U.S. Markets closed

Edited Transcript of Cooperatieve Rabobank UA earnings conference call or presentation 16-Feb-17 1:00pm GMT

Thomson Reuters StreetEvents

Full Year 2016 Cooperatieve Rabobank UA Earnings Call

Amsterdam Feb 21, 2017 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Cooperatieve Rabobank UA earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 1:00:00pm GMT

TEXT version of Transcript


Corporate Participants


* Wiebe Draijer

Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CEO

* Bas Brouwers

Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CFO


Conference Call Participants


* Paul Senner Leipo

Societe Generale - Analyst

* Bargesco Marr

Societe Generale - Analyst




Unidentified Company Representative [1]


Welcome, everybody, to the webcast and conference call on Rabobank's full-year results 2016. My name is (inaudible). I'm heading the Investor Relations and Rating Agencies Department. Today, Mr. Wiebe Draijer, our CEO, and Bas Brouwers, our CFO, will present an overview of the results and current developments. The presentation will take about 30 minutes, after which there will be time to take your questions. I would now like to hand over the presentation to Mr. Wiebe Draijer.


Wiebe Draijer, Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CEO [2]


Paulina, thank you. Welcome. I'm happy to be able to present to you the results for 2016.

I think, if I would summarize the results in one sentence, it is that we have taken important steps towards realizing our strategic objectives. You will see, that in the underlying results. Largely, at the same time, you will see that one-offs have made the results as a whole a little bit flat compared to last year. We'll talk about those things in detail.

I will take you through a quick introduction to remind you of what were those strategic intentions, but, more importantly, what have we done to deliver on them. I will do that by shifting to then Page 3. As a quick reminder of what is our strategy when we introduced it in 2016 or the end of 2016, we have there said that we want to become -- to continue to be a substantial player in the Netherlands and in the world of food and agri. We have that through our vision of Banking for the Netherlands and Banking for Food, but, more importantly, for this call, I think we have said we have a three-pronged strategy that on the one hand ensures we have a better focus on our customers with higher satisfaction on their part; we have a more flexible and effective use of our balance sheet in order to achieve the capital ratios for the future; and thirdly, we want to fundamentally improve our operating performance. I will quickly take you through how we have delivered on each of those three pillars in the last year. Before I do that, a quick overview of the Bank as a whole.

For you all, no doubt known, but it's good to just start there. Overall, at January 1, 2016, we have launched Rabobank as one integrated bank with one legal entity and one banking license and one balance sheet. Within that, we are a cooperative bank that has a number of local markets oriented operating banks, local banks, and we have also within that streamlined much of our back-office systems and processes. We have simplified our top structure and we have created a number of central functions to help us make the transition. One of them is a centralized portfolio management unit. You see much of these changes reflected in the numbers.

We've also integrated a large part of our real estate activities into Rabobank, and we are taking steps on some parts of the portfolio as well in 2016. The net result of that is that, first of all, our market shares have stayed strong in most of our domestic markets, and mortgages slightly up, savings roughly flat, and trade industry and services up. And in food and agri, our heritage market position continued to be strong. Also in the rural domain and in the wholesale domain in particular, F&A we have grown, and our ratings, as you are as you know them.

The first pillar of our strategy is that of ensuring an even better customer focus and orientation. The results that we are particularly proud of and thankful for is laid out on Page 5, where you can see the NPS scores of our core banking segments in the Netherlands. We have put ourselves the ambition to, by 2020, have a jump in NPS of about 40 points. And you can see from the results that we have delivered over the past two years that we have made great strides in improving the customer satisfaction as expressed through NPS. We've done that through a series of interventions -- one, to ensure that we are always nearby our customer base physically, but, more importantly, increasingly also digitally. We've improved our banking apps, our investment apps, and introduced various innovations so that customers experience us more directly also when they are online with us.

We have also experimented and expanded our footprints in contact points -- we call them 1,001 contact points -- with mobile offices, with pop-up stores, any format that allows us to be there where our customers are where and when they need us. Also in our wholesale and rural base, our NPS has further improved. And in the wholesale domain, particularly, the Greenwich scores for our bank in the Netherlands has substantially increased over this last year. All in all, we are quite confident that our steps put in place on the client satisfaction front, the first pillar of our strategy, are bearing the first fruit. We are on our way but we need to do more.

The second pillar of our strategy is the one where we said we want to have a more flexible use of our balance sheet with the aim to reduce the overall size with in mind the increased capital requirements from a regulatory point of view. And we have taken a number of steps over 2016 to help us be ready for that reduction and that more flexible use of our balance sheet. Overall, this resulted in a reduction roughly of EUR13 billion in assets partly through sales of activities like that of (inaudible), partly through transactions by which we pass on our mortgage book through institutional investors, partly because of our reduced footprint like in commercial real estate, and partly because we sell part of our stakes in other companies that we do not consider the core of the future of Rabobank. That has led to a net reduction of about EUR13 billion through these transactions only. You could argue that, compared to our ambition overall said in our strategy, this is a small step compared to the number that we have indicated there before, EUR150 billion. For two reasons, this is still work that's we are confident of. We need those options as is laid out here, but also we think we need to consider their overall reduction in light of developments of Basel IV and focus more on the risk-weighted asset reduction perspective rather than just pure assets. So, we are taking a risk-weighted asset lens on that reduction. We are confident that these steps help us to be able to deliver on this result, but we are going to tune this target in the light of developments in Basel IV.

We have also improved our capital ratio as Bas will tell more about that later on, but we have achieved our capital targets for 2020 already in 2016. That was the second pillar of our strategy.

The third pillar is around fundamental improvement of our performance. And in Slide 7, here we take the FTE or the staff size equivalent of that challenge. And as you can see, we have reduced our overall staff size in 2016 from around 52,000 to around 45,000, a reduction if you include the sale of oblong -- of over 6,000 FTEs. We have indicated in our strategy that the overall impact of the performance improvement program would be around 12,000 FTEs, and we think with this first year step, we are well on our way of delivering on that target. This, by the way, is a massive change program within the Bank, where there is a fundamental shift in activities from a fully loaded local bank towards sharing more of the back-office functions across banks and centrally so that the local banks that we have in the Netherlands in particular are market-oriented and have largely customer-oriented personnel. And the rest is taken care of for them combined in a central set up.

At the same time, we've also looked at margin and revenue and are seeing a slight shift towards noninterest revenues. That's part of the intent to broaden our revenue base, and we are seeing growth in our rural business, the pillar of the banking for food domain. All in all, this gives us confidence that we are underway of achieving our targets for 2020 in terms of both cost and profit.

However, if you look at the total cost number, it is a mix of restructuring expenses that are still up, investments in IT that cause it to be the cost ahead of the benefit, and reduction in FTE cost that are migrating in the line that is shown on Page 7. We are confident that our actions are in line with our strategy. We have a strong implementation approach to this, and we are confident that we have that on target and under control. If you add all of that up and look at what does it mean in terms of our financial targets, and I'll pass it on to Bas, on Page 8, we have set ourselves a target of being north of 14% CET1 on a fully loaded basis. On a transitional basis, we already hit the target in 2016, and we are confident that we are going to be north of 14% on a fully loaded basis towards 2020, but maybe already this year, as Bas will illustrate.

Also, total capital ratio-wise, we are hitting the target already in 2016, being in the area of 25%. ROIC-wise, we are still lagging our target of around 8%, but if you look at it on an underlying basis it's more in the direction of 8.3%. So you could argue that, on many key indicators, we are moving already results-wise in the direction of our strategic plan, cost-wise not yet, to a large part because of one-offs, and Bas will talk about that also. But also there because some of the restructuring requires us to make some investments in the transition before the actual cost level goes down to our target of around 53% to 54% on -- including regulatory leverage towards 2020.

With that, I would like to pass it on to Bas, but I do hope we give you the strong image that we are delivering on the strategy that we put forth in the beginning of last year, both organizationally -- operationally, but also financially, both in terms of margin and balance sheet development but also in terms of capital ratios. Bas?


Bas Brouwers, Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CFO [3]


Thank you Wiebe. What I will do in my part is to guide you in a little bit more detail over the main items in the P&L, balance sheet developments and also the capital position. So I would like to start on Page 9 with the net profit number. There you see the fourth year development, the last four years that we are around the number of EUR2 billion, EUR2.024 billion to be exactly for 2016. And what you also see is that the second half of the year contributed more than the first part of the year.

Wiebe was already referring that we have some exceptional items that we had to absorb. We go into details on the next slide. But first, I would like to show you how we come to the EUR2 billion, and that it's feasible in the table on the left, the high-level P&L. So, let's go over that overview.

Total income, slightly down by 1.5%. What you see is the reflection of our balance sheet reduction, EUR20 billion in total over the last two years. What you also see, there's a somewhat lower net interest income is partly compensated by the other income components.

If we look at the operating expenses, you see an increase of EUR450 million. That's not something that you would expect considering the efficiency measures that we are taking, but here you see the impact of the exceptional items which we will cover in a second.

The next two items should be known to you because those were announced earlier. The first one is the regulatory leverage, an increase of EUR150 million which we announced already last year because, in 2016, we were confronted with the additional payments that we had to do for the European deposit guarantee scheme. The next one is the impairment that we took on our stake in Achmea, the insurance company in the Netherlands, and that was announced when we made our publication of the Rabo certificate issuance. That was end of January.

A very positive impact we see with the credit losses. There we are benefiting from the economic upturn not only in the Netherlands but worldwide, and that leads to a reduction in credit losses of around EUR700 million.

If you would add up all these numbers, we end up at a pretax profit number of EUR2.7 billion. And when we deduct the taxes, we arrive at the EUR2 billion that I already mentioned.

On the next slide, we go to the exceptional items. A couple of the components are already familiar to you because we disclosed them with our June publication of the first half-year results. But you see that some amounts have changed and there's also one new item, so I will go through them one by one.

Let's start at the top, the book profit on the sale of Athlon. The announcement of the sale of Athlon was done last summer, and we closed the transaction early December, and that led to a one-time book profit of EUR250 million. Then we see the fair value items. And as you know, those fair value items reflect the imperfections in hedge accounting and the fair value volatility within our structured notes. Maybe some of you recall that, in the first half the year 2016, we saw a negative number, and that was partly mitigated because of an early adoption of IFRS 9 there with the accounting option to account for uncredited adjustments in OCI and not off the P&L anymore, and that's made a quick reverse EUR63 million negative from the first half year and a positive for the second half of the year 2016.

The next item, that is one that is similar to the one in the first half of the year. That is the derivatives framework. It is a generic solution for the Dutch banking industry where we are going to compensate our clients with both derivatives in the past, and that is according to a (inaudible) framework. EUR0.5 billion, that was the number that we set aside in the first half of 2016, and in total, we have set aside EUR700 million over the last years.

The next item, the restructuring costs, that is one that increased significantly. In the first six months of 2016, we set aside EUR190 million and we added EUR325 million, and the reason for this is twofold. Firstly, as we've indicated, we are making more progress on the FTE reduction program, as originally anticipated. That means we had higher redundancy payments. And at the same time, we take a, let's say a proactive view to the future where we expect more redundancies. And we already made reservations for the expected redundancies in 2017, and partly in 2018.

The final one I already covered. That was the impairment on Achmea, and that makes that the total number of exceptions is around EUR1.4 billion, which is twice as high as the number that we saw in 2015. And in 2015, that number was let's say impacted mainly by the goodwill write-off of our retail activities in the USA.

We will then turn to the right-hand part of this picture. You see the pretax profit number from the previous page, EUR2.7 billion. When we add up the EUR1.4 billion, you see that we have a pretax in the line profit of EUR4 billion compared to the EUR3.5 billion in 2015. That makes the underlying profit development is positive, a 14% increase. And what's may be more important, that all our underlying business segments were contributing to this positive development. And it is the domestic retail business, the wholesale and rural business, and also the real estate and leading business. And we have a picture from that development on Page 11. There you have the four business segments.

If we start at the left corner on the top, you see the domestic retail banking activities. The light blue parts here represent the derivatives framework and the restructuring provisions. And if you would exclude these items, you see a nice improvement of the underlying profit and still the main contributor to our total results for the Bank as a whole.

Then we move to the right. The wholesale and rural business were impacted negatively last year by the goodwill write-off in R&A, and you see that they made a nice recovery. And with the jump in profit, they had an outperform from improvement in underlying performance of our total group.

The leasing business, when you exclude the book profit of up loan, a fairly stable development, I think a healthy development that we already have seen from the last couple of years, and business with a very good risk return trade-off.

The real estate segments finally, they also see a nice improvement already the last two years benefiting from a recovery in the commercial real estate market, but also benefiting from the strategic portfolio choices that we have made over the last couple of months.

Next, I would like to touch upon the main P&L items, starting with the total income development. What you see here in the picture is the total income development over the last four years, around EUR13 billion, with a slight decrease in 2016, mainly due to a decrease in total interest income, which I will cover on the next slide. At the same time, you see, when we go a little bit more in detail for 2016, and we exclude the exceptional items, that is lower interest rate, income is partly compensated by a higher fee and commission income. But the reason for this is twofold. We have two segments with increasing fee and commission income in the wholesale banking business. We see that the focus that we have on getting more cross-sell out of our client relationships is paying off. We earn more distribution structuring syndication fees over 2016, 5% more than in 2015. And also in the leasing business, we see an increase of fee income that is due to the increased size of the business.

When we look at the order income components, there I would like to mention three that are let's say different compared to 2015. The first one is the regular results of Achmea. As I explained, we had an impairment on the valuation of our stake in Achmea, and on the other hand, we shared 29% of their results. And today, they made public with a trading update that they made a loss in 2016 of EUR380 million. 29% is reflected in our books. And compared to last year, that's a delta of EUR250 million difference. This negative impact could be compensated by two positive developments. We see a better performance of our markets division, part of the wholesale banking segment, more volatility in the markets, especially after Brexit, but, apart from the first quarter, a very stable and high-performing year for our markets division.

Another positive contributor was Bouwfonds Property Development. That's our developer of residential areas, and they were benefiting from an improved housing market in the Netherlands, many more transactions than last year, and that they then outperformed compared to 2015.

The next slide shows the interest rate development, total interest income down by 4%, partly a reflection of the decreased balance sheet which I already explained by EUR20 billion over the last two years. But if we look at the different segments, we see obviously different components that have a different impact on the interest income.

At the domestic retail banking, we see positive development in newly margins written on new lending. That is for mortgages as for the SME segment. On the other hand, we also see lower margins on the payment accounts, and that is of course having a negative impact on our interest income.

We would look at the wholesale rule, but also leasing business, we see that the commercial margins are stabilizing. But at the same time, we see that, in the treasury activities, we see a negative impact from the negative rates, the low rate environment, and that's especially due to maintaining our liquidity different.

Real estate shows a negative impact on total margin interest for a total income interest income, and that is due to the relatively strong decline in the portfolio, which you will see in one of the next slides.

Let me move on to our operational expenses, again, the fourth year development. What's striking is the year 2013, with a very high structural cost level but also inflected by the LIBOR fine (inaudible) midtier. Was around EUR700 million, but still you see that, at that time, the total cost level was around EUR9 billion. And then you would expect a declining trend in our total expenses, and that's not the case because of the exceptions I was telling about.

And in the next overview, you see what happens to the overall trends when we exclude these one-offs. You see that the total underlying cost development is 2% down 2016 compared to 2015, completely driven by lower staff costs, 6% down, but partly mitigated or partly counterbalanced by higher other operational expenses, and there's one clear reason for that. What we see is that because of the huge FTE reductions, part of our local bank premises become vacant, and will probably be rolled down, those premises, to the expected market value. And that write-down is feasible in the other OpEx development.

When we then look at the cost income ratio, we have three different ratios that are visible in the table. The first one is all-inclusive, so including all of the underlying items and also including regulatory levees, above 70%, and would exclude the regulatory leverage we see, 67%. And when we clean also for the underlying items, you see the we landed at 60.8%, which is exactly equal to the number that we had in 2015. So, for this ratio, we still have work to do up until 2020 to get to the target that Wiebe already described.

The next page shows the development in our credit losses. And as I already explained, we are benefiting here from the economic upturn. When we look at the Netherlands, we see a growth in the underlying economy of around 2%, consumer spending going up, exports going up quite strongly, 3.5% last year and 5% in 2015. And we see also unemployment rates going down to 6%.

Also, in the other areas where we are present in the world, we are benefiting from higher economic activity in the US, Australia, New Zealand, and also the other parts of Europe. So, you see that this is a global development, and not only our Dutch business benefited from the positive momentum. The positive momentum is feasible again when we look at the fourth year development. It started already last year when we had a very let's say strong decline in our total credit losses. And that trend continued in 2016 with even a further decline, and now we landed at 7 basis points of credit losses of our total lending book. Maybe it's interesting to see how that is divided over the four segments that we have, starting with the domestic retail segment, and they are the biggest part of our portfolio out of mortgages.

The housing market again had a very strong year, a recovering year in 2016, a higher number of transactions, far over 200,000. And also the house prices went up again last year with 5%, by 5%. And it also had a positive impact on the LTV, 73% on average in 2015, went down to 69% in 2016. Now, all in all, these developments had the consequence that the risk costs for the credit losses for the mortgage book were only 3 base points over the total mortgage book outstanding.

Moving on to the wholesale and rural segment, you see nearly half of the total credit losses that we incurred in 2015. Starting with the wholesale division, in 2015, we had a kind of specific year where, coincidentally, a couple of our bigger clients came into difficulties and, therefore, we had relatively high credit losses on a couple of clients, but it did not happen again in 2016, which is part of the explanation of lower credit losses. On the other hand, you're seeing globally that, in all areas where we are present, a lower level of credit losses except for Asia.

For the rural business, this costs of credit losses remained flat. The positive momentum in the underlying economy was balanced out by poor weather conditions in a couple of countries and lower commodity prices, so that the total impact was hardly visible in the underlying credit losses.

The leasing business, somewhat higher than last year but still on a very healthy trend, I would say. In the real estate segment, we even saw higher releases from existing provisions than the parts where we had to increase our provisioning level.

Then I would like to move on to our main balance sheet developments, starting with the loan portfolio. Overall, on a net basis, you see a slight decline, EUR1.5 billion, but if we look at the underlying pockets, you see some movements, maybe starting with the first pocket of the domestic retail business, EUR6 billion down. That's the combination of selling off part of our mortgage book and also still relatively high prepayments of our clients benefiting from the low interest rate environment. And the smaller part of the EUR6 billion comes from our SME segment, a slight decline. Still demand is a little bit lacking from that segment, although we see a positive momentum starting in the last quarter of 2016. So we are hoping and we are expecting that that trend will continue in 2017.

The wholesale rural business in total increasing by around EUR3 billion, EUR1 billion in rural and -- EUR2 billion in rural -- in wholesale, excuse me. The complete growth was in the food and agri segment, so in that sense, exactly sitting on our strategy to become a stronger bank in the food and agri business.

Leasing business, excluding that impact of uploan, was up by around EUR1.5 billion, a growth part that we already saw over the last couple of years. And where we saw a relatively big decrease was in the commercial real estate segment, but the decline was held by some asset deals that we did. And then an accounting impact of around EUR3 billion coming from fixed developments, a stronger US dollar, meant that we landed at a total loan book of EUR424 billion at the end of 2016.

Our total balance sheet was down by EUR8 billion, and so, therefore, a bigger number than the decline in our lending book. The reason is that part of the divestments that we did to specially uploan is an operational leasing business, and therefore not reflected in the underlying lending book. And we also sold some stakes in the financial institutions, as already indicated by Wiebe.

Moving from our lending book to the announced view to customers, the dark blue parts showed here, development in the lending book, and the orange part shows the development in the demands due to customers. You see, over the last couple of years, a positive trend in the orange numbers. Last year, an increase in amounts due to customers of EUR10 billion, and this is mainly due to increased corporate deposits, especially at the end of the year. Partly -- part of this money will not be that sticky, so that's a kind of seasonal pattern that we see. But even if you would exclude that, you see that we have a positive trend in attracting more deposits from our clients. And those also results in a lower loan to deposit ratio, 1.22 compared to 1.25 in 2015. And that makes us at least relatively far beyond our target that we had of around 1.3.

The combination of a lower balance sheet and a lower loan to deposit ratio made it also possible to bring down our total wholesale funding, EUR15 billion lower. And we landed there at a number of EUR189 billion. And for the future, we also announced that part of our funding needs will be covered by our corporate bond program that we hope to start in the course of this year.

Finally, I would like to cover the development of our capital ratios, starting with the transitional ratio common equity Tier 1. You see that we started the year with a number of 13.5%. We landed at 14.0%. That means that we generated 1 to 1 percentage points of additional common equity tier 1 capital, because we also had to compensate for the phase in effect of CRD IV. And you see that our profit or retained earnings pushed the sale of up loan and also somewhat lower RWAs contributed to the improvement of our capital ratio.

What we could do, and that is feasible in the picture, is already take into account an event that happened end of January. We issued the Rabobank certificates and they will contribute around 75 to 80 base points to our capital ratios. And of course, we have the CRD IV impact for 2017. When we net these two effects, our capital ratio will increase by another 50 base points, and that would be the pro forma number based on the inclusion of these events.

The next picture shows the development of our fully loaded ratio, and there you see a continuous improvement of this capital ratio. We landed at 13.5% end of 2016. And if you would do the same here, so including the impact of the Rabobank certificates, we would land at 14.3% on a fully loaded basis. And that's I think a very nice message because that is in line with the targets that we have set ourselves for 2020.

And then my final picture, that is the development of the total capital ratio. Also, there, very close or at the bottom of our target, 25% retained earnings. And also additional issuances for tier 1 and tier 2 in the course of 2016 helped us to achieve this target of 25%. In the course of this year, we hope to get more guidance on MREL, but you see that our starting position is relatively good to comply also with the future MREL requirements.

This is it for now, in a nutshell, the development of the financial performance in 2016, which make me tell that you can raise your questions, so we would like to open the floor for questions if you would have them.


Questions and Answers


Operator [1]


(Operator Instructions). [Paul Senner Leipo], Societe Generale.


Paul Senner Leipo, Societe Generale - Analyst [2]


Thanks very much for holding the call. I've just got a question around funding. You've obviously got a very high capital ratio. You don't know what your MREL requirement is going to be. Can you give us some color as to what you think the MREL requirement might end up being and whether you need to fill it with something that is subordinated and what form you might fill it with if you need it, so nonpreferred, senior, etc.? I know that you've said in the past that you welcome the introduction (inaudible). A bit of color on your funding requirements around NPS and also into sub debt would be very helpful. Thank you.


Wiebe Draijer, Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CEO [3]


Looking forward to 2017, we expect a total funding need of around EUR15 billion. If we look at the MREL guidance, that is relatively hard to say because there is still uncertainty what will happen with the combined [buffer] requirement and what will happen with the Pillar 2 requirements, whether that would be included and whether that would be included once or twice. So in that sense, it's hard to say, but I would expect that 25% is at the bottom of the range that we can expect. I expect it to be somewhat higher, not to a very extreme case. Once we get that number, we will also update our strategy on how to comply with these full MREL requirements.

Up until now and also 2017, we will not use another instrument because we are not able to do so. The Dutch law needs to be changed to issue loan preferred senior. We would expect that to be finalized at the end of this year, beginning of 2018. So the first time we could issue a different instrument would be 2018, which means that, up until that time, there will be an additional need, a small need, for additional tier 2 capital in 2017.


Paul Senner Leipo, Societe Generale - Analyst [4]


Thank you, very clear.


Operator [5]


[Bargesco Marr], Societe Generale.


Bargesco Marr, Societe Generale - Analyst [6]


Most of my questions has been already addressed. Just one quick one. Do you guys have any internal target for balance sheet reduction, and do you have any target for your RWAs?


Bas Brouwers, Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CFO [7]


Yes, we have -- that was the number that Wiebe shortly mentioned. We had a balance sheet reduction of EUR150 billion. It was a number that was mentioned with the announcement of the strategic framework at the end of 2015. That was also a number that was based on a very extreme Basel IV scenario, and that number also includes the reduction of our activity book. So the current status around this number is that we are of course very curious what will happen with Basel IV. Considering the current situation, I would expect this EUR150 billion to be a very high number. I expect that, in the end, the balance sheet reduction will not go as far as to EUR150 billion that was mentioned as a kind of worst-case scenario.


Bargesco Marr, Societe Generale - Analyst [8]


Okay. Perfect. Thanks.


Operator [9]


(Operator Instructions). There are no further questions. Please continue.


Wiebe Draijer, Cooperatieve Rabobank UA - CEO [10]


Thank you for asking us to continue. I think we are about to close.


Unidentified Company Representative [11]


If there are no other questions, then I would like to thank you for your time. And if you still have any questions on Rabobank and its results, please feel free to contact the Investor Relations department. And thank you once again and enjoy the rest of your day.


Operator [12]


Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes the Rabobank event call. You may now disconnect your line. Thank you.