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Fill or Kill: Strong Case We Don't Need Geithner's Toxic Debt Scheme

Posted Jul 01, 2009 07:00am EDT by Aaron Task
Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner will announce long-awaited details on the PPIP plan Wednesday or Thursday this week, according to CNBC.

PPIP, the Public-Private Investment Program, is the government's controversial plan to spur buying of banks' toxic debt. Since Geithner first floated the scheme in late March, bank stocks have rallied sharply and most big financial services firms have raised capital via equity sales - thanks, in part, to optimism about the PPIP.

The irony, of course, is the plan hasn't gotten off the ground and is hamstrung, most notably, by banks' reluctance to sell their "assets" at what they consider rock-bottom prices.

There's a strong case to be made we don't need the PPIP anymore, says Dan Greenhaus, an analyst in Miller Tabak's strategy group. At the same time, banks are going to be even less willing to participate now, since they've raised capital and the economy has shown signs of stabilizing.

If Geithner's goal was simply to inject confidence into the system so banks could raise capital, then PPIP really was "the greatest program that never occurred," as Goldman managing director Scott Romanoff described it, according to The WSJ. Viewed in this light, Geithner might be wise to kill the program altogether. 

But if Geithner's goal was really to get toxic assets off the banks' balance sheets, the program has failed completely - or merits an incomplete at best. Against that backdrop, it will be interesting to see what Geithner says about PPIP this week, if anything; as of Tuesday evening, a Treasury spokesman had not responded to my requests for comment on the CNBC report, which also states the program is going to be shrunk dramatically from its originally $1 trillion goal.

74 Comments

JasonG
JasonG - Wednesday July 01, 2009 07:21AM EDT

And the lunacy continues! Only in the USA....LOL.

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday July 01, 2009 07:34AM EDT

what a mess, where do you think the billions come from.....??? maybe the noise from the printing presses has clouded your judgment. who is and when are we going to pay it back?? what will the true cost be?? these toxic assets are long term instruments, not to be valued as short term turn and burn assets. they aren't "Toxic" if looked at, as what they really are.... long term mortgage pools. long term.... short term solution to a long term problem that isn't! don't believe the hype. it's all a lie....

Evan L
Evan L - Wednesday July 01, 2009 07:51AM EDT

let the markets work..... let the banks price(sell) their assets as they seem fit

fortyfootowl
fortyfootowl - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:06AM EDT

key words "make money" "free money" sounds like they mean counterfeiting. The banks and the government are insolvent and all they can do is pretend they are solvent always pulling the wool tightly over the taxpayers eyes. What a joke.

lisalipps
lisalipps - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:06AM EDT

1.21.2013 the day the nightmare ends.

Ted
Ted - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:20AM EDT

"DISTORT & SHORT". Now who's doing the distorting? Remember the witch hunt around this time last year and think about how nobody needed to twist the facts to make the banks look unstable. Although we were told greedy bears were at work fooling the public, making the poor banker looks bad and would be hunted down etc... Now we know the bears were just stating the facts and should've been praised for their insight and taken much more seriously at the time. They were 100% right as history has proven. It was all true...and then some. If they were allowed to speak out, many people would've sold before the crash last fall and be much happier now.

Lean Times
Lean Times - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:20AM EDT

Invest in Canadian banks, solvent and the right price with an .86 dollar exchange rate.

PaulS
PaulS - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:35AM EDT

The toxic assets are only long term when the are held long term and do not go into foreclosure (remember we are talking about mortgages). Until jobs come back, exotic mortgages are re-written and home prices stabilize they (the mortgages) will be toxic debt. Jobs (things that are made or produced here in the United States). Exotic Mortgages (no money down...adjustable..interest only. Home price stabilization greatly reduced new home building and again back to jobs. So yes I think to banks will be back for more help, and by the way the latest survey on foreclosures shows that traditional mortgages has gone way up. Jobs and take home pay related issues are not going to get any better for quite some time.

Tara
Tara - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:39AM EDT

PPIP will be put forward as many hedge funds have Madoff like balance sheets. If Treasury does not clean up their balance sheets soon many hedgies will fold under the coming cmo and cmbs crisis that will begin in September. Additionally, these hedge funds own a boatload of derivatives tied to re performance. The also own many of the CDS's that will fetch 2 cents like LEH garbage did in liquidation. AIG will need another 300 billion to cover the package losses. One quickie, with PPIP the Feds clean up the hedge funds balance sheets and creates the new medium for the banks to revolve the toxic loans amongst one another by injecting another trillion into a 12 trillion market. Since the banks are no longer required to let the public know what the true value of the loans are that they hold (mark to market suspension) they can rotate the loans at inflated values amongst one another until the market improves in 15 years. They must use NPV finding to value all of these assets before repackaging and shipping. The scariest part is that even after the correction we have experienced across the nation many major metro areas are still way over-priced when compared to the income median. Imagine, the market has corrected tremendously in NY and still only 20% of the houses are considered affordable. NY is right behind CA with budget issues and I would sell their muni's right away. God Bless every American

Tara
Tara - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:40AM EDT

PPIP will be put forward as many hedge funds have Madoff like balance sheets. If Treasury does not clean up their balance sheets soon many hedgies will fold under the coming cmo and cmbs crisis that will begin in September. Additionally, these hedge funds own a boatload of derivatives tied to re performance. The also own many of the CDS's that will fetch 2 cents like LEH garbage did in liquidation. AIG will need another 300 billion to cover the package losses. One quickie, with PPIP the Feds clean up the hedge funds balance sheets and creates the new medium for the banks to revolve the toxic loans amongst one another by injecting another trillion into a 12 trillion market. Since the banks are no longer required to let the public know what the true value of the loans are that they hold (mark to market suspension) they can rotate the loans at inflated values amongst one another until the market improves in 15 years. They must use NPV finding to value all of these assets before repackaging and shipping. The scariest part is that even after the correction we have experienced across the nation many major metro areas are still way over-priced when compared to the income median. Imagine, the market has corrected tremendously in NY and still only 20% of the houses are considered affordable. NY is right behind CA with budget issues and I would sell their muni's right away. God Bless every American

Tara
Tara - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:41AM EDT

PPIP will be put forward as many hedge funds have Madoff like balance sheets. If Treasury does not clean up their balance sheets soon many hedgies will fold under the coming cmo and cmbs crisis that will begin in September. Additionally, these hedge funds own a boatload of derivatives tied to re performance. The also own many of the CDS's that will fetch 2 cents like LEH garbage did in liquidation. AIG will need another 300 billion to cover the package losses. One quickie, with PPIP the Feds clean up the hedge funds balance sheets and creates the new medium for the banks to revolve the toxic loans amongst one another by injecting another trillion into a 12 trillion market. Since the banks are no longer required to let the public know what the true value of the loans are that they hold (mark to market suspension) they can rotate the loans at inflated values amongst one another until the market improves in 15 years. They must use NPV finding to value all of these assets before repackaging and shipping. The scariest part is that even after the correction we have experienced across the nation many major metro areas are still way over-priced when compared to the income median. Imagine, the market has corrected tremendously in NY and still only 20% of the houses are considered affordable. NY is right behind CA with budget issues and I would sell their muni's right away. God Bless every American

PaulS
PaulS - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:41AM EDT

The toxic assets are only long term when the are held long term and do not go into foreclosure (remember we are talking about mortgages). Until jobs come back, exotic mortgages are re-written and home prices stabilize they (the mortgages) will be toxic debt. Jobs (things that are made or produced here in the United States). Exotic Mortgages (no money down...adjustable..interest only. Home price stabilization greatly reduced new home building and again back to jobs. So yes I think to banks will be back for more help, and by the way the latest survey on foreclosures shows that traditional mortgages has gone way up. Jobs and take home pay related issues are not going to get any better for quite some time.

marx
marx - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:44AM EDT

lisalipps,why wait? Contact your senator/house rep NOW. Audit the FED HR 1207 S 6055 http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/audit-the-federal-reserve-hr-1207/

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:46AM EDT

you got what you voted for at midterm make sure you put that x next to the same name you always have and america can continue to go down just proves the point never underestimate the stupidity of the american voting public

aurw
aurw - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:57AM EDT

Take all the politicians benefits away. They steal enough to get along.

Len T
Len T - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:58AM EDT

Bail out Calif. instead. The banks are not doing anybody any favors,

__A_YAHOO_USER__
__A_YAHOO_USER__ - Wednesday July 01, 2009 08:59AM EDT

Toxic Debt is always worse than Toxic Assets.

C
C - Wednesday July 01, 2009 09:01AM EDT

Hey, Marx, Don't ask the question. We can't stand the answer!

ken n
ken n - Wednesday July 01, 2009 09:11AM EDT

US has the best congress money can buy.

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday July 01, 2009 09:18AM EDT

Why should we bail out CA? They were dumb enough to elect Pelosi and other comucrats - let them fail!! And why should we believe anything coming out of this administration? CAP & Trade will be the final nail in the coffin that was once the U.S. economy. It will destroy our coal industry and the legislature, according to Alan Carlin (EPA Anlyst) is based on an out dated study - google Competitive Enterprise Institute for Alan's report! Then call your Senators or you will be sorry!

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