Lake reread your own post and see if it looks like it was posted by a man My idea of how humans should treat each other is much better than anything written years ago. You are a hypocrite without belonging to anything as you say how much you want to treat your fellow man so well but spew hate and lies out when you post.
You say all you "run" into who say they believe in the bible are liars? Based on what? You can believe in something and not live by it. You are a perfect example of that. You talk about how much care about humanity then you blast on any and all who dare to disagree with you. You love to misapply verses from the bible a book you do not believe in then try to force your idea of what the verse means on others.
Even the bible says "even the demons believe" so believing in God and obeying is not the same thing at all.
The bible says also that all sin and no one can save themselves by being "good".
Again Lake you are an archer with an empty quiver. You post the same old lies and hate nothing ever new out of you anymore your mind is closed and trust me from your post you show only humanity and good will to those who agree with you and damnation to all who do not. You have no mercy, compassion or grace for them from your own post you condemn yourself to one who does NOT talk or post like one who believes humans should treat each with any of those traits. Why would an evolutionist such as you preach anything but survival of fittest to advance the human race? You believe on way and claim to want to extends treating those who are weak or lame kindly? Some evolutionist you are lol.
Grump Wow we agree let me go outside and check if the sky is falling.
Good news looks like it is normal. RR was like Obama in over his head in many subjects the trickle down eco being the worst which its main man ended up calling it voodoo eco. Today it is renamed as low taxes and cut everything else voodoo.
RR did outspend the USSR in defense and bankrupted them but at a real bullet war all he ever won was Grenada. He was seeing a commie behind ever bush in S. America and didn't mind destroying the US Const. to fight it. He had loyal men around him who either took the sword for their man or their man didn't have a clue what they were doing. A coke head like Charlie Wilson was even able to conduct a war without RR knowing about the how of it. He put the mighty MO back in service at a huge cost then decommissioned it at a huge cost. He went into Leb. and got over 260 people killed (compare that to Benghazi) and then turned tail and ran.
every time he held a press conference the day there would be one to "correct misstatements" he had made and been caught at. He was a successful actor who could smile and look in the camera and give a speech someone else wrote.
He did not have even the experience of a community organizer nor did GH or GW Bush so all had no understanding of how the 47% of American's lived.
RR would of NEVER shut down the Gov or even thought of a default on debt so the tea party would not vote for him on that we do agree.
Lake big deal so we both agree that what we each believe has zero meaning to the other. You have said this a hundred or more times on this board are you so unsure of your own position that you have to repeat and repeat and repeat what you do not believe? For one who does believe in a God who by very nature would be perfect and correct in all things you sure do act like you are a God in what you believe in.
Go tell the fruit fly to mutate or evolve if you have such faith so far scientist have tried and failed hundreds of time thus making Darwin's theory a failure. But you believe it hard enough and command the fruit fly and who knows maybe you will succeed where others have failed.
Grump solar power and wind both are given tax breaks. I see why as they want to move folks toward both of those sources of energy but like most tax breaks it benefits the better off and does nothing for those who do not own their own homes or who can not afford to buy even at a tax break price.
I am surprised that you being all for give away to the rich are not 100% behind this since you could save some bucks on it but I guess you live where the sun rarely shines lol. Should be a lot of wind up your way I hope your neighbors use it to fuel their homes :P
Mr. Grump once again invents a falsehood into his post I see and it is not aimed at me wow. Take heart Dakine we who have read your post know you have NEVER said that ALL solar is equal as Grump tries to make his post imply. He just like to disagree and make up lies about those he disagrees with that gets him off. He must assume others are pure ignorant not to have read other post or he really wants to insult those he debates by lying about what you said or putting words down for you that you never said. Only a total idiot would see that some areas are better for wind and solar than others and urban areas are only one of them.
But Grump wants all to believe you are so dense that you do not know that. He is the idiot for thinking his way of posting accomplishes anything. Only his brother gutless right wing buddies believe him or let him get away with it because they are members of the gutless crowd of do not point a flaw about a fellow right winger ever. I believe the day will come when wind and solar will be a part of even the urban areas not a whole part but a big enough part to make a difference. The Southern parts of the US are more solar appealing now and wind also has its "hots" spots. But the day is coming given the improvements we have made in computers and other areas of science solar and wind will have their day and maybe fusion even but not yet.
lester your guess or model is as good as any others but I see Two things down the road and soon as FRO price setter. One rates & two how Mr. F settles up the debt issue. If FRO goes above 2 and I think it will before year end then only rates going down again would undo it. Depending on how much above 2 it moves your 1.85-1.93 could be bottom again or even a bit lower. But I think it goes to 3 before 1.50 again.
Lake ultimately God allows or causes all things that is a given. He allowed or caused GW Bush & Obama to be President and expects all who believe in him to honor who ever is in that office. I have failed at that on more than one time but that does not make me right I am WRONG not God. But as to where mutations come from or why or how again the earth and life on it was at one time perfect then sin entered the picture and all that changed. A corrupted earth produces a lot of things now that was not designed on earth when created. That is my answer you I am sure do not buy it. Fair enough but I do not buy your belief and trust and faith in evolution so we have a debatable situation. BTW I have never said that things do not change or evolve as God has designed our faith to change and evolve to a more mature faith so some things about the idea of evaluations I accept. My problem is I can not believe nothing mixes with nothing and equals something. That to me is a bigger fairy tell than the one you see in God. Order controls the universe as science proves over and over again. To have such order you must also believe Order evolved as well as life or Order was always and then came life which was from nothing and also by the followed Order.
What are the odds of that?
rami while they may be some in at those prices I think most are in at 3 or below because most have been averaging down.
The stock market just did a bump in oil stocks and fro got thrown under the train with it to some degree and folks also sold fearing it was going BK as you believed. Even today I would tell you to buy FRO.
Not a sure thing or even a great gamble like it was when down below 1.50 but still a very good one.
Mr. F is the Warren Buffet of shipping and he is with FRO. That is enough for me.
Lake since you do not accept the bible as the truth then you refuse to debate with that as even a possibility. Thus you demand your debates on solely your own terms and conditions. If you think EBOLA is a new life form instead of a mutation or "evolution" then where is your proof? You believe in evolution but not in viruses? Cancer is merely a mutation of a healthy cell not a new life form. You don't even understand your own beliefs it seems.
Now for those who do believe in God our debate area would be that the world is corrupted by sin. Just as the bible tells us. You can reject that theory but we can accept it you do not get to make the rules that would make you a God to yourself lol. The bible describes the wonder of the earth before sin and we live in it after sin. God has in the past sent death to those He choose. You may not like or think that alone makes Him a God who does not love but again He is God you are a not. Is EBOLA from God or the Devil?
Or is it in fact a mere mutation caused by a sinful world? Two out of three point to work of the Devil and I go by odds so I say the Devil is ultimately the villain here.
Lake you get to say all your ideas on things without God but we who believe have an equal right to say what we believe and why we do. Not all who believe in God will see things the same way either just as all evolutionists do not agree.
One thing about EBOLA is true. Capitalist Medical profession is not the best way to deal with such a situation. Clearly the CDC and the Hospital in Dallas dropped the ball. The hospital was not expecting
to deal with the situation and once they had it they continued to do business as usual which was insane.
To allow 72 staff people to contact the first person was nuts. The number of nurses should of limited to 12hr duty two a day with relief for days off. Overtime should not of been considered at all. Exposure should of been the main concern it was not.
scs I do not claim to know how high or how fast FRO will go in the future but I do think we have seen the bottom and I believe with the rates once again moving up above break even it will give them more cash flow to buy back more bonds and less problem with covering the debt coming due soon. I believe they will get past with little or no great falling off of the stock (again we have seen the lows)
Mr. F I think will keep in under control and in house. Once that problem is behind FRO then only the glut in tankers, demand for future and world geo political explosions will drive FRO. While I can agree with you selling out and taking profit with a mind to buy in at a latter dip as I have done in the past I would not look for too much giving back once the debt issue is gone. This time next year FRO could be 3-5 bucks a share it will not be BK or near worthless.
If the deal to take care of debt is not a huge dilution of stock but yet another loan I expect to see a 10% or more pop in the stock just for solving the problem.
Its still a #$%$ shoot but I feel sorry for anyone who has followed rani advise to sell. He should of been buying not selling a buy at 1.25 and selling today (which I would not do) would bring a profit of 34 cents in less than a month or over about 27% gain. He was told by us both to buy not sell but he never listens. Your cost basis is down thanks to the low price and that is how you make money or at least cut your losses lol.
dakine rates up again today 33,000 for VLCCF and 36,000 for Suez.
Most drillers have contracts for wells and it takes a while to drill a well especially those in N. Dak. so I doubt that drilling has actually been impacted yet and if oil stays above 75 I doubt it will except for small co. who will go BK unless they are hedged. If oil drops below 70 and looks like it is staying there (watch the futures action) then drilling would slow down a lot. Many Co would put drilling on reduced rate if not stopped.
Thus oil supply would drop. The reaction in stock prices to most E&P stocks to the fall from 100 to 85 has been way overdone and helped by MM and I doubt oil will go much below 80. Russia is key.
I see some upward movement today on beat down E&P stocks even when market down and oil down showing that the price was driven way below value. Even 75 dollar oil will make most a profit just make them drill better and smarter. Most are hedge and cash flow will not be effected that much for a while anyway.
For FRO only a matter of time before we see 2 bucks a share on it is my guess as SFL was up today and FRO and most of the other Mr. F stocks. Smart money on Mr. F I still believe.
Rates up again today and the price of oil down again. At some point tankers will be looked at to be storage vessels for cheap oil. The dropping of the price of oil and the rise in rates can not in reality be related as one happens NOW (price of oil drops) But demand and use for oil (tanker shipments) does not happen now.
The price of rates have moved up and down a lot in the last 6 months. The amount of tankers available has not changed to keep pace with the rates. No logic in that in supply and demand of tankers. No logic as to the supply and demand of oil for that matter (at least in the past). So what caused it? International events perhaps and the expected effect on shipment of oil would be my best guess.
One reason for lower oil prices is supply over demand or "expected demand on expected downturn in China and EU eco" Smoke and mirrors which may or may not work out as "expected". Saudi increased production why? When will they cut to hold the price of oil? Look at futures prices out 6 months or more.
Now more in line with the current price of oil than it was a month ago.
Lots of unknowns out there but one thing for sure if the rates stay up FRO will do better in Cash flow and available cash flow and will have more appeal to lenders if Mr. F does not just write the check. Russia oil does not ship by tankers to EU All other sources will have to. Russia is wild card in the oil deck.
Just how crazy is Putin? World events and politics so much effect the price of oil the cost of tanker shipment and ultimately FRO. Not talking about the US elections but that too if the tea party runs the GOP could spell yet another shut down and craziness for the US eco.
It weird out there but FRO is a good gamble still.
VLCCF 30,000 Suez 35,000 That is cash flow and profit as long as it last Rani may think that rates do not effect share price but the drop in rates is what caused FRO to fall in share price to were it is today and "if" the rates hold were they are today FRO will be in the black. More reason for Mr. F to put more money into his plan of which FRO seems to be a part of the big picture. Given the fall in oil prices over the last two weeks to see FRO near 1.40 is amazing and during those same two weeks the rates have been going up.
Rani better buy in before it is too late.
dakine oil is right at the top of the most played of commodities and oil prices often reflex that play than reality of supply and demand. OPEC said they were increasing oil production and oil started to head down. That is going on while Russia sanctions are getting tighter and could really go nuts if Russia goes nuts. ISIS also controls oil fields in Iraq as well and you know God help anyone that gets caught buying that oil.
All that to say that oil prices should be "jumpy" now but instead they are tracking down.
I think once the money barons of oil play have made their filthy lucre off this play down you will a rise in oil prices back above 90 bucks. Unfortunely it takes oil stocks longer to recover on a move up than it does to take them down as oil goes down.
Do you own any MHR? AXAS has taken a beating lately and at today price is a sure 25% profit or more in a year IMHO. If oil stays where it is today I think both MHR and AXAS will move back up that much given their increased production and well success and MHR is in NG not oil which this winter will decide the fate of NG prices for a while.
All good its only money.
scs we rarely agree but on FRO it seems we are both putting our money where our mouths have been. rami on the other hand did not buy when FRO was down to the 1.20 level and missed out on over a 20% gain as of today. He continues to believe that FRO will crash and burn. So be it but I like you think Mr. F is not going to crash and burn and in fact he is working deal after deal across the board in shipping now a merger to add more dry bulk to his holdings. It looks like to me Mr. F is going all in shipping. SFL took a beating today not sure why but since SFL and FRO are locked at the hip and both belong to Mr. F control it could mean Mr. F is shifting some benefit from SFL to FRO. The best thing I have seen is not the deal with FRO to pool tankers although that is very positive but the fact that they are buying up bonds with cash flow due to higher rates.
The rates today are VLCCF 27,000 and Suez at 30,000 good news for tankers and FRO.
Nat should also be enjoying the rise since they have suez tankers.
I see 2.00 by end of year possible IF the key to the bond puzzle is announced before end of year. If we continue to hang as we are with unknown solution ( the debt is no longer 190 million down that 17 million) to debt then it will depend on rates and world events.
Our bet on FRO may not look like a winner today but Mr F clearly believes that shipping is coming back and if it does FRO will be part of that success.