of CAT's history knows it's one of the most cyclical companies on earth. When times are good, CAT hires like crazy. When times get tough it's out the door. Sorry but that's the reality of business. Do you hire you landscaper to cut your grass in the winter time? Nope. Neither does CAT.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question on KMP prior to merger

    by baxter12co Feb 17, 2015 11:21 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 18, 2015 4:18 PM Flag

    You can down load them directly from the Kinder Morgan website. Do a google search on KMP K-1 you'll get a link to their site. Logon and and you can download the K-1 info from there. I just got finished putting it all into TurboTax. It really is a nightmare. In the K-1 there is a form titled "2014 Sales Worksheet". You need to take the info from your broker's 1099-B and info from the K-1 to fill out the Sales Proceeds and Purchase Amount. Your Basis - Adjustments to Basis - the sum of all Line 1 entries from past K-1's. (Be careful if Line 1 is a negative number, subtracting a negative number is the same as adding the positive value of that number. It sounds like you only had 1 year so it is probably a positive.) Then you need to calculate your Total Gain which is the Total Proceeds - the calculated Basis above. Then you subtract the Ordinary Gain found on the worksheet to figure the Capital Gain. Simple huh? Then you've got to put the Ordinary Gain on Form 4797 Line 10 and 1040 Line 14. The Capital Gain goes on Schedule D Line 10. And you've got to ignore the 1099-B you get from your broker or you'll pay taxes twice on the same income. Piece of cake right? If I had known it was going to be this big of a headache I'd have never bought KMP. KMR or KMI gave you almost the results with no K-1 issues. I bet 90% of the folks that converted from KMP to KMI just let the number on the brokers 1099-B flow right through. If that's the case all the cumulative distributions will never be taxed. There will be thousands of returns submitted like that. There is no way the IRS can audit all those returns. I'm tempted to play stupid and just let the 1099-B stand on it's own. Several years of distributions on a large investment is a lot of taxable income.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • richoncat richoncat Feb 18, 2015 1:29 PM Flag

    Just more of Senator Levin's witch hunt for using the bad tax laws as they are written. This will result in nothing just like Levin's senate hearings resulted in nothing. His point was to make other Senators aware that the law is garbage as written and should be changed by massive tax reform. Apple, Microsoft, GM, Ford, GE all the large multinationals would be foolish not to take advantage of the current law. That would be be similar to me saying you shouldn't take all the deductions coming to you because you are cheating the gov't out of taxes. That's BS, you'll take every deduction coming to you, and maybe a few extras, because it's the law.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 18, 2015 8:08 AM Flag

    The sales summary worksheet provided by Kinder Morgan details the AMT adjustments for you.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 17, 2015 7:14 PM Flag

    OK I think I understand it now. One more question. The Kinder Morgan site discusses calculating the passive losses. It says combine the items from the K-1 Line 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 9a, 10, 11, 12, and 13J. I've only got entries on Line 1 and 13J. Line 1 is negative and Line 13j1 and 13J2 are positive. Do you add the Intangible drilling costs (13J1 and 13J2) to the number in Line 1 reducing the negative number or do you subtract the intangible drilling costs make the Line 1 a larger negative? Thanks for any help you can give me.

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 17, 2015 6:37 PM Flag

    Ah ha. That's where the cumulative passive losses come in. Column (7) Partner Level Adjustments has to include the negative passive losses. That reduces the Total Gain column (8) and the Capital Gain column (10) by $32k. So now it makes sense.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 17, 2015 4:49 PM Flag

    I think I've got the entry stuff in TurboTax figured out but I'd sure like to understand the underlying logic. Here are my numbers from KMP's 2014 Sales Worksheet; Sales Proceeds $157,884 column (4), Purchase Amount $124,677 column (5), Adjustments to tax basis #$%$771 column (6), Partner Level Adjustments $68,906 column (7) {which is (4)-(5)+(6) }, Total Gain $88,978 column (8) {which is (4)-(7), Ordinary Gain $52,207 column (9), Capital Gain $36,771 column (10) {which is (8)-(10) }. So I paid $124,677 for the investment, sold it for $157,884 and received $21,729 in distributions over the three years . So I had actually an investment gain of (4)-(5) $157,884-$124,677= $33,207 plus $21,729 in distributions for a total of $54,936. But for tax purposes I have a ordinary gain of $52,207 plus capital gains of $36,771 for a total of $88,978. Where did the additional $34,042 come from? What am I missing?

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 17, 2015 12:00 PM Flag

    OK figured out how to get it into TurboTax. Question: How can the sum of my ordinary gain + capital gain be larger than the sales proceeds - original costs + all distributions? My ordinary gain plus capital gain is $89k. The proceeds - original costs + all distributions to date is only $55k. Were did the additional $34k come from? I must be missing something.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 17, 2015 10:44 AM Flag

    I agree but I've not been able to get TurboTax to acknowledge the ordinary gains reported on the sales worksheet. It is supposed to end up on form 4797 Part II line 10. But I can't figure out how to get it there.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 16, 2015 9:24 PM Flag

    I think you are more knowledgeable than I on the tax implications of this transaction. Can you tell us how the ordinary income related to the transaction is reported and how does one account for it on his tax return?

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 15, 2015 8:12 PM Flag

    No not at all. Life is good. I just don't like having my investment strategy dictated by a billionaire. We'll know more Tuesday. I hoping the tax whack is not a big as I fear.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 13, 2015 11:09 PM Flag

    I've been using TurboTax Premier for several years because I've got Incentive and non qualified option grants to deal with. But I've also found it to handle K-1's with no issues.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Tax Question

    by cfattore Feb 12, 2015 9:40 PM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 13, 2015 3:01 PM Flag

    You will get K-1 tax information from Kinder Morgan just like in the past. Not only do you have a capital gain, but you'll owe taxes on all the distributions you've received since you bought KMP. Those were pretty much all tax deferred distributions that will now be due. Depending on how long you've held KMP you could be liable for a very large tax bill. I was planning on holding KMP until I died leaving it to my kids with a reset cost basis and no tax liability. I'm now going to have to sell a good portion of my new KMI holding to pay the taxes on the KMP transaction. The cash portion of the transaction covers about half of my anticipated taxes. Thanks Rich Kinder.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Argus downgrade

    by millmgr48 Feb 3, 2015 10:59 AM
    richoncat richoncat Feb 3, 2015 11:57 AM Flag

    Argus Research Group

    Argus Research Company was founded in 1934 by economist Harold Dorsey, and was one of the first firms to provide systematic, independent research and analysis on U.S. equities to the professional market. Using a top-down methodology, the Argus staff of analysts and its economist has continued to offer forecasts and ratings on the U.S. economy, and objective investment research analyzing hundreds of leading blue chip companies.

    In response to client requests, Argus Investors' Counsel, (AIC), a money management division was incorporated in 1960. AIC is registered with the Securities and Exchange Commission as an investment advisor. AIC's primary product offering is a large-cap domestic equity product that uses a bottom-up stock selection process. The Argus investment philosophy rests on the belief that investment returns from the stock market will continue to reflect the ongoing long-term expansion of the American economy.

    In 1976 Argus acquired Vickers Stock Research, which tracks stock holdings data including both Insider Holdings and Institutional Holdings. The Insider Holdings Database includes corporate officers, directors and shareholders of 5% or more of outstanding shares in a corporation. This data is derived from SEC filings. The Institutional Holdings Database includes large money managers, insurance companies, banks, U.S. and non-U.S. funds.

    Argus Vickers American Equity Research (AVA), located in London, was incorporated in August of 1993. AVA produces The Owners service, a comprehensive and timely ownership data base of small to mid-cap U.K. stocks.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Reply to

    Sales to Users down 12%

    by richoncat Jan 26, 2015 10:17 AM
    richoncat richoncat Jan 26, 2015 10:31 AM Flag

    ... less than $50. Tomorrow's earning call will be interesting.

    Sentiment: Hold

  • Worldwide Sales to Users for rolling three month period ending December down 12%. Ouch. That's with the Oil and Gas sector up 25%. You know that can't last with oil

    Sentiment: Hold

CAT
83.28-1.06(-1.26%)Apr 17 4:01 PMEDT