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Southern Copper Corp. Message Board

warmcamp 49 posts  |  Last Activity: 18 hours ago Member since: Oct 15, 2003
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  • Reply to

    likely finishing 2014 at the low of year

    by sakhaneft Dec 24, 2014 9:22 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp 18 hours ago Flag

    I don't think that the best time to buy comes when "things are at their bleakest". It would be correct to say that it is perfect if you buy when it's the bleakest and, voila, next day things start improving. That would be the best, but unfortunately, it includes the second part (improving) which timing is unknown. There are also situations when everything looks already the bleakest and still tomorrow comes and situation continues deteriorating.

    In my opinion, the best way to buy (i.e. invest) is to do it based on fundamentals, assuming that you consider to invest for long time. In this respect, one should find at least some fundamentals supporting the buying proposal. Yes, it is true, that things can change suddenly and fundamental picture can be deceptive and even the most anti-fundamental buy can yield the best results and so on. That's all true, but still buying based on fundamentals (i.e. on numbers and facts) has better chance to succeed, imho.

  • Reply to

    likely finishing 2014 at the low of year

    by sakhaneft Dec 24, 2014 9:22 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp Dec 25, 2014 3:00 PM Flag

    Yes, management had real chance to look like geniuses now, if they would keep the hedge. As it stands now, silver price doesn't leave any room for profitable silver mining. It is a race for survival. It is possible that silver miners have at least 1-2 years ahead of low silver prices. Hopefully, management will admit reality and re-consider dividend and production policies.

  • Reply to

    PAAS just filed for a large buyback of shares

    by dlamich Dec 17, 2014 9:17 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Dec 22, 2014 7:20 PM Flag

    The problem with this strategy is that capital investment cannot be stopped. Check last quarter earning release. Company spent $26M on ongoing capex, i.e. capital needed to support existing operations. That's amount that cannot be spared.

    Other capital expenses had been cut to the bone temporarily. Company spent meager $3M on Colorada and Dolores expansion in Q3. It will not be the same in Q4. They plan to spend $18M in Q4 and project development (Colorada, Dolores) will require higher amounts in 2015.

    So far, silver price behaves in the most disappointing fashion and if company really spends cash on buyback and/or continues to pay fat dividend, then it may backfire later. No one knows, actually, how long bear market will continue. PAAS management does not know it too. They could plan capital moves taking into account this lack of visibility.

    PAAS was lucky that bear market beginning caught them with huge hoard of cash on hands; it was, by the way, a pure coinsidence, result of Navidad stoppage. This cash could be used to make business stronger when bear ends. It would be disappointing if company wastes this luck.

  • Reply to

    Weird Volume

    by rocket_scientist_guy Dec 19, 2014 5:24 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Dec 19, 2014 6:16 PM Flag

    Nothing weird; it happens every option expiration day.

  • warmcamp warmcamp Dec 16, 2014 8:27 PM Flag

    Honolulu! It is terrific to talk to you again.
    I had to go through your messages trying to find a place to reply. I didn't post on EXK board for more than a year, before the recent message, and, frankly speaking, I didn't want to post there again. Someone has very thin skin over there :) and taking into account certain losses in share price... it would be too cruel :). Needless to say, I am not looking for EXK.

    So I went further and, probably, next message was from RBY board. At least, Johnny participated in the thread. Send my best regards to him, please. Again, RBY is not a place where I would like to post often :)

    Hopefully, this place, MUX board, fits a bit better for the reply. Firstly, I am not looking for PM miners now. The whole market looks full of interesting plays. Take oil sector, for example, it is very challenging now. I hope you are busy too and making lot of good trades. Good luck with your MUX purchase and maybe I will join you in PM trades some day in future.

  • Reply to

    Green On A Red Day

    by tthemainman38 May 11, 2013 2:01 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Dec 15, 2014 7:15 PM Flag

    Unfortunately, "so-so assets" continue to prove themselves as too important factor. This thread and accompanying discussions had place in spring 2013, about time when PM bear market just started in earnest. It should be noted that for long time EXK performed better than it could be expected based on silver price alone. Again, I tend to believe that "good management" was a factor behind it.

    In any case, good management cannot fix silver price and it cannot convert so-so assets to first class. Share price was about $4, after initial bear market shock. It is under $2 now, because bear market shocks come again and again and their impact is accumulated.

    Please, do not consider this message as an attack and accept my best wishes regarding your EXK and other investments. Also, just in case someone gets nervous :), I don't plan to start posting on this board in any consistent way. Good luck.

  • Reply to

    Deflation - Gold Price - Gold Production Cost

    by mddream2020 Nov 28, 2014 3:40 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 28, 2014 6:47 PM Flag

    Deflation is an artificial term; it is used, mostly, as an euphemism, masking government inability or lack of desire to follow free-market policies. Oil price goes down now because of trivial oversupply, it has nothing to do with "deflation", though ironically it reflects fact that most of world oil is produced in countries far away from market economy.

    Gold production cost goes down now because of lower oil (fuel) price. Also, gold producers make efforts to cut costs, e.g. by high-grading or cutting exploration expenses. It is temporary measures, base costs (labor, supply, etc.) don't go down and, obviously enough, taxes and royalties do not go down too; they present major part of actual costs.

    Finally, gold price is not defined by gold production cost, not even in long term. It is one of basic differences between gold and other commodities.

  • warmcamp warmcamp Nov 28, 2014 6:34 PM Flag

    Oil (i.e. fuel) is not a part of shipper's operating expenses, if you talk about shipping company like DSX. Fuel expense is carried by charterer, ship owner doesn't pay anything. It can be speculated that cheap oil is still good because it leaves more money in charterer's pockets thus making it kinder and so it can share few bucks with ship owner. You see, it doesn't sound too business-like and even if it plays some role then it is small one.

    It can be assumed, in more serious way, that low oil price is beneficial to China, because it is a big oil importer. It seems to be more serious. Most of dry-bulk cargoes goes to China and so strength or weakness in Chinese economy is the main factor behind dry-bulk shipper fortunes.

  • Reply to

    earnings will come out when?

    by du_dilegence Nov 13, 2014 8:47 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 13, 2014 9:04 AM Flag

    Earnings will be released today, after closing; probably, very late. Check it tomorrow morning.

  • Reply to

    Earnings Will Suprise....................

    by greatgabbo Nov 12, 2014 12:36 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 13, 2014 9:03 AM Flag

    I meant average selling silver price for Q3 comparing to present silver price. Many silver companies already reported earnings and their releases included the number. For example, CDE posted $19.46, HL posted $18.53, EXK - $18.78, AG - 19.10, etc.

    By the way, average LME spot price was $19.74; it is also mentioned in some releases. Present LME silver price is $15.73. It is about 20% lower. Yes, it is too early to say whether average LME price for Q4 will be higher or lower than $15.73. However, Q4 is already half done, i.e. present price provides good estimate.

  • Reply to

    dsx is going parabolic!!!!!!!!

    by zorbathegeek930 Nov 3, 2014 4:52 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 12, 2014 4:57 PM Flag

    Trading bulk grain trade could present you with simple fact that Valemax ships won't be used for grain trade. Ultra-big ships are good for very few, very bulky routes. The rest goes to more flexible vehicles.
    Saying it in general, this world will always have room for both globalization and specialization.

  • Reply to

    dividend cut is my guess

    by sakhaneft Nov 11, 2014 6:26 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 12, 2014 4:53 PM Flag

    I think that market will definitely react to any dividend-related news, cut or cancel. Most of trading is computer-based and so it is driven (programmed by) formal criteria. Dividend numbers are on of them.

  • Reply to

    Earnings Will Suprise....................

    by greatgabbo Nov 12, 2014 12:36 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 12, 2014 4:51 PM Flag

    There are different ways how to calculate "all-in cost". Initially, when this term was introduced couple years ago, the idea was to get rid off blatant misrepresentations included in previously used "cash cost" and present something actually reflecting real cost of doing business.

    It was a noble idea, but, naturally enough miners, started to "adopt" this term making it less and less correlated with real cost. It is quite possible that in few more years "all-in cost" will become no better than "cash cost", if used for serious investment purposes.

    Regarding earning estimates, it would have to be taken as success if PAAS could be able to make 2-3 cents as it's written in present analyst estimates. Why? Read preceding earning release and see numbers there. Anyway, silver price is currently more than 20% lower than it was in Q3. It makes Q3 earnings awfully obsolete, just in case 2-3 cents could be perceived as a great number.

    In general, when you estimate stock value it makes sense to base it on stock/company fundamentals, not on perception of message board postings. 2-3 message board posters can be bearish or bullish on stock price and, often enough, it has nothing to do with real factors affecting the same price.

  • Reply to

    paas should drop to 3 like cde

    by goldnogood Nov 10, 2014 12:21 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 10, 2014 6:25 PM Flag

    PAAS is substantially stronger than CDE; balance sheet, cash, etc. It means that PAAS holders could start worry about dropping to $3 when CDE would be already in pennies. Needless to say, drop to $3 is not the only risk here. If it drops to e.g. $6-7; it's still painful.

  • Reply to

    Not enough...

    by thestockmaven Nov 10, 2014 6:11 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 10, 2014 6:23 PM Flag

    Many retail investors made wrong choice with this stock (and other gold stocks too), and too many of them blame Letwin for this. Fair? If you know or knew so well that Letwin is the worst CEO around (quite mild assessment, if based on your messages) then why you bought this stock?

  • Reply to

    Wow down $1 what a #$%$ company and #$%$ stock

    by johnnywvw54 Nov 10, 2014 3:51 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 10, 2014 6:21 PM Flag

    It simply gave up last week gains (made Thursday and Friday). In general, PM stocks have lost fundamental grounds; they run on hot air. One day it can lift them; another day they drop back to earth or even underground. The latter happens more and more frequently. Fundamentals (or lack of them) transpire in longer term.

  • Reply to

    Big uptrend next week

    by warmcamp Nov 1, 2014 9:34 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 8, 2014 5:29 PM Flag

    My apologies. I was too optimistic, mildly speaking, about last week. Perfect market timing in never achievable :)
    I still believe that stock is grossly undervalued taking into account present BDI rates. Hopefully, shipping rates do not go down and DSX starts re-chartering ships at profitable levels; present BDI level suggests it.

  • warmcamp warmcamp Nov 8, 2014 5:15 PM Flag

    It is, usually, Ok to accuse companies/management when they miss earnings, i.e. deliver actual result less than their own guidance. On the contrary, accusing management in delivering guidance for next quarter less than analyst projections is too harsh approach. Management cannot be responsible for analyst projections about future quarters.

    By the way, company guidance for next quarter is still about 10% better on year-to-year basis, i.e. comparing with actual revenue from December quarter 2013. KLIC business is seasonal, fact of life, and still they should be able to avoid losses in the coming quarter. In other words, they don't project disaster; actually they project year-to-year improvement. Forward guidance for 2015, given in general way, looks strong and anyway company is fairly profitable and balance sheet is exceptionally strong.

    Probably, analysts took too optimistic approach and company needs a bit more time to reach their projections. In any case, this business is growing and so it makes sense for investors, imho, to continue sailing with this management. Please, note that Lemelson active stock promotion caused share price to go up strong in past few months; reasonable post-earning correction was overdue.

  • Reply to

    Q3 results

    by warmcamp Sep 28, 2014 8:22 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 2, 2014 3:27 PM Flag

    I agree with some of your points. For example, 7 cents/share is too small to justify $10 share price. By the way, I have serious doubts that they make 7 cents. It would be very strange if they could. I am less willing to accept any direct links between rise of statism and dire situation for PM miners. You know, every political factor has limits. PM miners are in trouble because they cannot produce silver with profit, i.e. it is pure economics. It is true that in some corners of this planet, governments raised mining levies to obscenely high levels making any mining there stupid. It didn't prevent miners from trying, but still it is just a great example of malinvestment, nothing more. On the other hand, some places still respect business rights and silver mining could proceed there, unless it is not profitable.

    Returning back to PAAS, or better say, to beaten-down sectors, at some point earnings stop to be a decisive factor there, mostly because they don't exist anymore. Investment in beaten-down sectors is guided mostly by risk considerations. It is very costly to invest in a stock that can capsize in soon enough. On the other hand, if stock won't capsize (i.e. if you have credible argument that it won't) then one may start thinking about entry point. Please note, in most cases good entry points in beaten-down sectors are achieved when earnings do not appear yet.

    By the way, imagine situation with PAAS having only two operating mines, Colorada and Dolores, both quite profitable at current silver price and still $300M cash in treasury. Would it be called "buy" at the point? In my opinion, yes. The main danger for PAAS is not that silver price is low now. The main danger is that they will continue burning cash (on dividend and support for money-losing operations). If this danger could be eliminated or, at least, diminished, then...

    operations) for too long. If this danger could be eliminated or, at least, diminished, then...

  • Reply to

    Q3 results

    by warmcamp Sep 28, 2014 8:22 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 2, 2014 2:21 PM Flag

    PM miners raise funds from general public, not from venture capital. General public will be always attracted to invest in gold/silver rather than e.g. to hi-tech. It is a very simple notion: most people know nothing about hi-tech products, at least before they hit department store counters, while every Joe and his cousin know that gold and silver are valuable. That's the historical advantage of public awareness that gold/silver has in comparison with other industries. In this light, present situation with PM miners is not totally hopeless. The most blatant cases of malinvestment will be punished, but some miners will survive and in due time general public will start pouring money in gold/silver again. People never change.

    Returning back to the first message of this thread: analysts have already reduced earning estimate number from 5 to 3 cents. Further reductions are underway, imho. PAAS will suffer along all other silver stocks, but it still has the "light at the end of the tunnel". This stock is stronger financially than peers. It can last longer and, inevitably, this sector will have its day to turn around.

    It is impossible to predict exactly when turnaround comes and most indirect indicators point to down now. However, one should never believe in own infallibility, i.e. even if you made the best analysis (very commended mode of behavior) and this analysis results in bad conclusions, you can still try to see the "silver line" (no pun intended), just in case the analysis is wrong. Every analysis can be wrong, even if it is a very good analysis.

    One of the ways to improve analytical accuracy is to make it flexible: it is not enough to say that stock should not be bought under present conditions; one could also define how conditions should change to make buy possible. In this respect, if PAAS makes serious cuts in dividend or production or, even better, in both, then it could be sufficient to buy this stock. Needless to say, it is a personal opinion.

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