KrimKrim... why are you not using your wtitter nickname anymore?
As Eypected .... KrimKrim .... is a 18 years old guy ... ... height 5'11'' (lol ..quite short) .. and weight ... 145 lbs ...
to see that I am right .... just google this:
"Bank's ADRs (each representing one-fifth of one share)" inurl:nbg
so .. this info is even reported on the NBG website ... how is it possible that KrimKrim missed it? .. I guess ... he is a little bit ... #$%$!
Apparently KrimKrmin ... does not know how to deal with ADRs/ADSs. Well ... KrimKrim .. 1 ADS is not always equal 1 Ordinary share!
You mad the same mistake once again here... when computing the highest Market Cap of NBG in 2007! ...
you see ... back in 2007 (here I quote the NBG SEC filings) "Bank's ADRs (each representing one-fifth of one share)"
Only in 2012 ... the conversion ratio was changed to 1:1
... so, KrimKrim ... if you take the 6 billiong you got ... and multiply it by the 5 conersion ration of ADRs into Ordinary shares ... ... you get 30b USD ...
You apparently have still lot to learn ... Glad to help you .. from time to time! Not sure you are however willing to learn!
you use 477 million outstanding ordinary shares ... and multiply it with the ADS price of 14 USD!
however, 1 ordinary share was = 5 ADS back in 2007 ... so ... this was the reason of your mistake!
you should have had multiplied the number of outstanding ordinary shares with the conersion ration (5) ... and then ... multiply the result with the ADS price per share.
Krim Krim .. you still claim ... you are correct?
He claims that NBG in 2007 had a Market Cap of 6b USD! ... Even after I pointed out how wrong he was ... he keept claiming he was right! ...
so, please ... verify it yourself: Go the 20-F for Fiscal Year 2007 ... NBG filed on 2008-05-27 at 12:59:53.
1. Go to page 149.
you will find the the highest trading price of 2007 was 46.09 EUR on November 7, 2007.
2. Go to page 174.
"As of April 30, 2008, the Bank's outstanding issued share capital consisted of 477,198,461 ordinary shares."
3. Multiply the 2007 High Price X the Number of Oustanding Ordinary Shares:
46.09 EURx 477,198,461 ordinary shares = 21.99407 billion EURO
21.99407 billion EURO was the highest Mcap NBG had in his history.
On November 7, 2007 ... the EUR/USD was 1.46
--- Highert USD Mcap = 32.11 billion USD
Can you belive that KrimKrim still states that his 6 billion figure is still the Correct one? .. ah ah ah ...
What a loser ... KrimKrim! ... he still hates me ... bacouse in December 2012 ... I warned him (StockGuru) that Longwei Petroleum was a Fraud ... ... he kept saying I was wrong! ... ... well ... we all know how that ended! .. ah ah ... he lost everything in 1 day (January 3, 2013!) ...
so ... krimkrim .. you are stockguru? .. the same one .. that was pumping LONGWEI PETROLEUM? .. .. yeha .. you have a nice track record .. of being wrong!
waaw ... Krim Krim ... you are really useless!!! .. ah ah ah
"Do you think it's reasonable to think NBG had a market cap nearly as high as present day JP Morgan? "
as of friday ... JPM had a market Cap of 219b USD! ... HOW IS 32B USD ... nearly as high? .. ah ah
Krim Krim ... you just made a fool of yourself again!
ah ah ah ... wooahhh ... Krim Krim .. how is it that possible that the SEC page is outdated? ...
I mean .. which information did investors use back in 2007 to compute the Market Cap? ..you are really a joke!
in 2007 the highest Market Cap NBG had was 32b USD! ... prove me wrong! .. if you can
The correct number is 21b EURO .. which in 2007 was = to 32b USD ! ... you can find this info in the 20-F filed by NBG for FY2007 .... in May 2008. Go on the SEC website ...
and ... btw ... don't listen to KrimKrim .. he is just making a fool of himself!
So, KrimKrim ... loser ... why do you become aggressive once your are proven wrong? ...
I just sent you an e-mail with the link to the SEC filing! ... so...
you have anything to add? ...
If you are a real man ... you will now admit your mistake ... ...
OK, KrimKrim ... I just prove it to you ... ah ah ... you are really a loser ...
but you already know that! .. On MTL I was Correct. Not my fault .. If you are not even able to perform the most basic DD! ...
Here I am Again ... showing the entire yahoo community ... how infantile and ignorant you are!
Or will you even argue that the info reported by NBG in its SEC filings are wrong?
Offer and Listing Details
The annual high and low market prices of the Bank's shares on the ATHEX for the five most recent financial years are shown below, expressed in euro.
2003 14.80 (on August 26) 5.56 (on April 1)
2004 21.87 (on December 30) 13.58 (on March 24)
2005 33.25 (on December 19) 21.71 (on January 3)
2006 39.88 (on February 27) 24.82 (on June 6)
2007 46.09 (on November 7) 33.67 (on January 2)
On page 149 OF THE 20-F for Fiscal Year 2007 ... filed by NBG on 2008-05-27 12:59:53
Krim Krim ... what a loser! The worst part is .... that once ... I prove you wrong .. .you become aggressive! ... .. you should just thank me .. and ... take the opportunity to learn something!
KrimKrim ... 6.5b? .. ah ah .. do you realize .. the huge mistake you made? ... you just don't seem to be able to perform even the most basic DD! ...
With the Alpha Bank .. you forgot to take into account .. that the ADS were 1:4 for the commons in Greece ...
For almost 3 months you kept using in you calculations the following assumption:
... 1ads = 1common in greece
Ok, KrimKrim ... I am start wondering if you are really that stupid .. .or if that's just a strategy. Anyway, if that's the DD you perform ... you should quit investing ... for your own sake! ...
31/12/2007, the stock price was 41.00. Highers price was on 31/10/2007 at 43.00
31/12/2007, NBG had 474,892,963 shares outstaiding.
Since I doubt you are even able to perform a multiplication ... let me share the result with you:
43.00 EUR * 474,892,963 = 20.382 billion EURO.
EUR/USD was 1.48
Max NBG Market Cap in USD = 30.16b USD! ... you see ... KrimmiKrimmi ... you just don't know how to perform the most Basic DD. You should not even consider touching a stock!
Max NBG Market Cap in USD = 30.16b USD!
As of 31/12/2007 NBG had total Assets for 90.385b EURO = 133b USD -- Mcap/Assets ratio = 0.2267
As of 31/12/2007 NBG total Operating Income was 4.559b EURO = 6.74b USD-- Mcap/Rev ratio = 4.47
Current Market Cap = 14b USD
As of 30/09/2013 NBG had total Assets for 110.963b EURO = 151b USD -- Mcap/Assets ratio = 0.0927
As of 30/09/2013 NBG total Operating Income was 3.789b EURO (annualized) =5.179563b USD-- Mcap/Rev ratio = 2.70293
So, ... Krimmi Krimmi ... not saying multiples will expand as high as they were in 2007 ... however ... if you were to apply 2007 multiples, NBG should Currently be trading at
$14.35 ... based on Mcap/Assets Ratio.
$9.70 ... based on Mcap/Rev Ratio
so ... my question again... are you really that stupid? You seem like someone that just took his first economic calls in high-school ... last week.
KrimKrim with the last post .. you just made a fool of yourself! ...
Not saying that's not a good news! ... however ... I am a little bit concerned... ... it's exactly this kind of financial assumptions ...that caused the 2007 in the first place! ..
I mean ... deferred taxes? ... lol .. in the case a bank is liquidated ... will the state pay them the deferred taxes ammount? ... lol
Good news ... however .. it scares me!
KrimKrim ... you seem to have quite a hard time ... to see the big picture! ...
I told you exactly what it's going on! ... NBG is undervalued with respect to ALPHA ... however NBG is also more risky!
You see .... the risk with NBG is .. that the BoG ... could decide NBG does not have enough capital and forced them to raise more of it by issuing new commons.
The Preferred ... would not be affected by new Commons ... ... so .. they are free to rally. Until the risk of the BoG wanting NBG to raise more capital exists ... NBG will "underperform" ... this is exactly what the analysts of the Big Banks are saying! ... Did you at least read their report ... or did u just read the headlines? .... Let me guess ... you have no access to the reports! right?
If ... BoG ... says ... NBG is doing fine ... then ... expect NBG to rally!
ah ah ... krimmikrimmi ... why are you still here ... doesn't ALBKY have a board? ... lol ... anyway ... NBG is cheaper than ALBKY! .. ... ... but also riskier!
"tangible book value to current share price" ... is a measure ... or risk! ... so .. as I said in my message ... ALPHA is better (i.e. less risky) ... under that metric.
Don't you see ... that a better Earning Power ... is what matters over the long run? ... This Means .. that NBG can build up its capital faster than ALPHA ... and ... as one point (2-4 years?) ... NBG tangible book value will be higher than ALPHA book value!
I am talking about Growth and potential .. your are talking about ... Risk. ... well
WITH respect to ... the % ...on absolute terms ... both banks have the same exposure to the greek economy! ...the 58% of NBG ... is approximately the 90% of ALPHA ... revenue-wise.
Put it this way ... but Purchasing NBG ... you will get the Turkish operation for free ... if compared to alpha!