Wed, Jul 30, 2014, 1:42 PM EDT - U.S. Markets close in 2 hrs 18 mins


% | $
Click the to save as a favorite.

Molycorp, Inc. Message Board

votingmachine 169 posts  |  Last Activity: 2 hours 20 minutes ago Member since: May 12, 2004
SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Highest Rated Expand all messages
  • Reply to

    Please ignore CB-CB

    by votingmachine Jul 4, 2014 12:53 PM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jul 5, 2014 10:01 AM Flag

    My post was mostly to not use a topic started by CB for any meaningful response. I don't mind reading his posts, although I want to read them where their deletion does not create the same hole in a message board.

    The deletion of a thread a day after it started was what I found intolerable. CB started a thread on July 3rd, and it had a fair number of posts in it, and he deleted it on July 4th. I don't lament the removal of CB's posts ... they were incorrect. But I do think that it means that anyone who read it and contributed to the subsequent discussion was short-changed.

    I just clicked the cb_cb480 link, and currently he has 5 posts. Which means that he has deleted every prior post. Which means that if you had a post in response to his post, that post is now invisible. If you want your posts to be out there (right or wrong, we all are often foolish and errant), then you have to not put them into a CB response.

    I don't bother with the "ignore" feature. I just don't bother to click on topics that are likely to be of little interest or use to me. A post that gets deleted and bollixes up a thread is an example of a useless post. Since CB has deleted all but 5 posts, only those 5 could possibly be useful, and they will get deleted soon enough.

    By all means read what he says. If he says something that is insightful then consider it. Just don't expect that his posts can be part of any meaningful time-extended back-and-forth exchange.

  • votingmachine by votingmachine Jul 4, 2014 12:53 PM Flag

    I don't bother to click on the posts by the current ID ottohuber76 ... the current pseudonym of an over-posting short. I don't post in those threads. I don't read them.

    CB_CB480 has also been next to useless as a poster. But I've usually read the thread topics as the various other longs that also choose to bypass the shortside threads have few front-page threads to comment in.

    Now he's started deleting the topics he starts. Which bothers me because I had an open question in his last one ... I post as many questions as opinions, and I like to see what people think. If anyone had a particularly cogent point in a CB thread, it is gone to the rest of us. So please DON'T put those cogent thoughts in a CB thread. Start a new topic or put it in a thread by someone who doesn't delete.

  • votingmachine votingmachine Jul 4, 2014 9:36 AM Flag

    Yes, you are correct. That is a line from the Reg SHO Daily files of short data, not the Reg SHO restricted list. Every stock is on the daily list of DATA.

    I've looked at the daily data before and I can never make sense of it. They have data for 4 exchanges.

    no MCP data

    The format is:
    Date / symbol / Short Volume / Short Exempt Volume / Total Volume / Market

    What never makes sense is that the sum:
    370320 + 1727181 + 88524 = 2,186,025 total volume
    Yahoo's historical price data shows the 3rd with volume of 4,598,300. I've extracted data from the Reg SHO daily files and it never is the right total volume. The data is only regular market hours. Half the volume might be trading on other exchanges.

    If you understand this date, I would appreciate any explanation. I always like data, but I don't know what I need to know to understand this data. Looking at FINRA, short sale exempt is arbitrary enough to ignore ... uptick rule is the most likely reason, so these may be short sales at the ask price rather than at the bid.

    70700 + 553296 + 58591 = 682,587
    If the short sales volume is correct (and I don't see a record of covering in this data), then the 3rd was about 31% of the sales were short sales. But again, I don't have a grasp on this data. I have looked at it before, but the basic volume issue makes the data necessarily incomplete.

    Anyone with help?

  • votingmachine votingmachine Jul 3, 2014 10:00 PM Flag

    Watch it. If you start putting facts in here, CB will delete the topic.

  • votingmachine votingmachine Jul 3, 2014 2:49 PM Flag

    Is that your idea of EXPLICIT directions? I googled "reg sho list nyse" and looked at that threshold list. MCP is not on it.

    I don't approve of most naked shorting. But the Reg SHO rules are uselessly weak, and then the SEC is an agency without much enforcement activity.

    You said:
    "you don't understand the point to the SHO rule..... uptick is a minor issue why not focus on whats really important which is ........ the prevention of any further naked selling and punitive discipline towards all broker dealers involved"

    That is not what Reg SHO rules do. There is NO punitive discipline ... the rules say what the punishment is and that punishment is to say "do it no more". It is like you are guaranteed to get a warning when pulled over for speeding ... you get pulled over at 120 mph, and the cop has to say, stop speeding. And naked short selling is NOT a problem anyway, as demonstrated by the fact that MCP is not on the Reg SHO list.

    All that happened was the circuit breaker rules applied. The way I see it for naked shorting, if there is a high level (unspecified as far as I know) of failure-to-delivers, then the stock is placed on the Reg SHO list, and a few of the legal naked short trades are made illegal. But since most naked shorting is illegal already ... the list and rules do almost nothing.

    Oh, and none of that matters because MCP is not on the Reg SHO list.

  • votingmachine votingmachine Jul 3, 2014 11:53 AM Flag

    And you clearly have no idea how ineffective the Reg SHO list and the SEC are at doing anything.

    Naked shorting is always illegal except for certain situations. The circuit breaker rule doesn't change that. I don't see MCP on the Reg SHO list. If you do, point out how to find that list, EXPLICITLY. I googled "reg sho list" and looked at the Nasdaq threshold list.

    You should go find just one example of SEC punitive action based on Reg SHO. WHat I see is that when a stock os placed on the list there are a few extra rules, but they don't amount to much IMO. I love the penalty for getting caught naked shorting. That penalty? Oh, you can't short the stock anymore. And the naked short for a daytrade still looks legal by the rules ... shares would be located by the T+3 rule.

    The SEC is not interested in limiting this. They are interested in giving the appearance of providing adequate policing with reasonable rules. IMO the point of the Reg SHO rules are to give the illusion that the market regulatory agency can limit naked short sales, if they put the stock on a list (and MCP is not on the list).

  • votingmachine votingmachine Jul 3, 2014 9:11 AM Flag

    I don't think the circuit breaker is important. It puts an uptick rule back in place which only inconveniences shorts. I have not seen the threshold list with MCP on it. That also has next to no effect. Unfortunately.

  • votingmachine votingmachine Jul 2, 2014 7:48 PM Flag

    I don't either, but obviously the "devil's advocate" would argue they depleted cash by $80 million in Q2, dropping the cash reserve from $236 to $156 million, and knowing that they would be better making an SPO before they put those Q2 numbers out.

    They either think they don't/won't need cash from an SPO, or they should do it earlier rather than later. If they think that the Q2 numbers (which they will have a solid preliminary internal estimate quite soon) are an improvement from Q1, and they project improvement to a profitable number within the cash burn window they have, then they should not do an SPO. They quite possibly should use other cash raising methods to make sure they have "ongoing concern" amounts of cash.

    Those would include:
    Dumping inventory.
    Borrowing at unfavorable rates, but for short times.
    Selling equipment and then leasing back that equipment.
    Some other creative financing ... say buy Ucore for a stock swap ... Ucore is a $74 million market cap, so with a 50% premium buy for 45 million shares of MCP. Then use the Alaska $145 million financing in round about way (probably not possible, but who knows).

    They definitely don't need the cash right now. But they can do the math and determine what the conservative cash burn plan is, what the optimistic cash burn plan is, and what the options for additional cash are. An SPO in July is one option. Hopefully they decide against that option. Hopefully the Q2 cash burn is manageable, and the progress towards operational targets is acceptable.

  • Reply to

    I JUST BOUGHT ......................

    by franzemuller Jul 2, 2014 6:41 AM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jul 2, 2014 9:52 AM Flag

    Smart buy. There appears to be NOTHING in the news. The volume was high in pre-market and Motley Fool piggy-backed a slam on a Seeking Alpha slam. But those are just the same OPINIONS they always give, with nothing new added. If I had to guess it was shorts trading the "news" headlines. But since there is no news, it will reverse.

    We know exactly what we knew yesterday. And we still know the blog sites Motley Fool and Seeking Alpha support short arguments.

  • Reply to

    Ha Ha Ha I knew it

    by netanyaty Jun 30, 2014 11:10 PM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jul 2, 2014 9:36 AM Flag

    It is now clear it was a lie by netanyaty.

  • Reply to

    No Announcements until End of July

    by netanyaty Jun 30, 2014 11:01 PM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jul 2, 2014 9:33 AM Flag

    I don't need to read it. You were wrong. LOL.

    "No Announcements until End of July"

    And then a company announcement on July 2nd, as expected.

  • Reply to

    Q2 earnings question?

    by anti.geist Jul 1, 2014 3:33 PM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jul 1, 2014 5:20 PM Flag

    If they are on track to profitability and on track to production targets then the market will react favorably to the Q2 report. I still think the Q1 results were bad, but the disclosure that they were behind schedule on the production goals was the big problem for the market.

    Anyone looking at the business plan understands that they have the construction completed and they have to deliver on the facility production targets: 20,000-ish mt per year production and $6-$7 per kg cost basis. And delivering on those goals will turn the company profitable. It is that simple. They have said over and over that they are going to get to those goals, and yet, here we are, 2nd half of 2014, and we don't know if or when they will get there.

    I thought Q1 would be better than expected and I was wrong. I again see how they could have numbers that exceed the Q2 estimates, but really, it is the progress that once again needs to be shown (although "show me the money" is always important). We need to hear the May, June, and July production, as well as the August production, which they will know by the time of the report (they knew and reported 520 mt for April, at the Q1 report for Jan-Feb-Mar). If the production levels for those months are good, and the cost basis they are at for August is good ... then the stock should soar. Right now the expectation is clearly that they will announce lower progress and probably announce a later expectation for delivery of the goals. Instead of talking about the end of 2014, they will start talking about the first half of 2015.

    I sure hope that is wrong, but the market is pretty clearly negative on the expectation of progress.

  • Reply to

    No Announcements until End of July

    by netanyaty Jun 30, 2014 11:01 PM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jul 1, 2014 5:09 PM Flag

    When did they announce that?

  • Reply to

    Is it possible to know ?

    by papabearrhf Jun 30, 2014 8:21 AM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jun 30, 2014 9:56 AM Flag

    I can't do that with accuracy. Since the only real question is: Is it possible for ME to know tops and bottoms with enough accuracy to make money using that prediction? If someone else can do it, then it is possible for them. I can't. The answer to your question is that I don't know if it is possible. The answer to my question is no it is not possible.

    I will entertain the squeeze question, which I consider spurious. If the price of MCP spikes beyond what might be expected, and it is clear it is a short squeeze, you can (along with everyone else) try to sell before the price collapses from astronomical to merely up. If you sell too soon, you leave money on the table. If you sell too late, the bottom might be falling out. If the price leaps and falls, then leaps and falls, then leaps and falls again, a trailing stop might take you out after just the early exiting shorts exit, but before the next group is forced out.

    You get to make a decision in a rapidly rising market: what price should I sell at? I recall a day when both I and a co-worker owned some Audible stock. They announced what I thought was bad earnings and we commiserated, then the stock took off in pre-market and ran a large percent. He set a limit sell at $11.80 and that filled ... he said that was the target he thought was best. I set a trailing stop of $0.50, and sold at $11.40-ish. Neither of us could predict the top. Both of us saw the spike as a temporary thing to take a profit from. Volume was crazy high. The market gave me a gift IMO. There was nothing to cause the spike, or draw in the daytraders, or to squeeze the shorts. But the price spiked anyway. Both my co-worker and I made more than expected. And we were happy to be rid of a stock that had just badly underperformed and IMO.

  • Reply to

    where are the shorts going to get there cover ?

    by papabearrhf Jun 28, 2014 8:52 AM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jun 29, 2014 12:19 AM Flag

    That is an opportunity cost though. The reality is that a profit was locked in at the time of the short. There are lots of times that a person risks an opportunity for a "sure thing".

    Yes I was kidding about the shares all being 1 share swapped. The point is that it does not take insiders releasing shares, it only takes shares selling in the market.

    And yes we have had the disagreement about whether the convertible bond holders have shorted any stock. I have said (and shown math) that it made good sense for them to do so. I have no proof they did, just as I have no proof the the short interest was more than one share being moved repeatedly.

    You always conclude that you know my position and always conclude I am not long. I am long. Your opinion is fine with me. You don't know me, and (hopefully) I don't know you. I'm not sure how you black and white opinion helps you, but have at it.

    Unless YOU recognize that the places that shorts can get shares are the ordinary stock market, the ordinary options market, the ordinary (convertible) bond market, and possibly other places, then you will constantly mislead yourself about unavailability of shares to cover.

  • Reply to

    Deleted Post by CB

    by votingmachine Jun 28, 2014 2:39 PM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jun 28, 2014 2:44 PM Flag

    I can see what I posted using the search function:
    You collect the $0.60 per share as soon as you sell the contract. You must maintain the $3 per share to buy the assigned shares at all times as you might have the contract exercised at anytime.

    The money is not free. They very clearly spell out the risks. You could have Molycorp declare bankruptcy, and be assigned shares at $3 that are worthless. That would represent a $2.40 per share loss. For taking on that risk, you get paid $0.60 per share.

    I agree that the contract is worth selling. The risk is small. But the fact is that you are the insurance for someone thru 2015, thru the next 19 months. You do have to keep the $3 per share exercise price in my account so it ties up funds there. (That is how the return is only 20%)

    Go for it if you like it. But it has risks and rewards. You can earn a 12% annually on the trade of selling the contracts. Obviously Shock Exchange with his bankruptcy will happen, it is just not imminent, would never take that trade.

    People love these trades until the day they get assigned shares with a huge loss.

    After all, why not the $4 options. The bid is $1.01. So you get $1 for tieing up $4 for 19 months, a higher return. $5 Puts are bid a $1.52, a whopping 30% net over 19 months.

    Do what you want. Those are reasonable positions. Just not for me.

  • votingmachine by votingmachine Jun 28, 2014 2:39 PM Flag

    If you google: Commit To Buy Molycorp At $3, Earn 20%
    you will find a Forbes article advising to sell the $3 strike Puts, for $0.60 per share. That Put costs $1 per share now, representing a loss of $0.40 per share.

    I searched the MCP MB, because I recall some discussion of that article ... it looked REALLLY dumb at the time. Now I see that the thread topic was started by CB-CB and has been deleted. That really gets annoying when things are deleted like that.

    I thought the trade was fairly safe, and so far, you can't have had shares assigned for a total loss. But like any investment, there is always a risk.

  • Reply to

    where are the shorts going to get there cover ?

    by papabearrhf Jun 28, 2014 8:52 AM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jun 28, 2014 2:30 PM Flag

    Every share short was from a lending account. Theoretically, the same share could be sold, then borrowed from the next account and then borrowed again. There might be only one share, re-borrowed and re-sold 70 million times!. And then that same share has to be bought, returned, bought, returned, bought, returned, etc, 70 million times!

    If the reverse path is over time, like the forward path was, then it is just ordinary market demand, over a long time. If the reverse path is constrained in time and price, then of course, a short squeeze is possible. And every stock that has a high short interest has people predicting a short squeeze. As you have, ad naseum. If it happens, that's great. Good times for all longs. But no one should predict it is inevitable. It is actually very unlikely.

    I've also reasoned before that many of the shares are connected to the convertible bond offerings, with the bond conversion representing the method of covering. If I had a long call for 100 shares at $7, and a short position of 100 shares, I don't care if the stock price goes to $100. I can cover for $7. And one set of the convertible bonds convert at $7-ish. Now it is better to cover at $4 than $7, but if you have that backstop, you are NEVER going to be squeezed.

  • Reply to

    where are the shorts going to get there cover ?

    by papabearrhf Jun 28, 2014 8:52 AM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jun 28, 2014 2:16 PM Flag

    That is not quite my position. I maintain that when a share is borrowed and sold short, that single share represents two interested owners: the one with the lending account and the one with the buying account. Both of those parties think they are shareholders, and from a practical point of view, both are shareholders. So in that sense, every share sold short is in two places: the account that loaned the share and the account that bought it. If the share was not loaned then the account that bought a share, would have bought a non-borrowed share.

    If you consider it that way (and I do), then the number of shares OWNED by the market is the full share count PLUS the shares short. The shares short were SOLD short to shareholders.

    A short covers by buying shares in the market. The loaned shares are then returned to the lending account, where that shareholder never knows if the shares were loaned or not. It is true that to buy shares in the market someone must sell. But that is what a market is: it is a place where people buy and sell shares. If there is no one selling, the bid has to go up, or the ask come down.

    We just disagree about short covering. Shorts cover when they want to cover, by buying in a market that sells shares. And certainly, if they ALL want to cover at the same time, then there is a problem. But since that so rarely happens, it is rational not to expect it.

    You are correct that 165 million trading volume could be 165 different shares transferred, or the same share transferred 165 million times. It really doesn't matter though. The point is that if the price goes up, people sell. You can hypothesize about what if no one sells, but people ALWAYS sell.

  • Reply to

    where are the shorts going to get there cover ?

    by papabearrhf Jun 28, 2014 8:52 AM
    votingmachine votingmachine Jun 28, 2014 9:45 AM Flag

    They will buy them in the market at the market price. The price point in the market might be higher or lower. Assuming that there will be share scarcity, even with higher prices is generally not true. Higher prices lead to supply of shares into the market. Since May 14th, 165,592,900 shares have traded under $3. If the price moved to $4, there would be many people eager to sell their positions for a 20-day, 33% gain.

    Short squeezes are beyond exceedingly rare. Stocks have prices. When prices soar, people sell. A short squeeze requires that prices soar AND that people don't sell.

    Short covering will eventually add to the market demand. The thing that will move the stock price is business success. If that fundamental is there then the price will begin moving. Short covering will be slow as shorts give up slowly, not fast and panicky. The reversal of market sentiment and added demand will favor longs, but obviously, I consider that dependent on the business plan actually succeeding.

    I think it will, but I've been wrong before. And right before also. I'm just an anonymous Yahoo MB poster who enjoys MB's. My disagreement with your short squeeze suppositions is JMO.

2.15-0.01(-0.42%)1:42 PMEDT

Trending Tickers

Trending Tickers features significant U.S. stocks showing the most dramatic increase in user interest in Yahoo Finance in the previous hour over historic norms. The list is limited to those equities which trade at least 100,000 shares on an average day and have a market cap of more than $300 million.