Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 12:04AM ET - U.S. Markets open in 9 hours and 26 minutes.
Even as revelations about the Bernie Madoff scandal continue to emerge, there seem to be many more questions than answers so far.
Chief among them: Do Madoff's investors have any hope of getting any money back?
John Singer, partner at the New York law firm Singer Deutsch, says there is some hope for some Madoff investors, but it largely depends on which part of Madoff's firm you invested in, and whether you invested directly with Madoff or via a third party.
Investors who had money with Bernard L. Madoff Investments Securities LLC, the infamous money manager's registered investment arm, are covered up to $500,000 by the Securities Investor Protection Corp. (SIPC).
Those who invested money in Madoff's unregistered hedge fund are, unfortunately, not covered by SIPC — which is the FDIC of the securities industry — and unlikely to get anything back.
The only hope for those investors, and the best hope for anyone who invested with Madoff, is if you invested with him via a third party, either a bank or a fund of funds. "You have a chance to go after a potentially solvent entity other than [Madoff]," Singer says.
Fund of funds, "whose sole responsibility is to do due diligence on other fund mangers" are particularly a good source for investors to recoup something, he says. "If a fund of funds put all of your money with Madoff, where red flags had been raised, that is so egregious - the potential culpability is there."
But such is the nature of this scandal that even the silver linings have clouds. Investors who had taken money out of Madoff's firm as long as six years ago may be subject to claw-back penalties due to what's called "fraudulent conveyance," as detailed in the accompanying video.
There's no limit to the options: Hanging, Firing Squad, Lethal Injection, Drawn and Quartered, Electric Chair, Stoning, Dragged behind a car, Lions den, buried alive, buried in a fire ant hill, etc. You get the idea.
This brutal market will expose more and more fraud - I sense there will be more crooks like this being exposed. This is a HUGE distruction of wealth... THE GREAT RECESSION IS HERE!
Christopher Cox should be FIRED for not doing his JOB, is anyone going to JAIL on this one either?????
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday December 17, 2008 09:21AM EST***You forgot guillotine, strangling and an elephant stomping on a persons head.
Get used to it, we talked about Enron for years, and this scandal is almost as big; the only difference being that more wealthy people are affected by this than Enron and the losses are seemingly more concentrated.
What gets me is that most investors in my experience, have failed to educate themselves in investing. I bet most of these victims didn't read so much as one book on investing. This makes them easy picking for crooks. Wealth accumulated over a life time and not one book on how to invest it. For example, one book I read said if you have doubts, aren't sure, or can't fully understand an investment, stay away. These investors should be flogged for stupidity and laziness.
Treat these crooked fellows like enemy of combat or terrorists? What diference it makes? terrorists kill us with one shot. These guys make life miserable as we have to suffer and work like slaves for whole life.
It is wrong, real wrong and the Cox should be held accountable for not finding this out himself.
NO. the cost, as usual will be foisted onto the shoulders of the American people. I'm just not getting the rationales. Why are "we the people" being held responsible for others' mistakes and frauds. I really need to explore how to best deal with this. I cannot appreciate the mindset of lack of accountability. And the proper word, I believe is depression. It took over a year for the top to admit recession.
Shut down all the hedge funds and funds of funds which cause all the market fluctuations and manipulations. Restore the stock market to making people invest in securities they understand through traditional broker dealers, where decisions have to be based on the long-term value of the companies themselves. Witness yesterdays' bail out of the market by Bernanke, an irresponsible, shocking, rediculous action of lowering interest rates to zero (like Japan) just to keep the market happy for two hours. What he going to do when it PLUNGES later this week when there is no auto bailout and 1,000,000 more people are unemployed - lower interest rates to negative numbers????.
Madoff who would invest with a guy who's got a name like MADE OFF................... with everyone's money. HE MADE OFF WITH ALL THE MONEY!!
......and he's out on bail?? WTF? Shame on this system of "justice"... I wonder who bailed him out? Hopefully someone from the mafia who invested with him and intends to collect. haha
Also, the small auditing firm that let Madoff uses its name on his annual audits has exposure, at least to the extent that it has liability insurance. That is probably not much, but you can count on it all being eaten. And, the audit partners likely have some personal exposure. And, as a lawyer, I suspect that Madoff's lawyers have all reported potential claims to their carriers.
...more dollars sprouting wings and never to be seen again...
Also, the small auditing firm that let Madoff uses its name on his annual audits has exposure, at least to the extent that it has liability insurance. That is probably not much, but you can count on it all being eaten. And, the audit partners likely have some personal exposure. And, as a lawyer, I suspect that Madoff's lawyers have all reported potential claims to their carriers.
Right ... The real question is how many more Bernie's are still operating hedge funds that have been overlooked (to put it nicely) by the SEC oversite? This is what should scare us all. The hedge fund industry is about to implode and bring everyone down do to their lack of regulation. Wealthy individuals should have known better. Their own greed has lead them down this tragic path. I just hope we don't have to bail them out as well.
I say put all these crooks in general population in the most hard-core prison in America and let them take it in the A$$ just like they made all of us who lost retirement funds and life savings!
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything!!!!
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dano - Wednesday December 17, 2008 09:12AM EST
Why are we still talking about Madoff?