The last quarter report address the higher rates being paid to SF and that is one reason why the break even rate on FRO is greater than NAT however as long as the rates stay about 40,000 which they are now and have been for the whole quarter there should be no way that FRO will post more of a loss than the last quarter being that the pay down on the bonds may effect the amount of loss due to ONE TIME Write off charges but not sure how FRO set up the accounting to cover the bonds coming in.
Nothing has changed for FRO from the last quarter to this one except the debt will be lower and cash flow will increase. depreciation will cause an expense of course and this is not out of cash flow at all and is merely a book write for tax purposes.
Rates are still the key to ALL shippers and the fact that Mr. F owns Ship and FRO2012 and other shipping companies merely means He can decide how he wants the cash to flow in each of them. No way he is going to let FRO go BK that is not even on the table any more. Balance sheet is cleaning up and cash flow improved greatly so if rates hold FRO will find its way back up an could come fast if they decide to start a dividend payment. Good buy at today price if you like to gamble.
dakine Exide had a plant North of Dallas and the city go into it with them over polluted land that they had their plant on over clean up cost. It is my understanding that Exide had to close down the plant and is now BK for protection but I could be wrong.
scs no lets not "throw money at them" Lets close down the schools, stop all programs that help anyone Vets included since being a vet according to grump is not enough to earn you the right to vote why take care of them? Lets end the practice of saving lives in the ER and let them all die since Rail states clearly by living they contribute nothing and cost tax dollars.
Now we have cut our budget and all without having to raise taxes NOW That makes me a Great American and a patriot in your book I guess. I am a vet and I was in a real killing and dying war unlike Grump,you or rails and frankly I am getting a little tired of money loving people hating guys like the three of you telling me what is patriotic or best for this country.
I rather set down and eat a meal with a poor person who willing shares his meals with other poor than eat with rails who sees no value in the lives of those poor. I rather spend time with a guy with one arm losing it in fighting for his country and listening to him tell me how he plans to vote than listening to the likes of Grump saying an arm is not enough price to earn the right to vote as real American pay taxes not arms. And then their is you I would rather not go to church than to have to go and set beside you as you amen taking food stamps away from children and their mothers and fathers and tossing them out in the street as the Jesus you worship only expects you to that with your own money and not use the Gov to accomplish that. People count to God and should count to their country and if money is the only measuring stick to determine the worth of human life and reducing debt is more important than feeding and caring for children then your right I have no loyal or patriotism at all for such a country and that is what you want America to become you can go give your arm for her I would spit on the ground for such a country. Nor would I worship such a small God that does not know how to use Gov to help people.
rails I am so sorry to read this post of yours "If a poor person on welfare gets sick and dies due to lack of health care there is no impact on society. In fact a financial burden to tax payers has gone away. Perhaps Soylent Green wasn't such a bad idea after all." Clearly I hear the boots of #$%$ Germany stomping on the ground as they like you decided who was worth living and who was not.
Are you so ignorant of history to not know all the brilliant people that were born of poor parents and who life has blessed even you? You actually did tell the truth however which most of the GOP type like you will never do. Given life of the poor or paying taxes they always choose taxes.
I doubt not one of your GOP buddies on this list will call you to task for this post why they do not can because of several reason 1. They agree with you. 2. They can not bring themselves to break rank
Thank you for at least not claiming to be a Christian you are in fact like Lake in your belief and that should make Lake even madder knowing that while he cares about the poor and goes against his own belief in the strong should survive to prune out the species you believe that money is gauge of mankind and the poor exist only to serve and not cost those who have money. Again did your parents raise you this way? I really would like to know from what source you got this idea of valueless life as compared to money accumulation.
You really did sink to a new low on that statement and I wish you were joking (bad joke as it was) but sadly I think you are such a human being that life means so little to you when out of your class. May I suggest India as a country that seems to be still effected by the class system lots of wealthy folks over there that do not at all care if the poor live or die as long as they produce more wealth for them instead of taking anything from them. Jefferson Davis may of liked you idea but he was a traitor and terrorist who should of been hanged.
rails what is wrong with the way Travon Martin looked? Was not your look maybe? Not your culture? Didn't meet your approval ? I doubt any young person would want to look, dress and act as you do don't you? When you were young did you want to dress and act like the older folks your peers? It seems the old always looks down on the young when they fail to look and act like them. Nothing new under the son. Do you not see how prejudice your post is? Notice I didn't say racist which it is indeed very close to that as well but some how you have place a value on a person who dresses a certain way then expanded it too two girls who do not even dress as the male did but they are all black is that your point or you being a GOP type merely like attacking the kids of President Obama who you hate? I would hope you would be more of a man than that but it seems you are not. I am sure your mother taught you better so apologize to her for embarrassing her no need to do it to the board and even if she has departed you still need to apologize to her and your dad too I am betting.
rails is that you or some kid out in the school yard just shouting out anything to be heard? Poor doctors is that what you are now claiming?
Lets see your "logic" and some facts shall we?
1. The full of effect of ACA (thank you for not calling it Obamacare there is hope yet :) can not possible be measured yet as it is just now going into effect and with all things passed into law some fine tuning
will no doubt happen.
2. Your claim that doctors office are empty is sure not happening in any of the many offices I have unfortunely being setting in and if you want me to cry for doctors forget that.
3. Once again your "dip sticks" comment shows how prejudice you are on ALL folks who are up to your standards and is very wrong.
4. Here is a FACT to see a doctor before ACA you had to have cash money or insurance period. They didn't see anyone on credit or the dole so with ACA more have insurance a lot more have insurance so you should be crying how all the "dip sticks" are now crowding into the doctors offices. A sick person middle, lower or higher eco classes will see a doctor if they can afford it period. Before ACA the poor had to go to the ER now they can go into those so called empty office you claim they are there.
5. Again you turn into a small child instead of an adult crying all "Dependencycrats" are communists as you name call and show how you judge all who you don't like with name calling.
You can do better if you deal in facts but right the now facts on ACA or too good to attack. The doctors biggest threat are not from ACA insurance owners but from Medicare which threatens to make them earn perhaps under 500,000 a year. Poor doctors sniff sniff.
scs the reason our credit rating took a hit was because of the GOP threat to default on the bills and shutting down the Gov. It is amazing how you forget things like that. But since the credit rating is a phony number as you know given that all the Financial Inst. that went BK had great ratings as did most other Corp that went down the real question should be who pays the credit rating to cook the ratings? If you think credit ratings determine the ability of the USA to borrow money and it somehow effects the Fed rate or bond payment rate then you are not much aware of who is buying our paper.
All you have to do is look at the stock market over the last 6 years to see the growth of the health of the US eco and when you see it nose dive that is due to GOP ignorance in their political moves to shut down the gov or for the country into default which gladly the people in mass did not approve and the GOP had to retreat but the damage to the stock market and the credit rating was done.
I guess it was not the Obama led Defense Dept that killed OBL either as you want to blame the guy for every bad thing that has happened in the last 6 years even the things that the GOP caused. Texas school are again 46 out of 50 for funding per student and the GOP controlled State Gov is cutting more state money away from the schools. I guess they want to be the worse funded state in the union for public schools.
I guess you home school your kids so you don't care about that?
dailybread do you admit that the US was in a depression when Obama took office? By your own post we are not now in a recession so I guess Obama policies have improved our eco situation regardless of what you think of the man or his ways of doing this it has worked. How well has it worked? Look at the EU and UK and you will find they all followed a less aggressive spend program and did some cutting as the GOP always wants to do. Now look at the eco figures from each of those countries and you will find that not one of them has recovered as well as the USA under Obama policies. Now those EU and UK countries are not cooking the books to make Obama look good and themselves look like failures nor is the "Liberal Media" cooking the number in EACH of those Gov. to make Obama look good. The facts are Obama followed a proven method to turn a eco system in recession around and that is to stem the eco. Henry Ford no Liberal Demo proved this in the real world long before Mr. K had it taught in every college eco class offered. It works simple as that. RR failed when he tried trickle down and RR was more the EU model as Federal Spending increased a lot under RR. RR would be a RHINO today at least in his eco approach.
The media does not invent number or facts they report them. The folks that compile what is reported do so based on long established practices. It amazies me how you guys on the right who dislike Obama so much always want to try to find something bad to say when the FACTS prove clearly that Obama eco policies have worked better than EU or UK or China for that matter. Do what the word tells you to do, respect the president and pray for him and if your GOP guys wins in 2016 and I am still alive you can tell me to do the same thing. It is after all what the Word tells us who follow Jesus to do. No back door on that either.
scs not sure that yours or lake post is the silliest. Lake continues to believe that religion and Jesus are the same and that even Christianity and Jesus are the same. Clearly they are not. Not one single war the US has fought has been over even religion and certainly not Jesus.
You on the other hand compare Spanish conquistadors to ISIS
are you really afraid of ISIS to land on the shores of the USA?
If not why post such trait?
More people were killed in WWII and WWI than all the other wars added together and neither of them had nothing to do with religion. Same for Korea and Viet Nam or the Napoleon Wars that ravish Europe for over 15 years. Nothing to do about religion. lake would fail history.
You too I might add as Spain had a navy and attacked natives who did not have the weapons that Spanish forces had. ISIS last time I checked had no navy and their weapons were nothing to fear as no navy and no air force means and no armor. I doubt you will be learning Arabic or whatever it is they speak any time soon.
Lake you do forget 9-11 and the terrorist attack on the US. What response to that in Afghan Land would you have taken? The Tallyband were offering "cover" to the terrorist if we had done nothing it would of grown maybe into Paki land which has Nukes. GW fought that war correctly then he merely left without finishing it and foolishly attack Iraq. It is that attack that destabilized the Middle East since Saddam and Iran were at loggerheads and remained hated enemies even more than both hated the US. But when we stirred up that ant hill and put in a new Queen in Iraq that was same as sect of Islam in Iran we created the vacuum that became ISIS. Now at least we know where all those well trained army guys of Saddam went only to reappear as ISIS. IF we would pack up and leave All the middle east today it would revert to warring and killing each other for control of the oil under the name of religion.
Obama has not seen fit to do this and only this week said he was leaving almost 10,000 troops in Afghan land a war that can not be won as the only time those folks are happy is when they are killing someone. If no American's were there they would just have each other to kill. Use air power to keep you dog in the fight if you have too but get the ground targets out of harms way and as a tool to built up HATE for the hated UN Islamic Americans. Why our presidents do not understand the lesson seen so clearly in History is only credited with EGO is all I can think. To walk away is to admit defeat and they just can't bring themselves to do that. They will continue to fight an unwinnable war and claim victory just a Nixon did in Viet Nam but we all know how that came out. hopeless.
Rails are you a free trader and supporter of Globalism? If so then surely you realize that the aim of that is to take away manufacturing jobs from the US. If you understand that you surely most know that 99% of the GOP supports Globalism just as does about 45% of Demo's.
Low wages because the growth area in the eco has been only in jobs that STAY in the USA which include a huge amount of retail and food service jobs. Automation does away with a lot of jobs as techno advances continue to require less and less actual humans to do the jobs.
When was the last time you talked to someone in the USA on a problem you are trying to resolve in the Techno field? The wireless, internet and phones service are being "Outsourced" as fast as they can.
Outsource is the key word for ALL US Corp's that can get away with it.
Without laws to protect the American worker then their days are numbered. We are becoming like the Old UK empire where the rich benefit abroad and live large while at home the streets are littered with the poor.
That is what our elected politician's have pushing since GH Bush said it was the New World Order but he merely put to words what Nixon had started. China is a lot less a foe today because of Globalism and the world safer for it I will give that point to Globalism and it is the hope of the West to change the devotees of any culture to Western culture especially the Islamic cultures but instead of going to them to "outsource" they have come to Europe and the US in big numbers. All to feed the giant of Capitalism which must be honored and worshiped regardless of the cost in terms of terrorism and wars. Lake believes Religion is the main cause of wars but if you unpeel the onion you will capitalism, trade, wealth and power the real cause and that game is still being played today. politician's are a mere distraction to keep your eye off the real ball which is who and why controls the politicans.
Lake please show me the post where I attacked your family and if you can then I will apologize to you and the whole board.
The last time you said I did something you couldn't even get the date of the post right much less the meaning of the post.
Other than to say I can not believe your family would be proud of your behavior I need not make any comments about them as you give me all the reason I need to respond directly to you.
You want to blame God for everything yet you do not believe in Him and you refuse to blame the devil for such action because why? You don't believe in him either. Maybe the guy had a bad monkey in his family tree? Or his long distance Omeba was flawed and his DNA was tainted by bad family genes in the crawl from water to land? For whatever reason the guy did what he did it was indeed a most selfish act. Jesus tells us clearly that selfishness is a sin before God nothing proves Jesus right more than such a selfish act.
You and rails might find some items of debate if you wanted too and actually engage as adults but for some reason you both seem caught in pre kindergarten level of not playing well with others. Both have potential to express your position but seems that you guys would rather get all heated up and puffed up in selfish display of childlike behavior that insults both your intelligence.
Lake on man you are missing the golden opportunity to wail away at religion. Israel is a perfect example of "Holy Ground" mentality. The racial right wing Zionist religious wing (the guys with funny hair do's and black cloths that assemble around the wailing wall and wail) are as powerful and influencial in Israelie politics as the tea party to American Politics even more so. You Pal Netanyahu ran as far right as he could get to kiss up to that wing of Israel. They will not give up one inch of Promise land as they believe still in the OT being a book to yet come true. I have been reading the OT and I just staggered out of lamentation into Ezekiel and man anyone who wants to go back to that deal is a real nut job. Which of course the right wing boys who go around with scripture on their forehead seem to want to do. God wacked Samara and Juda big time and even told Juda that they were worse than Sodom and Samara.
While the majority of the people of Israel is not very religious to go to war for it the right wing majority is strong enough that old Netanyahu ( a terrorist himself in his younger days) won the last elections even after Net baby took a wet on the leg of every major nation of the world. Old Net is no Religious boy but he is a hard core right winger who like all right wingers lives in fear, anger and hate. At least the guys at the wall have something outside of themselves that I can blame for their actions.
Sad that Iraq has killed more Iranians' than Israel has by a big big really big number and yet Iran seems more hateful toward Israel than Iraq even when they have MAJOR religious sect differences and are sworn enemies. Yes Lake Religion is a Big part and the scape goat used to keep the flames of hate and ignorance alive and well in the middle east. But just for the record Lake none of the cats mentioned believe in or try to follow Jesus if they did we would have peace not war if they followed Him.
Mr. BS the health care industry is alive and well as are the insurance companies before and after Obama Care. The big winners are The low income folks, the pre existing conditions folks, kids up to 26 or their parents who get cheap insurance on their kids now to 26. Yes they are some lossers. They were winners and lossers before Obama care the who is and who is not has changed but someone always wins and someone always losses.
The Doctors win because if you do not have you co pay you do not see the doc's in their office and they can treat more now that now have insurance instead of nothing or medicare and get money.
The hospitals win big because they HAD to treat in ER and eat the loss that will not happen no where near as often but do you expect cost of Hospital treatment to go down because they make more money? If so I want to sell you a bridge.
Insurance co. over a few years figure out the numbers and a way to win as they always do. May take them a year or so to get it right but don't worry about them.
Top 10% of American earners the difference will not hurt their life at all they will cry and moan and protest as they watch ever penny but the truth is they can afford any new cost and not miss a bit.
Lossers Us who have insurance, good credit and want to keep it. The doctors and hospitals charge you a rate that Medicare if you have it will cut WAY DOWN and pay the agreed amount then your insurance will pay most if not all the rest if you have it.
For those that only have insurance you get hit with non PPO and whatever is above the PPO and they will demand payment or ruin your credit. Even if you do not need credit it will be ruined and the creditors will hound you until you pay or they after a year or so give up. My anesthesia for 2 surgeries was billed at 4700.00 bucks Non PPO Insurance said they pay 65% of normal and proper. That turned out to be less than 50% and guess who paid the rest lol. Obama care will not change that.
investor hound If your long then you must know the answer to most of your questions.
Debt payment according to FRO last quarter release will be paid for what is left of it by cash flow and the rates for this quarter support such cash. No problems there is expected.
New builds takes a while and for the next 1-2 years what you see is what you will get.
I posted today that Mr. F has been a busy beaver and he has a game plan that is for sure. FRO2012 is now back to tankers only as is FRO SFL solid balance sheet and revenues and profit only danger in MrF bag is the offshore drilling operation which he got rid of in SFL to clean it up some. Oil storage has peaked IMHO.
Oil price has bottom out IMHO. IRAN owns its own tankers and they are OUT of the Market and full of oil the deal with them is being brokered by ALL the Big Powers but you can't discuss Iran without some politics which you do not want to discuss. Who is manipulating the stock? MM boys but who for? I do not see FRO ever back to where it once was and in order to go over 5 bucks this year would take rates to stay where they are now and some big news that works out good for FRO 3rd quarter dividend perhaps or merger.
Given the rates and all the positive things that FRO has got too given where they were the stock I think should be around 3 bucks now not below 2.50. NAT has been on fire and that is build up to where the dividend is expected to be after next quarter. Even with no dividend FRO should be near to at least a third of price of NAT given they own more ships than NAT does.
The thing you do not want to discuss which is politics has a huge effect on the eco growth of the world thus demand for oil and tankers to move them. If the eco starts to slow down or hits pot holes that "scare" the market then FRO will be hurt as will all stocks. I am invested in FRO but not greedy nor committed to the same window you are it can change fast both ways.
The movement down then up of FRO had zero to do with rates but might indeed signal some behind the scene moves that may come sooner than later. Mr. F has been a busy guy lately in case you have failed to notice. He has done some changes in ALL his holdings. SFL was cleaned of drilling rigs, FRO 2012 was cleaned of none tankers and FRO has merged with another company and Mr F is backing it all.
I do not know what the final outcome of all this will be for FRO but I see value down the road as long as the rates stay above 40,000 bucks. This quarter is almost a done deal all with high rate average. The quarter will be better than last with cash flow if nothing else. FRO is a bet on Mr. F it was and will be. Either you trust the guy to make FRO back into a money maker or you do not that is the line bet on FRO.
We do not know the value of FRO2012 but FRO owns some of that value. FRO is now paying SFL a higher rate which helps SFL (which I own as well) and that will continue as long as rates remain high. FRO has a higher break even than NAT and will make less off the suez than Nat which has been on fire lately ( I own some NAT too) but the NAT quarter will come out before FRO and how they do will be looked at by those holding and thinking of buying FRO.
Wheel is turning get your chips down. NAT WILL raise their dividend how much is the question and NAT price is already showing an up tick from that but when the post of how much comes out NAT could go up another 25-50 cents so still some room to buy some NAT. SFL is a nice LT hold and take the dividend as I have done for years now.
Mr BS Your so called reality is fiction. The numbers may be correct or close to it but numbers do not tell the whole story. The poorest of the poor was the largest sign up. So what that was the goal. What did they have before that? Medicade or nothing. Now they pay at least a little into their own health care and the insurance companies pay for some of the bills instead of the Gov or us (in the form of higher prices for those that did not pay when billed) paying for it all. Those folks will save the Gov some money on health care cost.
Some people are like you were and to save money will not buy any insurance as you decided to do. They will pay a fine and still save money. If they need health care they will either pay it themselves or merely go to ER and not pay for it as they did before. That is their decision. That study did not show how many had insurance before Obama Care it merely reported the numbers after Obama care that did not sign up. It is unknown if they had insurance before so numbers do not tell the whole story.
As the income goes up the number of those taking Gov insurance goes down that does not surprise me as I keep my own insurance and those with employeer policies would do the same as would their spouse. Again nothing to do with Obama Care. The private sector was the back bone of Obama Care either old insurance coverage or new ones you were free to decide what fit best with you.
People or lazy and frankly dumb a big factor. They do not shop insurance as you and I do. Obamacare has nothing to do with human nature and even those that might save money by switching would have to do some work on their own to find out and they simply didn't you can not force folks to do that kind of work even when good for them.
Finally your post shows what you consider the BAD things about Obama Care. It does not address the Good things that it changed nor does address the GOP doing nothing about health care coverage nor wanting too.