Mon, May 28, 2012, 3:15 PM EDT - U.S. Markets closed for Memorial Day

NC high court to hear case of $14K hospital bill

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — The case of a man who was stuck with a $14,419 bill that he calls inflated and unreasonable after three days of care in a Charlotte hospital is going to be heard by the North Carolina Supreme Court.

The case, scheduled to be heard by the state's high court on Monday, is upsetting officials at the state's major medical centers.

Robert Talford argues that there should be a trial to determine whether the cost of medications was reasonable. He says the hospital, which he declined to identify, charged 24 times more for the medication than what a local pharmacy would charge.

"The cost was not reasonable since the difference in the charges for the medications was 24 times, 15 times and 11 times higher," Talford said in court documents. "The reasonable man could find these charges unreasonable."

The bill from Talford's 2007 hospital stay doesn't include another $5,556 for his room, he said.

The North Carolina Hospital Association and big hospital groups based in Durham, Asheville, Greensboro, Winston-Salem and Raleigh want the Supreme Court to rule against Talford and make it easy for them to collect overdue bills in court without a trial.

"While all patients receiving care are generally liable for payment for services they receive, the practical reality — especially in the current economy — is that hospitals do not receive payment from a significant number of their patients, many of whom have no means to pay," the hospitals said in arguments submitted to the court. "So it is imperative that hospitals are able to collect money from patients able to pay for their medical care without unreasonable barriers to hinder such efforts."

Talford, 68, of Charlotte, declined comment Saturday. A lawyer for more than 30 years, Talford is representing himself. His license to practice law was suspended in 2009 after the North Carolina State Bar determined he charged an excessive fee when he tried to collect one-third of a former worker's compensation client's settlement money after the client had dropped Talford as his lawyer.

The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Hospital Authority, which does business as Carolinas HealthCare System, appealed the case to the Supreme Court after a divided Court of Appeals panel determined the hospital shouldn't get a court order forcing collection without a trial. Carolinas Health Care System operates nearly three dozen health care facilities in the region, including its flagship hospital, Carolinas Medical Center.

The lower appeals court said the hospital bill doesn't itemize the charges, and the only evidence that the costs were reasonable come from hospital employees. So a trial should weigh whether the hospital's price was right.

Lawyers for the nonprofit hospital authority did not respond to a message seeking comment, but in court documents they said they have the right to collect because Talford signed a contract upon hospital admission promising to pay.

The hospital's financial department director testified in earlier court hearings that the charges assessed to Talford were standard for patients receiving the care Talford needed, and also standard at other hospitals complying with federal Medicare and Medicaid cost regulations.

Talford's argument that he was overcharged says he was most severely overcharged for the drug diltiazem, which is used to treat high blood pressure and control chest pain, according to the National Institutes of Health website. Talford said he was also given enoxaparin sodium, an anti-coagulant drug, and folic acid, which helps the body manufacture red blood cells.

The fact that the drugs given Talford cost more in a hospital than a street-corner pharmacy offers "no more guidance to the issue of 'reasonable price' than would the obvious fact that a bottle of water sold for $6 at a Carolina Panthers home game could be purchased for $.99 from a local grocery store," the hospital system's attorneys said.

"In essence, defendant provides the unremarkable assertion that he can buy a pill cheaper at the hospital pharmacy or at a local CVS drug store than to have that same pill served by a technician, who is supervised by a nurse, who reports (to) the hall nursing supervisor, who reports to the director, and on up the chain of command. In addition, this pill will not be picked up to be taken at home, but rather is served in a room that is clean, maintained and supervised 24 hours a day, seven days a week," hospital attorneys said.

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Emery Dalesio can be reached at http://twitter.com/emerydalesio

 
  • Pamela  •  3 months ago
    When I was in the hospital for 5 days due to surgery the bill JUST FOR THE HOSPITAL was $56k!!! That is not including the doctor bills, which I never saw. I have very good insurance through my employer and all I paid was the $250 deductible. How can a hosital justify over $10k per day? I shudder to think what would have happened had I not had insurance.
    • Mikey 3 months ago
      you could have changed your name and gotten off for free
    • Wong Fei Hung 3 months ago
      Most people that have insurance especially good insurance don't play much attention to medical bills since the co-pay is usually reasonable. It's when you don't have insurance is when you get the shocker.
    • Dark Angel 3 months ago
      In some cases medical insurance doesn't cover all of the hospital charges. My grand daughter had over $70,000 in outstanding medical bills due to continuing treatments for an auto-immune problem (she doesn't produce antibodies), which forced her parents to file bankruptsy. They had insurance but the remaining charges were deductibles and out-of-pocket. If you think all medical charges are negotiable, think again.
  • CB  •  3 months ago
    The hospital's argument is basically that, because some people can't afford to pay, others have to pay without question make up the difference. Does that sound right?
    • alexK 3 months ago
      Whats the alternative? Let the 50 million Americans without insurance die in the streets?
    • kathy 3 months ago
      The Government lets this happen... it not only offsets the free care for the poor, but the low rates paid for medicare and medicaid treatments. The poor get it free,the rich use it as a tax right off and the middle class go bankjrupt!!!!
    • CB 3 months ago
      Wait, wait, wait, AlexK. Just because you don't have insurance doesn't mean you can't afford to pay for medical treatment. And if you don't have insurance and can afford to pay, you are expected to pay way more than those who have insurance. I had surgery that would have cost $35,000 without insurance but because I had insurance it only cost $5000. Do you find that outrageous? I do. And so do many others. People have every right to question outrageous pricing.
  • stu  •  Fayetteville, North Carolina  •  3 months ago
    BULL. The hospital's attorney stated "no more guidance to the issue of 'reasonable price' than would the obvious fact that a bottle of water sold for $6 at a Carolina Panthers home game could be purchased for $.99 from a local grocery store."
    At a Panther's game you have the choice to not purchase their water. How many times does a nurse walk into your room and 1) notify of the price of the medication she is about to administer and 2) tell you that you have the choice to not receive the medicine????
    The hospitals are getting away with robbery and you cannot rob from Paul to give to Peter just because Paul can afford his bill and Peter doesn't pay his. The argument of the hospital is unreasonable pure and simple!
    • Hedgehog 3 months ago
      Perhaps it is the Panthers that should change the price on their water?
    • rico 3 months ago
      Easy enough tell them you don't want the medication, of course doesn't that defeat the purpose of seeking medical help when you then ignore the treatment. But and this is important you do have a choice, you don't have to take the pill.
    • Hedgehog 3 months ago
      So give me the option of sending my kid to the local Walgreens to get my meds. Problem solved. Everybody's happy. Right?
  • Gary Freedom  •  3 months ago
    There is a difference between charges for services and being ripped off.
    • Allen Riddle 3 months ago
      I got a bill the other day (sat.) against my deceased wife of $162.50. the total bill was $172.00 for an unchimial scan.It showed my ins. only payed $8.50 leaving the remainder for me to pay.I went digging in my files,and found my paper work.I called this morning and said there has been a mistake. I read that medicare had payed $34.41 and medicare said i counld only be billed for $8.69 thats where my secondary ins. came to play,they payed the $8.50 accually leaving a balance of .19cents.the person i spoke with said O I SEE IT your bill i'm making it zero balance rigth now.this was the first bill i had recieved.it was for services back in 10-08-10.Please keep your paper work they'll try anyway the can to rip you off.
    • Minnie 3 months ago
      Allen, things like that do happen. And you're right, keep all the paperwork even if you need to go back 10 years. I know for some people that like to be neat and tidy that's a problem but for pack rats like me it's saved my butt a few times because I can show where something's been paid.
    • Tsvet 3 months ago
      I can feel you Allen ,the same happened to me too from two places- new dentist and emergency room. Gladly my insurance(BCBSofTX) is good and was behind my rights! I got refund checks that they overcharged me. Its good to pay attention what are you billed for and how our insurance work. If you don't you pay for it!!!
  • LadyBel  •  3 months ago
    I was in the hospital in Carlsbad, NM, for less than 18 hours and the hospital charges (doctor fees, x-rays, etc., not included) were $24,000. When I offered to pay cash if they would reduce the bill, they cut it to $12,000. So they were overcharging by at least $12,000. No wonder insurance premiums are so outrageous. I guess I should have just sued.
    • Ranee 3 months ago
      It continues down to even a small country doctor. When I visit, with no insurance, paying cash, a regular visit costs me 35.00. My friend with insurance, is billed 78.00 for the same visit.
    • retired lady 3 months ago
      I am not mad at you, but..... You just happened to have available $12,000 cash?
      Good for you. Seriously, I am glad that you were in the position and well-acquainted with the ins and outs to negotiate with the hospital, because that proves that money talks and the other "stuff" just lays there and stinks.
      What about the poor soul who is under-insured or has a very high deductible and is caught in the clogs of the system?
    • bud 3 months ago
      Hi lady, Kudos to you, I am so heartened to hear that you stood up to these folks and paid your own way. For those who would detract for reasons of your wealth, I say, the poorer you are, the more you can negotiate. Just let the hospital know, that you are willing to pay your part, but the amount is outrageous, once ya settle on an amount, and it will be lower, then establish a payment plan. They cannot sue a deal, that was jointly made.
  • Sherwood O  •  Beaverton, Oregon  •  3 months ago
    Stuck in a hospital is a litle different than a bottle of water at a game and the clean room cost him over $5,000 for 3 nights. I think they opened the door to the real truth when they said this guy has to pay for all those who don't or can't pay. The entire health care system is broken and from this article it seems their fix is to charge insurance companies and those who can pay prices that are way more than what even the average person would consider inflated.
  • MrPeanut12345  •  Dallas, Texas  •  3 months ago
    $14,000 for three days in the hospital is nothing. I wasn't even admitted to the hospital, but they billed me over $14,000 for one evening in the emergency room (hit by a drunk driver). Through an agreement with my insurance company, they settled for about $5,000. If I had no insurance, they would have tried to collect $14,000 from me, or whoever else they could. This was also one of those "non-profit hospitals."
  • Grumpy  •  3 months ago
    It's called price gouging, and should be illegal.
  • Gem  •  3 months ago
    Hey Hospital Spokesman, I don't have to go to a freaking ball game if I don't want to, nor do I have to go if I can't afford to. If I'm in the hospital, I have NO OTHER choice.That is the difference #$%$And reduce that chain of command and magically some of your prices could come down.
  • J D  •  Santa Monica, California  •  3 months ago
    If hospitals didn't jack up prices so much, people would pay their bills.
  • Michael  •  Poway, California  •  3 months ago
    About time somebody threw Hospitals under the bus for charging $35 for an aspirin!
  • Charles  •  Hicksville, New York  •  3 months ago
    Nothing like getting a $100 band aid, and a $50 aspirin. Sounds just like the governments $200 toilet seat and $500 hammer...
  • mestes  •  3 months ago
    By the hospitals own argument, I could stay at the local hilton for $250 a night, have the concierge pick up my prescription at Walgreens for $24, have it delivered to my room with some spring water $6, tip the concierge $10 and my three day hospital stay would only be $870.
  • Peanut  •  Monroe City, Missouri  •  3 months ago
    Wait...did anyone else catch this comment??

    ..."is that hospitals do not receive payment from a significant number of their patients,"... "So it is imperative that hospitals are able to collect money from patients able to pay for their medical care without unreasonable barriers to hinder such efforts."

    Are they not *admitting* to overcharging and then trying to justify it??

    I know hospitals are in dire straits and God help me I want them there when I need them. But there has to be a better way than to charge me for my services as well as John and Jane Smiths' services because they couldn't afford to pay.
  • Curt  •  Fort Wayne, Indiana  •  3 months ago
    The fact that the drugs given Talford cost more in a hospital than a street-corner pharmacy offers "no more guidance to the issue of 'reasonable price' than would the obvious fact that a bottle of water sold for $6 at a Carolina Panthers home game could be purchased for $.99 from a local grocery store," the hospital system's attorneys said.

    Not really true. Setting at a 3 hour game not buying a bottle of water for 6 bucks isn't going to kill me or allow me to become sicker. In the hospital you really have no choice other than to refuse the medication and die or become sicker. Not like they gave family members prescriptions to run out and grab them at the corner pharmacy.
  • Robert  •  3 months ago
    Shame on the hospitals...the ultimate shake-down is a ransom for your life.
  • merlin s  •  Atlanta, Georgia  •  3 months ago
    yea and at a game i have the right not to buy that 6 dollar bottle of water, i can bring my own water in, so hows that for ya.
  • Juli  •  3 months ago
    Heck, my son went to a hospital in CA when he cut his pinky finger. A few hours in a non-emergency clinic and we were billed out for over $2200. $200 of that was for "draining a hematoma" (blood blister on his pinky finger). Abuse is rampant in the medical system. They're used to overbilling because "insurance will pay for it". And they wonder why insurance and medical costs are going up. We need to go back to the good old-fashioned way - you get sick, you pay your own bills. They'd have to reduce costs so that the average person could afford them, or else go out of business because no one would use them.
  • Edward  •  3 months ago
    This is just typical for all hospitals. I had my own experience with hospital billing. They charged me $173.00 for one bandage which was the size of a half dollar. They charged my insurance company $2670 for an ultra sound which took 5 minutes.
    They also refused to treat the man in the next bed who they diagnosed with kidney cancer because he had no insurance. they had him in and out in less than 8 hours. They made him call his 18 year old son to pick him up. They cried together when he told his son what he had. Yep, hospitals are just focused on one thing and that is money.
  • !  •  3 months ago
    The entire healthcare system like the rest of our economy is a disaster and all for the same reason, GREED.
 
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