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Southern Copper Corp. Message Board

warmcamp 35 posts  |  Last Activity: Jan 14, 2015 5:49 PM Member since: Oct 15, 2003
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  • Reply to

    Not enough...

    by thestockmaven Nov 10, 2014 6:11 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 10, 2014 6:23 PM Flag

    Many retail investors made wrong choice with this stock (and other gold stocks too), and too many of them blame Letwin for this. Fair? If you know or knew so well that Letwin is the worst CEO around (quite mild assessment, if based on your messages) then why you bought this stock?

  • warmcamp by warmcamp Dec 31, 2014 2:59 PM Flag

    Ladies and Gents,

    It is the most peculiar fact that my alias continues living actively on this message board without my participation. First of all, I have to express my gratitude to distinguished participants remembering my past contributions and continuing referencing my thoughts and intentions. Please note, however, that your references cannot be considered as definitive proofs of my thoughts and intentions.

    Also, I feel obliged to explain that I do not follow RBY and great majority of other gold miners at the moment. I do not have any gold mining stocks in my portfolio and, frankly, I am not looking right now to add them. It can be said that my investment interests and preferences are in different market sectors. It does not mean, by the way, any sinister implications to gold mining. I have to mention this only because it may help someone to cure own obsession and/or at least see that I am not obsessed with little details of gold mining such as linear forecasting and so on.

    Please, accept my best wishes for happy and healthy holiday season, great New Year and success with all your investments that obviously includes this stock. I would also suggest that in case you have questions, you could go to one of the boards where I still post and talk to me there. Good luck.

    PS: my best intention would be avoiding more posts to this thread or any other threads of this message board.
    Also, it must be added here that my sincere wishes of success do not cover Sewells ans Piopuke. The reason is clear enough.

  • Reply to

    paas should drop to 3 like cde

    by goldnogood Nov 10, 2014 12:21 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 10, 2014 6:25 PM Flag

    PAAS is substantially stronger than CDE; balance sheet, cash, etc. It means that PAAS holders could start worry about dropping to $3 when CDE would be already in pennies. Needless to say, drop to $3 is not the only risk here. If it drops to e.g. $6-7; it's still painful.

  • Reply to

    A walk down memory lane with PAAS

    by johnnywvw54 Nov 1, 2014 4:07 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 1, 2014 4:45 PM Flag

    Your message missed few important numbers: earnings, cash flow, market cap. It is not right to talk about share price without acknowledging them.
    For example, present market cap is about $1.5B. I didn't check any numbers from 1997, in any case it was too many years ago. However, I may guess that market cap was substantially lower that time.

    If your message meant that PAAS share price is unfairly low now then, sorry, it would be very hard to prove it using present numbers. Earnings are negative and cash flow too and silver price continue streaming downward. That's the reality. The only consolation is that PAAS is better than peers like CDE or AG, not even mentioning silver juniors. It will not go to zero in near and/or mid-term while many other silver stocks will.

  • Reply to

    Earnings Will Suprise....................

    by greatgabbo Nov 12, 2014 12:36 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 12, 2014 4:51 PM Flag

    There are different ways how to calculate "all-in cost". Initially, when this term was introduced couple years ago, the idea was to get rid off blatant misrepresentations included in previously used "cash cost" and present something actually reflecting real cost of doing business.

    It was a noble idea, but, naturally enough miners, started to "adopt" this term making it less and less correlated with real cost. It is quite possible that in few more years "all-in cost" will become no better than "cash cost", if used for serious investment purposes.

    Regarding earning estimates, it would have to be taken as success if PAAS could be able to make 2-3 cents as it's written in present analyst estimates. Why? Read preceding earning release and see numbers there. Anyway, silver price is currently more than 20% lower than it was in Q3. It makes Q3 earnings awfully obsolete, just in case 2-3 cents could be perceived as a great number.

    In general, when you estimate stock value it makes sense to base it on stock/company fundamentals, not on perception of message board postings. 2-3 message board posters can be bearish or bullish on stock price and, often enough, it has nothing to do with real factors affecting the same price.

  • BDI rates indicate it. Probably, share price was hold down last week for accumulation purposes. Waiting for earning release is not the best policy, imho. DSX earnings are well predictable, anyway.

  • Reply to

    earnings will come out when?

    by du_dilegence Nov 13, 2014 8:47 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 13, 2014 9:04 AM Flag

    Earnings will be released today, after closing; probably, very late. Check it tomorrow morning.

  • Reply to

    Earnings Will Suprise....................

    by greatgabbo Nov 12, 2014 12:36 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 13, 2014 9:03 AM Flag

    I meant average selling silver price for Q3 comparing to present silver price. Many silver companies already reported earnings and their releases included the number. For example, CDE posted $19.46, HL posted $18.53, EXK - $18.78, AG - 19.10, etc.

    By the way, average LME spot price was $19.74; it is also mentioned in some releases. Present LME silver price is $15.73. It is about 20% lower. Yes, it is too early to say whether average LME price for Q4 will be higher or lower than $15.73. However, Q4 is already half done, i.e. present price provides good estimate.

  • warmcamp warmcamp Dec 16, 2014 8:27 PM Flag

    Honolulu! It is terrific to talk to you again.
    I had to go through your messages trying to find a place to reply. I didn't post on EXK board for more than a year, before the recent message, and, frankly speaking, I didn't want to post there again. Someone has very thin skin over there :) and taking into account certain losses in share price... it would be too cruel :). Needless to say, I am not looking for EXK.

    So I went further and, probably, next message was from RBY board. At least, Johnny participated in the thread. Send my best regards to him, please. Again, RBY is not a place where I would like to post often :)

    Hopefully, this place, MUX board, fits a bit better for the reply. Firstly, I am not looking for PM miners now. The whole market looks full of interesting plays. Take oil sector, for example, it is very challenging now. I hope you are busy too and making lot of good trades. Good luck with your MUX purchase and maybe I will join you in PM trades some day in future.

  • warmcamp by warmcamp Oct 28, 2014 5:39 PM Flag

    It seems that DB analyst upgraded DSX right before serious drop in BDI and then downgraded DSX right before serious jump in BDI. Talk about bad coincidence.

    In any case, present shipping rates promise DSX smooth sailing to 2015 with earnings gradually closing negative gap and starting to grow positive. It seems that dry-bulk is alive, i.e. companies where management didn't play black jack with markets. On the other hand, ironically, DRYS diversification into oil looks worse with every day passed.

  • Reply to

    Q3 results

    by warmcamp Sep 28, 2014 8:22 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 2, 2014 2:21 PM Flag

    PM miners raise funds from general public, not from venture capital. General public will be always attracted to invest in gold/silver rather than e.g. to hi-tech. It is a very simple notion: most people know nothing about hi-tech products, at least before they hit department store counters, while every Joe and his cousin know that gold and silver are valuable. That's the historical advantage of public awareness that gold/silver has in comparison with other industries. In this light, present situation with PM miners is not totally hopeless. The most blatant cases of malinvestment will be punished, but some miners will survive and in due time general public will start pouring money in gold/silver again. People never change.

    Returning back to the first message of this thread: analysts have already reduced earning estimate number from 5 to 3 cents. Further reductions are underway, imho. PAAS will suffer along all other silver stocks, but it still has the "light at the end of the tunnel". This stock is stronger financially than peers. It can last longer and, inevitably, this sector will have its day to turn around.

    It is impossible to predict exactly when turnaround comes and most indirect indicators point to down now. However, one should never believe in own infallibility, i.e. even if you made the best analysis (very commended mode of behavior) and this analysis results in bad conclusions, you can still try to see the "silver line" (no pun intended), just in case the analysis is wrong. Every analysis can be wrong, even if it is a very good analysis.

    One of the ways to improve analytical accuracy is to make it flexible: it is not enough to say that stock should not be bought under present conditions; one could also define how conditions should change to make buy possible. In this respect, if PAAS makes serious cuts in dividend or production or, even better, in both, then it could be sufficient to buy this stock. Needless to say, it is a personal opinion.

  • Reply to

    380M in cash. Why not just buy CDE?

    by esyslpr Oct 28, 2014 12:07 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Oct 28, 2014 5:40 PM Flag

    Buying CDE means acquiring few unprofitable mines and taking on $200M debt on top of it. Realistically speaking (i.e. assuming we already let imagination run wild to consider this acquisition), PAAS should pay nothing and CDE would have to come up with some change to compensate PAAS for performing in white knight role.

  • warmcamp warmcamp Nov 8, 2014 5:15 PM Flag

    It is, usually, Ok to accuse companies/management when they miss earnings, i.e. deliver actual result less than their own guidance. On the contrary, accusing management in delivering guidance for next quarter less than analyst projections is too harsh approach. Management cannot be responsible for analyst projections about future quarters.

    By the way, company guidance for next quarter is still about 10% better on year-to-year basis, i.e. comparing with actual revenue from December quarter 2013. KLIC business is seasonal, fact of life, and still they should be able to avoid losses in the coming quarter. In other words, they don't project disaster; actually they project year-to-year improvement. Forward guidance for 2015, given in general way, looks strong and anyway company is fairly profitable and balance sheet is exceptionally strong.

    Probably, analysts took too optimistic approach and company needs a bit more time to reach their projections. In any case, this business is growing and so it makes sense for investors, imho, to continue sailing with this management. Please, note that Lemelson active stock promotion caused share price to go up strong in past few months; reasonable post-earning correction was overdue.

  • warmcamp warmcamp Oct 28, 2014 5:42 PM Flag

    Firstly, it is not "couple bankers". It is the whole financial world; lot of various players. Secondly, it is the real world and so... what's the point to call it ridiculous or unfair. Either you go with real market or market goes without you.

  • I didn't read new technical reports submitted by PAAS last week regarding Peruvian operations. If someone did it then share your knowledge, please.

    It is possible that filing of these documents, reflecting new silver price realities, indicates that company prepares to close these mines. By pure mining/geological factors, Peruvian operations are the most vulnerable to low silver prices and if company decides to cut production then these two mines could go down first.

    In long-term, assuming that silver bear market continues, PAAS could end up with only two Mexican mines, Colorada and Dolores, that could be profitable even with silver in low teens. Supporting Argentinean operations could make some sense in case, eventually, political situation changes and company would be able to proceed on Navidad.

  • Reply to

    Q3 results

    by warmcamp Sep 28, 2014 8:22 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 2, 2014 3:27 PM Flag

    I agree with some of your points. For example, 7 cents/share is too small to justify $10 share price. By the way, I have serious doubts that they make 7 cents. It would be very strange if they could. I am less willing to accept any direct links between rise of statism and dire situation for PM miners. You know, every political factor has limits. PM miners are in trouble because they cannot produce silver with profit, i.e. it is pure economics. It is true that in some corners of this planet, governments raised mining levies to obscenely high levels making any mining there stupid. It didn't prevent miners from trying, but still it is just a great example of malinvestment, nothing more. On the other hand, some places still respect business rights and silver mining could proceed there, unless it is not profitable.

    Returning back to PAAS, or better say, to beaten-down sectors, at some point earnings stop to be a decisive factor there, mostly because they don't exist anymore. Investment in beaten-down sectors is guided mostly by risk considerations. It is very costly to invest in a stock that can capsize in soon enough. On the other hand, if stock won't capsize (i.e. if you have credible argument that it won't) then one may start thinking about entry point. Please note, in most cases good entry points in beaten-down sectors are achieved when earnings do not appear yet.

    By the way, imagine situation with PAAS having only two operating mines, Colorada and Dolores, both quite profitable at current silver price and still $300M cash in treasury. Would it be called "buy" at the point? In my opinion, yes. The main danger for PAAS is not that silver price is low now. The main danger is that they will continue burning cash (on dividend and support for money-losing operations). If this danger could be eliminated or, at least, diminished, then...

    operations) for too long. If this danger could be eliminated or, at least, diminished, then...

  • Reply to

    capitulation time

    by hourlyrate2013 Nov 1, 2014 10:20 AM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 1, 2014 12:28 PM Flag

    PM equities suffer collateral damage; they are on opposite side of economic cycle. It means that no "manipulators" responsible for the crash. It's normal economic and market development.
    April 2013 was the most definite signal of bad things coming to this sector. The best investors left before April. The mainstream (sane retail) left right after April. It was suicidal to touch PM equities after the April and it is still the same around. Even the best, relatively stronger, PM equities, such as PAAS, are good now for only very speculative, risky plays.

  • Reply to

    Weird Volume

    by rocket_scientist_guy Dec 19, 2014 5:24 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Dec 19, 2014 6:16 PM Flag

    Nothing weird; it happens every option expiration day.

  • Reply to

    Green On A Red Day

    by tthemainman38 May 11, 2013 2:01 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Dec 15, 2014 7:15 PM Flag

    Unfortunately, "so-so assets" continue to prove themselves as too important factor. This thread and accompanying discussions had place in spring 2013, about time when PM bear market just started in earnest. It should be noted that for long time EXK performed better than it could be expected based on silver price alone. Again, I tend to believe that "good management" was a factor behind it.

    In any case, good management cannot fix silver price and it cannot convert so-so assets to first class. Share price was about $4, after initial bear market shock. It is under $2 now, because bear market shocks come again and again and their impact is accumulated.

    Please, do not consider this message as an attack and accept my best wishes regarding your EXK and other investments. Also, just in case someone gets nervous :), I don't plan to start posting on this board in any consistent way. Good luck.

  • Reply to

    Wow down $1 what a #$%$ company and #$%$ stock

    by johnnywvw54 Nov 10, 2014 3:51 PM
    warmcamp warmcamp Nov 10, 2014 6:21 PM Flag

    It simply gave up last week gains (made Thursday and Friday). In general, PM stocks have lost fundamental grounds; they run on hot air. One day it can lift them; another day they drop back to earth or even underground. The latter happens more and more frequently. Fundamentals (or lack of them) transpire in longer term.

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