"What is the income from China that is NOT equity income?"
Think of it like this...The $315M EBIT is GM's portion of the net income of the joint venture. The $476M is a dividend that GM receives as a minority stockholder.
"I've read the Note 5.....didn't need to read that."
To get the full contribution to GM, yes you do. There are two types of income to GM from China. One you see in Note 15: Segment Reporting. The detail shows $315M EBIT from GMIO which is mostly China. That compares to ($305M) for GME. That amount goes to operating income.
In addition to that, GM receives income from China that is shown on the income statement as Equity Income. Note 5 details that China accounted for $476M of the total of $523M.
"Did GM really lose so much money in Europe again, that it wiped out all the profits from all of China?"
No, see Note 5 of the 10Q.
"P.S. you don't tick us off. We just don't let others forget how stupid you are."
You know, there's an easy solution, right? Unless you think he's going to someday surprise you and say something worthwhile. I concluded long ago that was never going to happen, so I put him on ignore. Why don't you?
"Its just one or two posters with lots of ID's
And they're both very active today."
In my world, they're only an annoyance for about 5 seconds.
" If the actual costs for Volt were amortized accurately, GM would be losing on every unit."
How do you think they are amortizing them? What is the unamortized cost of a Volt?
"What right hand drive cars does GM sell, jeyedolt?"
35% of the countries in the world have RHD transportation systems. GM ships cars to nearly all of them from Vauxhaul, Holden, and GM Korea.
"Anyone read this article?"
John, I read several interpretations of the piece (each with their own spin), but I was unable to find the original. No one is talking about the methodology they used to estimate 53.3 years. Is it based on current consumption, or is it based on forecast consumption? I think all would agree with places like China whose economy is growing by leaps and bounds, they will be significant increases in demand.
The other thing people have to understand is that as oil reserves are depleted, and more expensive methods of extraction are used, the price of oil will grow dramatically. It won't be 53 years before oil prices are prohibitive. As pertains to the auto industry, the companies that are developing the technology now will win...the others will disappear.
"I believe you are making his point. The title of the post is "How Sad". Was Delphi an American company? "
If you are asking if it is a sad thing, yes of course it is. If you reread his original post, however, he implies that a hedge fund is responsible for shipping all those jobs overseas. That's where I differ with Jeye.
First of all, it was not 'A' hedge fund, it was many hedge funds and private equity companies that provided funds in order that Delphi was not forced to liquidate. In addition, GM supplied some of the funds by way of buying unwanted assets from Delphi to maintain supply of critical components, namely Nexteer and 4 other manufacturing plants. Delphi was one of the contributing factors to GM's demise in no small way, by the way.
Secondly, hedge funds, private equity firms and other DIP financing options typically aren't an active part of the actual restructuring as was the case in Delphi's restructuring. During the 4 years of bankruptcy, existing Delphi management planned and executed the movement of operations to low cost countries. By the emergence in October, 2009, Delphi had reduced UAW personnel to zero, and had only a handful of IUE workers in Warren, Ohio.
What was their motivation in doing so? I think we all know. Delphi had proven that a U.S., union based manufacturing operation was not sustainable for a Tier I supplier. Thus, they had no options if they wanted to emerge from this one time opportunity to shed all of it's non competitive problems...and they took it.
Make no mistake, the primary purpose for any 'for profit' company is to provide it's investors with a reasonable pay back for the use of their money. Employment is a useful by product of that motivation.
You ask why should a tax payer be interested in supporting the pensions of retired Delphi workers? They shouldn't, but that is the law. Don't forget that Delphi has it's global headquarters and much of their R&D still in the US. Liquidation would have made that go away.
"No bankruptcy should exclude foreign operations even with GM."
You might have a little trouble convincing other countries of that. Especially places where their operations are very profitable. Besides, every country has different bankruptcy laws and they are not about to bow down to the U.S. and follow our law. When GM is operating in foreign countries, they have to follow THEIR laws.
And they aren't accounting tricks. How would you feel if U.S. based Toyota operations chose to pay Federal taxes based on Japanese law instead of U.S. law? Wouldn't like that would you? Same applies for GM operations in foreign countries.
"Neither company would of had foreign operation without taking profits from here to expand."
For the initial seed money, sure. But in most parts of the world, the local expansion comes from profits made in that country. That is especially true in China and Mexico. Not so much for Europe in the past decade, but I do remember times when the Europeans were actually funding expansion in the U.S.
As much as you would like to make believe that GM is a U.S. company, the facts are that it is a true multi nation company.
From GM's own web site:
"Our 212,000 plus employees work in 396 facilities touching six continents, they speak more than 50 languages and touch 23 time zones."
"It was once a American Co. then it got taken over by Hedge Fund. This is where we should have a big tax on everything they ship here."
I'm not sure what your definition of an "American Co." is, but it is when they had their manufacturing operations mainly in the U.S. they went bankrupt. The main question here is what is a company supposed to do? Is it supposed to function as some kind of social program to provide jobs, or is it supposed to provide a return to the people that invest in it with their hard earned cash.
If you agree with the latter definition, they are doing a much better job of it now that they moved to low cost countries. DLPH has returned 232% since their IPO in November, 2011. They are making about 8% margin and have great cash flow. They are making lots of money for their American shareholders. You should have invested in DLPH instead of GM.
"or am I overplaying the significance?"
I think so. Most of the cars made in S. Korea are exported to various parts of the world so they have long pipelines of stock. I would guess it would be 6-8 weeks before it has a significant effect on revenue. If the strike lasted 3-4 weeks, I am guessing they would simply use premium transportation to get them to market faster.
That being said, you never know about the Korean labor unions. It wouldn't be the first time they were stupid.
"I get an error message very often as of late "Failed to Rate Post"
Yes, me too. I get 'Failure to Post', 'Failure to rate", and 'Failure to ignore'. I think I may have worn out the 'Failure to Ignore' lately.
"Google...."America's Most Obvious Tax Reform Idea: Kill the Oil and Gas Subsidies"
Pretty convincing stuff John. Once again Bunky doesn't have a clue.
Google "What Does Tesla Motors' Elon Musk Think of FuelCell Energy?". I think your position on fuel cells is that they aren't practical. Seems that Elon Musk agrees with you, pretty good company.