"Can you explain how that happened? How can you make money before you produce?"
Good question I'm waiting for you to answer it. It didn't come Europe, GM been losing money there."
Is that Jeyeian for where did the initial investment come from? Is that what your trying to say? If so, I suppose the US although you seem to have made yet another pointless remark.
"Gm Treasury lost more more money in one year, than they gave the UAW over an entire 5 year contract."
Explain this. I'll get back to you later today. Not something I can do on my phone.
" As such the notion of increasing wages in Mexico is not just a UAW thing, it was a US, Mexico, and Canada Government thing. "
They tricked our government...can you imagine? Think Iran. Trump is right about one thing, we are lousy negotiators and enforcers of our agreements.
"All but the $12 million in stock she is holding. Again I cut and pasted a news wire story"
Let's say you have $100K in the bank. Let's also say you were paid $50K for working last year. How much would be on your W-2? Starting to get it a little?
"No, Remember Ross Perot said listen to that sucking sound. Maybe this is why Roger paid to get him off the board."
Is that really why you think GM bought out Ross Perot? Don't you think that GM wanted NAFTA?
"I know the money was made in China and Mexico before they was producing."
Can you explain how that happened? How can you make money before you produce?
"Most came after NAFTA."
Yep, so what.
"But with the same breath wngr said you can't news wires stories about CEO pay. By 2009 GM was broke here but was investing $Billions in China and Mexico. The Union hasn't changed but now GM is making most of its profits here "
That's the stupidest argument you've ever put forth Jeye.
First, I actually showed you where you can find the actual compensation paid to Mary Barra in the Proxy statement instead of the misleading numbers published by the press. I ACTUALLY DIRECTED YOU TO THE SPOT.
Second, do you doubt that jobs are going to Mexico? Surely you can't be that ignorant and uninformed. Even the UAW is saying that if you were able to read the article. I'm just suggesting that you don't believe everything in the press, I'm suggesting that where factual information is available you learn to find it and have someone read it to you.
Third, you don't know how much money was made in the US unless you are a very highly placed GM executive in disguise. All you know is how much money is made in North America. Mexico is also in North America. But don't trust me, look it up on Wikipedia. North America includes Canada and Mexico Jeye. As the UAW is finding out, automakers are building in Mexico and selling in the US more and more. Is it a coincidence that they are making more money in North America than before?
Fourth, of course they were (and are) investing billions in China and Mexico. They are doing that at the expense of the US. Know why? Think about it, I'm sure you can figure it out given enough time. It's time that the UAW admit that THEY are the people responsible for jobs leaving the US. They might as well admit it, everyone except you already knows that.
Google "UAW President Bemoans Work Moving to Mexico to Cut Labor Costs" by David Welch in Bloomberg Business today.
Many predicted this, it wasn't hard to see coming. The UAW's answer to being non-competitive is to raise labor costs in Mexico. It won't happen. The unions there understand much better than the UAW how the world works.
"America had the most serious revenue problem that has been encountered since 1929 and lets hope we never get the idiots back in office ever again that put us there"
At that moment in time, i.e., Jan 20, 2009, I agree. The economy wasn't functioning.
That's no longer true. $3.5 trillion ought to be enough to run the Federal government but we intend to spend over $4 trillion for the first time in history this year. That doesn't sound a little stupid to you?
The root cause of the 2008-9 economic collapse was the housing crisis, can we agree on that? If so, I think we can rest assured that it won't recur since both Barnie Frank and Christopher Dodd have been forced to retire into private life where they can't harm anything else.
I know, Wall Street had a part in this too, and that would be correct.
"America need tax payers to pay for the bad policies of the Gov and Business looking for cheap labor outside of America."
Are you sure you're not a Democrat? America doesn't have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem. You sound more and more like Bernie every day.
"Thanks, Wngr, I appreciate it. Think I'll take the plunge and buy back in at this price."
That's great...just don't use my 'analysis' as the reason for buying. Like I said, I'm out of my swim lane talking about stock prices.
"He had the VEBA deal in place, changes in hour GM paid overtime."
The VEBA deal was a good idea but I don't know how it was EVER going to be funded. He waited too long...GM was too low on cash when it was executed. As far as the OT pay...too little too late, it was directionally correct, but not enough. That's exactly what I was talking about, they weren't revolutionary in nature. He needed to restructure the company including debt.
Adrian is right about declaring bankruptcy earlier. In the beginning of 2008, or even late 2007, serious actions were needed to restructure the company. Declaring bankruptcy then would have allowed the elimination of most debt, the elimination of pensions, the leaning down of US operations (exactly like the Delphi model), and would have been accomplished when DIP financing was still available from private sources. That was a mistake on Wagoner's part. That would have been the only thing that allowed the original GM to remain.
"Remember my post was about Average."
I do, I'm not the one with a memory issue. Sometimes the point you want to make isn't very clear, and I want to understand you. Are you saying this is NOT a problem in GM? That it was just whining in general?
"All I'm saying is if labor pay is to high is, CEO pay is also."
No, you're wrong. The CEO's pay is competitive with her peers, the unskilled labor represented by the UAW is not. If you don't think the CEO's pay is competitive, you can read the explanation in the Proxy statement that explains the process the Compensation Committee used to assure her pay is competitive with other companies. I recommend you take my advice this time and read it.
"One day you forget Mary $12 million in stock when it talking about her pay. Now today you bring her $12 million in stock"
You'll have to say this again. I can't understand what you're saying. Please proof read it this time.
" I think Rick Wagoner had started the turn around in GM becoming a better company, but he will never be known as the turn around CEO but the one that ran GM into Bankruptcy."
Rick Wagoner was one of the smartest, most personable people I have ever meet. He was scary smart...but that wasn't enough. The times called for revolutionary actions and he didn't do that. If Rick Wagoner were CEO today after the bankruptcy, I think he would be fine, but he was the wrong guy for the times. I think Mary should be a little more revolutionary too, but because of the bankruptcy, she has more time than Wagoner did.
"A new study conducted at Harvard Business School found that Americans believe CEOs make roughly 30 times what the average worker makes in the U.S., when in actuality they are making more than 350 times the average worker."
OK, we're going to give you a snap quiz Jeye. Let's say the average UAW worker makes $50K per year. Based on what you say Mary Barra makes, what would be the ratio for the CEO to workers in GM? Let's see if you have learned ANYTHING.
Did you look up my posts to refresh your memory?
"Then compare American CEO pay to any third world country CEO pay where you want the common labor to be done. "
I think instead of repeating everything I have already told you that you've apparently forgotten, I will start referring you to the appropriate posts of mine. Try 'Aug 10, 2015 3:30 PM', or ' Apr 25, 2015 7:44 AM'.
"Easy, Greed and Gov policy that allows it."
Try to google "U.S. Textile Plants Return, With Floors Largely Empty of People" published in the NY Times dated Sept 19, 2013. It's pretty clear why textiles left for off shore production, then is returning (to some extent) with automated production.
"You still couldn't export GM Mexican made vehicles to Japan"
That has nothing to do with labor and even you know that. Remember what I said about saying dumb things.
"I know how you think, that leaders of companies can make all they can get."
You know nothing. I think people should get what they're worth. Since management has no coercive force like unions to demand and extort money from their employer by definition whatever she gets is her market value. What do you think the fair market value is for an unskilled worker? Just curious.
"Textiles jobs were the first to leave they wasn't high paying."
Apparently they were higher than the alternative off shore labor rates, otherwise why did they leave?
"I guess you agree she gets $1.6 million in cash before all other forms of compensation"
I suppose you could say that. She earns her base salary during the year and the bonuses come after the end of the year when company results are known.
"He said the money would be used for railroads, self driving vehicles. So Buffett will have his hand in our pockets since he owns railroads."
He also has bought almost $1 billion worth of oil stocks (Phillips 66) since the first of the year. This represents 14% of Berkshire Hathaway's total portfolio. If he were controlling Obama, wouldn't that be a bad idea?
"She get $1.6 millions in cash before the free stock.But you want the line workers here to work for Mexican wages.."
Again, with the learning disability. I don't care one way or another what the UAW represented workers get. My point is that people shouldn't be confused about the reasons that they are disappearing. You don't seem to be able to grasp the economic realities in life Jeye.
Also, I have said it before, and I'll say it again in deference to your short term memory loss issue, if the UAW were to accept wages competitive to prevailing unskilled workers wage rates they would not be disappearing at that the same rate they are now. I would guess that's around $15 per hour with minimal benefits. About what Tier II wages started out as in their beginnings.
"Last night my AT&T internet service was down until now."
Yes, I have friends at AT&T. Stop saying dumb stuff or I'll have it shut down again.
"Like old management to hell with stockholders"
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH STOCKHOLDERS!! IT'S MANAGEMENT GETTING PAID!!
Because management gets shares in lieu of cash for compensation, they have to sell it to get cash to spend, to send their kids to college, to buy a new house, whatever. Mary Barra has more than $14 million in stock. Do you actually believe that isn't enough to satisfy the market??
Do you know why they seldom show a stock buy...only sells? Figure it out. Geez, you have a learning disability.