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Already Burned, Madoff Victims Now Face "Clawbacks"

Posted Jul 10, 2009 11:01am EDT by Peter Gorenstein in Investing, Recession

Last week U.S. District Judge Denny Chin guaranteed scammer Bernard Madoff would spend the rest of his life in prison – sentencing him to 150 years behind bars.  But as Tech Ticker learned first hand at last week's sentencing hearing, the financial woes are just beginning for many of his victims'.

Court-appointed trustee Irving Picard has recovered about $1.2 billion of $13.2 billion in estimated net losses so far, The Wall Street Journal reports. He is now looking to victims who pulled out their money in previous years for the rest.  To this end, he has filed so-called "clawback" suits.

Picard wants "to get all of these assets back so he can now give them to all of Madoff victims rather than have them only benefit a few," says Ken Rubinstein,  senior partner at Rubinstein & Rubinstein, and a specialist in areas of estate and tax planning.

What's a victim in this situation to do?  Rubinstein, who represents a number of Madoff clients, is telling them to engage in pre-bankruptcy planning.  "You're allowed under the law to convert non-exempt assets… into exempt assets."  In plain English, that means put your money where the government (or Irving Picard) can't touch it.  Such exempt assets include life insurance policies, retirement accounts and annuities.

On the bright side, there is a chance some of these same victims can get back money from the IRS.  In what may be a rare moment of positive PR for the tax authority, they are allowing victims to get refunds on phantom profits by filing an amended return.  Rubinstein says, "The IRS is cooperating and helpful in this regard."  A phrase not often uttered in America.

161 Comments

jack
jack - Friday July 10, 2009 11:49AM EDT

My wife and i were scamed back in 2004 by Brian Winters and Global Trading in New Jersey. We did not get 1 penny from the assets that were recovered. All we got were notices from the BK attorney for fees that were billled to him for services by third parties. I hope that I may recieve money back if the IRS allows this!

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Friday July 10, 2009 11:52AM EDT

More like 6,500 within the next month.

__A_YAHOO_USER__
__A_YAHOO_USER__ - Friday July 10, 2009 11:53AM EDT

johnny get real, i like your attitude, but your opinions are not realistic. The first thing they should do is get all that money from Maddoff's wife, and then his sons.

Polski
Polski - Friday July 10, 2009 11:54AM EDT

Read the SEC Filings on a daily basis. My advisor states Fraud is an accepted way of doing business in the Stock Market, it is a matter of when you make money don't complain, only, if not! See SEC Litigations #21101, 21105, 21108, 21114, 20861, 20902, 21042, 21044, 21065-66, 21090-92, 21097-98, 20949. All 2009, read and make your decision? Pay the fine, business as usual! Many/all are selling stock as we read!

big colby cheese
big colby cheese - Friday July 10, 2009 12:03PM EDT

Dont ever use an investment advisor who doesnt use a third party custodian...."exempt and non exempt assets" also apply to getting Medicaid benefits for Long Term Care and Veterans Benefits for up to 23k per year for LTC"....google veterans benefits, aid and attendance, askcolby.net

sonsofliberty
sonsofliberty - Friday July 10, 2009 12:03PM EDT

When you lack substance..rely on form...Too many think that correcting grammar or spelling on a post lessens the impact of the message...Remember all Twits disguise their insipid vapid thoughts by correcting others...probably a second rate teacher..

Polski
Polski - Friday July 10, 2009 12:04PM EDT

Added note: Should have added earlier, if we Deduct the companies from the DOW, NASDAQ, etc, based on false filings, what happens to the Market, when a high % (51%+minus) are eliminated? See: Sarbanes Oxley Act? Why do you think this Act was passed?

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Friday July 10, 2009 12:19PM EDT

The greatest scammer is our government that takes our money and gives it to Acorn, foreign aid ( consider how many billions we've given in foreign aid to countries that hate us and these countries are still poor because the money ends up in some corrupt politician's bank account!) and all sorts of non-profits that are fronts for activists destroying our nation. I wish I could get some of the money back that has been stolen from my paycheck for all sort of frivolus crap!!!

Tell it like it is...
Tell it like it is... - Friday July 10, 2009 12:23PM EDT

And they should now charge the attorney suggesting that people hide their money should be charged as an accessory. He's aiding and abetting a criminal and there's laws against that.

Polski
Polski - Friday July 10, 2009 12:25PM EDT

Mr Madoff will become a Role-Model for the Harvard School of Business "Case Program", on: "How to do it, Manuals"! He scored the American Dream based on Education, both Freudian (anal manifestations), and Financial aspirations. It is there in the College texts?

alice
alice - Friday July 10, 2009 12:25PM EDT

fulfords - Friday July 10, 2009 11:38AM EDT I don't understand. If these people thought it was a scam but could not get the SEC to investigate, what were they supposed to do? This really seems like the people who were smart and figured out the scam are being punished for doing their due diligence. If they knew it was a scam, and seemed sure enough to withdraw their money, then they also knew of ill gotten gains, and not reporting it to the SEC.

Bill Z
Bill Z - Friday July 10, 2009 12:25PM EDT

Dick: Don't let these folks make you feel bad. The joooo 's are screwing the USA over and over

shags1_23
shags1_23 - Friday July 10, 2009 12:26PM EDT

dlryan63 - Friday July 10, 2009 11:12AM EDT What happened to FAZ yesterday? Is it a mistake or did it go up approx. 50.00 per share in one day? ====================================== FAZ had a reverse split of 1 to 10, and FAS had a reverse split of 1 to 7. Both seemed to shoot through the roof, but it was just a good, old reverse split.

shags1_23
shags1_23 - Friday July 10, 2009 12:27PM EDT

Oops, got that backwards: FAZ had a 10 to 1 reverse split and FAS had a 7 to 1 reverse split.

Ray
Ray - Friday July 10, 2009 12:28PM EDT

It is interesting how stolen investment money can never be found. They can find every key stroke on the internet.

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Friday July 10, 2009 12:30PM EDT

The act of being generous means that we are geared toward giving.... We're willing to let go of things...our time, money, and so forth...

LovePizzaHut
LovePizzaHut - Friday July 10, 2009 12:33PM EDT

Who wins in the end? As always, the blood sucker attorneys.

Storm trooper
Storm trooper - Friday July 10, 2009 12:37PM EDT

For everyones information. Companies like Goldman Sachs, Vanguard & Merrill Lynch self clear. What that means is, they are just like Madoff, no 3rd party custodian to watch over them. P.S. Khin Leen. what the heck are you talking about?? I guess lottery winners are all SOBS too huh. To Len T. unrealistic gains? during the late 90's the average Madoff investor earned 15% per year. The S&P and NASDAQ popped off 25% ++ during that time. Not all people were greedy. We had the SEC and NASD ( FINRA now) watching over the former Chairman of the NASDAQ. We had the IRS taking tax money from all of us including Madoff. We had the whole Wall Street community watching. No one said peep. The Goverment was seriously negligant.sp? And yet offers no apologies. Victims are losing there homes while the SIPC slowly pays out claims. After the Titanic accident the Carpathia didnt float around thinking about who to pick up 1st. They helped the people then sorted out everything else. Add insult to injury when people who dont have the facts start blaming the victims for this crime. the US Goverment will not save you. Social Security will be bankrupt. Obviously it is up us to save for our retirement and our future. The Goverment is useless.

frisky07
frisky07 - Friday July 10, 2009 12:38PM EDT

Congress passed special laws to help WEALTHY Madoff "victims". Which is one the biggest pieces of BS ever: the so-called "victims" were very well off/wealthy already,and got GREEDY.NO one forced them to invest with Madoff.They were propelled by unmitigated,vile,GREEDINESS. They KNEW exactly what they were doing and the risks they were taking.They shouldn't be given special treatment.And they get to take some losses per the IRS. More BS from the special interests. The Obama administration NEEDS to give the SAME exact special treatment to ALL US tax payers!

Yahoo! Finance User
Yahoo! Finance User - Friday July 10, 2009 12:38PM EDT

So much hype over things which most of us will never understand. The fact is that their investments in his funds were PRIVATE placements and never guaranteed; the investors, as defined by the hedge funds are "sophisticated" investors so they should know what they are doing (some semblance of sarcasm inserted.) I totally agree on the earlier point of ALWAYS using a third-party administrator. If anything, Madoff helped the economy pre-Sept 2009 by spending money. Sure this whole fraud thing does not help anything post-Sept 2009, but to suggest that the world should change because another useless US governement agency proved their incompetence is ludicrous. Do not forget the Golden Rule: He who owns the gold rules.

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