forgot to mention slw
lowest point for them was 2.81
highest was 46.81 current = 22.88
= they lost 49% of her value
lets look at the growth rate at svm growth rate then
slw = 2.81 * 3.17 = 8.907
meaning this slw could have more to drop unless their growth rate from back then was way higher
how about 50% growth rate? = about 21.8 about right
50% growth rate for 5 years = slw then.
if you believe slw actually did grow by 50% per year since 2008 then 21.8 is the right price for the bottom.
but if they did not they are not at 2008 levels yet.
PS I dislike them for their involvement with ABX Chilean scam
well in response to oopsie
note these are all in the fiat currency dollar:
HL only lost 70% of her value since 11.29 highs
exk only lost 68% of her value since 12.67 highs
ag only lost 60% of her value since 25 dollar highs
paas only lost 71% of her value since 42.65 dollar highs
CDE only lost 63.2% of her value since 36 dollar highs
GPL only lost 82.4% of her value since 5 dollar highs
slv itself? only lost about 54% of her value since 46-47 dollar highs.
ABX the fraud company stealing properties in Chile?(dont see jon carnes exposing their fraud...)
55 down to 19 bucks down 65% only
nem? only lost 55% from 70 dollar highs.
rangold: GOLD: only lost 40% from 124 highs.
gld= lost about 29%
GDXJ = lost about 73% of her value
GDX = lost about 59 % of her value
svm = lost about 83% of the value from 16 bucks.
bottom of 2008 = 1.23
growth rate of svm was about 30-40% meaning this.
since then svm grew 30-40% per year in production and profits slowing down recently to 30% range due to benny infinity qe raising costs
payout of dividends cut the growth by about 3-4% per year then
1.26^5 = 3.17 x the price of the lowest = 3.906
of course minus the dividend payout.
so this means that svm is below 2008 lows already in all essence.
PS tell us then HHH9576 why is it other companies can do this while miners cannot?
is there some law you can cite that tells us of this bureaucracy?
do they forbid the free flow of supplies? gold and silver flowing outside the country?
USA is a partner to china and mexico + canada in the economic stage I see no reason why some of us cannot have the option.
well HHH can you give me valid red tape? or are you just saying it without anything to back it up.
Do some research or do you expect me to tell you the answers all the time when you want to make an argument?
well? are you going to?
i am sure even you oopsoe cannot argue against a 60% tax and dividend expense savings right?
doing their capital structure this way is 60% better than what the companies are doing now.
especially since they have willing takers no one is invested in miners for their fiat right now that is a fact.
they may as well transition themselves to giving out bullion then and just saying no to the tax man.
if you people dont like it sell then. wait you people dont even own it. so why are you all complaining?
you have no rights as non shareholders.
*shakes head* at oopsio as I hope he realizes rocket launchers cost more than postage.*
ps postage and mailing in china is much cheaper but takes much longer.
also lead is much heavier than silver per coin oz.
and what 1000 shares for 1 coin per quarter?
what 4 oz per year?
or 120 dollars per year?
170 million shares = 170k oz sent out or 10625 pounds of silver.
1 pound shipment is about 5-10 bucks at most. in the states with insurance.
if you ordered anything from there you would realize.
170k x 30 = 5.1 million dollars at 30 dollar silver
that = 5.1 million tax deduction.
tax rates are 25-30% or so at least and vat tax is 10-15% meaning this 40% tax average saved shall we say.
5.1* 40 =2.04 million dollars saved vs using on dividend
they only really spend 3.06 million on sending out 5.1 million worth of products.
shipping cost = 10 dollars per pound at most with insurance = 106250 dollars more or 2.03 instead of 2.04 saved
and 3.07 million used for sending out 5.1 million worth of products.
currently dividend is paid out at 17 million per year. since it is 170 million shares *.10 cents
12.28 million is used at 30 dollar silver in reality vs 5.1 million x 4 which is if silver was at 30 bucks.
this is a lower expense taken by svm. current price of silver 22-23 bucks
5.1 now is 3.910million
the real cost of this
is 2.346 + 106.25k shipping cost = 2.45225 million per year.
total cost 9.809 million per year
total given out 15.64 dividend if linked with silver price.
tax savings + dividend savings of 5.831 to the company
ps dont forget we also get taxed with 15% here in the states and even more. unless it is tax deferred.
adding total corporate tax above 50% closer to 55-60%.
this methods avoids 50-60% taxation of the dividend at least.
or do you want to argue the numbers?
since you guys are so pro I am sure you can do the calculations to disprove my point
or will you call your bosses?
dividends push the price of stocks down naturally.
first thing first.
learn what stocks and bonds are.
stocks are supposedly perpetuity
and bonds are usually treated as annuities.
in most stocks cases like miners they are treated like annuities as well i would say. and reason is that they have a mine life depending on if they can source more mines to mine like oil wells.
if they can do that then they can turn themselves into the perpetuity camp.
depending on the management of course
I do hope people know the differences at least.
and anyway If you remember correctly in class.
stocks are only worth the future earnings that are given out not the stock price.
if the stock never gives out a dividend it is worthless. buybacks are a form of dividend.
as it increases risk of equity due to consolidation of the shares. so in bad times it will be worse and in good times it will be better.
dividends are a form of payout BUT one thing it is taxable to us.
silver is not taxable when given the way we and I suggest.
mainly because we are treating it as a gift or barter.
and it is optional as well considering people are complaining through their noses about no cash for them.
fine then don't take it but those of us that want it will.
denying us at least that freedom is communist. the very thing these people say they are fighting against.
what free market is that then eh? I already gave them a choice while they don't want to give me a choice?
I just choose to say no to taxes.
so again fasebyao what is wrong with a choice of taking the silver instead of the cash?
well fasebyao you can still get the cash dividend those that opt for the other option just helps the company out even more then.
you can opt in or opt out.
but the deal of course should favor silver stackers as it lowers the cost of the company if we take the silver.
in that case it can be optional.
the paper work will be more but doable and cheaper than the current structure though.
so anyway people not only does giving silver as dividend let companies deduct them from taxes.
they can also ignore the currency exchanges.
people do realize to convert them means they need to pay conversion fees right?
hence this silver as dividend is the smart way to do it.
anymore arguments against this proposal?
and this is one reason why I said to convert the nyse shares to china stock exchange shares.
there is no need to play here too much.
BESIDES my recommendation of silver as dividend means they dont need to convert RMB into dollars as they just need to send the silver to us instead.
WIN WIN situation again yet you people constantly complain how bad of an idea it is.
other notes and examples such as I suggesting to move svm onto the hk or shanghai exchange as this will expose the management to more danger if they do anything wrong.
LLEN did so as you well know and coillette that frequents the HL boards bought into that long term.
people like you and your group has been calling for their demise as well.
but they listed on the china stock exchange and all became reversed? hmm interesting no?
doing that will lessen your groups efforts and effect tremendously as such I have asked svm to consider it if they want to. though I don't know if they read my comments yet.
I wish the miners will do what I recommend already and be done with it.
they are dragging their feet way too long.
All of them not just svm.
PS your asian basher groups still reek of fraud and insider trading with lots of collusion likely many are ones that put out the fraud for their ipo inside the trading circles. but regardless
you vampire squids will get whats coming later.
oh geez fasebyao
didnt you already agree months ago that it was not svm that had the legal issues but in fact mr Jon Carnes?
even you agreed to that why the sudden change?
fasebyao you should join me in asking the miners to give silver bullion as dividend and legally speaking it would be a gift of silver instead of a dividend of course.
it would merely be vouchers to redeem silver from their website if they want to do it like that.
covers shipping and bullion cost as they can tax deduct it.
seems perfectly viable to me, dont you think?
your ag stock already has some parts in place namely they already have their own bullion they can sell/gift/ ship to shareholders.
I see no problem with this strategy as many USA companies in the top tier already do this.
also fasebyao don't you think asianvest is too annoying? we already told him the reasons in not buying back stock yet like we said and I said.
even vs jon carnes we said that and told him off. having to lecture him over and over again.
the markets are highly dangerous right now miners shouldn't buy back too much anyway and let them crash it then buy back a but load.
still waiting for the massive crash of the regular markets in this illusion of debt fraud.
sorry for your loss in ag
but what is it that you are doing coming back here?
if svm is losing money 99% of all the miners are losing money.
namely your ag mainly because they are not diversified in many different metals besides silver.
I will say this again in reality zinc and lead didnt drop nearly as much as silver hence svm is in better shape than ag when it comes to base metals.
now as for silver itself? all miners are hit badly.
ag was lucky orko got canceled and they got a windfall for it though.
if they bought it they would be creamed.
cde instead did but they and hl didn't drop nearly as much go figure.
hl bought a 50-70% over priced azk which would have dropped to 2 bucks if they didnt do that.
meaning it was a really bad buy.
rule of thumb you dont go betting huge sums of money leveraging over 50% of a company.
it was a make or break for them.
but wall street seems to like the buy? go figure.
ps no miner is making money if svm is not making money at these silver prices you can betcha.
ps who is getting the thumbs up and whom is getting the hate in the thumb up and down side?
90% of politicians get thumbs up because they shoe shine I am shoe shining no one except giving ideas that have merit and can be easily done.
except because you people do not want progress you all refuse to see past the the regular system of doing business.
I have provided solutions it is you people that refuse to adopt these solutions.
the common man will never do what is needed until it is too late
ahem they already do that for regular dividend 99% of all companies already do that for their annual report that is to be sent out to regular people?
what is your point.
I said already they already do these things 1 extra thing doing it for silver as dividend BIG deal?
give us a break hhh.
processing and shipping isn't that high at all we said already and did the calculations you are the one that cannot see the benefits because you dont want to.
you would make a great politician hhh9576.
always trying to skew the words of others and having multiple ID thumbing yourself up and thumbing others down.
way to go.
actually hhh9576 I would argue against that you haven't been reading have you?
1 coin is about 25 dollars right now even generics.
Starbucks coffee sells for about 5 bucks for a good one.
ps all shareholders get it even if you have 1 share thus some just buy 1 and leave it there forever.
just to get the voucher.
voucher costs them 5 dollars + stamp.
remember this expenses can be deducted while dividends cannot
if you took any accounting or taxation course you should know this at the bare min or any knowledge of business you would know this. People constantly making excuses against silver dividend is making me quite upset about the education of the USA.
the cost really isnt high at all.
for svm and all miners I have proposed to count the amount of shares the person has like they need to do for dividend anyway.
also count the amount of days the stock is held.
as a result they get points for holding onto the shares.
1 day of 1000 shares = 1000 points
that can be redeemed for 1000 points worth of silver fixed.
this system is easily done ahem banks do this all the time with credit card rewards and such as well as many retail companies.
25k points get you 1 silver bullion or something like that.
or even less depending on the amount of shares outstanding of course at the time of implementation of this.
maybe like 2000 or so for 1 point if there is too much relative to the stock.
redeem them for silver bullion etc.
ag already has a shop as I am sure fasebyao knows and they can easily do this as well.
SVM has related parties with smelters as well as MR Jon Carnes told us again and again early on in his report. Meaning they can easily smelt ore and ship it out to us if they wish as well.
Yes Jon helped many newbies look more closely at least despite him being completely wrong.
But yes I do question Jon Carnes education because his finance major seems to be a load of BS since he cannot even do STATISTICS correctly.
anyway I bid you farewell today HHH. think