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Intel Corporation Message Board

theblueredmonk 2733 posts  |  Last Activity: 22 seconds ago Member since: Aug 14, 2004
  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk 22 seconds ago Flag

    Well, I couldn't post all of it but check it out if you want to know what the post-smartphone future is going to look like. ARM and Apple investors beware the future. It's changing rapidly as the smartphone industry evolves into the next big thing.

    So will Apple and ARM be locked out of this unknown evolving future?

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk 1 minute 39 seconds ago Flag

    [You can't have things both ways, butkus. You argue that Samsung's new technology is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that they have drawn even in fabrication and that the new phone will bring them buckets of money and restore profitability. And then Intel jumps in with a win in the midst of all of this. So, this isn't something that has happened before. It's not the same old, same old and you need to wake up, put away the marketing spin and smell the coffee.]

    Yes, it's happened before. With the tab 3 and with Chromebooks.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk 1 hour 27 minutes ago Flag

    In the recent past, Samsung had increased the use of their Exynos APs. The fact that they now feel compelled to use Intel instead of Exynos is a "significant win" as mega.hurts put it.

    Samsung the device manufacture uses app processes from a variety of vendors, including Qcom, Mediatek, Marvell, Intel and Samsung electronics. This is for various reasons, but basically Samsung produces devices all over the performance/cost profile for a world wide market. Yes, the latest Exynos is doing well (in the S6) but Samsung will continue to use other suppliers for years to come.

    I am not arguing that this isn't a good win for Intel, but just pointing out that this isn't a unique thing (as Samsung has done this before). If you are looking to read into things, it's not about a single win, but a win across a range of devices. Given the performance profile of the device, it'll fit into Samsung mid range. Who will power the bottom, and who the top? If all Intel, then yes, it's significant, if not, it's same old, same old.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk 7 hours ago Flag

    This would be a significant win considering Samsung has a history of avoiding Intel SoCs for any product where there's an indigenous Samsung part or any ARM alternative.

    FYI, this isn't true as they have used Intel in tablets before (the tab 3).

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 19, 2015 7:06 AM Flag

    Samsung is a cheat.. They are now calling their 20nm process 14nm. LOL.

    Want to explain this from chip works (regarding the Exynos 7420):

    "The functional die size is ~78 mm2, which compares well with the ~118.3 mm^2 of the Snapdragon chip used in the Galaxy S5, and the 113 mm^2 size of the 20-nm Exynos 5433. If the 7420 was a straight shrink of the 5433, we’d expect it to be 55 – 60 mm^2, but the back-end metallization stack is reported to be similar to the 20-nm planar process, so a full 50% shrink is unlikely (and the analog regions never shrink as well as digital anyway)."

    The 14nm Exynos 7420 has a larger GPU and better ram interface than the 20-nm Exynos 5433. While Samsung's 14nm transistors aren't as small as Intel's 14nm, it's still a decent shrink from 20nm.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 15, 2015 10:24 AM Flag

    Okay, Monk - your turn. Show us where you got 2015.

    The Intel modem rumors are for the iphone 7, which which is rumored to be launched later year.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 15, 2015 10:02 AM Flag

    "That was a surprisingly informative hype-free list ;-). "

    [I must have been tired. LOL ]

    I suspect the original comment was sarcastic...

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 15, 2015 6:01 AM Flag

    17.) Apple using Intel's LTE Modem in 2016.

    That rumor is 2015.

  • Reply to

    The Case Against ARM

    by wallisweaver May 12, 2015 11:43 PM
    theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 10:16 AM Flag

    [Samsung's quarterly profit plunged by 39 percent]

    "SEOUL, South Korea (AP) -- Samsung Electronics Co. said its first quarter net profit plunged 39 percent as consumers switched to bigger iPhones"

    Now that the S6 is available, and selling well, what do you think next Q's numbers will look like?

    [The entire ARM house of cards is based upon robust high end smartphone sales by just two companies]

    Apple and Samsung? What about Qualcomm's clients?

    [The mobility market is maturing and it's the only thing ARM really has - the IoT is developing too slowly. ]

    According to ARM, 2015 Q1 royalty revenue was generated from the shipment of 3.8 billion ARM processor-based chips, up 31% year-on-year. Out of that 3.8 billion units, only 18% are from the Cortex-A range (ie, application processors), with the bulk of the rest being Cortex-M (43%) and Classic (35%). In terms of market segments, Mobile and connectivity accounts for 46% of ARM's unit shipments.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 9:03 AM Flag

    Airmont is 37% the size of Silvermont, it's only the fourfold increase in gpu units (4 to 16EU) that prevents Cherry Trail being much smaller.

    Yeah, but Cherry Trail needed those extra GPU's units. Even with them, it's not exactly screaming ahead. If we compare Cherry Trail in the Surface 3 to the S6 Phone, we get the following GPU scores (from anandtech):

    3DMark 1.2 Unlimited - over all 22,449 22,476
    3DMark 1.2 Unlimited - graphics 25,734 23,780
    3DMark 1.2 Unlimited - Physics 15,531 19,740
    GFXBench 3.0 Manhatten (Offscreen) 17.64 26.0
    GFXBench 3.0 T-ref (Offscreen) 36.50 59.10

    The first score is for Cherry Trail, while the second is for the Exynos (clearly there are issues in the comparison, as we're across OS etc, and we're limited to what we can compare given the benchmarks run).

  • theblueredmonk by theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 8:28 AM Flag

    For anyone interested, there is a blog posting over on EE times that contains some decent information.

    "Nearly a decade ago, the future appeared to be a divide between gate-last and gate-first high-k metal gate (HKMG) transistors that were soon to be implemented in the 45nm or 32nm process nodes. Intel went with a gate-last process while the IBM Common Platform, which included Samsung, adopted a gate-first process."

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 8:23 AM Flag

    Meanwhile the Exynos 7 has no excuse ...

    Well, a little excuse:) It's not a die shrink of the 5433 as it has a larger GPU and moved to LPDDR4, both of which add to the transistor budget.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 7:53 AM Flag

    83mm2 estimated by comparing known die size of 22nm die photo with 14nm 14nm photo .... 8-) ... and 1-eye squinting.

    Yeah, it's estimated, but it's the smallest number I've seen - Asraf calculated/estimated it at 87nm2:)

  • Over on anandtech

    "The version most consumers will be seeing is Windows 10 Home. This will be the main version sold on all consumer desktops, laptops, and larger tablet form factors. It will include continuum to transform from a desktop operating system to the touch friendly tablet version, and of course include things like Cortana. Although not specified, if it continues the tradition of Windows, Home will not be able to be joined to a domain and will be missing the business features."

    "The other version that consumers will see is Windows 10 Mobile, which is the version that will be installed on phones and smaller tablets. This is almost Windows RT’s successor, since it will be restricted to just being able to be used with the Universal Windows Apps which must be installed from the store. However this will certainly run on x86 as well as ARM, so it is not a direct successor to Windows RT. The version of Continuum available for this SKU will allow a phone or small tablet to be hooked up to a keyboard, mouse, and display, and used like a desktop PC, and although it will be restricted to Universal Windows Apps, these apps will then be able to provide the desktop experience, so as an example, Mail will expand out to the same version you would see on a PC."

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 7:25 AM Flag

    83mm2 for Atom (anandtech) and Exynos 7420 is 78mm2 (chipworks)

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 14, 2015 7:12 AM Flag

    I don't doubt that Intel has the smaller (and better transistor) at 14nm, however minimum gate size is only part of the picture. As an example, that Samsung 14nm part has a reported die size smaller than the Atom in the surface 3.

  • theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 13, 2015 2:32 PM Flag

    Samsung owns the high margin SOC ? Not for long.. Android based smartphones are soon to be a dime a dozen commodity product.

    Swap out that expensive high margin SOC, for a $5 part and samsung saves $25 on it's BoM...Swap out that high end screen, for a cheap one, samsung saves $60 on the BoM...

  • Reply to

    The Case Against ARM

    by wallisweaver May 12, 2015 11:43 PM
    theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 13, 2015 10:45 AM Flag

    [And yet Samsung's quarterly profit just plunged by 39 percent and Apple is over 7 bucks off of its 52-week high. You just don't seem to be able to grasp the cost side of the equation. Units sold don't necessarily reflect profits made. Perhaps the financial side is just too complex for your micro-architecture only skill set. The economics side of fabrication and the maturing market are killing ARM. Everything you mention relates to the high-end smartphone market and just for two companies. The big picture for ARM is very troubling.]

    I have already shown that the 'cost' for the Exynos 7 are well within range (indeed, very similar to previous Galaxy S launches). As for profits, given the price of the S6, how much do you think Samsung makes on each one?

    Yes, it's all high end stuff, which is typical when you move to new nodes. No, I mentioned 4 companies, Qualcomm, Samsung, Apple and MediaTek.

  • Reply to

    The Case Against ARM

    by wallisweaver May 12, 2015 11:43 PM
    theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 13, 2015 10:35 AM Flag

    [And how long do you think it will remain at TSMC? Does the ARM Marketing Department allow you to mention that the transition has been planned for quite a while?]

    You said:

    "Like I say, ARM is one Apple-Intel deal away from collapse. And the first deal (modems) will happen in 2016."

    So, how can a deal were the modem is manufactured at TSMC lead to collapse?

    When will this part transition? And will Intel still win that socket?

  • Reply to

    The Case Against ARM

    by wallisweaver May 12, 2015 11:43 PM
    theblueredmonk theblueredmonk May 13, 2015 10:27 AM Flag

    [And the first deal (modems) will happen in 2016.]

    Actually, if the rumours are to believed, in 2015 (but still on TSMC 28nm node).

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