Cram School Confidential: Korean Students Becoming World's Best

One of the things that annoys me on these message boards is how some people seem to continually misrepresent what a liberal arts college education is all about. For those of you that thing that liberal arts somehow means liberal leaning, let me help you understand. I attended a liberal arts college. What is required is that a student must choose a major field of study; biology, pre-med, pre-law, history, business admin, accounting, nursing, chemistry, etc.. Next, the student also had to have what is known as a Professional Minor from one of the other fields of study...so a business student, like I was, had to have a minor in either the sciences or the humanties. I personally chose human biology. Furthermore, I also had to have a number of classes from the humanties (literature, philosophy, etc.). The idea is to produce a graduate with a broad understanding of different subject matters. Frankly, this has some in handy over the years. My English classes (including technical writing) has made it possible for me to do well when asked to write company reports, business press releases and also write user manuals for consumers. So, please, those of you that keep putting-down graduates of liberal arts institutions, get your facts straight before you post your wrong assumptions and make yourself look foolish. (By the way, the college I went to had one of the highest number of pre-med students that were accepted and graduated from medical schools.)

Education is a wonderful thing. But, as some have clearly stated on this message board, it means different things to different people. Education for the sake of scoring high on college entrance exams is not the same as a real world education that also provides a sense of emotional maturity. Thomas Edison is known for his inventions, yet he had very little formal education in the sciences. Abraham Lincoln was home schooled in a log cabin in rural Kentucky. Bill Gates is a college drop-out. Former world chess champion, Bobby Fischer was a high school drop-out. I guess what I am saying is, the there book learnin only gets you so far.

The Koreans really go to the Xtreme!!! Did you see how many metals they won in the 2008 O compare to their nation and population. Wow. We need to push our kids more. That's it, I'm taking away Barney. LOL

"Unlike in America, though, where parents choose between paying for private school or using the public system"....Aaron, can you word the situation any more in fantasy land? Very few parents in the US choose between private or public school: most default to public because they have been taught the lesson that the government will take care of you........and by extension, your kids. Sadly, they do not. Even as teachers' salaries have increased, the number of teachers who hold masters degrees has increased, classrooms have reduced in size and federal dollars have been spent on education, standardized test scores have decreased. What really matters is that attention is given to schools on a local level. The federalization of public schools in America has ruined our education. David Sternberg

"Unlike in America, though, where parents choose between paying for private school or using the public system"....Aaron, can you word the situation any more in fantasy land? Very few parents in the US choose between private or public school: most default to public because they have been taught the lesson that the government will take care of you........and by extension, your kids. Sadly, they do not. Even as teachers' salaries have increased, the number of teachers who hold masters degrees has increased, classrooms have reduced in size and federal dollars have been spent on education, standardized test scores have decreased. What really matters is that attention is given to schools on a local level. The federalization of public schools in America has ruined our education. David Sternberg

1. Korea is a small country, just like Germany and Netherland. 2. Their populations are way less than U.S.A; if they can excel then they got to be studying very... very hard to achieve high scores. 3. Of course, English is the 2nd language for these people; then it would be difficult for them to speak English fluently if their daily language is not English. Would you be able to speak Korean if you only read the book ? 4. Their children spend lots of times after school to do homework at home; more than the 30 minutes that is asked by the parents in the U.S.A. If the schools in Asia only ask the students to do 30 minutes in homework; then that schools need to be evaluated. If the school in U.S.A is asking students to do more than 30 minutes in homework; then the parents would sue the schools for abusing their children ! ! ! ! 5. There are time for play, but children really need to spend more time to study and to do homework. Remember, Korea is next to China and not far from India... the region is growing fast.

My Business degree says Bachelor's in Science not Arts. Chemistry and biology are science also not arts. When people rag on Liberal arts, they rag on the degree not the school. Psychology, philosophy and recreation, etc are the degrees meant when someone rails on Liberal Arts. They are fluff degrees for the most part; although a masters in psychology looked pretty tough; because of all the studies and practical labs.

To the Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday September 03, 2008 09:20PM EDT who wrote "we should have wiped out those people when we had the chance , now we got to compete with them in the work place................this doesn't make any sense" What doesn't make sense is how dense you must be to post something that makes you sound so whiny. If you think you cannot compete with these students who can't speak English in your own native English workplace, you deserve to be left to feel like a loser that you imagine you are.

Both systems work for the enviroments they cater to. Clearly the US is no slouch when it comes to innovations and creativity. The computer, internet,semiconductor, printer, digital imaging..and the cell phone, all US inventions. As for quality of life...really where would you rather raise your children. It's no coincidence that South Korean students are so numerous in the US. Go to Exeter and just count how many Korean students there are. Sure their high schools are better than ours statistically...but as for universities...we're tops. As long as that's the case..we'll attract the best and the brightest from around the world. If we're not so dumb to kick them out after we educate them, maybe we can retain the edge we have.

After seeing this video I was not shocked, but I was shocked at some of the comments. I work for a global company with offices around the world. I have alot of contact with other nations and I know how behind our education system is compared to other nations. I have so little faith in our public education system that we are home schooling our first grader and before I get a slew of comments demonizing me first and foremost. 1) If I was to put him in a public school tomorrow his math skills alone would land him in the 3rd grade. 2) He is outgoing and gets along great with his peers and has lots of friends in church his own age. The argument that home school kids are socially inept is a fallacy dervied from ancedotal evidence from extreme cases. 3) He is more prepared for the world and he can pick his career, instead of his career picking him. I don't want to limit his choices or deny him his childhood. My advice to all parents who care about their children's future is to start early and be active in their child's education. Strike a balance between education and childhood but start early. A future is the greatest gift you can give them and unfortunately while many of you think that these cram schools are excessive they do produce results. IWhile these schools are excessive, it just goes to show you what people are willing to do to get ahead. A degree from a top university = choices, period.

After seeing this video I was not shocked, but I was shocked at some of the comments. I work for a global company with offices around the world. I have alot of contact with other nations and I know how behind our education system is compared to other nations. I have so little faith in our public education system that we are home schooling our first grader and before I get a slew of comments demonizing me first and foremost. 1) If I was to put him in a public school tomorrow his math skills alone would land him in the 3rd grade. 2) He is outgoing and gets along great with his peers and has lots of friends in church his own age. The argument that home school kids are socially inept is a fallacy dervied from ancedotal evidence from extreme cases. 3) He is more prepared for the world and he can pick his career, instead of his career picking him. I don't want to limit his choices or deny him his childhood. My advice to all parents who care about their children's future is to start early and be active in their child's education. Strike a balance between education and childhood but start early. A future is the greatest gift you can give them and unfortunately while many of you think that these cram schools are excessive they do produce results. IWhile these schools are excessive, it just goes to show you what people are willing to do to get ahead. A degree from a top university = choices, period.

That is very common to the oriental race.They like to study if possible stay at the school long not only Korea but Philippine too a Malaysia and Singapore they have exclusive school to those who can afford the expensive cost but the result is very good.

Before I went to graduate school I had heard about the superior Asian students. I was soon surprised. They worked like crazy-especially the Chinese-but had no special educational advantage. A lot of the schools they had gone to weren't that good, and as a result their detailed grasp of some subjects was lacking. The difference here in the US is if you want to learn you can, or you can just get by. Just getting by in some of these Asian cultures is not an option. As a result, our top people are still the best in the World, but we have a lot more flotsam.

That's amazing!! My hat off to those kids who are definitely doing waaaay better than American kids, BUT, our cultures are different, so you can't really compare which kids are "smarter", yeah they go to school and stuff themselves with information, but America has come so far internationally in many things without us having to do hagwon-type schooling. Again, those kids are bright and they deserve every praise for their efforts, but in the end, America and Korea just have two very different cultures.

What's the deal with all these korea stories?

I strongly favor US system which gives space for creativity and innovative thinking. Let children play, spend time with their peers in their own way, enjoy while they are kids.

To the Yahoo! Finance User - Wednesday September 03, 2008 09:20PM EDT who wrote "we should have wiped out those people when we had the chance , now we got to compete with them in the work place................this doesn't make any sense". You must be thinking of the North Koreans or the Vietnamese. Either way you are a numbnut!

The education system in Korea has its issues but not the kind of issues that US has where schools are desparately trying to prevent its students from failing the basic tests. America has seen its great days for being the front runner for many years while other foreign countries were trying to catch up in the past. The thing is...in recent history, other countries have caught up and America does not seem to realize that. Just go out to parking lot and count foreign cars Vs American cars. And American cars companies are dying! Just go home and look at how many foreign electronics you own. Just go to top universities and count foreign professors Vs Americans. America got by okay, thanks to frontiers in the past who made the sure footed foundation. But in the future, our young generation who can barely pass basic exams will be competing against people who excel in just about everything else in the future. America needs to wake up. Free thinking is important as some poster mentioned. But one can hardly make anything out of it while flipping burgers after dropping out of high school and college. All the mean while, foreign people who are supposed to lack free thinking will obtain jobs that allow them to think freely and actually make something out of it. I have to bring up car industry again. American car companies thought they would be okay since they were the first ones to excel in the industry and did not pay attention to how others were struggling to catch up. Look where that took them, even Americans won't buy American cars because they stink. If all things stay the same, I dare to make an assumtion. In the future, American companies won't hire American workers because they stink compare to other elite foreign workers. So instead of making a mockery of what other countries are doing to excel, how about a minute to think about where we are and where we could be.

I couldn't agree more, than with the previous poster, above me, as I too have taught in all three types of schools. I now tch at a Korean University, (5 years) and have come to the conclusion that this is a "memorise, test, and slot" into different levels. I have University students who have studied in middle school, 3 hours a week, same for high school, (6 years) who honestly will not ask "Teacher may I use the washroom". It's usually "teacher...toilet" , with no concept that they are calling you a toilet. They are socially way behind western ways, as they have been cooped up in massive high rise complex apartments, every night. It's not their fault. They can be very warm, and make some efforts to speak, but most are at a loss on how to communicate. It is a "pressure cooker" adolesence, with a high suicide rate for teens. They are trapped in a consumer society who has taken "keeping up with the Joneses" to an extreme. Those kids studied in an english speaking country. If you went to the middle class areas of Seoul, or any, middle rank University, and started interviewing them, you might get" english, I study very hard". What do you do in your free time? Me..........oh play computer games. The whole focus here is get your kid into a high ranking University, right from, say age 10. High schools are test taking machines. Write the test and them forget the stuff. They have schools online, with 5000 kids all studying, or watching a teacher in a private classroom. It is not skills development. The name of the game here is scores marks tests. Why? Because the better employers won't even look at a resume, if it is from a "weak" school. It goes in the trash. My girlfriend here, Korean, said that the University that you graduated from, will certainly be discussed, by the second date. Rank here is set by apartment size and builder, and location. Massive amounts of money are wasted here on english, in terms of applying what you have studied. Reading skills are pretty good, with listening next, lower still writing, and lastly speaking. The government knows this, and is trying to force the Korean teachers to teach in english, but they are araid of "losing face" because they have limited speaking experience, as they went through the same system. The only time that speaking or seriously applying english will be when the University entrance (Sat) exams measure it. Universities here, are very stratified, and the Government does not allow separate entrance exams, from the Universities. Students on sports scholarships rarely attend classes, and if they do show up for exams, often they write their names on them, sit for 5 min. and walk out, and Profs are required by their Universities to pass them, with the pressure of job loss should they do otherwise. The top 4 Universities, (one for women only) do produce very espectable graduates, but on the whole the standards are lax. High schools kids "pass out" at their desks from exhaustion. After these "hakwans",they study until 1 or 2 am,. and start all over again. But remember the goal here is get in a top ranked school. Most men would have no idea how to jump start a car battery. They would call a lower rank guy to come and do it. But progress is being made. Most public schools, (Middle and Elementary) have foreign teachers who force the kids to listen in english, as we don't speak Korean. The kids are geeting keener to pick up speaking skills, but they know they will not be tested on speaking, so less emphasis is placed there. Also the Parents are not that interested in "english only learning environments" as the focus is on scores, not skills, and it is much easier for Korean teachers to get the testing taking skills into their heads speaking in Korean. Generally they have a long way to go to reach a general speaking/working knowledge of english. I am tired. First week of classes. Could be a few errors in syntax, spelling, but I am beat. Lets hope the kids somehow can escape the maddness of these hakwans here, at least someday....

Some points of note: 1. Interview smacks of "buddy promotion." Notice that the CEO of Yahoo Korea was interviewed (and we're on Yahoo finance), along with "the owner of Korea's #1 hagwon." 2. That guy didn't just waltz into Korea and set up those interviews. It's painfully obvious that this was a preconceived story floated out there by a Korean at Yahoo -- probably the CEO. What was the purpose? To help a friend? To make Korea look good? I live in Korea. The hagwons are dying here, because the government is worried Korean families are paying to much for schooling. It's a terrible hardship for Korean families to pay guys like the hagwon owner in this interview. The government has been placing foreign Englsh teachers in public schools in an attempt to kill the hagwon culture. It's working (hagwons are closing in droves), but as mentioned before, the hagwons are just moving overseas and out of control of the government. So more money is spent by parents.