I got a call from someone at yelp asking me to join and pay a fee so I can be rated by my customers. None of my customers use yelp but they strongly suggested I avoid the negative publicity that will surely be posted about my business if I don't join them. Very similar to the mafia asking for protection money. Figures that yelp would be one of wall street's favorites...
That's a nice Idea, they can scoop up all those cheap shares and put some black eye on these scammers. Hope this can be applied to usa china stocks, that may actually be a good use of all those usa dollars they apparently don't know what to do with.
Pretty common in pink sheet land. I seriously doubt there is any MM inventory of shares on a company like this one. The shares you buy are almost certainly not from another real shareholder seller but from a short position created by the MM so of course his game is to continue to crater the shares in the hopes he can get you to sell them back to him at a loss. This company seems pretty solid so just hang in there, eventually the game will turn but its going to take these china companies to wake up to the idea of a dual HK or Shanghai listing.
Good topic, the real issue for most of these china rto frauds is the china bank confirming the fake cash. Auditor is going to point to that document and tell the court this is not our fault, we have to rely on the bank. So what recourse is there against the china banks that enabled these frauds to exist in the first place?
All the fraud cases have this in common and this will needs a diplomatic solution i think since the banks are all government owned in china. China laws simply need to catch up with the rest of the developed world if they expect to play in our sandbox.
Someone send him an email, i cannot do all this myself! If they still own over a million shares i feel sorry for them... buy and hold for these china small caps was not a good strategy in retrospect. Maybe with that number of shares they should be leading this effort?
saw your mssg that Hogs is going private, another stock I own AMCF is also doing this at $4.21 but the shares are trading at $2.71... go figure. Market has decided to lump these china rto companies all together and exterminate them.
paranoia pays when dealing with the Chinese. What do you make of it that these banks were in on the scams? What recourse would American investors have against a state owned Chinese bank that issued a confirmation of funds that did not exist? In the USA I would like to think there would be some legal issues with the bank doing that but in China would the government allow a lawsuit (against itself) for fraud on this basis?
btw- I'm not a basher and own some shares of this and some other chinese stocks since they look tremendously cheap but what can we really believe? Why do they need to move ever dime out of the USA and into these Chinese banks anyway? Have you seen these Chinese state-owned banks balance sheets? They are completely undercapitalized by our standards.
I had some time so I checked into it...
From the 10-K:
Concentration of Credit Risk
Cash includes cash on hand and demand deposits in accounts maintained within the PRC and the US. The Company maintains balances at financial institutions which, from time to time, may exceed Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (“FDIC”) insured limits for the banks located in the US. Balances at financial institutions within the PRC are not covered by insurance. As of December 31, 2011 and 2010, the Company had approximately $0 and $194,000 deposits in the bank located in US which was in excess of federally insured limits; the Company had $70,743,843 and $49,969,700 deposits in the banks in China, respectively. The Company’s financial institutions in China are reputable banks and majority owned by the Chinese government. The Company has not experienced any losses in such accounts and believes it is not exposed to any significant risks on its cash in bank accounts.
"Reputable" State-Owned Chinese Banks????????
Forgot to add, you are right on about the tax payments which hopefully Sam Wong took the time to verify with his audit. No crooks would be crazy enough to pay taxes on their fake income.
But that question would seem to move onto are the Chinese tax authorities as corrupt as their bankers were in issuing fake balance confirmations to the American auditors? Could the persons at the local SAT branch be bribed to confirm the fake payments? Did the fake payments of these taxes acutally clear through the fake bank account?
furthermore, are the bank head offices now being coerced into playing along with the supposedly enhanced audit procedure by the Chinese government which probably is behind this entire Chinese scheme to defraud American investors? Where did all the american capital (aka "loot") that was "raised" disappear to anyway?
Am I being completely paranoid in thinking all this loot was necessary to prop up these chinese banks that are woefully undercapitalized and continue to be forced to make bad loans to the state owned enterprises? One can only wonder if anything Chinese can be ever be trusted. Does anyone know which banks WKBT is keeping its funds on deposit at?
I suspect the one common trait of the fraudultent Chinese companies was to keep its funds (raised from the americans) on deposit with one of the State-owned banks. I had some shares of that huge scam CHBT which unfortunately had most of it's hoard of fake cash on deposit with Bank of Communication which is one of the troublemakers.
Being from the USA, I never would have suspected the bank was actually involved in the fraud. We thought our banksters were corrupt but the Chinese bring it to an entirely new level.
Sorry for my ranting, I'm sounding more like John Hempton everyday!
If one can believe the auditor Sam Wong has done his job and performed the more thorough procedures outlined by PCAOB? It's really just a matter of market sentiment to pan on these china small caps right now until that changes.
The only thing that might make this market take notice would seem to be a dividend, a repurchase plan, or a buyout all of which are probably very unlikely. In the meantime if one believe in the company, all we can really do is accumulate these very cheap shares while the crazy market makers keep trying to knock us down. I'm not really sure who is unloading at these ridiculous low prices but you have to take all trading in the pinksheet arena as completely bogus. Scam companies trading in a completely bogus marketplace with corrupt marketmakers. Not really a marketplace but more of a circus midway game.
fwiw you can check the short interest here
there are still over 1.1MM shorted shares but I don't know if thats a reliable number. I think there are very few naked short shares anymore with the crackdown in recent years on FINRA brokers but who knows if they are really reporting these numbers accurately or not.
I'm picking up a few shares when they dip it below .60 on the ask. Should trade like CHBT did a few months back, it was at the same price levels with over 1.4M shorted shares but when they decided to start coveringthe price went up to around $1.60
I think there is some value here but doubt our stock markets ever allow it to be reflected. The vested interests here are to short the shares, get them delisted and scare away any hopeful investors. Don't wade in too deep into these china stocks
looks pretty good, clean audit report by the virtually unknown CPA's Hopefully they did the enhanced cash audits that everyone was raving about.
I think they got the eps and outstanding shares# reversed but .90cts earnings and we are trading at .32?
Where are those efficient markets anyway? A PE of .35? hello???
Makes sense, getting even for all the money they lost buying our bundled cmo dogcrap
Now it's our turn again, somebody needs to petition our congress to withhold payment on all those treasury bonds the Chinese hold. Divert the proceeds to a compensatory fund for all us schmucks who were taken in by these RTO stocks.
Didn't this one seem a little too good to be true? Now boarding for pinkyland and the trash heap apparently.
I don't know much about GU but it appears to have been loosing money and struggling for the last 3 years. Biodiesel and recycling is a tough business to make any money. Any sort of buyout would require Mr Shi disclosing some financials to base an offer on. If he want's to try this he will have to figure out a way to make the company loose money selling pork in china which would be a stretch given they filed SEC statemetns showing very profitable up to the point they went dark on us.
My own (probably misguided) belief is eventually the CSRC will get involved with all these China small cap RTO stocks having made such a mess in our marketplace. May take several years though, China still needs lots of foreign expansion capital to keep things growing. Their state owned banks are obviously not up to the task. If they want to solve the multitude of domestic troubles that are brewing, they will need to show the USA they mean business about providing some form of foreign investor protections.
Here is the place to send your complaints that would cause some true concern for Mr Shi.
myth, did you join this list? you know a ton about this company, i appreciate all the good info you have contributed here. you never know, maybe we can shake the tree a bit
That would be K not M
I re-checked the figures just now and we have a total of 896,578 shares
The total outstanding shares is 21,136,392 and the total USA shares issued was 3,863,636 (from the last SEC report. So we would represent 23% of the USA shares and 4.2% of the total shares.
I have received responses from only about 10 shareholder which total up to about 750M shares in the list. This is only about 3% of the total shares or 15% of the public float. I think the total public float was something like 20% of all the shares outstanding. So we have a very small representation so far. Hopefully more will respond if they see this thread so we might have a larger representative group.
My thinking is we can use the group to communicate our dissatisfaction with the company regarding sharing information. The stick we can carry to get them to pay attention might be something like this:
This references a rarely utilized Nevada procedure which is largely untested in courts. It is a means of having the Nevada court intercede on our behalf.
this is the most scholarly discussion i can find on this subject, the last few paragraphs talk about what a Nevada court might do. His belief is there is probably a fiduciary duty breached here which may allow the court to order some sort of equitable relief.
Here is a link to the actual Nevada statutes which require minority shareholders the right to receive financial reports. See NRS 78.257 Right of stockholders to inspect, copy and audit financial records; exceptions; civil and criminal liability; penalty.
What does all this mean? My thinking is it may be possible to have the Nevada court appoint a custodian and order the company to produce financial reports.
If Mr Shi decided not to comply, higher authority like the Feds might be able to intercede. I'm not really sure what would come from all that but perhaps Mr Shi could be encouraged to avoid this hassle and simply do what is the right thing.
The cheapest alternative for him would be to just bring the state filings current and post his unaudited financials on his website. Minority shareholders could choose to pay for agreed-upon procedures like cash balance confirmation, audit major assets like receivables and liabilities or obtain some limited assurance that there is no insider or fraudulent diversion going on. Would this really improve pricing of the shares? Probably would not but perhaps it may give us some hope if nothing else.
Comments are welcome of course. It could also be the smart thing is to just be patient but they have had over a year now to issues some communication.
Of course, let's make this the official posting to collect the data from anyone that reads this board. Send me an email to yahoo with your number of shares owned and I promise to provide confidentiality as to who owns what. I'll keep a tally of shares and report back my findings to anyone interested. Keep bumping this message to the top (as if that is really necessary!!) We'll see if there are enought shares to form a representation group or something. Maybe we can approach Mr Shi to see what is the plan.