dailybread I think both are a sin. I am sure about homosexual marriage or lifestyle being a sin just as a man lusting in his heart after a women he may see much less committing adultery or intercourse outside of marriage. While I think abortion is wrong and sin I can not point to verses in the NT that supports that belief and I can find a verse or two in the OT that seems to say a life in the womb is not the same as the life of the mother. My reason for "thinking" abortion wrong is based on life being the question. Clearly life is found in the womb and if it is allowed to go to term then it will be human life that is born. Thus I believe that the catholic church has it correct (for once) in that all life is not to be killed. I view the act of abortion the same as I view capital punishment or taking the life of a old person would be. I understand that there is a difference of opinion on capital punishment so I extend grace to those who believe it is not a sin to be involved in the taking of a life as a judge or jury. I could not do either nor would I support abortion. Helping a person to die painlessly and thus perhaps hurry their death is another "personal" opinion issue among Christians.I would not do that to bring about a faster death but using the same drug to ease pain I do not have a problem with that. It is the reason for the drug to be given not the use of the drug. Sorry for the long answer but I wanted to be as clear as I can to answer your question.
While I believe it is sin to be a homosexual and to marry I do not see that sin as any different than the sin of love of money, greed, selfishness or others. The county clerk would be like a Christian working in a food store who would refuse to sell food to overweight folks because it is a sin. If she feels she has to not be a part of that sin she should quite her job. I would NEVER sell beer, whine or booze no matter how much money it would bring me. But I know it is legal and others are OK doing it
vpsqdrn I hope you find this day of Thanksgiving one that find much to Thank God for in your life, your families life and friends. I have read all your responses to my post. Thank you for responding. I find that we disagree on a lot of things and I am sure we agree on a lot as well but on your statement that mixing politics and "ideologue" I must point out you did exactly that in your response to Lake on slavery. I find nothing in the NT that forbids slavery but it is clearly a political issue which you infer a "ideologue" based on not politics but your faith. My faith and understanding of the NT drives everything in my life including where I stand on political issues. I know of no other way to do this and frankly can not see how you can have a "Christian" life apart from your "political life". I am sure you want a political answer different from the one we have now on abortion do you not? How about homosexual life style? So I extend it to Capital Punishment and taking in refugees who need help. If I vote for someone who stands against what I believe is the principles of my Christian faith it would only be because the other person is a worse offender.I agree with you on our history of accepting Muslims and others into our country. My point was that 30 Governors all GOP came out against the Syrian refugees for political reason and in so doing failed to show their Christian teaching. Their outright and whole rejection of the very idea shows it is political. Someone who runs as a "Christian" should indeed bring that faith into his political decision or he or she is hypocrite. The Kingdom of God of which you and I are part of does not have borders or Nationalities of this world that interferes with keeping God's commands. The word does indeed teach to help those who need help. Politics says we have laws and borders and Nationalities that are more important than helping others. You can not have one way for politics and one for God. Lake can not us. Love unites.
grump I must admit I was surprised at your post to Lake when you admitted that you do not see Jesus as a Good Guy God. Given who you worship the rest of your post one scripture is just as wrong as who you see Jesus as being. He truly is not your Lord and that is sad. But as long as you have breath you have a chance to repent and accept salvation from a very Good Guy God. He died for you who have you died for?
As to your opinion of what I should do with my money it is just that your opinion and last time I checked you are not God. My topic which again you never addressed is not about giving money but about how 30 GOP governers seem to think alike on the Syrian question and how in so doing go against the teachings of Jesus and yet continue to get the support of Christian voters in their state. That once again grump is the topic.
The same topic you have not EVER address. Unless you do do not expect any further reply for me on this topic.
Ship raised their dividend a mere one cent but given the full release of their quarter report it seems to say that Ship is a solid 10% dividend payer and that the deal with FRO/FRO2012 was a plus to them. They are showing very positive results from the proceeds they are getting from FRO this quarter. They are paying out in dividends pretty close to their full profit for the quarter of .49 Their available cash flow is way above that amount and checking their LT charters and amount owed on them they are looking fairly safe in that area as well. Clearly Mr. F has built an impressive empire and seems to move in a way that if he misses in one area he covers it in another. Sea Drill is his and they have LT charters through Ship out some 5 years of steady income. For safer income Ship may be the better place to go than FRO as it will be less up and down in share price and nice 10% dividend as well. The quarter release look pretty good for the LT to me anyone see things differently?
scs I am curios do you agree with Lake that all well with our current immigration policy? If not what do you want to see the NEW immigration policy look like?
grump your record is stuck are you so mentally challenged that you do not realize this? I can only suppose that you do not realize that the State Dept has not allowed anyone you included to take in Syrian refuges although I have pointed this out to you 3 times. Just how dumb are you?
Have you gave money to any charity to help them? I have but since you posted all the money you made off your fast turn around in FRO you surely could afford to give some of that to help others so pony up.
Unless you pick the needle up off your record your going to wear a hole in it btw. So wake up I have address three times your Yaa Yaa Bllaa Blaa so once again your a total waste of time. I am sure you buddy Lake is impressed with your repeating the same dumb thing over and over again but I doubt the rest of the board is so stupid as not to understand that State Dept and Homeland security will determined the policy when ever it happens. Those 30 Governors were merely being good GOP lap dogs to the party and seeking the scared and hate vote that is found in the GOP voters. They can talk all they want but if the US Gov. decides to send refuges to Texas or any GOP state I can promise you they will come into that state. Even our bending over backward to the extreme right understands who is in charge of the refugee question and it is not a Governor.
vpsqdrn saw this post after I replied to the first so I will reply to this as well. You say God "expects" I say God commands and we either obey or disobey out of fee will. We do not have the choice to choose not to follow what He expects of us and not be in sin. Do you agree or disagree with that. PLease show me where you think wealth re distribution is not condoned by God? Widows are to taken care of Read 1 Tim 5: 3-16
Read 1 Tim 6: 17-19 and James 1: 9-10, James 5:1-6 These verses are concerning the rich.
I agree with you that our giving should be in love not just to obey the Law of Christ. The rich man realized to late that his life had been of selfishness and total neglect of others well being and was asking only for a warning to be sent to his family to avoid his fate. Jesus spent his entire teaching life pointing out the difference between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of the world.
They have always been and always will be in conflict until Jesus comes again. You seem to think that Christian should not be taught how to live and conduct themselves in a secular world. We are to be the light upon the hill into that world and that light should shine Jesus teaching into that world. You are no doubt against Homosexual marriage and abortion are you not? Is that not how you want and demand that a secular world respond to the teachings of the NT? You want to force the world to accept your Kingdom of God views.
What I pointed out was what Christians should do to follow Jesus. I do not expect those of the world to see Syrian or Muslim's as loved by God and to be treated as neighbors. You want to pass a law to force the world to not practice Homosexual marriage do you not? To love your enemies does indeed put Christian behavior into a secular world. Go INTO ALL THE WORLD is a command to bring the Gospel and its teaching into the Secular world and their issues. Do you think your neighbor is only Christians? Are you to love only Christians?
vpsqdrn since you choose to only be critical without dealing in any specifics where you find fault I can not respond to generalize opinion of my beliefs. Does Jesus not teach to love and care for your neighbor? Is not the Syrian refuges within the term your neighbor as meant by Jesus? Does one who claims to be a Christian and seek out Christian votes have the right to refuse to help his neighbor and still claim to be following Jesus. This is one of the TWO Great Commands according to Jesus. It is not somewhere down in the line of thing you may want to consider doing or if you are so moved. But it follows Love the Lord Your God Above all others with all you heart and soul AND Love your neighbor as yourself.
Now does ignoring that COMMAND from the savior make sense to you? That is the question. Not how much fault you find in my post but how much fault you find in disobeying a Command from Jesus and continue to call Him Lord.
Now vpsqdrn if you disagree with my understanding of who our neighbor is and Jesus command to love them and how a Christian is suppose to act upon this command please point out my error. Just what is your "Mix" of Christianity? Syrians of Muslim faith are not Loved by God? Jesus did not die for them? They are not our neighbors? They are accepted from the Command. Please explain your "Mix" of Christianity I would love to see where your back door is in escaping the Command of Jesus. PLease give me a reply.
dannyronquille you have correctly pointed out Old Testiment Law. That is the law that the Jews lived by and frankly the ones that still hold to the Law should be following that Law today. However that is exactly the Law and teaching that Jesus ended. His statement BUT I SAY against an eye for eye was a clear proclamation
that the law was done. I have indeed killed many Christians and non Christians and except for grace would be doomed as you say. You danny are entitled to your free will to have faith that there is no God. You are not however entitled to post error as facts without being set right. Your life may of been a lot better, more kind and more productive for the benefit of mankind than mine was but we are not saved by our works but by Grace. That Grace remains open to you as long as you breath danny regardless of how much blood you have on your hands. Catholic Priest visited and ministered to Nazi murders after the war because they understood that Grace was God's will for even Nazi murders. To take life or adultery or greed or any other sin can be forgiven and will be if the Grace of forgiveness is accepted. That is the Good News the forgiveness is already in place all that is needed is accepting it in the person of Jesus Christ. You can choose not to believe or believe danny that God has given you free will to choose. But I hope you do on better facts than your post shows danny as it is the most important decision you will ever consider not only for your sake but of your children if you have any. Do your do diligence and seek out facts real facts just as you do on FRO or any investment. Trust what you discover, read and compare do so with a need to make the right decision.
dakine I will respond to you as you are not one to try to put words in mouth or misapply the scriptures.
You are 100% correct that the OT law was done away with or completed, fulfilled with the teachings of Jesus and his death on the cross. All of Christian dome knows this as the Jewish rituals and food laws and the law of the Sabbath and all the other things of the law are not followed by Christian Churches today. Granted some are repeated or maintained in the teaching of Jesus and those are to be practiced and are practiced.
The church however is "split" on how it views Capital punishment. Grump points out the Roman verse which is the only verse I know of that is used as support to be found in the NT.Jesus was the victim of CP as was Paul, Peter, James and thousands of other believers. NONE BY BELIEVERS should be noted. Also NONE Shows ANY believer ever ending the life of one that God sent his son to save. When a Christian provides death to a non believer that life and ANY chance of salvation is taken from them. I have NEVER as was inferred by grump that sins or bad behavior or law breaking should go unpunished. It is not the punishment that is in question but the sentence involved. Church discipline is always for the salvation of the one caught in sin and to be done in love and acts which under the OT law were punishable by death are not punished by death but by forgiveness. I understand that there is disagreement within those that Claim Jesus as Lord over capital punishment as there is in a lot of other things of the Christian life. I forgiven and love my brothers and sisters who believe that the Roman verse OK's CP but try to let them see that to me it is the willful taking of life
using the law. Just as Paul was executed under Roman Law. Was that murder or killing? Is abortion legal under Law murder or killing and is there a difference? Jesus teachings of the BUT I SAY stand like a brick wall to believers on CP. BUT I SAY is very clear a change in law
grump I do not respond to your so called biblical comments any longer due to the fact that you are a non believer that does not claim Jesus as His Lord. If you were a believer filled with the Holy Spirit and led by Him to understand the wisdom of what He revealed through what we call the NT then you would have a right to your understanding. You as one who does not have Jesus as Lord do not have the infilling of the Holy Spirit and there is simply no way that such a person can ever understand the things of the Spirit of God.
Go preach to those who will listen to your ideas about the NT knowing you are one who denies the Lordship of Christ. I doubt any Christian on this board would ask Lake to explain things of Jesus to them nor should they embrace your self declared wisdom and knowledge. They should know that only by the Holy Spirit is the Scriptures revealed and only by the power of the Holy Spirit does wisdom and knowledge from God come.
You sir are one who denies that Jesus is your Lord so what can you know about the things of the Spirit.
I doubt even those right wing Christians on this board will follow the Spiritual advise of a man who denies that Jesus is Lord. If they do then a "type" of anti Christ has deceived them.
Lake glad you admitted you were wrong too bad we didn't have a beer bet on it since unlike your bet with grump I would pay up when proved wrong which I was not.
Exactly which church are you talking about Lake? That is your first mistake you call the name church as if there was one belief system which history and church history proves you WRONG again. Exactly what about the blood and body of Jesus Christ did science prove or disproved that caused a difference in doctrine over that matter? Do you even realize that issue? What science proved or disproved that you could not eat meat or to marry or not to marry? What great man of science proved or disproved that eternal security is a fact or if one can fall from grace? None of those key Christian Doctrines of which debate continues today has been changed by science or culture so again Lake you show your lack of understanding the Christian dogma revealed by scripture and debated by men. Why did some Christians believe in a Limbo and other not and now it is gone? What is the One Christian doctrine on babies once born and how does that differ from a baby in the womb? Where is science and culture in those issues Lake. Your clueless so perhaps you better stay with a subject you seem to have some knowledge of which the board thinks is NOTHING.
But I think you have some understanding of solar power and global warming so maybe those are your area's.
I do not think I have ever see you post anything on FRO which is strange given this is FRO stock board but maybe you have no knowledge of the shipping business or little just as you clearly have little and mostly wrong about Christianity. The church as you call it has killed but the church also has not killed since there is no ONE church. Of course that is wrong but do you even know why that is wrong? Oh how you love to generalize and name call and claim that you know more about Christian doctrines than those of the "church" do. What a silly man you are.
grump the only losser here is you. You refuse to answer any on topic question I ask. Then you run and hide in an area you do not even believe in. You quote scripture but never once have you been able to say that Jesus Christ is your Lord. For anyone who knows scripture the meaning of that is clear.
The authority of the Gov. to yield the sword is authority of Rome who also had authority to conduct death games in the arena for enjoyment. A Christian is not the Gov. They are to pray for them, obey them as much as they can and if they can not suffer the penaity in peacefulness as Paul and Peter to Rome.
Jesus said some may say an eye for an eye (which is OT law) BUT I say love your enemies. That is about as clear a statement against OT law of Capital Punishment as you can get. Forgiveness, turning the other check, giving the thief more than they even take. Jesus taught all this on sermon on the mt.
To be called a religious fraud by you who is a nonbeliever is nothing that impresses or worries me. God knows my faults and sins of which I have already admitted on here. You on the hand will not claim the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord so further discussion with the likes of you is as Paul said to be avoided. Maybe Lake is impressed by your ways of avoidance but at least he is honest in his disbelief something you hide or try to dodge.
Lake once again you speak about Christian without being one and clearly without knowing any history of the Christian faith. Science does change that is why Darwin Theory is not the FACT you seem to think it is amoung those who believe in evolution except of course for you. So yes indeed science does change and to change you must admit your wrong or at least there is a better or more correct way to look at things or that what you once believed is no longer possible to believe any more. Science and the Christian Faith have both gone through such changes. They are lots of Christian doctrines that have been abandoned or changed over the years while you and a lot of Christians do not invest enough care or energy to know these facts and what the doctrines were once and are no more they do exist. You can find them for yourself if you like or ask me to tell you some if your ego will bare admitting you do not know them.
I do know how badly you want to be correct in the Facts you post as you have proved in the past so you now have a chance to CHANGE and admit that you misspoke that "my kind" (what a poor choice of words sounds like a #$%$ type choice doesn't it) never change their minds. I pray all the time to show me where I am wrong so I can gain new insight. One who is never wrong can not grow in any endeavor now can they lake?
To be smug and self assured is to condemn one's self to at best remaining in the past.
Just who is "MY KIND" Lake? You do understand that they are hundreds of different denominations within Christian faith and each one believes different in one or more doctrines even though they are all based on understanding of the bible. But again you are so narrow minded and unchangeable in how you view Christian you lump all into "MY KIND" just as a racist does so with people of color. You really would make a great right winger with that smug superior mind set of yours. You are "their kind" in that matter lol.
rami how lovely to see your gloom return to the board. The only thing I have seen you do is miss the chance to make money off of FRO as it goes up. You do not claim to be making it by shorting FRO so I can only assume that you are only a person of loss chances. Buy it now is my advise still room to make a lot of money.
grump do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord? If not what do you know about the scriptures since you have not the Holy Spirit inside you to reveal them to you.
You are wrong in all other points as well. The Governors are just that Governors I am not. If I was a Governor I would do what the President is doing and open up our borders to them. Until that happens the Governors are merely doing what your doing running their mouth just to try to fool the people who vote for them and in your case to try to convince the board that I am the same as an elected Gov. which I doubt even this board is stupid enough to believe. The State Dept. alone is vetting and until they decide upon a procedure neither I or any Governor who wants to take Syrians can not. It is a matter of law which you totally disregard as I have point out before yet you continue to Yap away ignoring the FACT again as you always do.
For the Governors it is merely a Party Line thing to be against what the President is for and for you just an attempt to disagree with me when in Fact the GOP have done what I said they have done and they do claim to be family values and or Christian or both and Christian seem to buy into those anti Jesus actions.
You better consult your spirit guide before you try to use the scriptures again you failed terrible at that attempt and Your Fact problem that no Gov. or individual citizen can at this time take any Syrian in their state or home.
I have given money to help them where they are and until they are here and available that is all any Christian can do Legally. Facts which you have avoided addressing totally as have any other Christian on this board that is anti Syrian refugee even coming into the country much less taking in their home.
Mr. BS I go after you often enough for you post but this one I think the only fault I find in it is that many times Muslim's have denounced acts of terrorism. It is simply not true that this does not happen. But that aside the article does make some very good points. Gun owners are fast to deny that ALL gun owners are to blame when some nut job shoots up a school or where ever they choose to go GUN NUTS. Again White males are there too the huge % of gun nut terrorist in America. Do gun owners ever feel like owing an apology when a legit Gun owner goes nuts? Nope and in fact they cry it was not the Gun what we need is more guns to stop this. Maybe if that is true what we need is More Muslim's not less? Let the Syrians come into the country to lessen the % of Muslim's who are terrorist and those who are not. If it is not the gun we should fear why do we fear the Muslim instead of the terrorist? If having more guns not less is safer then why does that logic not prove correct when it comes to Muslim's? Especially if we VET both gun owners and Muslim's? Gun owners simply do not feel there is any connection at all between gun and act of terrorism.
But they do seem to feel the connection between Muslim and terrorist. Millions of guns are owned and never even fire much less kill and Million of Muslim's never practice or agree with terrorism. If a gun is a danger of falling in the wrong hands which clearly they do. Gun owners never call this treat worth any correction in gun ownership. But let Syrian's be considered to be brought into the USA and outrage is the results. Those same GOP governors against this are not for ANY gun adjustments are they? You just got me wondering what strange logic we can come up with.
lake do you ever tire of being wrong? It takes hundred of thousand of years to evolve if you believe in such a thing and years to breed a new type of dog or horse or cow or human for that matter. It sort of depends on what you want to end up with does it not? Now let us look at mankind's history. We have three typs at least NOW but being science they reserve the right to be wrong and change their facts. Neanderthal man, African Man and ASian man. Science shows us what Neanderthal man looked like. He "started" in Europe and moved West into area of Middle east and perhaps Africa (eastern) where he breeded up with African man.
They ended with a mix breed. Neanderthal man died out in Europe and went NO further than maybe a contact with Asian man (science debating that) but cleary the breed of N man and Af man did reach Asia and breed with Asian man. Your little chimp never was In Europe so it could not be the daddy of Nea man must of been some other type of ape who with less than 98.7% DNA produced Nea man hey lake?? Breeded man not evolved spread humanity to the rest of the world so says science. Asian and African and African and Nea mixed went East with their breeding as science shows in their little displays. So tell me lake where did the Norsemen come from? Or those on what today is England and Ireland? Who breed them into life?
Or did they evolve from yet another ape unknown yet in England? Perhaps mankind started out in the middle east not Europe or Africa? Then as sin corrupted the world those sinful creatures went to Europe and Africa and due to breeding not evolution became the Nea man and the African man? Impossible? Well if you believe the bible we see where Angles came down and breed with women and produced WHAT? This you reject as possible yet you have no problem seeing several apes turning from ape to man without the "missing link" being found and in fact 3 not one apes and no Missing links in Europe, Asia or Africa. You have faith lake lol.
Grump I just love it when you copy the Devil when he was Tempting Christ and try o make the word fit your twisted position. The new testament is full of scripture that points out sin of others. Why do you think that all these right wing Christian are against abortion and Homosexual marriage? Do you tell them to cast not the first stone? Casting a stone was the death sentence glad that you understand Jesus is against Capital Punishment but pointing out that GOP governors are not very loving or caring about their neighbor is not a death sentence on them merely pointing out how UNCHRISTIAN a position they have taken and how those that agree with them and believe themselves to be Christian should indeed read ALL of Jesus teaching and see where loving your enemies, turning the other cheek and Love your neighbor as yourself are His teaching.
He never mentioned abortion nor Homosexual marriage by the way.
You love to try to point out what I admit too I AM Indeed a SINNER and ONLY by the Blood of JESUS and the GRACE can I be forgiven. If you are right grump (which you are not) then NO Christian would have the right to say a word about abortion or Homosexual life style. Paul, Peter and James all sinners themselves did did all point out right and wrong behavior to Christians. They also told the Church to hold their members accountable for teaching and life style. So once again like the devil you quote scripture only trying to mislead others and lie about its meaning.
Now tell me grump before you try to change the subject of this post. Did not Paul, Peter and James ALL teach right and wrong behavior and how to live among the world? Where they not sinners doing this?
Paul said he was least of the least and also first among sinners and his teachings are full of reproof to how to live the life and about he needing grace and correction.
The scriptures rebuke you grump.