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Edited Transcript of AR4G.DE earnings conference call or presentation 8-Aug-19 12:00pm GMT

Half Year 2019 Aurelius Equity Opportunities SE & Co KGaA Earnings Call

GRUENWALD Aug 16, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co KGaA earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, August 8, 2019 at 12:00:00pm GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Anke Banaschewski

AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Head of IR & Corporate Communications

* Dirk Markus

AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO

* Steffen Schiefer

AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - CFO, Member of Management Board & Member of Executive Board

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Conference Call Participants

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* Alexander P. O'Donoghue

Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - DACH Mid-Cap Analyst

* Christoph Blieffert

Commerzbank AG, Research Division - Equity Analyst of Financials

* Gunnar Cohrs

Hauck & Aufhäuser Privatbankiers AG, Research Division - Analyst

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Presentation

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [1]

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Hello, everybody. Dirk Markus speaking. Welcome to our H1 conference call. I'm here with Anke Banaschewski and Steffen Schiefer.

We'll be looking at the presentation that I hope you have all received and have front of you. If we have a quick plan that the highlights of first half year, while the big highlight, obviously, was our exit of Solidus, which probably you all know, we sold for EUR 330 million enterprise value, just a few weeks ago. The closing preparations are proceeding well, and we expect that closing, actually, probably end of August, but at the latest, in September. So that's progressing well.

On the numbers front, we had total consolidated revenues coming at EUR 1.9 billion. They're roughly the same of last year. End of last year, we had EUR 3.5 billion. Performance-wise, we see overall good operation performance across the portfolio. We have a few public or onetime -- or public effects from IFRS 16 of the accounts -- and these accounts were introduced for all EU listed companies. But even without these IFRS 16 effects, we are carefully pleased with how things are going with the portfolio. Obviously, with more than 20 portfolio companies, you always have some that are above and some that are below that, but that's normal, although we are pleased. And the net asset value is at EUR 1.4 billion.

Quick recap, Page 4, to SOLIDUS. We sold it to Centerbridge, EUR 330 million enterprise, equity in the EUR 240 million range. That's a multiple of slightly over 16x. Some money was invested, the earliest impact will be approximately $100 million in the third quarter, so that you will see a significant onetime effect in the third quarter, not in the second. Obviously, considering what happens this year. And we did pay a participation dividend a few weeks ago.

Last week, we announced the first platform acquisition of this year. We acquired -- or we are acquiring BT Fleet Solutions from British Telecom. BT Fleet Solutions will be of the U.K.'s #1 commercial fleet management business, delivering the suite of services around the corporate fleets, corporate cars, to a range of big well-known customers, with BTP obviously the biggest one of them. This is a very typical in the [regular field]. British Telecom has undertaken a strategic review of its activities and has decided its fleet management is noncore. The business requires operational support as because of the fleet, but there's a lot of potential to further improve it. It's not a classic turnaround, but more a performance improvement case. And we believe we can improve through innovative new delivery models and supporting the service offering, but also we will find, as in most cases. We will find customization and opportunities and cost-side opportunities.

We also hope to drive growth through operational performance and investment in the business to draw the customers in. The business is a business of roughly EUR 220 million in revenues. EBITDA is positive, but it could be a lot higher and we'll work with the company to achieve that. It is particularly however in this deal, our equity exposure is driven at a single-digit million euro amount, and the business is at a high single-digit million [number EBITDA margin]. So we do believe that [we'll see improved] transaction cost. And (inaudible) as well in our fleet part of the [coproduct].

Looking ahead, we expect more M&A activity for the next couple of weeks, some additional buy side activity and also sell-side activity. On the buying side, we do hope to get few more transactions start actually shortly for short term. And look at 4 to 6 platform acquisitions for all of [2016].

On the selling side, looking at the portfolio on Page 6, we have a number of portfolio companies that are up in that growth phase. And we do hope to sell a few of them over the next couple of months.

Page 6 shows the usual trend line from top left to bottom right. The older portfolio companies are healthier than the younger ones. Most of them are moving up, which is good, which means they are improving in performance. You see BT Fleet Solutions haven't come in, which is more optimization we expect in the near-term, as just mentioned. And we hope to [see access] there as well.

Let me hand over to Stefan to look at the numbers for H1.

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Steffen Schiefer, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - CFO, Member of Management Board & Member of Executive Board [2]

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Yes. Thank you, Dirk. Also from my side, a warm welcome to everybody in the line. I'll present you now the actual figures and give you a short outlook for the upcoming months.

I'm on Chart 7 now. So total group revenues of AURELIUS up slightly above last year, and amount nearly to EUR 1.9 billion.

The annualized group revenues from continuing operations increased by 3% to EUR 3.5 billion. The main reason for that, the increase are the newly acquired portfolio companies in the second half of 2018, like Ideal Shopping, VAG or Hellanor.

Let me give the few explanation on our EBITDA and the 3 sources of value creation. So we have 3 parts. First part is the operating EBITDA of our group companies, which shows the result of the ongoing operation.

The operating EBITDA for the first half year that amount to EUR 103 million, after EUR 54 million in the first half in year 2018. EBITDA development was influenced, Dirk mentioned before, by a good operational performance, but also from the first-time application of IFRS 16, which is a new accounting or IFRS standards for lease accounting, which is mandatory since beginning of 2019.

Second part or segment profit contributed in the bargain purchase, which is an interim part of our results. The bargain purchase income is already being achieved when AURELIUS acquired portfolio companies with the purchase price below the acquired book value of the equity.

For the first half year of 2019, we had no first-time consolidation of deals, so no newly acquired companies, therefore, no bargain purchase in the first 6 months this year.

The bargain purchase is always a contribution, so that they are willing to make toward future restructuring expenses in order to get rid of a business. Therefore, restructuring expenses, we have to calculate also in the EBITDA of AURELIUS so restructuring expenses at a range is amount to EUR 42 million in the first half of 2019, after a EUR 35 million comparable half-year last year.

Third element is the exit part, and is related to the sale of portfolio companies. So result from sales above, respectively, below, book value amount to [about EUR 7 million] in the first half year. 2018, we realized a gain of close to EUR 3 million.

Short outlook into Q3. Dirk also mentioned before, we will realize after Solidus' exit with an exercise slightly above EUR 100 million.

So consolidated profit amount to minus EUR 51 million after 20 month, 21 last year, which leads to diluted earnings per share, EPS, of minus EUR 1.95.

Let's have a short look on some balance sheet figures. I'm on the next chart, which is 8. Top left, it's with EUR 2.5 billion, increased by 18%.

Cash decreased from EUR 291 million at the of 2018 to EUR 180 million at the end of June. The main reason for the decrease are some working capital changes in our portfolio companies and the strong investing activities in European portfolio.

Again, IFRS 16, so the first-time adoption of this standard leads to higher assets, but also to higher leasing liabilities, and therefore, to a new relation of equity and total liabilities. So liabilities increased to EUR 2 billion. And this leads to an equity ratio of 90%, after 25% at the end of last year. So this decrease is only related to the new accounting standard, IFRS 16.

Let's move on to NAV. I'm on Page 9 now. So net asset value of the portfolio at the end of June amounts to EUR 1.38 billion, which is nearly on the same level as the end of 2018.

I give you some explanation on the calculation. So NAV is based on a DCF model for the NAV calculation. At the end of June, we use our half year actuals plus our half year budget. And we use a growth rate for the terminal values of 0.5%, which is still on a very conservative level.

For listed portfolio companies, which is currently only NDS, we use the market cap instead of the DCF valuation.

WACC based on respective into a peer groups, and as of end of June 2019, there was spread between 5% and 12% for the WACC. The average is around 8%.

If you have a look on the second table on the chart, which shows the NAV by maturity or vintage, plus that by the holding period of our portfolio companies. So as you can see, the main value of our portfolio companies comes from the older and already made restructured companies, which is nearly 90% of our portfolio NAV.

The last chart for today. I will give you a brief outlook for the second half of 2019. Dirk gave you all some explanations on that. So a short outlook on the deal activities. The impact is strong with the -- some maturities in the very near future and also for the upcoming next month. All in all, we expect 4 to 6 platform investments until the end of this year.

We still pursue our way to develop the value enhancement of our portfolio. So after a turnaround phase, which needs in average 12 to 8 months, we are focused on the optimization and also on the organic growth of our portfolio companies. And besides that sub side organic growth, we develop and strengthen our portfolio via strategic add-on acquisitions. A good example for that, our add-ons for photo for Calumet Wex this year.

Quite a considerable number of portfolio companies already developed to market maturity, as you also can see on Chart 6. Dirk gave you some further explanations on that a few minutes ago.

So if we talk about market maturity, we should talk also about further exits. So after signing of our SOLIDUS exit closing, we expect that in Q3, we'll still see a strong exit pipeline. So our plan to exit projects are on track. And so we expect further profitable exits within the upcoming months.

So thanks for all for listening us, and we are now happy to answer your questions.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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The first question is from Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser.

I think we lost the line of Gunnar Cohrs. One moment please. Since we lost the line of Gunnar Cohrs, the next question will be from Alexander O'Donoghue, Berenberg.

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Alexander P. O'Donoghue, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - DACH Mid-Cap Analyst [2]

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Just 3 questions for me, please today. Firstly, this BT deal seems a very good deal, given maybe the price that has been talked about for this asset in the past. How long was the negotiations for this taking place? Did it happen very quickly? And is there a reason why BT was willing to accept a lower price at the end? And is it a deal where there will be a lot of restructuring required? Or it's more just changing the strategy?

Second question is, if you could update us on the operational performance of Office Depot, Europe?

And the third question would be just regarding sort of potential disposals. Some of the companies you've talked about in the past like GHOTEL, Scandinavian Cosmetics, do you have any clear idea about what valuations you might achieve for these assets now?

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [3]

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Okay. Yes. Thank you, Alexander. Let me tackle all 3. First one was on the BT deal. How long did the negotiation last? And why you got it so cheap?

While we -- I think it took a few months, 3 or 4 months, if I'm not mistaken. And that's not because it's a complex, it took a bit longer because of the complex buffers, and coordinating with multiple parties involved in a big organization, such as BT, it takes its time.

You're referring to the price just being a lot lower than what had been discussed in the press. I'm not sure if you're referring to the number of EUR 200 million, that was referred in one press article.

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Alexander P. O'Donoghue, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - DACH Mid-Cap Analyst [4]

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Yes.

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [5]

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But that press article has confused revenues and sales proceeds. And -- so the EUR 200 million number, I don't think they honestly ever thought about getting EUR 200 million for this business. That would have been a model 20 to 23x EBITDA.

I think it's just the faulty journalist essentially who quote, who said that number.

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Anke Banaschewski, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Head of IR & Corporate Communications [6]

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So yes, the price is what it is. It's I mean, it's in -- the price wasn't the key feature, as often with our deals, but that was getting this done, being able to focus on their core business, keeping this into good hands. And also, making sure that the business will continue to provide goods, so that -- and there's a long term -- a long funding agreement that has been concluded with BT for the continuation of service -- fleet services to BT. And that was the main part for them in both price.

And is there a lot of restructuring or a new strategy? Well, I think a bit of all. I wouldn't call it restructure, I would call it performance improvements, and more focus from us as we go over it and more intense direction-setting and as acting as a true parent for the management and supporting them with our task force. But we'll hopefully, get this business to even better performance than what it has achieved in the past.

Your second question about around Office Depot. Well, we are seeing an improvement. We are seeing growth on the dollar side at Office Depot, which -- and have seen that for a few months now, which is something that business, which as a [providing] business, hadn't seen for more than 10 years. And so that's good.

We are seeing -- and we're seeing a lot of online growth as it's concerned on the Viking side. So the Viking business is shifting from offline to online to some paper-based catalogs to online-based procurement from, of course, Office Depot. Approximately, 50% of the Viking business was still done offline, meaning people were filling out order forms in paper catalogs. And today, that number is below 20% and will probably be down to 0 within the next 2 years or so. So that's good.

We also see a positive development in the so-called growth country business, which is the business in Eastern and Southern Europe. And we might see some first assets in that area of the business within the next couple of months. And we see continued challenges in the contract business, the good businesses that the contract business nowadays is a lot smaller than what used to be because we have systematically cut our unprofitable business and unprofitable contracts. And -- so the -- that is part of the business, we're still losing money, but it's been far less than it used to. And we hope to improve it so that carries over the profitability of that.

And we see a market environment where consolidation is happening. You might have seen that Staples Europe owned by another P group, part of it sell off certain country organization. They sold their Italian and Spanish business and agreements have it that they are selling other parts of the business as well. So the cost reduction that we've been expecting it to happen for a number of months has actually started.

So overall, it's not a great business yet, and it's still undergoing fundamental change. But I think we're heading into the right direction.

Okay. Third you asked disposals and how we value them. While -- from -- I guess we ask the market. So how market sees the value and how potential investors see the value of certain portfolio companies. And if we were to see a too big a divergence between our own perception, which is expressed in our net asset values and the market, that we would fault the market. But since we do these NAVs every quarter, I wouldn't expect any major surprises with the [sell financing]. We hope to sell -- hope it sell at about the net asset value, but also why we adopt that every quarter.

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Operator [7]

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And the question is from Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser.

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Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser Privatbankiers AG, Research Division - Analyst [8]

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Apologies, I dropped off the line. Hopefully, you can hear me now. The first question would be on IFRS 16 impact in Q2. If you could elaborate on the impact on the operating EBITDA? And maybe also, the impact from the disposal of unprofitable businesses on the operating EBITDA in Q2.

And maybe a follow-up on Office Depot. So I understand from your explanations, Dirk, that, overall, the Group is still loss making. How much kind of liquidity is still in the company? When you -- obviously, when you bought the company, they were kind of anticipated massive restructuring costs, and you've got some cash with business. So how much is left there?

And then maybe also final question here from my side on the NAV. The NAV has changed quarter-over-quarter. Does it mean that you're running out of ideas? Because I can see that the restructuring expenses for this were down quarter-over-quarter? Or are they just on opposite trends within the portfolio?

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Steffen Schiefer, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - CFO, Member of Management Board & Member of Executive Board [9]

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Gunnar, I'll take the questions on IFRS 16 and unprofitable business. So IFRS 16, you asked for the effect in Q2 or the first half of 2019. So there are 2 effects. One is on the P&L and the other one is on balance sheet. On the balance sheet, so we have to impact on the asset side and so on the liability side, which is round about $450 million to EUR 500 million on both sides. So we have -- total assets are nearly 20% higher than the year before. And for that reason, we have completely new relation between equity and total assets, which leads to the lower equity ratio. On the P&L side, we have an effect, which is in the lower 40s for the first half year 2019 on EBITDA.

And just second question was, which part is [rate of] unprofitable business on the operating EBITDA. So as you know, if we sell companies, they are normally very healthy and have very good and -- EBITDA. And if we buy companies, normally, they are in the restructuring phase, the EBITDA is around 0 or slightly below, especially in the case of BT, which is part of the group in the second half of the year, which has a positive impact already on the EBITDA. So if you look on Chart 6, there are some companies which we acquired in the last 12 to 18 months. So they are -- participation on the EBITDA is really low levels. There are maybe 1 or 2 companies which are negative. The other has EBITDA slightly above 0. And when you look on the chart on this part, these are the main contributor to our EBITDA.

Dirk, I think you'd take the ODE question?

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [10]

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Yes. Third question was on Office Depot. So I said that Office Depot contract, so the contract part of Office Depot is still loss making, not overall Office Depot Europe, the profitable part of Viking Growth Country and retail. So 1 out of 4 is still loss making on overall profit. And to cash, I don't have the number at hand on that count, but it's not [much].

On the NAV, are we running out of ideas, why is there's no movement. You know, I guess we'll be prudent and since we don't want to disappoint you, rest assured, we're working hard to make sure that there is sort of NAV improvement.

And I don't think [there is any point on discussing it. There's more for us to do]. But there's also us working on the portfolio, and it takes a while to get this company down the track and get them [immediate] into position with consultant at a good price [is what we did there]. And if we achieve that, then we'll be able to [do it at the mass level]. So I wouldn't read into restructuring costs [being affected by -- being] higher or lower [quarter] to quarter but that's the normal fluctuation in the business but nothing more.

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Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser Privatbankiers AG, Research Division - Analyst [11]

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Okay. Maybe just one follow-up question on CalaChem, where you also reported that you basically experienced some bottlenecks, so you still seem to have the good demand there, which is a bit surprising, given that overall, a lot of companies, like Briar, BFF have already profit [going]. But given that, you still seem to experience good demand, but on the other hand you've have kind of bottleneck on some of your products. This is still a company you're ready to sell? Or would that also make it more difficult, even, probably I would also see prices start coming down kind of market environment?

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [12]

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Okay. Well, let me comment on CalaChem and Briar Chem because they are kind of intertwined and have part of the same management team. And what we see in both companies is very strong demand. And I know that this is different to what is still in other industries and also what you're mentioning with regards to BFF or Briar. But we are seeing very strong demand, some of the strongest demand in all of the portfolio, we see at those 2 chemical business in the U.K.

And the reason is that this cycle in agriculture is not always aligned with the industrial cycle, and that China has this -- Chinese government has introduced this Project BlueSky, which is essentially then wanting to have to have blue skies over eastern China in winter. Therefore, they have closed down numerous chemical plants in China. And we're seeing demand, especially from Asia and Australia. So we have been substituting, if you want, Chinese chemical businesses so -- with supplies from Britain.

In terms of bottlenecks, yes, we could sell a lot more than we are selling because we're maxed out in terms of capacity. We are obviously working on debottlenecking. We're hiring lots of people. We're trying to make the plans less half of all of these things. But take this time. But -- so no. I think we're quite optimistic about both telecom and Briar.

Are we looking to sell them? Well, that is the objective with all of our companies and Briar and CalaChem are in the growth phase. So yes, we will sell them. Whether it's this year or next year, I can't tell you.

You might know that by the [fair bet] for me that there was an unfortunate accident at Briar last year, where one of the plants blew up and the [company was closed] and getting that particular plant up and running again, needed a lot of energy in the first half of this year. The plant is now up and running, and we might want to see a few months of it running well before we exit or eventually sell. But we will definitely sell both companies, and we expect attractive terms.

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Operator [13]

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The next question is from Christoph Blieffert, Commerzbank.

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Christoph Blieffert, Commerzbank AG, Research Division - Equity Analyst of Financials [14]

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Two questions from my side, please. The first is on cash flow. You generated a negative net operating cash flow of EUR 33 million in the first half. What was the contribution from SOLIDUS? But can we expect a turnaround of the second half of the year?

And secondly, when you look into your investment portfolio, and here, in particular, on the company's it's showing the growth phase of growth -- to the growth phase. Which companies would be most impacted by an economic downturn?

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Steffen Schiefer, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - CFO, Member of Management Board & Member of Executive Board [15]

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Christoph, I'll take the cash flow question. So we see 3 main reasons for the negative cash flow. So I give you the reason also in addition for the free cash flow, so also for the investing activities. And in addition to that, you see to the operating cash flow. So there is -- so these are still part of the part of the Group, so there is, at the moment, no negative impact. We see a positive impact in Q3 in the investing cash flow, when we have the closing. And the main reason -- or the main 3 -- 3 main reasons for the negative cash flow. First, this -- the retail business in our Group, they collect a lot of cash during the Christmas season, which leads to a high cash position by the end of the year.

In the following periods, we have a lot of capital -- working capital swings, mainly payments for liabilities. And addition to that, we have for -- and in some retail business, the weaker retail season that in the summer.

Second reason, we lost some cash with the exit of [Auverkinlings] in [Braunowich]. So with our cash with that company, that means cash, which was sitting in the company's operating companies.

And the third reason is we have a negative impact. So that's more for the free cash flow, investing cash flow from higher investing activities in our newly acquired business.

And in addition to that, Dirk mentioned already, we had some further investment at Briar Limited, which was the result of the accident last year. So there was some additional investing activities on that.

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [16]

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Yes, and let me tackle the question on the portfolio. You asked what part of -- or which portfolio companies are the most prone to be hit by an economic downturn? Or would be the most affected if as a recession were to hit us?

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Christoph Blieffert, Commerzbank AG, Research Division - Equity Analyst of Financials [17]

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Exactly. Leaving the new companies aside. So just for -- focusing on mature companies.

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [18]

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Let me make one introductory statement to that. At the moment, we see individual pockets of -- or we see recessionary tendencies in individual pockets of the overall market. More in what we see in the market and when we look at potential acquisitions, that is actually in our portfolio. But when we look at the M&A pipeline at U.K., for example, and what's happening there with retail or when we look at the M&A pattern in Germany, what's happening with automotive. Yes, we do see individual industries where a recession to be coming, but we don't see it overall yet. In the portfolio, I think there is just -- overall, I think our portfolio is an average cut to the Western European dealers in particular, German and British economics.

And so overall, if you want to model this, I don't think that we will be over or under-ly exposed to recession. If I look at individual portfolio companies, I think the beauty clinic chains transformed the hospital group and hence, I think that those are the 2 that are the most prone to be impacted by a recession.

Looking back, when you look at the market for breast implants, essentially being 50% of what transplant in the hospital do, that's highly prone to recessional tendencies. It's a feel-good service and product. And if the recession comes, that's where we see it first.

And the same is true for sailing boats, sailing yacht and motor cruisers. We see some of that in [Bucci's] clinic market, which are [transform] in the hospitals that are seeing a weak market [indicated this year]. We don't really see it at [half-year]. Okay?

Most affected -- the other portfolio companies are kind of average. And then some actually might profit from a recession. GHOTEL, for example, last time, run into [8 to 9]. What we saw is that people are downgrading in their hotel, that consumption, so that people used to sleep in 4- or 5-star hotels, essentially trade down sometimes, so their company travel policy pushes that too and are actually staying in a 3-star hotel. So it's not all negative if the recession were to come. But obviously, it wouldn't be good for us.

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Operator [19]

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There are currently no further questions. (Operator Instructions) We have a follow-up question from Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser.

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Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser Privatbankiers AG, Research Division - Analyst [20]

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Could you provide an update on share buybacks? What are your plans for the second half of the year? Or basically, for the current year under the ATM.

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [21]

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I think we have to stay abstract here, do not [not do -- that promotion] and cannot comment on specific plans. But overall, we like to give back money to shareholders, whether it's through dividends or buybacks. And we'll let the market know whenever it happens. So -- but we cannot be more specific yet.

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Gunnar Cohrs, Hauck & Aufhäuser Privatbankiers AG, Research Division - Analyst [22]

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But at the moment, basically, also after the dividend payment, you still have more cash, obviously, than you need for your -- for the operating business?

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [23]

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Yes. But we have a lot less than we used to have. If we paid dividends, spent money on acquisitions, are doing some new acquisitions at the moment. And hope to close the SOLIDUS deal soon. And that could change the picture as well.

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Operator [24]

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There are no further questions. I hand back to the speakers for closing remarks.

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Dirk Markus, AURELIUS Equity Opportunities SE & Co. KGaA - Co-Founder, Founding Partner, Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [25]

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Well, thank you very much for your time. Enjoy the summer. Input for the markets from our side, we are looking at some more transactions over the next couple of weeks, and we'll keep you updated on those. Thank you very much for your time, again.