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Market Vectors Mortgage REIT Income ETF Message Board

up1.down2 37 posts  |  Last Activity: Apr 6, 2015 9:35 AM Member since: Nov 12, 2008
  • up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 6, 2015 9:32 PM Flag

    Yes, more pain over the weekend...Thursday Close 5.01. Friday Close $4.90. 11 cent loss only until Monday. Mondays value is $9.80 or a 22 cent loss.

    Oops fred didn't tell them about that !

    If you have 5000 shares that is an $1100 loss in one day.

    And those 5000 shares now pay $175 per month. It will take 1/2 year of dividends just to make up one day's loss ? How again is this a good investment ?

  • Reply to

    Prospectus Math vs Real Math - U Decide

    by up1.down2 Mar 6, 2015 1:36 PM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 6, 2015 9:16 PM Flag

    And you said yesterday we were on ignore. Did you forget about that already or was my post so damaging you had no choice but to expose the lie. Why should anyone on this message board believe anything a liar says ?

    Ur not the prophet you believe u r

    What an absolute dunce ! If you invested the positive cash distribution back into a declining asset ($12 to $5) it can only be worse because you WOULD NO LONGER HAVE THE CASH.
    So what ! You have more prospectus paper. Oh goody. Remember McFly it went from $12 to $5

    Reinvesting here REDUCES the already miserable return. I suppose you were one of the suckers that reinvested ?

    No point in any further dialog with you as you just lie. And that goes for alter id robby. What goof would make an id like that ? U.

  • The board cheerleader has posted a scenario about how a $10k investment in GABUX on 3/4/2000 would have resulted in a huge gain. Typical fuzzy prospectus math. Real math shows the true gain. The 3/4/2000 date was picked by the cheerleader, not I.

    A $10k investment in GABUX on 3/4/2000 at $12.00 per share would have resulted in 833 shares.

    Over that 15 year period a total of $12.60 in distributions per share were handed out.

    At 833 shares that would be at total of $10,495 in distributions.

    On 3/4/2015 GABUX shares worth $4.99. $4.99 x 833 = $4157

    Total cash in hand after 10 years = $4157 + $10495 = $14,652

    ($14,652 - $10,000) / $10,000 = 46.52% / 15 years = 3.10% per year.

    How 3.1% equates to the double digit returns that are constantly touted is beyond me ?

    This is the REAL WORLD MATH or how much CASH an investor actually puts in their pocket.

    The Paper Gain Nonsense is just that. NONSENSE ! It has no purchasing power.

    Put $10k in a utility stock like DTE which is one of the GABUX portfolio holdings.

    3/4/2000 $29.50 PPS vs 3/4/2015 $80.58 Dividends since 2000 = $32.48

    $27316 in Capital Gains + $11,011 in Dividends = $38,327 Total

    ($38,327 - $10,000) / $10,000 = 283.27% / 15 years = 18.9% per year.

    This is REAL money not prospectus paper !

    The real KICKER. DTE dividends are QUALIFIED which means many on this message board would pay ZERO, yes ZERO taxes on those dividends unlike GABUX where you pay taxes on YOUR capital even though you end with less capital than you start with.

    Why buy a Mutual Fund with a 3.1% annual return where you have to pay taxes on YOUR capital when you could just buy the underlying stock and make 18.9% annual and have WAY less of a tax burden ?

  • up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 6, 2015 10:59 AM Flag

    looks like FeeRed with another id

  • up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 6, 2015 10:38 AM Flag

    Oh bother, another prospectus preacher. There is NO Tax advantage with this FUND. You cannot avoid taxes with this fund. Just DEFER them. Sooner or later someone will be paying the taxes. If it isn't you it will be YOUR estate. Those Grandkids are going to be sorely disappointed when the Will is read and there is nothing left but a tax bill.

  • Reply to

    From the Prospectus

    by up1.down2 Mar 5, 2015 12:04 PM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 5, 2015 3:39 PM Flag

    You sound like the Mutual Fund Prospectus.

    And I DID research this prior to buying it !

    The Numbers and Ratios were not the same when I bought it. I rarely buy Mutual Funds and when I do it's for ONE reason only . So I don't have to watch it. That is the Fund Managers job. When I can no longer trust the Fund Manager to watch the house, there is no reason to hold it.

    I know I already said this but I there it is again so maybe you get it the 3rd or 5th time.

    This Fund didn't have to collapse to a R/S. Anyone who is a Fund holder should be steamed about the R/S and why it occurred.

    It's becoming clearer why you think this Fund is something good.

    It it because you've got a case of Prospectus-ita and can't see out of that fancy brochure ?

    Or is it because you work for Mario ??

    I'm not 'mad' at the fund.

    That is pointless. I am providing an alternate viewpoint from a data and mathematical perspective, which looks to be necessary here. Just repeating a Prospectus is silly. I have yet to see a single one in my lifetime that doesn't have a quiet agenda.

    All the Gains and S&P Jargon is cherry picked to make this look like a desert. I challenge you to post the equation that matches THEIR numbers. All I hear is descriptions. Let see some numbers. If there are no numbers it's just cheer leading.

  • Reply to

    The Truth about GABUX Mutal Fund

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 8:04 PM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 5, 2015 3:18 PM Flag

    UnRealized Gains - UnRealized Losses - Realized Losses.

    The NAV of this fund is nothing more than it's holdings. Unless the market takes another serious leg up Utilities are only going sideways. Those holdings will turn with the rest of the market and thus it will be URLs until they are forced to write them down at which time they will be RLs.

    This is the real scary part. The NAV since 2010 has eroded a YoY average $0.40 per year in a market were GABUX booked almost $1B in URGs. What is going to happen to that NAV when it's mostly losses and little gains ?

    That huge gain that many like to brag about is a real bad thing in context. If the NAV went up during that period then kudos but to book $1B in URGs and have the NAV go down. Ouch !

    Even if the Fund were to liquidate all their 'GAINS' today there would be less NAV to hand out to each shareholder than what was started with. The Gains are irrelevant. Sounds good in a prospectus though.

  • Reply to

    The Pain

    by cptkorg Mar 5, 2015 10:48 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 5, 2015 12:18 PM Flag

    If the NAV was slightly increasing or just remained the same it would be a good place to put money. Unfortunately the NAV is consistently eroding and many are just blinded by that monthly check that in the big picture means nothing.

  • up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 5, 2015 12:07 PM Flag

    Seriously ?? This is your best debate ? Extremely weak and quite sad !

  • Reply to

    The Truth about GABUX Mutal Fund

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 8:04 PM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 5, 2015 11:58 AM Flag

    Oh bother said the pooh. You folks is brain washed.

    Do you realize a zero basis is not a good thing ?

    Having your cost basis even a penny less than what you paid is bad

    Having your cost basis at zero when you actually paid $THOUSAND$ is very bad.

    If your cost basis is zero that means the FUND gave you back capital and very little in income.

    And who gives a ratsazz about "$1B Unrealized Gain on the Books". This apparently hasn't translated into a higher NAV for ANYONE. What is really sad is once these URG to turn URL or RL the NAV drops even further.

    Unfortunately for some these concepts are too advanced. This is where and how the Wall Street fat cats clean out Mom & Pop investor. A bunch a fancy terminology that sounds good but is NOT.

    Here is some Finance 101.
    A Dividend IS a Distribution.
    A Distribution may or may not be a Dividend.
    In this case it's irrelevant what it's actually called.
    Bottom line is Fund is handing out assets not earnings !
    ANYONE can take your capital and hand it back to you a slice at a time.
    It's called a PONZI scheme.

  • Reply to

    Price of GABUX

    by zasov417 Mar 4, 2015 6:20 PM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 8:32 PM Flag

    You are correct. As long as the monthly distribution is comprised of 50% or more ROC the NAV will continue to drop. Last 6 months the ROC was 85% of the distribution. A 50% cut in the dividend helps the NAV but is should have been cut 85% percent just to keep the the NAV where it currently is.

    The NAV will slowly march back from $10 to $5. How long ? Depends on how much Capital Losses the portfolio incurs. With utility stocks near record highs what are the odds of gains vs losses moving forward?

    The NAV close today is now $4.99 so the R/S would price this at $9.98. Already below $10....

  • Reply to

    Sold out at a loss...well that's what I thought

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 11:49 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 3:34 PM Flag

    You miss the whole point. I certainly do my due diligence when investing. I did on the purchase of this one which is evident that I figured out in less than 15 minutes why this now a R/S. This is not the same fund I invested in. The ROC/Nii/CGCL ratios were far different. If I have to play analyst on a Fund there is ABSOLUTELY NO reason for me to own the fund. I have to do the Fund Managers job while he get paid for it ? If it comes to that I will just manage the underlying stocks on my own.

  • Reply to

    Sold out at a loss...well that's what I thought

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 11:49 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 1:23 PM Flag

    Why would I (or anyone) invest in a mutual fund if they have to do all the legwork. The fundamental reason to invest in a MF is because there is a manager, not to be trapped into a blind buy in or exit price.

    If I'm going to do all the work it's going to be a stock. I can enter and exit at will at the price I want. I was actually quite surprised the fund manager accepted my exit request because they do have terminology prohibiting such in turbulent times which right now certainly qualifies. Guess it would be hard for them to defend a lawsuit if they prohibited an exit after they chopped the divi in half.

  • Reply to

    Who would take this risk for half the yield ?

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 11:58 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 1:06 PM Flag

    That's a backazz way to extrapolate what the NAV would or could be and it's inaccurate. Let's take the AAA Class shares because that is what every retail holder is buying and certainly anyone on this message board. A less complicated and more accurate evaluation.

    For 6 months GABUX had $5.03M in income distributed over 148.88M shares. That is $0.03 per share. During that period they handed out $0.42 in dividends. That's is a $0.39 miss or distribution of capital. Even with the new dividend rate at $0.21 cents over the six month period the new miss will be $0.18 cents per share. There is no way a historic distribution of 85% capital can be made up with a 50% cut in divi. The divi has to be cut 85% or more for this to ever be an 'income fund'. Until that time this is just a ROC fund which almost anyone can achieve.

  • Reply to

    Sold out at a loss...well that's what I thought

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 11:49 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 12:49 PM Flag

    I knew they were handing out some capital but who would have thought 85%. One of the fundamental reasons to buy an income producing Mutual Fund is for the income, not a capital distribution. There is a minimum expectation that the fund manager would be generating more income than ROC.

    I'm not really sure what solid reason anyone would have for buying this now. The prior 15% yield (or so called) was somewhat of a reason to buy this. Now at 8ish there is just too much risk with the NAV and inability to have an accurate visibility on Tax hits.

    If I have to perform monthly spreadsheets to determine when and where my 'tax advantage' is then I will just trade stocks. At least with the stocks I can enter and exit on my own accord at prices I wish. The entry and exit into these Mutual Funds has a bit of uncertainty with a roll of dice on what price.

    I trade enough shares in the market that a ten cent swing in or out is a substantial absolute value. The argument of buy and hold here doesn't fly because anyone holding this over the long term is just waiting for their capital to be worth less and less. The history proves that to be true.

  • Reply to

    Sold out at a loss...well that's what I thought

    by up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 11:49 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 12:03 PM Flag

    You bet I will be getting out the 1099's and performing an exercise in futility, just because... The 2014 1099 shows an extremely high ratio of capital returns so my first thought is the broker is probably correct. Looking at the operations statement in the last N-CRCS filed with the SEC shows the same dismal performance so I'll probably waste good time coming to the same bad conclusion.

  • Reply to

    Was busy with things, I'm back now

    by sussenjreeves Mar 4, 2015 11:03 AM
    up1.down2 up1.down2 Mar 4, 2015 11:34 AM Flag

    Why do folks on these message boards worry so much about who is who and why they post ? It's absolutely pointless to waste time on it. Read the authors option or information, take that information and vet the accuracy of such. Based on the accuracy and what affect it may have on you, make a decision on how to act. If one doesn't agree with the post or the information then debate it. That's all there really is to do.

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