oropan I did some checking on the relationship between GOGL and FRO2012
GOGL sold 8 dry ships to FRO2012 and then leased them back.
GOGL sold new build contracts for ships to FRO on some supermax type ships two I believe.
Mr. F sets on the board of GOGL and SFL and GOGL has agreements on lease backs and ship sales.
At least 8 dry bulk ships are owned by FRO and leased to GOGL and I do not know how many are under SFL agreements.
Clearly FRO (new company) is not owned by FRO but does have some interesting relationship with them and if GOGL defaults on lease of those 8 ships FRO will indeed be stuck with them and FRO does own them.
scs as you "should know" the Hwy budget is set aside for hwy building and repairs. Current gasoline taxes and some other fees are earmarked within that budget and can not be spent for other items.
You claim to for paying your way but when the rubber meets the road you always claim something that does not build a road. With the Stem money Pres Obama in fact gave the states billions of non earmarked money to deal with roads building and repairs and it was given to the STATES to carry out not the FED Gov.
Texas spent million of these dollars on roads and also were free to spend it in other places as well.
You are totally wrong in what you say and is nothing more than your usual fear and distrust of the Gov. no mater which party is in charge. A tax on fuel HAS to be used by DOT (usually given to States to use on their roads) to build and maintain roads. But we get it that you distrust the Gov even your own GOP controlled Texas I suppose who ran things for all of Obama term and was given millions in Stem money to fix the roads yet they built Toll roads as well with it. Get it right for a change and either really be for paying your way or stop saying you are at least be a man of princiles instead of inventing some false hood about how the DOT funds work. Why don't you look at the % that goes to the States and those that stay with the FEDS and at least blame the correct Gov in your case The GOP ran Texas.
I keep seeing you GOP boys cry out about the middle class getting the short end of the stick.
Please enlighten me on what standard of living do you call Middle class?
There used to be three classes withing within one. Upper upper class top 1% Upper class 3% and lower upper 6% thus 10% of population in the Upper classes but what is the beginning salary for that class?
The medium income in the US per family is 50,200. Surely this would be in the Middle class?
96% of all AMericans make less than 20,000 a year. I would say that this 4% is upper classes do you agree?
That leaves 96% Out of the upper classes or do we drop down to say 150,000 for lower upper?
Upper middle is topped off by some at 84.000 a year but let us extend it to 100,000 or really reach and bring it to 150,000? or Three times the National Average wage per family would still be upper middle class?
If you do a search on average family income you will discover that they are many ways to place the classes into a earning bracket but the one thing they all show is that what most people consider the "MIDDLE CLASS" are not the middle class at all. 45% of all famlies are "Working Poor" That only leaves 55% and I am being conservative with how many are in the working poor.
Here are my numbers what are yours? Got the guts to show them lol?
Lowest of the Poor 0-10,000
average poor 10,000- 18,000
upper poor 18,000- 25,000
lower middle 25,000- 35,000
middle 35,000 - 60,000
upper middle 60,000-150,000
lower upper 150,000 - 200,000
upper 200,000 400,000
upper upper 400,000 to $$$$$
Why is the "Class" important? If your going to be factual as to what candidate tax proposals are really going to mean and to whom using the correct terms would be needed.
If 50% of American families make 50,000 a year and they are middle class then perhaps only the Upper middle and above would really have to look at what say a Sanders tax is aiming at. Most on this list Upper middle or higher.
rami just how do think that could be accomplished by JF a stockholder like all stockholders and help him while the rest of the stockholders go down?
The RS should of made it harder for shorters as less stock out there at a higher rate and it should of made the stock more appealing to Mutual funds and others. So far it has not shown to have worked to make the stock more appealing to income investors and I think some increase in dividend may be needed without any more "new wrinkle" from MR. F.
Do I trust him? I trust that he will do what is best for him and with the new FRO I do not see why that would be to see the value of the new FRO drop in price as it is part of Mr. F net worth.
So far the merger and the RS has hurt Mr. F and the stockholders of FRO with no benefits at all realized.
Rather or not that was foreseen by Mr. F or not I do not know but clearly so far the end reslults have been terrible for stockholders. We need a "clean quarter" of the new company to get an idea of what the earnings of the New FRO looks like and until we see that without any thing added to the mix I do not think the stock will move up too much unless the rates again go up to the 90,000 or higher which I do not expect.
rami I just have not been replying to your post but I have been posting.
Your view of FRO has been more on the money the last several months than mine I admit that. Do I think it is because of the RS? I have said that it was a bad move for stockholders.and the merger before it and now the RS has taken a toll on the stock price have you missed these post by me?
If the dividend stays the same FRO is now paying as of now is %10.8 return and 8 bucks a share would be 12.5% both given the FRO current financials should be easy to believe would last. I expect the dividend to be raised to at .35 cents or higher but doubt we will see .50 cents given the current rates. The new FRO has some drags to it aside for tankers which are all making money but the dry ships are not thus I think 35-40 cents will be more likey for dividend. That would produce a 14% dividend at 10 bucks a share and 17.5% at 8 bucks a share at 35 cents. If 40 cents then 11 bucks a share would be over 14% return.
You tell me why do you think FRO stock should fall to 8 bucks given the rates of today even? Only Market players would be the only reason I see and we have seen that before so who knows but based on value the stock is under-priced right now until rates become an issue again. IMHO
How about a little deeper post on your part as to why you see the stock falling? Can you even do that or is shorts and RS the only words you know? If so fine but once upon a time financials did matter on stock price and FRO financials are a lot better than share price is right now.
All shippers are going down so I do not blame the RS for this fall of FRO and frankly it is overplayed but big deal it is happening. Will it turn around is the only question? If rates do not do that then frankly I do not know what will. FRO is making money at today rate and a lot of it. Dividend raise will be the only thing that can change the stock price and we will have to wait a month or so before we hear anything on that I think.
Meanwhile we head south.
scs If passed (it will not be) it would do two things. 1. end any shipment of oil outside of the US which had been the law before that changed. I confess I do not know if that changed could of been vetoed by Obama or not or if he could of taken action to stop it by executive action as I frankly did not look into that. The other thing it would do would be pass on the tax to everyone who uses oil not to oil producers.
I do not favor this move (surprised you didn't it lol) In fact I think it a dumb way to go. We do have a serious problem with the need to find funds for road work, bridges etc. On that I would hope All would agree ?
Do you agree or not on that need? The main cause of the need for new roads and repairs to old ones is more use or need of new uses and the huge amount of more and more heavy trucks going on these roads.
Again if we look at Europe we see a huge difference in truck traffic damage because they use a lot smaller truck while we even allow one cab and two trailers even though it is proven more dangerous. Any tax should be directed at the cause of the need or else we support that terrible word "entitlement". Do we want to let trucks have "entitlement to destroy our roads at no additional cost" or not? Tax Diesel higher at the pump and if you want to "push" NG as a fuel source then reduce or tax free NG trucks. This alone would cut the amount of new Diesel truck builds over night and the Techno of NG in trucks is already available just make it tax smart to do the switch. The other cost for new roads and heavy traffic on roads you can see in Houston area or in DFW both. Too many cars and no reason to use Buses or trains in other words the suburg commuters are the ones driving up both road construction cost and maintenance and they get their "entitlement" The State and Federal Gas tax we now pay is not enough to keep up with road needs.
raise taxes on trucks and commuters and end farm free tax fuel.
Mr. BS if you really believe what you posted then you are beyond help.
Anyone who has weapons and takes over a Gov facility is clearly committing an act of terror against the US Gov. Last time I heard four of those clowns are still committing acts of terrorism.
If you do not call what was done in Ore. and act of terrorism as defined not by you but by law then what exactly do you find it to be?
Clearly if we are engaged in a war against a nation as we were in Iraq any action taken against US forces is an act of war. Once the US formed a Gov. in Iraq and "rebels" continued to conduct action against US forces and others as well I would call them acts of terrorism as well. ISIS is at war with anyone that is not them. We clearly are at war with ISIS. ISIS has no recognized Gov by anyone so they are in fact a group of terrorist.
Any rebellion or revolt against a Gov. is conducted by "terrorist" until they win and then they become hero's. What is today Israel was once an unrecognized Gov who was conduction a war of terrorism against all but themselves. When they won their battle and became the nation of Israel they were no longer considered terrorist but "freedom fighters" however they clearly used terrorist tactics to win their struggle. Egypt, Syria, Jordan were all Nations that opposed Israel becoming a nation and
conduct a war on the Israel terrorist who were trying to take away land from Palestine people by force. Acts of war by Egypt,Syria and Jordan against Israeli terrorist were done by Gov. and thus were acts of terrorism unless the acts themselves reached a level of violence that in itself was considered acts of terrorism.
I guess if those white right wing nut jobs or the few of them that are left would win over the US Gov. then they too could be considered hero's but until then they are merely terrorist and idiots at that.
No I do not blame GW Bush for any confusion over the word even if he might of misused it.
The rates are down from their highs and that has caused ALL shippers trouble including FRO. At this rate the present dividend will be no problem but unless another move up is seen I do not expect the price to move up.
This quarter will never the less be a good one due to the higher rates earlier and we could see a dividend increase up to .35 a share. This would help put a firm bottom on FRO at the 10 buck level.
Suez rates have really been hit hard and thus NAT is down a lot. The current split between VLCC and Suez is unbalanced and Suez I hope moves up instead of VLCC going down but both possible although I think it will be a move up by both but that could be more hope on my part.
The dividend needs to move up this quarter or it will hurt the appeal of this stock to the mutual funds which the split was allegedly for and frankly I know Mr. F is up to something the question is what will he do next.
His last two moves have done nothing to help old FRO stockholders but seems to me at least to be working on SFL which in turn has some of his interest in SDLP. Mr. F does make it interesting if nothing else.
dakine old Gerry was merely ahead of his time I guess as the SC ruled 5-4 that political parties have the right to rig districts along political lines as long as no race discrimination is involved. How is that for protecting individual freedoms lol. Politics first freedom when it aligns with party policy and if it is not against party policy. To be fair the US is not the only country to play those types of games and England at the time of the revolt was buying seats in parliament just we are doing today with the rich spending millions to get their guy in office. At least back then the guy buying the office usually used his own money today some millionaire or billionaire merely pays the candidate who does not risk his own money and sells himself to the highest bidder.
All legal and with the last SC ruling again 5-4 Foreign people and corp can buy an American Candidate. All legal. Some guy running against letting in illegal Hispanics being bankrolled by rich Asians who want more American Corps to use more child labor in Asia. Beyond belief all in the "freest country in the world"
Free for money to do as it wells perhaps but nothing equal about a person not having money or rich backers to win an office. Gone are the days when an average American can win almost any kind of race.
Money doesn't just talk it demands.
I got a mail out from Ted Cruz today or rather my wife did. On the outside it said "Check inclosed" Now that did not fool me for a minute in expecting a check from old Ted and there was a check inside the mailout.
From me to Ted lol. Now that check of course was not a real check but I hope old Ted gets a lot of them sent back to him by folks who actually think it is a real check. In Iowa he used the threat that by not voting you were breaking the law. What a guy old Ted is hey maybe Trump is right and Ted stole Iowa?
Nothing he will not do to get a vote or get some money. My yard needs cutting maybe Ted can send one of his "boys" over to cut it. I mean instead of using an illegal I could use a Teddy boy.
America is on sale to the highest bidder boys and girls as usual of course. Poor Wall street pumped 34 million into Jeb Bush but now they have seen the light and are giving to Rubio now.
Trump a bad loser and Ted doing whatever it takes while Rubio slips up on them both. Rand ran which surprises me as his dad never got out and surely he was not expecting to do good in Iowa? More to leave after the next state picks and then the GOP has allowed two states such as Iowa and NH to help to decide who stays in and who gets out. Nothing from the West or South or even the North what a way to pick our leadership. I still say Rubio is the man. But that assumes that the GOP voters are smart and want to win.
Here is one for Bernie to do. Announce that the first thing he will do on day one is issue an exec order allowing buying drugs from Foreign countries. Cheap way to buy a few votes. Would you rather save 500 bucks on taxes or a 1,000 on drugs?
VPS oh you used my name again. You do love to talk about people behind their back don't you. You are the biggest gossip on this list which is in the same category of sin as Homosexuality is or have you forgotten that as well. Disagreeing with you is dividing is it? You my friend have not answered the words Jesus spoke
or Paul and Peter and as they disagree with you I guess they are guilty of dividing as well?
Still waiting for you to show me in the NT were rebellion a blood letting, killing and wounding is OK with Jesus? Look if you want to praise the Const. and the founders as smart guys who wanted a show to run and knew the only way to do was to get rid of the King's rule I will agree with you. If you want to say that they set up a country that grew and did well for a lot of folks and continue to do that I will agree with you.
However when you say that was all God doing it through those guys and he used revolt and rebellion, murder and killing as His way of doing it there we simply disagree. American Const is one thing but God's word is another. If you see that as divided so is the word of God, a two edge sword in fact that cuts through the things of the world. But hey maybe you can find a verse that says Jesus, Paul and Peter were wrong about respect, honor and obey and oh yes pay taxes but somehow I doubt you will.
daily my point as I showed by scripture I posted was the teaching of Jesus was "honor, respect and obey" not revolt. You are a man of scripture I believe does not this give you cause for at least wonder?
Had England been left in charge of the colonies slavery would of been ended that is a fact of English slave laws not speculation. Driven by great men of faith like Wilberforce and John Newton and other great believers led the movement that ended slavery without war or blood shed. In fact England itself had no slaves during the time of the settlement of the new world. It did allow its colonies to have slaves but while not a law slaves in England was not to be found. The slave trade was ended by the Royal Navy enforcing English law and the English colonies were also free of slaves long before we fought our civil war.
No speculation daily just history and a history of men and women of faith in England.
What colonies of any nation had self determination and again I point to Canada as a colony that matured and evolved without blood shed. David because of blood on his hands was not allowed to construct the Temple of God shedding innocent blood and there was a lot of that on both sides of the civil war and the revolt and 1812 war all because of revolt and the spirit of rebellion.
Again Canada an English law colony did not pursue the murder of Indians and their history with Native Americans is one of a lot more peace than murder and that went both ways. They tended to keep their given word were the US broke ever treaty they ever signed. The Indian policy after the civil war was one of pure only good Indian is a dead one and drive them to death or reservations.
I doubt Jesus would be found leading the charge in any of this do you? If he would not how then can a believer be found in the lead and be correct. We are to be like Jesus in all things to become Christ like in all ways. The world can do as they please but we do not have that freedom we are slave to Christ.
VPS you clearly do not get it again.. You & I are both believers and thus every deed, word and action should be in line with the teachings of Jesus not the world. What does it matter to a Jesus man what 50% of the people think about a person or anything unless it lines up with Jesus teaching? He alone is our standard or should be. You try to excuse your gossip unproven words directed at HC not by Jesus but by 50% of American? .
Why do I live in America you ask because that document and the men who wrote it no longer is the law of the land. Thanks be to God for that mercy as I do not want slavery do you? I do not want the discrimination that it allowed against people of color and sex do you? I do not want nor like the child abuse in forced labor and no education that those men and that document allowed do you?
Wake up VPS we have greatly IMPROVED what those men came up with and again a lot of it by shed blood.
You are indeed a strange fellow that in one breath praise the men and the 245yr old document and then tell me not to bore everyone about it? Had I been born an Indian, black or a women what freedom would they have given me?
I have read those 27 items. Do states in the US print their own money today?
#20 In 1774, Parliament allowed French civil law and official religion (Roman Catholicism) to be maintained in Quebec, Canada, and extended its boundaries to include the Ohio River Valley. The Patriots disliked Catholicism as an authoritarian faith, and they resented the loss of western lands to a province that lacked an elected assembly. Looks like the crown not the colonies were protecting freedom of religion does it not?
7 of them listed were done so after a state of war existed and many more were about taxes. At least had already been chaned by 1773 and no longer in force. Those in Ore. have their demands as well as did the South. Who ever wins a revolt get to set the rules. Where is Jesus in this? Respect, honor and obey is where
eoptions have you served this country? Show me one thing I posted that was false? Do you fear the truth? If we do not profit from our mistakes we will repeat them. Leave the board to make you happy and the three that agree with you? I don't think so.
You fit in well with the my way or the highway crowd you have a nice deluded day.
VPS first of all I served did you?
Second you have zero facts on HC right now not one charge has been filed or proved that is a fact.
If you do not want me to respond to your post stop using my name in them I know you love to gossip and talk behind people back which I guess you think is OK with Jesus. I am a straight in your face guy and if your not man enough to do the same just another of your flaws.
Your not stupid your deluded by the tricks of the devil to worship American Christian instead of Kingdom Christianity. Don't dwell on the past you say while you wave around 200 year old words that were just words.
They had no meaning. The same men who wrote them killed and enslaved with no problems at all.
You can not post scripture only wittings of politicians.Over taxes at that
Tell me VPS just what freedom did those in the colonies did not have under British law? They had freedom of religion. Had they stayed under British law slavery would of ended without blood shed but the men who wrote of freedom did not free slaves. The British did not have a policy to kill Indians that was your God loving crowd that did that and oh while they wrote such lovely words but shame on Indians they were cheated and murdered to make room for more rich land owners to expand their holdings.
God did not favor that kind of behavior or has murder become a new ternate of American Christianity?
It is funny how you wrap America around God when you read words on paper but cry fowl when I show the real America. Slave owners, murders of Indians, thrust for blood that had both a whiskey rebellion (how Godly is that? and yes over taxes again) and started another war against England and finally fought its own self. It was not the North that started the civil war but those of rebellion in the South who after the war was called the Bible Belt while practicing Jim Crowe for profit. A nation of laws to OK murder of Indians ,slavery, child abuse, women's rights and racism. Words only
VPS your post is the world as you see it. You are entitled to your view just as I am entitled to disagree with you as how you see it. You need to reread some of the things all unproven (gossip) about HC that you posted if you seriously believe you have not "attacked her" with your unfounded attacks on her character.
You did defend her on her staying with BC but that stands alone to your numerous other statements all unproven as of now. If and when she is found guilty of anything you may feel free to post the proven facts about her but until she is found guilty of anything you are merely gossiping what others have posted since you have zero first hand knowledge about BenGaza or her emails or anything she has done for that matter.
You dodge scripture which I provided as my reason for my faith and ideology both the same BTW. and you have no answer to the blood lust that revolt caused in America compared to Canada. I did not even mention the war of 1812 also started by the US against England where more died. A history of rebellion, violence and not turning the other cheek, not loving your enemies which in America case were in fact kin folks across the seas in many cases. To outright war against themselves. You continue to focus on words on paper instead of facts. There was no freedom for slaves until yet another blood letting forced it on the South and no voice in Gov for women until 150 years after those lofty words were written.
The title of this string is about right wing nut jobs in Organ taking arms and taking over a Gov facility.
You took issue with me over that. So tell me do you not see these men and women as right wing nut jobs committing crimes of armed terrorism? If a group of Muslim had done the same thing what would of called them? I do not know what Islam teaches about revolting against the Gov over them but I do know what the NT tells Christian to do and armed revolt is not found.
Mr. VPS since you used my name I feel free to respond to some of what you wrote. I put forth scripture that clearly is against armed revolt. I put forth the facts that Canada also a Christian colony of King George's England did obey scripture and did not take armed revolt. As a result they evolved into a Free Democratic Nation without blood shed of a revolt against England and yet another bloody revolt the worst in American History in cost of lives North against South. Once the door of revolt is accepted by people who are Christian it was not hard to open it again was it? Both the North and South were sure God was on their side were they not? Both were Christian causes over the same FREEDOM's that you go on and on about. While Canada shed no blood and even dealt with native American's in a lot more Christian fashion than the US policy of killing them since they were not real human beings. Again not a very Christian idea is it?
Jesus did teach class warfare you are wrong yet again. He warned over and over again about how seductive being rich makes a person or have you forgotten about the "eye of a needle". To those that will not share their wealth with the needed they will be cast into a pit of fire for "doing unto me as you did to the least of them" The rich young ruler was a sad victim of class warfare as he would not turn lose of what he had to gain the world.
Fine words on a page means nothing as James teaches. Anyone can say be bless, I will pray for you and go on their way without helping. There was none of those fine words for slaves or Indians or women now were they? Only words on a paper and oh how it seems to impress you.
You wail about all the liberals that attack any poor right winger on this board when they post. This board is 80-20 right wing at least and when you "attack" HC as you do often yes I try to defend her if you are spreading unproven political ideology, which again the word says do not slander or gossip.