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Edited Transcript of ADTB.NS earnings conference call or presentation 7-Nov-19 12:00pm GMT

Q2 2020 Aditya Birla Capital Ltd Earnings Call

Nov 21, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Aditya Birla Capital Ltd earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 12:00:00pm GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* A. Balasubramanian

Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO of Aditya Birla Sun Life AMC Limited

* Ajay Srinivasan

Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO

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Conference Call Participants

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* Kunal Shah

Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director

* Nischint Chawathe

Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst

* Piran Engineer

Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to the Aditya Birla Capital Limited Q2 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Ajay Srinivasan, Chief Executive, Aditya Birla Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [2]

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Thank you. Good evening and thank you, everyone, for joining this earnings call for Q2 of FY '20. We have circulated a deck with the results and much more information on each of our businesses. It's a fairly long deck. So what I'll do is over the next 40, 45 minutes, go through the main points and then give you a chance to ask some questions. I'm joined here by my senior team who will join me in answering any questions that you may have at the end of the presentation.

I'd like to start with -- on Slide 3. And Slide 3 is fairly topical given all the discussion that's going on about economic growth and including economic growth in India. So what we've done is actually mapped out both the movements of GDP as well as the movement of our aggregate profit before tax under IGAAP over the last 10 years to see how the numbers stack up. I think what it shows is basically the diversified portfolio that we built under Aditya Birla Capital has delivered returns across economic cycles. So if you look at the slide, in FY '09 we were losing about INR 650 crores. That's moved to a profit of about INR 1,900 crores in FY '19, a movement of about INR 2,500 crores. In the last 5 years alone, our figure has been about 21%. And as we value these businesses that have been matured, the 2-year CAGR of PBT is 29%. So I think this slide gives you a good snapshot of where we've come from in the last 10 years.

Moving on to Slide 4. I thought we could do a couple of things with this slide. One, if you look back, you get a good sense, in terms of each of the businesses that we have in our portfolio, how we've done over the last 5 years and also give you a sense of where we're heading over the next 3 years in terms of our aspirations and in terms of our business goals. So if I start at the top left and start with our protecting figures, which includes our life and life insurance business, if you look at the top left, you see our total gross premium has grown from about INR 4,800 crores back in FY '14 to about INR 8,000 crores at the end of FY '19. If you look at our gross VNB margin in our life business, it was about 16.2% back in FY '14, it's now about 36.3%. If you look at our 13-month persistency, it was about 60% back in FY '14, it's now up to 80%. If you look at our EV, we actually had a slight decrease in EV in FY '14 because we had a buyback of shares that year. However, EV was broadly flat. Compared to that, we have a 14.4% growth in EV of half year of '20 over half year of '19. And health insurance, which never existed in FY '14, has grown very strongly and our combined ratio in the first half of FY '20 is 155% en route and in line with the direction we've been sharing with the market.

If I look forward and talk about 3-year aspiration for our life and health insurance business, in the life business we're looking at increasing the share of protection in the overall mix roughly to between 10% to 12%. We think that and a combination of volume and mix change will lead to an LI net VNB of between 18% to 20% in 3 years. That's the number we are targeting in a 3-year time frame. Health insurance, we've already shared before, we expect to break even in '21, '22, and we expect GWP to be roughly in the range of INR 1,700 crores to INR 2,000 crores in that time frame.

Moving on to the second bucket of our portfolio, which is our investing bucket, we are only going to talk about our mutual fund here. Our mutual fund domestic AUM was about INR 82,000 crores in FY '14, it's now risen to about INR 2,53,000 crores in the first half of FY '20. Our equity market share was about 5.8% at that time, it's now up to 8.5%. We had about 13% of our total AUM in equity, is now up to 36%. We used to be about INR 96 crores per month in SIP, now it's up to about INR 970 crores. And our profit before tax was about 17 basis points then, is now up to 28 basis points.

Looking forward, our asset management business will look to increase share of both retail and equity as we go forward. Get to about 40% equity mix in our total mix. And I think combination of that and the retailization of the portfolio should give us a PAT growth of about 15% to 20% in the 3-year period.

Moving on to our financing bucket, which -- that includes our NBFC and our housing finance company. As you can see, the lending book has actually increased quite smartly from about INR 11,700 crores back then to about INR 60,500 crores now. Our NIM has expanded from about 5.1% to 5.3%. Our GNPA has remained virtually steady, because the 1.85% includes some ones that are IL&FS. Net of IL&FS our net GNPA would be about 1.29%. So really quite flat over the 5-year period. Housing finance company never existed in FY '14 and that has an ROE of 10.2% for the half year of FY '20. Our lending net worth, which is about INR 1,700 crores in FY '14, has risen to over INR 9,000 crores in FY '20.

So you can see across the board, very strong performance in our lending businesses as well.

Going forward, our aspiration in the lending business clearly is to continue to focus on retail growth, something we've been calling out and we've been showing you every quarter. That should lead to an NBFC ROE of between 17% to 18% and an HFC ROE of between 14% to 15% in the 3-year time frame that we're setting out on this slide.

I also want to cover some of our other businesses because we do have other businesses we don't normally talk about at these calls, and they do different things for us. And I want to talk about 2 businesses specifically. If you look at our general insurance broking business, that is a business that has gone increasingly retail over the 5-year period that is covered on this slide. We used to have about 0.3 million customers back in FY '14. We now have close to 4 million customers to our retail trust in this business. In a very fractured and a disparate market, our market share has actually doubled in this unit from about 1.1% to 2.2%. Our ROE in this business would be, and other businesses are -- is a high ROE generating business, generated about 34% ROE in the half year of FY '20.

If you look at our stockbroking business, we were losing money back in FY '14. That business has turned around and now generates close to a 47% ROE for us. So these other businesses that I'm talking about on this slide are really businesses that help -- that we think will both contribute customers to the overall ABC umbrella as well as contribute to ROE.

I want to move on to Slide 5 now and talk about the recent environment and all the challenges that everybody has been talking about in the business world. I'll talk about 6 things that we have done to be able to deal with the environment that we're operating in.

Starting with the top left, we started out by making sure that we could secure long-term growth capital at Aditya Birla Capital level. We raised INR 2,100 crores of equity capital through preferential allotment to both marquee investors as well as the promoter/promoter group. This was at a price of INR 100 per share premium over the traded price. In a market where the risk has clearly become much more apparent, we've done much greater diligence in underwriting with approval rates coming down by about 10% to 15% across our lending businesses. We have consciously reduced ticket prices across the board. I'll share some of that data with you in a bit. And we've continued to focus on quality of our growth because we realized that this is a time where we have to be much more watchful. In an environment where liquidity is at premium, we have actually raised long-term borrowing of INR 8,000 crores in our lending business. We have optimized our ALM in our lending businesses, and I will share with you what lending profile -- what our ALM profile looks like in both our NBFC and HFC. And we've further diversified our borrowing profile with opening up the ECB window for both our NBFC and our HFC.

We've also looked to optimize our portfolio by aligning other businesses. And if you look at our PBT from other businesses in the last half year, we actually lost INR 2 crores from our other businesses. This half year, that's going to a profit of INR 39 crores, so a very significant move in terms of aligning our other businesses to generate profit for us. The equity fund raise will also help us reduce interest costs at Aditya Birla Capital level, and we expect that to be about INR 100 crores reduction over the course of the year.

Focus on quality has been something that we've always stood for. Our stage-3 book for our NBFC, ex IL&FS, stands at about 1.39%, and then our housing finance company at 0.85%. In the -- in our life business, persistency has been a big focus area for us, and our 13-month persistency is now plus 80% compared to 74% for the half year in FY '19. In our health insurance business, our retail claim ratio at 44% this half year is lower than the 48% that we had in the half year in the prior year.

I want to spend a little time talking about technology, something we haven't spoken about before. But there are really 3 things we're trying to drive through technology. The first, to improve customer, distributor and employee experience. We think this is a big thing that technology can help us deliver. We also think technology can help us find ways of growing revenue. And third, we think technology can help us build a more robust, scalable business model.

So if you look at Slide 6, we've broken some of our technology initiatives into these 3 buckets, into initiatives that are going to deliver better experience for us, initiatives that will drive greater revenue and initiatives that will drive an improved operating model. I'm not going to talk about all of these, that's the good news. I'm just going to about 4 or 5 points on this slide that I want to specifically highlight.

Let me first talk about the One ABC login ID that I've spoken about. So while we have several businesses housed under different legal entities, to our customer, our view is always we want to go with one face. So on our website, which we have over 1 million people, who have availed themselves of our One ABC ID, which enables them to login at the ABC level and see all their product holdings at one place. So be it a life insurance policy or mutual fund or a loan account, our customers get to see them and get product services on a single screen. They will also get to see our analytics-driven Next-best-offer, suggesting [free] pre-purchase options that they have to fulfill other financial needs that they may have.

We follow the same approach in our call center as well, where we have one common toll free number across all our product lines. Also, our customers wanting multiple products with different business links get serviced at one place in our call center instead of having to call up different businesses separately.

I want to again talk about our Office-in-a-box approach for our distributor and partners. As you know, the large part of our business comes from our distributors and partners, and we continue to evolve robust technology platforms to continue [pace-setting functioning]. Our Office-in-a-Box concept for our distributors provides them several tools and utilities to help them in customer profiling, leads analysis, leads management, customer onboarding and servicing with a 360-degree view of all their sourcing at one place.

To help them manage their business with us in the most optimum way, our distributors get onboarded digitally, have direct access to our advanced training documents, and their performance and reward management dashboards are also available here.

The third thing I'd like to call out in terms of our better experience is in terms of our digital loan origination system. In our lending business, we're developing an integrated digital platform to onboard customers seamlessly across a number of our product lines, like personal loans, business loans and LAP, by the end of Q4. This platform will be OCR, video, BPM and machine learning enabled, and we help capture new loan applications by a distributor at the point of origination, to find the customer and associated risks digitally and underwrite loans much faster with better credit risk management.

Moving on to the revenue bucket. I want to talk about analytics and what we've done in analytics over the years, because a few years back we invested in an enterprise level data warehouse and analytics capability, which is helping us reap rich benefits. At ABC, we have this unique ability to offer solutions to our customers through their life cycle from cradle to grave. We use machine learning techniques to help customer build life cycle models, which help us provide our customers and offer them suitable products and services to cater to their (inaudible) unfulfilled financial needs. So this is an example, this capability is being used by us to drive our persistency up and to reduce our policy surrenders in our life insurance business.

We are also using technology in terms of the HR practices. So extending a similar capability to our own employees. We are now leveraging machine learning-based technology in our sales offer hiring. We have a large sales force and various types of data over time, and we're using this to be able to build models to map out path-to-success profiles, hire people accordingly using digital-enabled capability assessment modules, and also predict talent attrition ahead of time so that we can take suitable preventive measures.

And last, in terms of improving the operating model, I want to just call out a couple of things here. In our personal loan business, for instance, is using advanced analytics for risk-based pricing, early fraud detection and full payment behavior prediction. And we've also done a whole host of work around automation of key processes. So through robotic process automation, we're getting actually a big enabler to our business. We've taken a very structured approach to automation where we valued all our key processes on certain parameters to assign an automation index. Based on the number of sources of data and how lengthy or complex the process is, we've set guidelines to decide how to go about automating each process. We built close to 100 robots in our businesses, and we expect to double this over the course of the next year.

Moving on with Slide 7. I want to share with you an initiative we've recently done with the start-up ecosystem that operates both in India and abroad. Bizlabs -- Aditya Birla Bizlabs is basically a platform to leverage this innovation ecosystem so that we could address some key focus areas through collaborating with advanced fintech capabilities. So what we did was to reach out to start-ups, both in India and abroad, and ask them to help us address some of the key focus areas that we have to businesses that we already have in place. And we had a 3-month fast-track program and saw about 570 start-ups responding to us to help us work on these focus areas. And we've now identified some of these start-ups, and we're going to work with them in the 5 areas that I'm calling out before, which is in terms of data analytics, in terms of targeting new customer segments, in terms of building cross-sell capability, in terms of boosting frontline productivity and in terms of digitizing our processes. The collaboration with these start-ups into these pilots, we think, will help us again continue to better experience, improve revenue and improve our operating model.

Let me now move on to the numbers, and we'll start with the results for Q2 and the half year, and we'll move on to Slide 8. So if you look at each of our businesses, I'll start with our life insurance business. So for the first half of the year, our APE grew by 20%, which was significantly ahead of the industry, which grew at about 11%. So we obviously gained market share. Our life insurance net VNB margin improved by 250 basis points in the first half of the year and our embedded value grew by 14.4% year-on-year. Our health insurance business continued to have strong growth, and our Q2 GWP grew by 70% year-on-year with the retail mix standing at 69%. Our asset management business had a big boost from the tax cuts and the Q2 AMC PAT increased by 40% year-on-year with a PBT to average AUM at 27 basis points, which is about 3 basis points higher than it was last year same time.

Our NBFC Q2 NIM expanded by 64 basis points year-on-year and our Q2 NII grew by 20% year-on-year. Our NBFC H1 PAT grew by 24% year-on-year. If we adjust for the deferred tax adjustment that we've had to make, that adjustment to ROE and ROA also leads to a 15% ROE and a 2.2% ROA on an annualized basis. Our refinance business also had a deferred tax asset. Adjusting for that, our Q2 PAT grew by 2.5x year-on-year. The ROE and ROA with this business, again adjusted for that deferred tax asset, would be about 10.2% and 1%, respectively. And lastly, we launched an ARC platform as a joint venture with Varde. The ARC platform which we've launched has turned profitable in the first year of operations.

Let me now share some of the aggregate numbers to Slide 9 and 10. So Slide 9 will give you the quarterly numbers. As you can see from the left hand side of the slide, our revenue has grown by about 8%, Q2 FY '20 over Q2 FY '19, and our PAT has grown by 37%, Q2 FY '20 Q2 over FY '19. I think what I'd like to call out on this slide is that our NBFC size is actually grown by about 6%, Q2 '19 to Q2 '20. Even with our largest business growing at 6%, the platform has pre-delivered a PAT growth of 37%, and that really is this diversified business opportunity that I keep calling out on every investor call.

Moving on to Slide 10, which will give you the numbers for the half year. You see our revenue for the half year is up by 12% and PAT is up by 32%. Adjusting for the deferred tax asset, actually our half year PAT would have grown by 47% had we not taken the adjustment to the deferred tax assets that we have in our NBFC and our housing finance group. So excluding that, our profit growth would have been 47%. Taking that into account, our reported numbers show a 32% half year growth in profit after tax.

And if you look at the right hand side of the slide, I think what is very interesting about this slide and (inaudible) of Aditya Birla Capital is the fact that you can see profit growth and consistency of profit growth across the entire spectrum of businesses that we run. So you'll see our NBFC profitability, asset management, life insurance, housing, general insurance, broking and securities broking [that have a] profitability, have all grown smartly. So our total profitable businesses growth in terms of PBT was 21%, and our aggregate PBT grew by 26%, against which our PAT has grown by 32%.

Let me now jump into the individual businesses, and I want to start with our NBFC and start with Slide 12. What we've done on Slide 12 is actually give you a bit of a perspective about how the NBFC has moved over the last 5 years. A lot has happened in these 5 years, and more so over the last year and a bit. And what we're doing is actually calling out the changes that have happened in this 5-year period and then you can look at the metrics before you. You see how resilient this business has been over this 5-year period. So over this 5-year period, we've seen an increase in defaults across multiple sectors. We've seen an NBFC crisis. We've seen a very significant slowdown in the economy. We've seen credit provisioning norms changing from 180 days to 90 days between FY '14 and FY '18. And NBFCs have moved from IGAAP to ECL, which has a very different methodology and [policy] for provisioning compared to what IGAAP used to have. Through that entire change, if you look at our metrics, as I said, you'll see how resilient this business has been and how the business has grown on every metric between FY '14 and FY '20.

As I called out in the earlier slides, our 3-year aspiration here is to continue to grow our retail loan book by expanding, and that should lead to an expansion of our margins. We will have to open additional branches so that we can continue to drive the retail growth strategy that we're talking about. But we're equally going to leverage tech platforms to make sure that we can manage our cost effectively and keep our costs under control and make the experience better for both our distributors and our customers. As I said earlier, the target ROE we have for this business is between 17% and 18% in a 3-year time frame.

Moving on to the quarter and the results for the NBFC on Slide 13. You'll see our SME and retail loan book grew by about 14% year-on-year. I'm calling it out specifically because we've always said that this is a focus area for us in terms of growth and that has grown even though the overall book has stayed flat. Our SME and retail loan book has actually grown by about 14% year-on-year. As a result of that, our net interest income has grown by about 20% year-on-year on Q2 and we've expanded our margins. Q2 PAT, adjusting for the deferred tax asset that we hold, would have been INR 273 crores, growth of 32% year-on-year. The reported PAT is INR 218 crores, which is a growth of 6% year-on-year. Adjusting for the deferred tax asset again, which is a onetime impact, our ROE would be about 15% on an annualized basis and ROA would be about 2.2% on an annualized basis.

I want to spend some time talking about our individual segments, and I'll give you a bit more color on our portfolios here on Slide 14 and 15.

So Slide 14, we'll call out the way we traditionally do the 3 segments that we are -- that we cover under the SME, retail and HNI, and the various products that we have under this all seem to be [customer needs]. I'm not going to spend time on the top of the slide. Let me just talk about some of the things that we've done because, as I said earlier in the opening, you would see that our SME average ticket size is down about 24% year-on-year to INR 5 crores. We continue to focus on secured term loans and WCDL segment, which has grown about 30% year-on-year. This segment is backed by cash flows and has adequate security cover.

Our LAP average ticket size has come down by 27% year-on-year to about INR 2.3 crores down. Our LAP LTV is 50%, so gives us an adequate cushion. We've been very selective in the LRD because rates and margins have been all over the place there, and that has degrown by about 6% year-on-year.

In retail, our average ticket size is INR 6 lakhs. We continue to grow our retail book, continue to price in credit risk adequately, and we've identified new segments for growth in travel, health care and education.

Our loan against share portfolio is actually reduced about 27% year-over-year. We have no stage-3 exposure in our LAS book, and about 80% of our LAS exposure is in securities of companies having market cap over INR 10,000 crores. So you can imagine fairly liquid securities.

Let me move on to Slide 15, which talks about our large and mid corporate loan book. And I want to talk about the 4 tiles on the right hand side of the slide. I want to first start with the overall portfolio. As you see it on the table on the left, our structured finance book has actually reduced over the period. It was at about 17% of our book in Q2 '19, it's down to 11% of a slightly smaller book in FY '20. That entire rundown of about 40% has happened over the course of the year because we just wanted to reduce the risk in the portfolio and reduce concentration. Our top 20 customers in our large and mid corporate book contribute about 10% of our overall loan book. Let me repeat that. Our top 20 customers in our large and mid corporate contribute 10% of our overall loan book. We have no stage-3 exposure in our top 20 exposures. And often we get asked about our exposure to the Aditya Birla Group companies; I want to clarify that we are less than 1% of our overall loan book when we compare to Aditya Birla Group.

If I move to the right hand side, I will show you how the large and mid corporate concentration works. You see across different ticket size ranges, what our customers -- the number of customers we have and the percentage of the total book. We notice that we have about 16 customers more than INR 200 crores. And given we have top 20 customers at 10%, you can verify [if you're obsessed] that therefore the balance is obviously less than INR 200 crores in terms of size.

Our project loan is about 15% of our overall loan book. Again, here, because [net] cash flow with lending, we've had very good experience. We have no stage-3 exposure, and the bulk of our exposure is to have recourse to cash flows from operational projects.

Construction finance, I must start by saying this is only about 6% of our overall loan book. So it is quite a small part of our overall book. Here, again, we have no stage-3 exposure. We have no luxury residential project exposure and over 90% of our exposure is actually to Mumbai, Pune, Bangalore, Chennai, Noida. We have no other NCR exposure in our construction balance book. 30% of our outstanding as of 30th September 2018 was actually repaid out of sales velocity -- sales proceeds in the last 1 year, indicative of the sales that are (inaudible) projects that we've backed, and that's also borne out by the fact that the actual average loan tenor for us in our construction finance book is about 2.5 years. So this is a business that is backing projects that are selling and therefore looks at velocity of sales and that is captured by the data that I've shared with you.

So where we do have stress in our corporate and large corporate book, we are adequately secured and have adequately provided for these in our accounts.

Moving on to Slide 16. Really a slide that we've shown before. We continue to maintain asset quality, as I mentioned before, ex-IL&FS, as stage-3 assets at 1.39%. The other thing is that if you look at the 1.39% at the company level, if you look at the individual segments that we've shared with you earlier, other than retail, which is slightly higher than our company average of 1.39%, and where this is adequately priced in, the other segments actually have no stage-3 exposure and no other [met] that company average number.

Moving on to Slide 17, which talks about our borrowing costs and our NIM. As you see, quarter-on-quarter, actually, our borrowing cost has come down by about 2 basis points, those scores over the period shown on the chart, and the cost of borrowing has increased. And along with the cost of borrowing, you will notice that our NIMs have increased as well. And this is a mix of -- this is a result of few things: the increasing product mix towards retail and SME and our ability to pass on borrowing cost increases, as well as, of course, prudent treasury management.

Moving on to the ALM and our lending business on Slide 18. I think if you look at the left hand side of the chart, you'll see that we've broken out our buckets into smaller buckets now so you can look at liquidity in the short-term buckets, and we are pretty much comfortable in terms of every bucket in the ALM that we've shown over here. This is being derived by raising long-term borrowing of about INR 6,000 crores in the first half of the year including ECBs. We have, we think, adequate liquidity to meet out those requirements, because we have undrawn CC lines of about INR 3,000 crores plus we have additional ECB sanctions that are lined up. Our capital adequacy continues to remain comfortable. It's in fact gone up slightly from last year, stands at about 19%.

On Slide 19, I'll just call out a couple of things on this slide since I've already spoken about a number of these items before, but basically NII for the half year up by 25%, Q-on-Q up by 21% -- 20%, and profit after tax for the half year up by 12% and for the quarter up by 6%.

Let me now move on to our housing finance business and I will take you to Slide 21. In our housing finance business, our lending book at INR 12,079 crores has grown by about 22% year-on-year. Of this, 94% of our book is retail between home loans and LAP. Our affordable book stands at about just under INR 2,000 crores. We've seen an improvement in our cost income ratio, which is being driven by both scale and operating efficiency. We continue to maintain the quality of our asset book with gross stage-3 assets at 0.85% of the book. Our Q2 PAT, as I said, adjusted for deferred tax assets, grew by 2.5% year-on-year to INR 33 crores. Our reported PAT is INR 28 crores, which, by the way, is growing -- is almost doubled year-on-year. As a result of this improvement in PAT, you'll see a significant improvement in ROE and ROA, captured on the right hand side of this slide over here.

On Slide 22, I want to share with you segment mix. As I said, we have 94% of our book which is retail. So only 6% of our book as of Q2 FY '20 is construction finance. The rest is pretty much retail LAP and pretty much retail home loans. Our average ticket size for our affordable home loans is about INR 12 lakhs. Last quarter, we had about 21% of this home loan portfolio, affordable home loan portfolio, backed by the mortgage guarantee stream. At this time, that number is up to 27%. And 48% of our affordable housing loan is eligible for PMAY subsidy.

Our average ticket size in LAP is about INR 51 lakhs, again, that's down from INR 63 lakhs last year. And again, similar to our NBFC, the loan to value here is about 47% in our retail loan book.

Construction finance in our housing finance company, again, we have no stage-3 exposure. Our average ticket size on exposure is about INR 14 crores, but in terms of outstanding is about INR 9 crores. So it's really a very diversified portfolio. Even a small amount of 6% of the total book is fairly diversified with the average ticket size of INR 9 crores. 85% of our exposure is to Bangalore, Mumbai, Pune, Surat, et cetera. So again, we have no other NCR exposure other than Noida in our business. And as it was in the case of ABSL, we have very good sales velocity in this business as well.

Slide 23, I'm not going to spend too much time on other than just saying we have a balanced distribution strategy by geography and we continue to grow in the nonmetro piece of our portfolio. The nonmetro loan book now is at 45% as compared to 42% last year.

Slide 24, it's a similar story to our NBFC. Again, we've been able to optimize the borrowing costs and been able to manage margins through the ability to pass on borrowing cost increases to our borrowers. So it is pretty similar.

As is the story on Slide 25 with our ALM. You can see again that our ALM is comfortable. We've raised a lot of borrowing of over INR 2,000 crores in our housing finance company. Again, we're looking to raise ECB in this business, and we think we've got adequate liquidity to meet our growth requirements. As I said with the NBFC, we have a comfortable capital adequacy in this book as well.

Moving on to Slide 26. I just want to call out a couple of numbers on this slide. Lending book up by about 22% and for the half year profit after tax up 2.5x, and for the quarter up by 2.1x. So strong growth and profitability, driven by the efficiency and economics coming through the business in growth.

I'll now talk about our asset management company and move to Slide 28. In our asset management business, we have maintained our overall market share, roughly 10.5%. Our fixed income market share has gone up. And we've lost a little bit of market share in equity. Domestic equity AAUM mix remains steady, about 35% of our total loan total mix. I've already mentioned earlier, our Q2 profit after tax grew strongly 40% year-on-year to INR 148 crores, and we maintained our margins on a PBT basis, PBT to AAUMs, post regulatory changes. And if you look at the slide at the bottom, between FY '18, FY '19 and FY '20, we've seen a continuous improvement in terms of the bps, where we went from 22 bps to 24 bps to 27 bps.

Slide 29, we'll talk about our retail expansion that we've been talking about every time [it appears] in our asset management company. I'll just call out a couple of numbers on this slide. If you look at the investor folios, the 5-year CAGR for investor folios for us as on FY19, asset is about 29% and for the industry it's been 15%. So we've actually grown our investor folio base significantly faster than the industry. And in terms of the monthly SIP book, the 3-year CAGR for our monthly SIP book for us has been about 33% and for the industry it's about 29%. So again, we grew faster than the industry in terms of building up our monthly SIP book as well as in terms of building up investor folios, both a conscious part of our strategy.

If you move on to Slide 30, I think I showed you a couple of things, which showed you our sourcing mix. We've also showed you some of the initiatives that we've taken in terms of our digital platform. The point really is that given we are not bank owned, we are really much more reliant on building out our distribution through [IFAs]. Of course, we do distribute to banks and national distributors as well. But IFA (inaudible) market share in equity sourcing and you'll see from the chart that we've shared here. And digital becomes a very important part of our offering as well. And these are a number of things in digital as captured on this slide on Slide 30. We have, obviously, a new investor portal. We launched micro ticket size SIP products on the digital platform. We have launched a Next-best-offer program on our website, which allows us to up-sell and the initial impact has been very good. We've also made it very easy for people to onboard through video KYC, so that has made the journey even more easy for new customers coming on board on our website.

From a distribution perspective, we've launched additionally the portal with a very simplified distributor experience, and we've paired up with several new-age digital ecosystem partners through our API gateway, which allows us again to reach a large number of customers very easily through our digital ecosystem.

And lastly, all of this has resulted in our digital transactions as a percentage of our total transactions to almost up to 75%. Last year, this number was 67%. That number is up to 75%. So about 75% of our total transactions are now digital.

Slide 31 will give you the financials of our asset management company. I'll just call out the profit after tax, really, because for the quarter, profit after tax is up by about 40%. And for the half year, profit after tax is up 28%.

Let me now move on to our life insurance business, a business that's had a very good run. So starting with our growth in our FYP, our individual FYP has grown by about 20% year-on-year, which is significantly higher than industry growth, which, as you can see from the numbers below, industry has grown by about 11%. So we've gained market share. So our market share increased to 3.8%, and we continue to be ranked #7 in terms of individual business.

For the first half of the year, our net VNB improved by about 250 basis points year-on-year, and our half year net VNB margin stood at 0.2%. For the half year, our embedded value crossed INR 5,000 crores to INR 5,031 crores. That's a growth of about 14.4% over the same period last year.

We talked about last time our focus on the group business, which is really much more about thinking about value than about volume. We've grown our risk business by about 16% year-over-year in our group business. And as you know that is a value-accretive segment to our operations.

Slide 34, we'll talk about product mix and our margins. You see that we have a fairly diversified portfolio on the left-hand side between protection, non-par, par and ULIP. I want to share with you that about 70% of the maturity benefits of our guaranteed products are protected. So we are conscious that we won't go on and run the risk of our guaranteed products and make sure that we have protected and hedged fully in terms of being able to protect the guarantee that we're providing.

On the right-hand side, you'll see our margins have grown by about -- our gross VNB has grown about 19% year-on-year. Margin has remained more or less the same at about 36.2%. Our half year net VNB margin, 0.2%, is significantly ahead than last year. At the same time last year, it was about the minus 2.3%. For Q2, our net VNB was at 5.7%, again significantly ahead of last year, which was at 2.5%.

There are a few things that have driven this growth in net VNB, partly driven by higher volume and productivity and partly driven by a better channel mix and a better product mix.

On Slide 35, we'll talk to you about our distribution and sourcing strategy. We told you earlier that we have several bank partners, including HDFC Bank, DCB and KVB. Through this bank network, we have presence across over 2,700 cities. We have 9,500 bank branches to whom we can access, and we have about just under 400 branches of our own. We have a very significant distribution presence across India. We tied up recently with Indian Bank, our first PSU bank platform, and that gives us access straightaway to about 2,900 branches. Once the merger that is underway happens with Indian Bank, this branch network should probably double from where it is now. So we have access really to a fairly large vast network through Indian Bank partnership.

Our proprietary channel, we've used in the period -- as our partnership business has grown, we've used the proprietary channel actually to drive margin improvement and value creation. You see our protection mix in our proprietary business is up to 11% -- that's a very significant amount -- and ULIP is down to 26%. This is a very value-creating mix and that has helped us actually create margin improvement at the company level through driving it through our proprietary mix.

Slide 36, we'll talk about the quality of our business, and I want to start with the persistency, which is a focus area for us at ABSLI. We see continuous improvement in persistency across periods on the right caption on the right-hand side of the slide. We've now passed 80% persistency for our 13-month persistency, and we think for once the HDFC Bank experience starts coming into our book, this will really -- this number should lead to further improvement. We have a fairly strong focus on customer retention. Our individual renewal premium has grown about 19% year-on-year, and we see a continuous improvement in surrender ratios.

We've also focused on reducing customer complaints and that's down about 50% over the last 2 years.

Moving on to Slide 37, which has the financials for our life insurance business. You'll see our individual first-year premium for the half year up about 19%. Renewal premium also up about 19%. So very strong growth on both counts. And profit before tax has grown fairly significantly on the back of a growth in the in-force itself.

Let me now move on to our health insurance business and talk about Slide 39. As I said earlier, our health insurance business has grown very strongly. Gross premium grew by 78% year-on-year, with retail growing at 83%. We've obviously increased the share in our overall mix. We now cover 5 million lives in this business, which is a fairly young business, (inaudible) in a position covering 5 million lives. But half of this is covered through micro products that we're working through different partners across India. That gives us the ability to reach some players that we otherwise wouldn't be able to reach ourselves.

Retail claim ratios are obviously a very important part of value creation in this business. Our retail claims ratio is down from 48% last year to 44% this year. And our combined ratio at 155% is significantly lower than the prior year number of 180%.

As I said earlier as well, we've said that we're looking to break even in this business by FY '21, '22, and our trajectory is very much as per plan.

Slide 40 will show you our distribution capacity. This business has actually about 10 bank tie-ups, compared to the 8 that I spoke about in our life business. We have both HDFC Bank and Axis Bank as partners in this business. As a result we have access to about 10,000 bank branches through our Banca channel. We've just started its journey. It's a very young company. So we think there's significant capacity available in terms of capturing the upside from the channels that we're actually tied up with. In addition to that, we're focusing on new-age digital partners and that should give us added distribution capabilities.

We're also looking at diversifying in different ways. It always adds value to the business. Because as we said before, nonmetros have higher margins than metros. That's about 39% of our mix versus 34% last year. Fixed benefit has a higher margin of GWP at 18% versus 16% and Banca is up to 62% of our retail GWP.

We also looked at launching new products in the first half of this year, which allows us at one level to diversify our product portfolio, but it also allows us to take a look to new customer segments that we think (inaudible) into completely at this point in time. So we've launched a senior citizen product, and we launched a group product, both of which we think will add further momentum to the business that we're talking about.

Slide 41, we'll talk about our proposition really because, as I've often said, the proposition of our health insurance business is not just to pay out health insurance claims, it's actually to encourage you to become more healthy and to attract healthy lives into our platform. I think as a result of that, you see the proposition and the way we've done on the proposition, the proof-of-concept is actually very early stages, but of course, we're already seeing the proof-of-concept on the right-hand side of Slide 41. So what we're seeing is people who are active and engaged with us, people who are willing to do the health assessments and follow the health routines that we're suggesting have 15% higher persistency than those who don't. And their claim ratio is 5% lower than people who are not active and not engaged. So it's a fairly significant move. Even though they're at least the early days, we can see actually the proposition is actually resulting in the outcomes that we expected when we started out this business.

If I look at Slide 42, you'll see that our retail premium has grown by about 1.7x and our combined ratio for the half year down to 155% compared to 180% last year. So very much a story of significant scale and deriving scale benefits through a reduction in our combined ratio.

Let me now talk about Slide 44, the last slide I really want to talk about before I open it up to the questions. Slide 44 talks about our other businesses. And as I said in the opening, what we saw last year, on the half year last year, we were losing about INR 2 crores across our other businesses. That's now turned to a profit of INR 39 crores, so it's a pretty big swing. Our general insurance broking business grew its profit before tax about 35% for the second quarter, and our securities broking business grew their profits in Q2 by 17%. And as I said at the opening, we launched the ARC platform with Varde and that platform has turned profitable within the first year of operation.

Thank you very much for your attention. I'd like to stop here and welcome any questions that you may have.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Kunal Shah from Edelweiss.

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Kunal Shah, Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director [2]

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So firstly, in terms of the overall stress. So GNPAs are -- broadly, maybe we have seen marginal increase. But if you can give some flavor in terms of how we are looking at the overall stress pool? And how the credit profile of the corporate book has more to bear in terms of say BBB and below? Have you seen any deterioration during the quarter because of the downgrades which are in there?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [3]

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So I think, as you know, there's stress across different sectors in the economy. So I don't know how to comment on the second question that you have. But in terms of the credit profile of our book, as we shared, our gross stage 3 has moved to 1.39%, ex IL&FS, we think [ex IL&FS] is the right way to look at it. We think there might be a further slippage of about 15 basis points in the next quarter in this number.

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Kunal Shah, Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director [4]

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But if we look at it from, say, 9 to 12 months perspective, and in any [what] release which you want to draw because of maybe a few of the exposures, whilst a few of the well-known names, which are there -- okay, which are under stress, and we would have exposure? So maybe not from just a quarterly perspective, but if we want to get -- maybe how the book would look over the next 6 to 12-odd months?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [5]

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I think it's very difficult to call 6 to 12 months, Kunal. I think anybody that can do that, I would like to meet them as well, because it's really difficult to call in this environment what's going to happen in 6 to 12 months. We've given you a lot of disclosure on our book as it is. So you can see in our top 20, there is no Stage 3, construction balance has no Stage 3, project loans had no Stage 3. And I've told you that we should look at probably another 15 to 20 basis points slippage in our gross stage 3 assets. I think that's a fairly significant amount of information in terms of the quality of the book.

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Kunal Shah, Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director [6]

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Sure. And when we talk about this exposure of still less than 1% to Aditya Birla group, so this includes the entire group including the telecom. This include non-fund-based investments through any other entities as well, so we have...

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [7]

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Everything. Everything.

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Kunal Shah, Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director [8]

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Okay. So combined, everything put together is less than 1%.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [9]

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Yes.

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Kunal Shah, Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director [10]

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Okay. And just one more little point...

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [11]

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I think there are lots of other questions, if we can come back to you later?

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Kunal Shah, Edelweiss Securities Ltd., Research Division - Associate Director [12]

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Sure.

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Operator [13]

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The next question is from the line of Manoj (inaudible) from (inaudible) Capital.

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Unidentified Analyst, [14]

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So first of all, thanks for such an elaborate presentation and detailed deck. So my question is mainly if I see in today's scenario, there are only few NBFCs which have got such a strong liability franchisee. And also if I look at asset quality, it is fairly different. So just wanted to understand in such a scenario where competition is weakening, we have got a strong liability franchisee, a strong history of good credit underwriting. But if I see overall loan book growth across, I think in Q2, it was fairly muted. So what led us to put a brake to the growth when we have all the ingredients in place to accelerate the growth in there?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [15]

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So if you look at our [children] segments, which we have been calling out, retail has been growing quite well. It's been growing at 32%. SME has been growing. If you look at through this quarter, 5%, but we see opportunity in the SME. Yes, there are certain sectors, within the SME where we are seeing stress and we are avoiding those, but clearly we see the opportunity of growth in retail and SME. The reason why you see a muted growth in quarter 2 is because strategically we have reduced our corporate exposure, primarily to reduce the concentration risk.

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Unidentified Analyst, [16]

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But sir, (inaudible) are -- we didn't have any stress. I mean, our overall experience has been good. So it means what made us or what led us to...

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Unidentified Company Representative, [17]

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Environment, the economic slowdown in the environment. So that's the reason we have been cautious in our approach. And as the environment improves, we will look at this very opportunistically in terms of growing the contract book as well. But as we have been calling out, retail and SME and also Ajay mentioned in his presentation that we are looking at expanding to build 3 to 5 centers, we want to add another 100 locations. So that's a clear focus to capture the retail and SME opportunity which the country provides.

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Unidentified Analyst, [18]

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Right. And my second question is on the insurance side. If I see your non-par portions, out of which around 70% to 76% you mentioned that it is hedged. In a falling rate scenario, are you seeing a risk on guaranteed products, which we have offered basically on the non-hedged portion of the non-par guaranteed products?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [19]

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Yes. So that is the risk we have to protect, because the basic risk is the falling interest rate regime. And that's why I said we've already hedged a large part of our book, and we will continue to look to other ways to hedge the rest of the book as well.

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Unidentified Analyst, [20]

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But as of now, that risk remains, right? Because that kind of tenure hedging instrument may not be available, right?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [21]

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Most of that's available. That's how we have hedged, 70% of our book has been hedged that way. It's a mix of both derivative-based hedging as well as actual asset-based hedging. So we have the tools to be able to hedge it and we will take action required to hedge our portfolio.

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Operator [22]

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The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Securities.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [23]

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What is the ticket size in home loans?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [24]

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For affordable home loans, ticket size is about INR 12 lakhs.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [25]

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That's right.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [26]

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And about INR 35 lakhs in outsized loan ticket.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [27]

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Sure. Any guidance that you could give on the business mix for the -- sorry, this is on the life business -- any guidance if you could give on the business mix for the second half or for the entire year? I mean, would non-par make (inaudible)?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [28]

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We are actually focusing on making sure we can get the protection part of our business up in the second half of the year. And if you look at in the proprietary business of ours, we're already at about [7%]. Banca, which has reasonable share of our business at about [50%],is where the focus is to get the protection side of the business up. Non-par, we would like to keep at this similar level or slightly lower, and even if we can increase the size of our protection business in the second half also.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [29]

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And if I may ask, what is the effective guarantee that you're offering to the customer in [non-par sector]?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [30]

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So it will vary, Nischint, from customer to customer and niche to niche and depending on ticket size, so it varies between 4.5% to 5.2% or 5.3%.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [31]

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And finally, one big picture view in terms of where do you see -- sorry, this is now again on the NBFC side. One big picture view in terms of where do you see the share of large and big corporates settle down over the next 2 to 3 years?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [32]

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So again, it's difficult to predict that far out because we don't know what will happen to the cycle. But I think short term, we clearly don't see much growth in that book and it will probably stay flat to slightly down near where we are today.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [33]

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But are you have any incremental disbursements in the project or nonstructured finance segments of construction finance segment?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [34]

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Yes, I mean, where we see opportunity, that's how we look at it, opportunistically; where we see opportunity, as to what makes sense, we will continue to look at that. But on an aggregate basis, as I said, I don't think this book will grow very much in the course of the rest of this year.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [35]

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No, I'm saying this will be somewhere in the next 2, 3 years point of view to something, which I think you'll figure out down the line, is what you're saying?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [36]

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Yes, I don't think I can make the call that far away.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) - Senior Analyst [37]

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Sure. And for the project loans and construction finance, would you have been kind of been in disbursements over the last 6 months or so? Or are you kind of just running down the book?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [38]

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Project loans, we've had some disbursements because we do see opportunity there. The same in construction finance. So I think where we see the risk-reward was working for us, we are (inaudible) disbursements.

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Operator [39]

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The next question is from the line of Piran Engineer from Motilal Oswal.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [40]

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Congrats on the quarter. I just have a couple of questions. Firstly, have you done some write-offs in the NBFC business this quarter?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [41]

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We have.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [42]

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Could you please quantify it and how that compares with the prior quarter?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [43]

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It's about INR 100 crores write-off in the quarter, I think.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [44]

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Okay. In Q2. And versus 1Q?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [45]

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Well, about INR 70 crores or INR 80 crores has been [in there].

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [46]

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Okay, got it. And one other bookkeeping question, what is our disbursement number this quarter?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [47]

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Disbursement, we might -- we will have a disbursement of INR 5,000 crores and a repayment of closer to INR 7,000 crores.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [48]

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Okay, okay. So our disbursements have really picked up, because I believe last quarter it was around INR 3,000 crores?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [49]

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Well I think that it was the same number, Q1 as well.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [50]

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Okay, okay.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [51]

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And I don't know the exact number, but roughly the same. But the drawdown, as I said earlier, we've had some amount of intentional drawdown, because (inaudible) segments we wanted to drawdown.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [52]

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Understood, understood. And could you just remind us what exactly is our business in digital and unsecured?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [53]

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So the retail business is business loans and personal loans,

catering to the consumer segment and the MSME segment.

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Piran Engineer, Motilal Oswal Securities Limited, Research Division - Research Analyst [54]

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Okay, okay. But unsecured to MSME?

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Unidentified Company Representative, [55]

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Yes, yes.

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Operator [56]

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The next question is from the line of Neeraj Prakash from (inaudible) Capital.

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Unidentified Analyst, [57]

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A couple of them. Just one is, are there any plans to potentially demerge the AMC from the overall company? And secondly, in terms of the cost of capital is -- what you see potentially with risk in terms of your low cost of capital in case of a potential infusion of capital from Grasim into Vodafone or in case they need to pay off some debt there?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [58]

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Two hypothetical questions. I think the first one, we have no plans to demerge the asset management company. Second one, honestly, I can't answer that question for you.

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Unidentified Analyst, [59]

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Okay. Then just lastly, in the case of your NPA profiles, I noticed that you maintain a very low gross NPA profile versus a lot of competitors have been going through rough patch. Just trying to understand what is it that differentiates you and how are you able to maintain such a sort of good asset quality versus everyone else, almost [everyone else]?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [60]

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I think I will take that as a compliment. But I think it's a function of customer selection and underwriting process, which works across the entire platform that we have.

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Unidentified Company Representative, [61]

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And our improvement on the cash flow.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [62]

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And our improvement on cash flow. And you know about 80% of our business is secured. And the security, we believe, adds some value to the borrower. That also helps.

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Operator [63]

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The next question is from the line of [Chirag] Patel from [Motilal].

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Unidentified Analyst, [64]

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Congratulations on the quarter.

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Operator [65]

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Mr. Patel, you can go ahead with your question please.

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Unidentified Analyst, [66]

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I have 2 questions, sir. The status which SL Group with respect to our exposure on AMC front as well as on the lending book side.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [67]

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There was the one thing. So Bala will give you some sense of it.

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A. Balasubramanian, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO of Aditya Birla Sun Life AMC Limited [68]

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On the AMC front, we have (inaudible) SL Group in the compared to our funding overall (inaudible). And as you know, as happens in the public domain, we're in the process of final resolution on the (inaudible) sale with the public. And we're awaiting for that resolution to come, then our exposure (inaudible) fund will be fully out. Our other exposure to some of their [old] assets, there we are in the process of engaging with the potential buyers. And hopefully, once we get closer to that, we can, indeed, kind of exit on those funds.

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Unidentified Analyst, [69]

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Okay. But sir, the [lender] and that issue was spoke of (inaudible) before. And at the time, we -- our CIO (inaudible) said by September '19, we will pass through this fees. So is there any delay, or we are going to, a certain time of this year, I mean, out from this, but (inaudible)

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [70]

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September '20, not September '19. September '19, yes. If you look at September '19, but we're looking at a resolution in the not-too-distant future.

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Operator [71]

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(Operator Instructions) The next question is from the line of [Manoj Pragath] from (inaudible) Capital.

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Unidentified Analyst, [72]

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Just taking forward the previous question, can you quantify the SL Group exposure, including the [road] assets in our balance sheet as well as in AMC?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [73]

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We just answered that question through Bala, right?

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Unidentified Analyst, [74]

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So the amount, I think I didn't -- what was the amount? Especially, in fact, I'm more interested in knowing the exposure if it is there in our balance sheet, the NBFC balance sheet?

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [75]

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NBFC balance sheet, we're not talking about any specific exposure. As I said in the beginning, we've already given you adequate color on the quality of the book. We're not going to really talk about any specific exposure.

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Operator [76]

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Ladies and gentlemen, this was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments. Over to you, sir.

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Ajay Srinivasan, Aditya Birla Capital Limited - CEO [77]

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Thank you much for joining us for this conference call. We wish you all very good evening and a happy weekend as well. Thanks.

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Operator [78]

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Thank you very much, members of the management. Ladies and gentlemen, for any further queries, you may contact Mr. Pramod Bohra, Investor Relations team. On behalf of Aditya Birla Capital Limited, that concludes this conference call. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.