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Edited Transcript of B2H.OL earnings conference call or presentation 6-Nov-19 7:30am GMT

Q3 2019 B2holding ASA Earnings Call

Oslo Nov 25, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of B2holding ASA earnings conference call or presentation Wednesday, November 6, 2019 at 7:30:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Erik Just Johnsen

B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO

* Rasmus Michael Hansson

B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR

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Conference Call Participants

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* Joakim Svingen

Arctic Securities AS, Research Division - Analyst

* Thomas Svendsen

Nordea Markets, Research Division - Director of Financials

* Vegard Toverud

Pareto Securities, Research Division - Analyst

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Presentation

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [1]

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(foreign language) Good morning and welcome to third quarter presentation for B2Holding. It's been an eventful and a quarter of progress for B2Holding.

The organizational changes that was announced earlier this quarter also will ensure that the new strategic direction for B2Holding will be able to progress.

If we look at -- this was 4 main focus areas that was presented last quarter as well. And it's intact.

We initiated several actions to secure and improve our collection on or recovery on the secured assets. And it's -- we see already quite a few positive signs of those actions.

The efficiency in operation is still a focus of the group and will continue to be that going forward. We see the cost to collect is coming down, but we still see there is improvement, both on the secured side as well as on the unsecured side and also on some of the efficiency in the corporate lines. The increase in services revenue through asset under management has become a focus for B2Holding.

And we also know, in this quarter -- well, not in this quarter, but actually in soon, too, we are going to announce a deal with Waterfall and also in the Nordics. That will ensure that we will use the money from our co-investors in such a way that we will both increase our capacity on our platforms using the efficiency that will also then see to that we will kind of get the cost to collect going down. And at the same time, also, we'll see the servicing fee increase going forward. That relates a little bit also to the focused investments in selected group areas. When we are talking about that, we are going to look at -- see how can we make our platforms more efficient. How can we take -- we have been growing these companies over 2 years, and we've been now established ourselves in several of the markets. Now is the time to also utilize those platforms in such a way that we are not only capitalized on using their own money to invest there in those platforms but also using other people's money to invest and ensure that we get the economies of scales of those platforms. That's important.

Going back a little bit to the highlights of Q3. We see that the secured portfolios are performing as planned or expected in the new curves. We also see that the unsecured portfolios are performing better than expected. This is a continuation. We've seen that several of the quarters that unsecured portfolios are performing rather better, giving us a gross cash collection of NOK 1.3 billion.

We also see that the cash EBITDA is the highest ever, and also the results now coming back to what we call a more normal state. I will revert a little bit to some of the aspects concerning them -- the result later.

Portfolio purchase was still high, NOK 1.2 billion. But the main point here is also we have a very positive development in the covenants by the RCFs. We got a waiver last quarter to end of March. We see that we have a possibility already at the end of Q2 2019 to be in line with some of -- some these covenants. This has gone faster than anticipated. And then, therefore, we will have no problem being in line with the covenants at the end of quarter -- first quarter 2020.

If you look at them, the 4 aspects that we've been also highlighted a year earlier. We see that the volume growth that is coming now is coming through servicing fees. And we also see that we have a good growth within our own business, both at the third party but also what we see at the returns on our portfolios. The effectiveness and efficiency comes from how well do we do actually perform our platforms. And we see that the cost to collect is coming down due to volume but also due to some efficiencies that we have initiated in several countries. Poland and Finland still is 2 countries that stand out when it comes to new efficiencies coming into place and secure the good profit that we have from those 2 platforms.

We have -- on the capital and funding, we have a very good capital structure. I will go through that a little bit later on. And also, we see that the waiver from the banks has developed positive, and we have more than sufficient headroom when it comes to getting in line with that at the end of Q1, as I said.

Operational, the new organizational structure is important to ensure that B2 will take it from where it is today, transform it into what the new strategic direction for B2 is. And also, we see that we have increased focus and continued focus on co-investment. Co-investment is going to be a more major part of B2 going forward. And we are very pleased also then to announce that Waterfall, as I said previously, will sign a deal in shortly. That also ensures that we have a co-investment structure also in the Nordics.

New group organizational structure. We have -- with the new organization structure, ensure that we have the operational capacity at an expertise at group level. With George Christoforou and Adam Parfiniewicz, we have split the secured and unsecured portfolios and collection processes because not only portfolios, but we also will do third party in this field. We have split this into 2 lines. There's 2 different way of doing recovery on the claims and doing collection which is more industrialized ways. These are 2 different ways, and we have now made sure that we also, from a group perspective, look upon that in that respect.

We have also -- this time around, we have also a new Chief Legal and Compliance Officer with Cecilie Kjelland that just recently joined us. We have also a new HR Director, Guro Becker, that has been joined us. All of the new management is present here today, and will be able then to speak to some of you that want to do that afterwards. We also see that Johannes Raschke has been joining us while he's been with us in the investment office, but we split the investment office into 2 to make sure that we also have the risk element well taken care of. And Jeremi Bobowski, former Chief Investment Officer, is now Chief Risk Officer. And then Johannes has taken on the Chief Investment Officer. This is going to ensure that we have an increased transparency and increased risk management in the group. It further will improve the execution and operational efficiency in the group. And lastly, it will strengthen the link between the headquarters and the business units in the group. And this is important. The business units are important for B2. They will be independent sort of B2, but we will have better organization to also be a help function for the different business units out there.

I'll let the word go over to Rasmus to take the next points.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [2]

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Thank you, Erik. I just need to fix this for the webcast, okay.

As I said on the Q2 presentation, I think it's important to remember that secured assets is a significant part of the NPL industry. It still represents more than EUR 500 billion of the balance sheet of European banks. So I repeat, it has been important for us to have exposure towards this asset class as it is a significant part of the industry. Having said that, we also acknowledge that we -- as we said in the Q2 that we have underestimated, to some extent, the complexity within this asset class. That's why we have initiated several actions, and I'm going to give you a short update on where we are.

As you can see, we have reformed the recovery teams. When we talk about secured claims, we talk about recovery rather than collection. This is more sort of customized work on each and every claim. And we have also hired more people, approximately around 15 new people within secured recovery.

Furthermore, we have the recovery support team, which currently counts 10, 11 people, which then supports the local teams, and they then, of course, they spend considerable time in each country, but they also move around to some extent.

We here highlight that we have new case strategies for 60% of the estimated remaining recovery. And what does that mean? That means that we have done a deep analysis of the 100 largest cases within this region, which represents then 60% of the estimated remaining recovery. With this deep analysis, we then have identified what needs to be done and what are our different options in connection with these claims. With that, we can then decide on the right strategy at the right time.

In addition, we have also better tools to monitor these processes, as we have said. In reality, this means that we have a good priority list and that enables us to put the right resources on the different claims and the different strategies. So we are in much better control of the secured recovery processes. We also mentioned in Q2 about the JVs or potential JVs, co-investment structures. We have good progress there. But I mean, these are discussions on a commercial level, and they are confidential of nature. So we cannot say anything more than what we say here, but we see good interest, and we have made good progress since Q2.

I will also like to highlight this table we showed on the Q2 presentation. I'm not going to promise that we will show this going forward. But for comparison, I think it was good to actually bring it up again because you can see here that this table showing the portfolios in Central and Southeast Europe, secured portfolios. We have now collected 69% of the total amount invested. In Q2, the number was 62%. And if you look at some of the vintages, for example, 2015 and '16, we have also been open. Some of what we acquired in '15 and '16 were part of the write-down that we saw in Q2 because we were overly optimistic on some of these portfolios. But having said that, we have already collected invested amounts. So these are not portfolios where we will lose money. There will still be positive IRRs despite the write-down.

But all in all, we have collected approximately NOK 300 million in this region on secured portfolios in Q3, so it's moving in the right direction. And also as we have up in the right corner, ERC here, it includes then ERR for secured assets, we are at 29%. In Q2, the number was 30%. What does that mean? Well, we have invested more in unsecured portfolios. So the portion of unsecured is increasing. And we expect also that to be the case going forward. Having said that, we will still look at secured portfolios because it's an important asset class, but we will also be more -- it's more likely that we will invest in secured portfolios together with others.

Then over to unsecured. It's performing well, and it's done so for almost every quarter since we started reporting with the exception of one. But we are very satisfied with the development on the unsecured side. Of course, this is then 71% of our ERC. And we are -- we see good performance on the vintages. We are more selective on portfolio purchases and will set realistic targets. So that means that this overperformance is a result of the combination of these factors. Will we have this overperformance going forward every quarter? I don't think so. We will be probably a bit lower in Q4. Q3 was a very good quarter. For example, we had some people receive their tax money in Q3 in Finland, for example, which gave a bit of a boost in the quarter. But these are seasonalities that we see, that we normally see. No, no. There's no drama in that.

I would also like to highlight that we have, as Erik mentioned, we have done a partnership with Waterfall or extended it. We have done co-investments with them in Greece already, and it's a good sign of trust that they are now extending their partnership to the Nordic region. So we are happy with that. Then I think I would also like to highlight that in 2019, so far, a majority of portfolio purchases have been unsecured portfolios.

So a little bit about the markets. We have a very strong position in the regions or markets where we have presence. And I think if you look at the industry now and I guess quite a few of you also follow our peers, you will probably have seen that there is lower investments. And that means that there is more discipline in the industry. This again leads to less price pressure on portfolios, resulting in better returns on the portfolios we acquired. But we still see a good supply of portfolios, a combination of several factors, and we also expect this to continue going forward. We have mentioned a backstop in the previous quarter, and this will push the banks to sell portfolios more frequently.

I would also like to point out in connection with what we have communicated that we are looking for more co-investment structures in order to better utilize the capacity we have in our platforms. We have already done 2 quite large joint ventures in Greece. We have done one in Romania. We have done one in Croatia with DDM, and we have now also then announced a partnership with Waterfall. So it's likely that we will see co-investment structures also for the Nordics.

Then we have 2 more regions, Poland and Western Europe, we still -- we also have good interest to co-invest there. So we believe that going forward, we will see a co-investment structure, which will then lead to a larger amount of assets under management. We will see that, that will increase going forward.

Erik, back to you.

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [3]

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Thank you, Rasmus. The capital structure is good. And we are seeing that the leverage ratio is coming down to 3.0 which is lower than anticipated. And going into 2020, we do expect to be between 2.5 to 3. So we're going below 3 in leverage ratio. We also see that the positive development in the covenants regarding the waiver that we received. And we will, as I said previously, most likely or possibly be in line at the end of the year, but we have more than a headroom going forward to the end of Q1. So if you look at the different RCF covenants. We have an equity covenant that is calculated by the banks to be 24.2%. And also, we have a loan to value of 75.4%. So we're not far away from the covenants that we had originally with the banks.

Going back to the financial performance, and this is -- it's a pleasure presenting them after the previous quarter that we had some challenges, and we had to do a write-down. We're back on track. We had NOK 880 million in total income. And we see that EBITDA is at NOK 415 million. Cash EBITDA is the highest ever. We also see that the earnings per share is at $0.44 -- NOK 0.44 not cents. We also see that our portfolio purchase was good in this quarter. And we could anticipate that will so much go down next couple of quarters from the level that we are now. But then again, as Rasmus also mentioned and I mentioned earlier, we also see co-investment structures are increasing. Therefore, the servicing side of B2Holding is going to be increasing.

If you look at the results, I think that there is a couple of nonrecurring cost that's been in the result this time, estimated that they are actually at around NOK 20 million. We also see that we have been doing more legal collection this -- or actually putting more claims into legal collection this time around, especially in Poland and a couple of other places, resulting in somewhat also higher legal cost than previous quarters.

When it comes to the financial side, we have a positive element of one gain on purchase of own bonds that we are also -- was on the last slide. We purchased our own -- some of our own bonds because we believe that, that was a good priced bonds for us to actually get hold of. And also, that gave us a positive development this time around.

The tax aspect. We still see that the taxes are going to be fairly low going forward. We have losses carried forward that will also ensure that we -- and we were able to utilize that now doing some structuring. We can see that we can utilize them to a larger extent than we did previously. So the tax element will be lower going forward.

This is -- when it comes to economies of scale and actually doing things better and efficiency coming down up at the platforms, we see that we have now a positive development, continued positive development on the cost to collect. Compared to last quarter, we are a little bit up, but the trend is still on the downward side.

The balance sheet is still good. We are a healthy balance sheet compared to several others. We have, as I've previously mentioned, we have equity ratio of 24.1%. There's a slight difference between how the banks are calculated and -- in their financial statements, the equity is 24.1%. And it's -- the tangible equity is around 19%. So we are having a very healthy balance sheet. We also see that we have about NOK 872 million now under our co-investment structure. This will increase also going forward.

Quarterly purchase was NOK 1.2 billion for B2Holding. And geographical distribution, it's mainly in Northern Europe that was purchased this time around. The unsecured side was 80% and secured was 20%. After unsecured, we had nearly 61% in forward flows, which is much higher than what you've seen in previous. And depicted predictability of the unsecured claims, forward flow claims is very good. The ERC is -- has increased, and we are now up at NOK 24.7 billion now at the end of the quarter. Around NOK 500 million of that increase is coming due to currency exchange fluctuations. So take that into mind also when looking at these numbers.

We also made some adjustments. We had a net adjustment for the write-down in the first quarter. We did some adjustments when implementing it into our curves in this quarter. So there is a slight change due to that, too. But what we see is that secured -- the unsecured part is now 71% of our ERC going forward. And also, we have 29% of our secured. Secured is still going to be an asset class that we're going to invest in. But as Rasmus said, when investing in secured, we're mainly going to look at JV structures going forward. But still, we're going to make investments in this asset class. We have a great operation in several of the places that are doing very well when it comes to the secured assets.

And that was sort of the presentation today is. If you want to summarize this, we can say the market development is going well. We are pleased to see that the portfolios, the number of portfolios coming to market is very good, and we do have a great capacity to take on several of these portfolios on our -- together with also co-investment structures. We also see that the new organizational change is going to make B2 better capable of going forward and also according to the new strategy that we have for the group. So -- and we look at for -- look, and we do anticipate the market to be better even though you should also remember that in this quarter, we had an overperformance of NOK 30 million under unsecured, which was good. And we also then also expect the portfolio, the collections to be positive, but it might vary a little bit still on both the secured and unsecured. That's the nature of the business. But we are very positive on the development of B2Holding going forward.

Now let's open for questions. Rasmus and I will answer as good as we can. And so please.

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Questions and Answers

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [1]

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Is it that clear? Yes.

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Vegard Toverud, Pareto Securities, Research Division - Analyst [2]

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Vegard Toverud from Pareto. Is it -- as far as I understand, you are going to utilize the waiver until the end of Q1 next year. Is that a correct assumption? So you feel no need to be in line with the original RS there, the revolving credit facility covenants by the end of this year.

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [3]

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Well, it's -- we have the waiver for a reason, and that was until 1 -- Q1. We still want to do our investments, and we want to participate in the marketplace. And if we are deviating somewhat from the waiver from the original covenants by end of the year then so be it. But the way we calculate it, there is a fair chance that we're already in line with the waiver at the year-end, but that remains to see -- be seen. But there's no rush for us to be in line with the waiver at the year-end. What we are looking at is how can we do the investment in the best possible way and get return for the company. And as a -- and if that -- we have a waiver for a reason. So that's no problem.

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Vegard Toverud, Pareto Securities, Research Division - Analyst [4]

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The reason for me asking is that the results can vary somewhat from quarter-to-quarter here in this business. So it means that you are then very comfortable with the Q1 result of next year, if you have sort of a way to go at the end of this year.

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [5]

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If you look at the historic performance of B2Holding, you will see it's fairly stable. It has been going up with the exception of 1 quarter, and that was exceptional. Now if you look at the performance in both -- unsecured is very stable. And if you look at also the cost line of B2 is not deviating that much from quarter-to-quarter, somewhat deviations is there. So I feel comfortable with the performance of B2Holding going forward. And if we're not completely in line with the end of the year, I do not foresee any problems being in line at the end of first quarter.

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Vegard Toverud, Pareto Securities, Research Division - Analyst [6]

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Okay. And on all the corporations you are planning or you're aiming to do now going forward, could you remind us again on the importance of these corporations instead of doing it on your own book?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [7]

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Well, the importance for doing this. If you have the servicing fee, increasing the servicing fee and not noncapital-intensive activities, of course, is important for B2 going forward. It will add to the earnings of B2 but also ensure that we will have the economies of scales on the different platforms that we have. We have a great number of platforms that we can do co-investment structures with. We can't do all the investment ourselves. And therefore, going together with somebody that will give us both the increased efficiency and scalability on our platforms as well as increase our non, let's say, capital-intensive side of the business is important. And I believe these co-investment structures will ensure that we can get both of those.

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Vegard Toverud, Pareto Securities, Research Division - Analyst [8]

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Okay. And then finally, just 2 detailed questions. If I understood you correctly in the run through that you had around NOK 20 million of one-off costs in the quarter. Could you -- if that is the case, can you confirm it and give us some details on what that is? And also, lastly, on the overperformance in the quarter. You said you expect some overperformance or revaluation. And if I understand it correctly, in the P&L on the portfolios also going forward. Could you give us a little indication of what level you expect there?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [9]

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No, and when it comes to the cost related to severance pay and there's one other operating cost in one of the countries that is nonrecurring. When it comes to the overperformance, the overperformance under unsecured. I said that the result included overperform unsecured. We have curves that we anticipated, and we try to be in line with our curves with our expectations.

Now over the past quarters, we have been over collecting on -- under our unsecured portfolios. As such, we can say that the portfolios are a little bit conservative. But I will not state that we will see that overperformance continue to the extent that it's done in the past. But I just -- I think we just realized that we've been having this overperformance in the past. But I'm not going to state, and it takes time if we come to overperform going forward. We have a curve for a reason.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [10]

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I think it was Joakim and then Thomas. Should start with Thomas and then -- he has the mic, so.

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Thomas Svendsen, Nordea Markets, Research Division - Director of Financials [11]

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On your ERC, it was quite much up quarter-over-quarter. Can you just describe that, why it is so?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [12]

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Yes. No, as I said, we did a net adjustment in the curves last quarter. It was very -- and we're then doing it all the way down to the -- every claim we had. We have been looking at every claim at the end of the quarter, but we haven't -- did not implement everything into the curves we have done this quarter. So net effect is the same. But there is some effect that were where you will have a little bit lower collection possibilities in the beginning. And then, of course, it's extended out. We -- end of last quarter, we didn't have time to do all the adjustments that was done this quarter. What also happened is that you have a currency effect of NOK 500 million that you should also take into consideration. And we've been purchasing for NOK 1.2 billion also, which is quite a bit above our amortization of the portfolios this quarter. So of course, that also adds to the picture.

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Thomas Svendsen, Nordea Markets, Research Division - Director of Financials [13]

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A question to you on net interest-bearing debt. It's around NOK 11.7 billion right now. So do you have any targets or any plans for the absolute level of net interest-bearing debt for the -- when we go into, let's say year-end 2020?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [14]

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No, we have not -- we were not, at this point in time set any specific targets. But what I can say is that we expect at least the leverage ratios to go down, meaning that there are still -- we are going to invest NOK 3.5 billion, NOK 4 billion going forward. I think it's a fair estimate. And we -- and also then we have the co-investment structures that we're going to have, which is not going -- so we're not going to increase the debt in a particular way. There might be deviations from quarter-to-quarter depending on what our investment levels are. But -- and also, depending also on our cash flows. But I don't see -- foresee any large increase in that respect, but rather stabilization of the debt levels.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [15]

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Then it was you, Joakim.

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Joakim Svingen, Arctic Securities AS, Research Division - Analyst [16]

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Joakim from Arctic. I think most of the questions have been asked now, but just a couple of ones for me as well. The first was the tax rate was very low this quarter. And you say you expect that to be lower going forward. Could you elaborate a bit on that, please?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [17]

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Yes. No, as going back in the several quarters, we've been saying that we have losses carried forward a little bit, some of them historically and some of them, if you look at our taxes paid historically, it's been quite high. And that's been that we haven't been matching our expenses at the corporate level at the headquarters and also at one other place down in Luxembourg. Now we see that we are generating income streams to the -- so we can also then benefit from the losses that historically, which has not been put on the balance sheet previously. So we see, to a large extent, we will be able to utilize that. And also, of course, the write-down that we did is going to give us tax benefit in some countries.

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Joakim Svingen, Arctic Securities AS, Research Division - Analyst [18]

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So what tax rate should we assume for next year?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [19]

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I think I will revert to that question later. We don't -- you can see it's stabilizing going down maybe a percentage or 2%.

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Joakim Svingen, Arctic Securities AS, Research Division - Analyst [20]

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Okay. And the second one is just on CapEx because investments was a bit higher than we expected at least in Q4. Could you say something about that for next year?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [21]

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No, it's -- and what I said previously, we've been having investment a little bit high in this quarter. We had good portfolios coming our way. And we also see that going into Q4, it's going to be somewhat lower absolutely. But also in next year, I think it will be reasonable that we see around plus/minus NOK 4 billion -- NOK 3.5 billion, NOK 4 billion to come into next year, which again is going to be above our amortization of our portfolios, which is then, of course, we're going to have an organic growth in the business still.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [22]

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Anyone else? Okay, then we can take a few questions from -- that are posted online. We'll start with Rickard Hellman from Nordea. He's a credit analyst, as you know. He's asking us, how do you view your current yields on your bonds in the market compared to some of your peers? Is it sustainable to have such disadvantage in the long term?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [23]

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We are striving to get down the leverage ratio and some of the positive key KPIs when it comes to our debt structure. And you will see development of positive equity capital going forward. It's going to increase as well as the leverage ratio going down. And I think some of them and that will possibly also be a positive development also for the ratings companies, where you see the risk in the company has been shifting to less risky area, and especially with our investments up in the Nordics and some of the Western Europe -- European countries. So you will see the risk level of B2Holding going down. At the same time, you will also see the leverage ratio go down. And hopefully, that will give us a positive development when it comes to rating and also then give us a positive development when it comes to getting our funding cost down to a level that is more in line with the current rating, but also be in line with also Fed rating going forward.

So the level of cost for this sector has, in general, been a little bit higher than the rating of the companies in the sector actually have been having. So I think that will change.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [24]

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Okay. We have one here, [Christopher Buckey]. He asks about the dividend policy. Anything to say about that, Erik?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [25]

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The dividend policy that we have stated -- the Board of Directors has been recommended to the general assembly is still intact. We have 20% to 30%. Last year, we were close to 30%. And the dividend policy will stay the same. There has not been any changes in the dividend policy for B2Holding.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [26]

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Then we actually have a question from our friends at Bybrook Capital. But I'm not sure if I understand the question, but I'll give it a try. Could you comment on your negotiations with banks? Net debt to and he here writes FV, I'm not sure if that's face value, but it could be, of portfolios is now 86%. Where does that need to go for the RCF to continue to be available?

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [27]

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We have 3 banks that are supporting us. And that's DNB, Nordea and Swedbank. And we have a very good communication, and the banks feel very comfortable with B2Holding and the RCF that we have with the banks. And we have a good dialogue when we had the dialogue with respect to the waiver. We only had a positive communication between us. And the debt level of B2Holding is still very comfortable. We will be able to repay our debt in 3 to 3.5 years if we stop buying. So if you look at the debt level of B2Holding, it is comfortable. And I don't see any questions that is going to make the banks withdraw from B2Holdings. So I think the question is answered then.

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Rasmus Michael Hansson, B2Holding ASA - Director of M&A and IR [28]

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Good. That may come with the follow-up question now, but for now, no more questions. And no more questions from the audience? Well, then I guess we have concluded and...

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Erik Just Johnsen, B2Holding ASA - CFO & Interim CEO [29]

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Well, thank you, everybody, for coming here, and have a good day. Thank you.