Do I think GME was a good idea to keep? Let me refer you to my post of Jun 12, 2012 12:23 PM. In light of your obvious inability to research anything, let me quote that post:
"As some of you may know, I believe that holding on to Europe was a mistake, Fritz Henderson was right. My strategy would have been to sell Opel to Magna and the Russians when they wanted, retained the right to sell cars in Europe under the GM marques, and begin importing cars made by GM operations in SE Asia, Mexico, and South America."
So to you and all others that think I blame the UAW for everything....WRONG AGAIN.
"The Peso is down 50 percent in three years."
No it's not. It's down from 14/USD to 18/USD. For the math challenged that's 28%. Regardless, you understand that makes everything produced in Mexico cheaper in the US, right?
"Trust me, there are overpaid workers. It is NOT GM's hourly employees."
Where else can non-skilled workers make $50 per hour???? Serious question, I await your answer.
If we are going to have meaningful dialogue, you simply have to stop making $%^& up. You're embarrassing yourself.
"Every region outside NA had drops in revenue.
And the losses are in the Billions."
There is NO region that lost over $1B. Wrong. See above.
"They include (Forex) losses in 2013 and 2014 and 2015."
I'm interested in where your information came from in 2013. Please forward your source.
"GME has not made money since 1999. When GM had a chance to get rid of it in 2009. GME has cost the parent company over 20 BILLION dollars since 2009."
$20 Billion? Can you supply your source of information on that?
Here's what the SEC Filings say:
"GME has cost the parent company over 20 BILLION dollars since 2009."
"Wngr, your arrogance to hardworking workers of the line, your teammates, is astounding."
You just make this stuff up don't you? I am entirely supportive of autoworkers. Let me clarify for you, there are two things I don't like about the UAW, it's leadership and it's wage structure. Both of those two things have been destroying UAW families for 40 years now. It is devastating when a family loses their income stream, but that doesn't stop the UAW leadership from making the same destructive mistakes every 4 years. I would be glad to furnish proof to you in the form of previous posts of mine if you would like. Please don't accuse me of something that you have just made up.
"1) Management moves production outside the country, not the uaw (or the well paid hourly workers of TM or Honda). Ford announced this morning they will be moving some production to mexico. The announcement didn't come from uaw headquarters."
Correct, on the surface. When you think through these actions you discover than management is merely adapting to the rules set forth to them. Ask yourself this, WHY is management doing this? Is it because they just don't like Americans? Of course not. It would be much easier to maintain the status quo and continue down the same path as before. In an industry where the difference of survival is a few percentage points, every dollar counts. No input to cost can be ignored, especially one that adds $1400 to the cost of your product.
"Three out of the four reporting regions lost money in 2015."
You really do just make this stuff up don't you? At some point in time, Americans have lost the ability to do even the simplest research. In 2015, at the EBIT level, NA was +$11B, and GMIO was +$1.4B. Sure GME lost $800M and SA lost $700M. Did you notice that the gains were in the Billions and the losses were in the Millions? In addition, the other segment that you ignored was GMF which was +$800M.
"Wow this was a long time coming. Yes it hurts America like most of the trade deals. If if wasn't, our imbalance of trade wouldn't be $43 billion plus a month."
I'll take you at your word that you believe what you do as a result of a patriotic motivation. If we are going to have a serious conversation, there has to be at least one ground rule. First, when I ask you a question you can't dodge or ignore it, and I will reciprocate. Even when the questions get hard, no bobbing and weaving. If you agree, here's the first one.
We both agree that America is on the decline I think. And one of the symptoms of this decline is the balance of trade. When I say symptom, that means it isn't the root cause but the result of whatever the root cause is.
Question: What do you believe is the root cause of our trade balance issue with Mexico, and what would you do about it if you were king for a day?
" You should leave your estate to Mexico when the time comes. Ours will go to our children"
Try not to be an a**hole Jeye. I love my kids every bit as much as you do. And if I were you, I would leave our families out of any discussions we may have. You don't have a very history with that.
So you avoided my questions. Let me repeat them:
"Are you against a level playing field? Do you acknowledge it makes a level playing field? Are you against NAFTA because it hurts the US? Are you against NAFTA because it hurts the UAW?"
"Tell me what you think is unfair about NAFTA"
"Where have you been I just posted NAFTA the Broken Promise "
I don't want some cut and paste about what somebody else thinks, I want to know what YOU think. Are you against a level playing field? Do you acknowledge it makes a level playing field? Are you against NAFTA because it hurts the US? Are you against NAFTA because it hurts the UAW?
Honest question. I want to know what bothers you, is it selfish motivations or patriotic motivations. Because if it's patriotic motivations, I'm ready to have that discussion too.
"I was in Mexico last Tuesday"
Which plants did you visit. I know, I'm being facetious. You've never been in a Mexican plant in your life.
" to bad Yahoo won't let post a picture of a Mexican school or what the children are doing during lunch.'
So you would deny them an opportunity to improve their lives? What kind of person are you?
"Our son has been to the plants many times."
So your own family is perpetuating this act of treason? Have you taken him out of your will?
"He got picked up at the Airport."
Yea, me too when I went down there. In fact when I went to Mexico City for meetings at GM Mexico Headquarters, we were picked up in armored Suburbans and escorted by GM Security that carried automatic weapons. And when we crossed the border at El Paso, when you get into Mexico there is a public park on the right side of the road with a bunch of black Escalades lined up with cartel members monitoring who's coming into their "territory".
Don't you think the Mexicans deserve a break and get a few more better paying jobs so that they don't have to live like that?
"What I say has nothing to do about the UAW"
Really? It's just a coincidence that what you say is exactly the propaganda that the UAW has filled your head with?
"....,its about America and its downfall."
Then go see Dennis Williams, not me.
"With you trade wasn't ever unfair it was always the UAW fault ."
Tell me what you think is unfair about NAFTA. It removes all barriers to trade for all the participants. It may seem unfair to the average UAW worker because it takes away the tariffs and provides for free enterprise. But will you agree that for American consumers it is lowering prices?
"But America is still the World defenders at a cost of Our taxpayers."
Did you have a point or just barking at the moon?
Is it unfair, depends who you ask. If you ask the Mexicans they will say that it entirely fair. Americans are finally paying the price of being over paid and non-competitive. They would say that NAFTA finally took down the barriers to trade that the unions had lobbied for to protect their inflated pay. Finally, Americans are having to compete on a level playing field.
Isn't that what you want Japan, S. Korea, and China to do. Look up "hypocritical" in your dictionary Jeye.
"Love to know when those geniuses in finance purchased from Mexico."
GM has an average of 35 days of inventory on hand (if you need help with the calculation, just ask). That means that just about every month the material is replenished. Actually the time is a little less than that due to the fact that their inventory on the balance sheet contains more than just productive material. BTW, those "genius'" don't work in Finance, they work in Procurement.
"what are your buddies doing with all those Pesos on their books in Mexico?"
When the pesos never leave Mexico, it's a moot point. They are used to fund capital expansion, pay Mexican suppliers, etc. Companies seldom bring money back to the US to avoid taxes (another lesson for another time).
" Are you actually trying to tell me that the Mexican production environment is fully self contained within the Mexican borders???"
Yep. Ever hear of the maquiladoras? Look it up, you'll learn something. The supply base in Mexico is extremely well developed. Why wouldn't it be? Every major auto builder has plants in Mexico. Besides, the supply community has the same issue that the OEMs do, they can't be competitive manufacturing in the US so naturally they follow the OEMs.
When was the last time you were in Mexico? I have visited 21 plants down therein the past 5 years.
"2 billion usd LOSS. Keep saying that number wngr."
I thought I told you that number was wrong. Maybe you should tell me your source of that number so that I might avoid it. And besides, as I have already established....none of it is coming from Mexico. The Peso has been strengthening for the past 10 years at least.
You were right when you said that facts matter. All you seem to be able to do is ask questions.
"Wngr, at the risk of annoying our buddy PM with another Don Quixote reference, are you about ready to stop tilting at the windmill that is Jeye? Trying to reason with the unreasoning truly is dreaming the impossible dream."
I know, it's not worth the time. But it's cathartic for me after so long of having to maintain a professional demeanor with our union "partners". So many times of having to just walk away when they start spewing their hypocritical, self serving propaganda to their constituents has made me what I am.
You can't imagine how badly I wanted to talk to the rank and file people and tell them just how poorly their leadership is misleading them for the sole purpose of perpetuating this cushy, well paying job that they had been voted into. I keep flashing back to the "conferences" we used to have in Palm Springs, CA and Hollywood, FL where the union officials would be missing for all the meetings, but would always show up for meals with the wife and little ones.
The UAW has taken advantage of their membership for so long it's just a travesty. Then, to have someone like Jeye start regurgitating the same propaganda is too much for me. It shows me that the union deception has worked.
So please don't take this away from me. It's kind of uplifting to my soul. :-)
"Well I'm sorry I left out 't on the end of can."
"But here is that Famous word again (moron ) in a reply"
I bet you get tired of hearing it.
If you stick around here long enough, you will find that I can pretty much always back up what I say. In addition, I'm blessed with a pretty good B-S detector and when I read your posts lots of bells go off.
I suggest that you spend a little more time before posting in the future to get to know the subject matter a little better. It might save you some embarrassment later on.
“Perhaps you can point me to some source that indicates that GM lost no money in Peso???”
I suggest you find a table of foreign exchanges values through 2015 somewhere. If you do, you will find that in January, 2015, the Mexican Peso rate was about 15 pesos to the USD. In December, 2015, the rate was 18 pesos to the USD. That means if a car was being built in Mexico for 300,000 pesos, in January that car would have cost $20K, in December that same car would have cost $16,667.
There was a gain for GM against the peso, not a loss.
“Instead of retooling in the states, entire operations were built for Mexico. “
Care to retract that statement.
“GM is buying raw goods with a currency that has gotten destroyed.”
Nope, see above.
Let’s start at the beginning and set the record straight.
“When it was all done, I believe wnger's plant in Mexico had managed to save 10-12% in cost of production over a similar plant in the States.”
According to the report published by Harbour & Associates, there are an average of 23 man-hours involved in the final assembly of a car. There are also 2 MH of stamping, 4.5 MH for engine mfg., and 3.5 MH for transmission. Generally, that is the content that the 3 “Detroit” companies do.
That’s a total of 33 man-hours of content. In Mexico, those 33 MH expanded by hourly rate ($8/hr) is worth $264. If that same vehicle were to be built in the US, it would cost $1650 (using $50/hr). That a penalty of $1386 per car.
GM has 3 major assembly centers in Mexico each producing about 1000 cars per day (TAKT time of 55 seconds). That’s 3000 cars per day x 240 working days per year, or 720,000 cars per year. 720,000 cars x $1386 = $997M per year saved by building these cars in Mexico.
“.....took a foreign exchange loss of 1.4 Billion usd I the 4th quarter. Is this a one time event? No. Total losses were well over 2 Billion for the year.”
No, the correct number for forex in 2015 was $1.4B for the entire year (Source: Chart Set from the earnings release, Chart number 28). This chart also has the note “primarily related to FX associated with Australian Dollar, Russian Ruble, Colombian Peso, Brazilian Real, and Euro.”
Additionally, the consolidated forex for the 4th quarter was $400M (from Chart 11 of the same package).
"Again wngr played his word game. The question was why can't GM export a Mexican produced vehicle to Japan, Korea or China."
No, you moron, that's NOT the question you asked. Here is the question YOU asked taken directly from your post of yesterday. Look it up, then I expect an apology:
"Another one you never answered. How come GM can export Mexican produce vehicles to Korea, Japan and China?"
Study this real hard Jeye. You will find that you asked me why GM CAN export cars....not why they can't.
Waiting for an apology.
"Because in 2009, the Mexican operations was self sufficient"
OMG, I'm starting to talk like him! That should be:
"Because in 2009, the Mexican operations WERE self sufficient"
" Leadership of the unions in Mexico are intensely corrupt."
Really. I must be the luckiest guy in the world then. I have 6 years of experience working with 3 Mexican unions and not once did we pay them anything like a bribe. This includes unions at the Silao, Ramos Arizpe, and San Luis Potosi GM plants.
"Gm Treasury lost more more money in one year, than they gave the UAW over an entire 5 year contract."
GM lost $1.4B in forex in 2015. In their notes the primary losses were in the Australian Dollar, Russian Ruble,
Colombian Peso, Brazilian Real, and Euro. No mention of the Peso.
By the way, GM and the UAW signed a 4 year agreement, not 5 years.
My estimate of the cost of the UAW contract is $1.7B. This includes two 3% raises, two 4% lump sum payments, an $8K signing bonus, a $2K lump sum payment, four $1K performance bonuses, four $500 quality bonuses, and 1300 additional skilled trades employees.
My calculations assume 55,000 UAW employees, $27 per hour non-skilled, $35 per hour skilled, and 10% OT.