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Edited Transcript of CTT.EP earnings conference call or presentation 31-Oct-19 9:00am GMT

Nine Months 2019 CTT Correios de Portugal SA Earnings Call

LISBOA Nov 10, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of CTT Correios de Portugal SA earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 9:00:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Guy Patrick Guimarães de Goyri Pacheco

CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - CFO & Executive Director

* João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento

CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO

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Conference Call Participants

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* Artur Amaro

Caixa - Banco de Investimento, SA, Research Division - Analyst

* Bruno Almeida Da Silva

Banco Português de Investimento, S.A., Research Division - Head of Research

* Joao Safara Silva

Grupo Santander, Research Division - Equity Analyst

* Mark John McVicar

Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division - Head of European Transportation Research

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by, and welcome to the CTT Third Quarter 2019 Results Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) I must advise you that this conference is being recorded today on Thursday, the 31st of October 2019.

I'd now like to turn the conference over to your speaker today, João Bento. Please go ahead, sir.

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [2]

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Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our 9-month results presentation. So we've had what we think was a robust growth for the Bank and Financial Services and also a onetime impact of the Mail for the elections that has a significant contribution for the quarter results.

Starting with Mail. We are showing a decline of 7.6%, which is within our guidance for the year and significantly better than what we had in the first half but with the benefiting from the election effect -- one-off effect that I already mentioned.

Still on Mail, we have -- we are now able to secure EUR 15.1 million full year '19 operating costs on -- over a target of EUR 15 million, of which EUR 13.8 million of the savings are also -- are already visible to our P&L for this first 9 months. We have also increased the target for these cost savings from EUR 15 million to EUR 16 million for the end of the year.

Moving to Parcels. Well, the main highlights are that we are significantly recovering growth in Portugal with almost 14% growth after a slow start of the year. And I think it's worth mentioning a symbolic contract that we've signed with Amazon and started operating 4 weeks ago for delivering parcels in Portugal. And also, there is significant contribution from Spain in terms of underperforming regarding last year. As you know, we lost a significant customer. And we are now disclosing some more details of the turnaround plan, and I'll be back to this later in the call.

Moving to the Bank. This is a landmark quarter for the Bank. The Bank has achieved the operational breakeven almost 4 years after launch. So it is a great quarter for us, taking into account the successful integration of 321 Crédito. The Bank keeps a steady acquisition of customers, monotonic acquisition of 10,000 customers per month and with a bias towards young and digital clients, which is, in fact, good news.

And finally, our second star for the quarter, Financial Services, with an EBITDA margin improvement of 76.6% (sic) [77.6%] with significant growth acceleration of the public debt certificates placements in the quarter from the base that was already high, and we have indeed placed more than 1 -- almost EUR 1.1 billion of public debt this quarter.

Moving to the next slide, which is a new chart that represents how our mail revenues are spread, aiming at -- calling the attention to the fact that although we have a decline in ordinary mail, there's a strong contribution of high-value mail, so indeed, high-value mail with a significant increase and also the fact that registered mail is falling much -- at a much slower pace than normal mail, which is good news and with a very significant contribution of international mail, a trend that we see as -- well, to remain -- eventually to climb given the contribution of, in particular, inbound Chinese e-commerce contributions.

Of course, we have been, as I said, positively affected by a one-off effect of the legislative elections, with the EUR 5.3 million outside -- one-off revenues in the quarter.

Moving to the next slide, where we have the outlook for both Parcels and Financial Services. Well, as I've mentioned already, an interesting growth of 13.3% of parcels in Portugal after a slow start of the year. We see this trend to, if anything, accelerating up to the end of the year; and Spain continuing to be impacted by the full loss of our large customers. If we would remove that effect, rather than a decline of 9.6%, and this is a coincidence, we would have a volume growth of 9.6%, exactly the opposite.

The final chart in the bottom part of the page shows how public debt placement has grown and the aforementioned EUR 1.1 billion placement in the quarter, reaching EUR 2.8 billion for the year. So a very good quarter for Financial Services.

Our next slide is about the Bank. So a very good behavior in terms of acquisition of customer accounts. Indeed, it's almost a steady slope of acquisition of new customers. We don't see this declining, although someday it will happen. With the customer funds reaching now EUR 1.1 billion and with a significant contribution -- new contribution of the off-balance sheet product that we have launched last year, reaching a total amount of EUR 1.4 billion of customer funds accumulated.

If we move to credit. We have an interesting EUR 107 million of outstanding consumer credit, again, a very steady growth of this line of business; mortgages reaching EUR 359 million; and with an extremely significant contribution of 321 Crédito reaching almost EUR 450 million of credit in that business area, which also has a very significant impact on the loan-to-deposit ratio, which was very low and moved from 17% in March last year to 69% in September this year.

So as I said, a very good quarter for the Bank and landmark quarter for the Bank.

Final slide before moving to details about the operations transformation plan and the newly implemented measures and targets that we have. So just to remind you, we have a goal of EUR 13.8 million for last year, which was overpassed and reached EUR 15 million. EUR 15 million was already the declared value for this year. As I said, we are now upgrading that target to EUR 16 million finally this year, and we are also upgrading the target for next year from EUR 15 million to EUR 18 million, so an additional EUR 3 million out of a number of measures that are already designed and some of them in place.

Moving to financials, I will give the floor to Guy Pacheco, our CFO.

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Guy Patrick Guimarães de Goyri Pacheco, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - CFO & Executive Director [3]

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So starting on Slide 10, where we can see our key financial indicators. So our financial indicators improving trends on this quarter. Revenues growing on the third quarter 8.8% with all business units showing growth, especially Banco CTT and Financial Services. We also have the positive effect that João already mentioned of general elections that contributed with an extra EUR 5.3 million in revenues. If we exclude the 321 Crédito revenues, we'll still have grown 4.4%, a very robust growth on the third quarter.

EBITDA growing 41.7%, with the positive contribution of Financial Services and Banco CTT, which has now a positive EBITDA in the quarter and in the 9 months. Net profits reaching EUR 13.9 million in the quarter, EUR 22.9 million in the 9 months. That's a part of the positive operational performance. There was a onetime corporate tax refund credit following the Portuguese tax authority accepting the deduction of capital loss that we incurred in the reorganization of Express & Parcels business back in 2016.

Our operating cash flow also improving to EUR 17.5 million in the quarter and now stands EUR 23.7 million for the 9 months.

Operating costs increasing 4.6% in the quarter or 2.4% if we exclude the 321 Crédito integration, and those costs come mainly from the Express & Parcels division and the Bank. Specific items now EUR 4.3 million in this quarter, mainly related with staff exits and some transaction costs related with 321 Crédito.

Moving to more detail on our revenue. So the revenues returned to growth after a very strong quarter -- with very strong performance in our business units, Banco -- underpinned by Banco CTT organic and inorganic growth and Financial Services also with a very strong performance, placing almost EUR 1.1 billion in public debt on this quarter.

Mail growing 0.5%, benefiting from general elections and with sustained mix effect, as João gave you some color, of inbound mail and registered mail that enables us to offset part of the decline. Although in the 9 months, it's still declining EUR 10.4 million.

Express & Parcels with a good performance in Portugal, 13.9% growth in volumes or 9.7% in revenues on this quarter. Spain is still negative, with [8.1%] decline on the third quarter, although improving from minus 11.9% on the second quarter, so a sequential improvement. And if we exclude that big account loss, the volume should be [10.9%] higher than last year.

Bank growing net interest margin EUR 3.6 million and EUR 2.6 million in commissions and also with an inorganic contribution of 321 Crédito of EUR 12.4 million.

Going to OpEx. Our OpEx increased 1.4% in the 9 months or EUR 6.5 million, out of which EUR 4.8 million coming from 321 Crédito.

Mail reducing EUR 6.1 million despite the growth in termination dues impacted by general election revenues of EUR 1.1 million and costs associated with new regulatory measures of EUR 1.2 million.

Express & Parcels growing EUR 5.2 million, coming from the Portuguese operations. The Spanish costs are flat until -- on the 9 months. This reflects an increase of cost drivers such as labor and fuel that have been putting pressure on our costs on this division this year. Measures are in place and improved margins on the second and third quarters, but this is an area of attention where we continue to work and this is where we continue to have a lot of management focus.

Banco CTT, excluding 321 Crédito, increasing EUR 3.9 million, resulting of higher transaction costs, IT and staff to support higher number of customers and transactions.

On Slide 13, we can see our EBITDA evolution that is growing 17.7% in the 9 months or 41.7% in the quarter. Banco CTT achieving breakeven at EBITDA level in the quarter and in the 9 months. Mail, still declining EUR 4.3 million in the 9 months despite growing 1.5% in this quarter. Express & Parcels, impacted by EUR 2.8 million decline in Spain or additional decline in Spain and the loss of margin in Portugal. Portugal, as I said, is recovering during the second and third quarter. So margins are now back to high single-digit numbers, but this continues to be an area of focus and where we continue to be very focused in improving this number.

Financial Services EBITDA growing EUR 7 million on the back of, as I already mentioned, very strong debt -- public debt placement.

Moving to our balance sheet in Page 14. Our balance sheet continues to reflect the successful expansion of the Banco CTT business unit, already representing 2/3 of our assets. Bank financial assets and credit growing to EUR 1.29 billion and deposits also EUR 1.33 billion, reflecting the growth of the bank. Health care benefits now stand EUR 249 million and the corresponding tax credit of EUR 72 million, so EUR 177 million net. Our lease liabilities now amount to EUR 87 million.

On Slide 15, we can see our cash flow. In the first 9 months of the year, CTT generated EUR 23.7 million on operating cash flow, still affected by EUR 16 million of negative working capital that still reflects the CapEx payment seasonality and EUR 3.9 million related with the growth of the business. So very, very high revenues concentrated in the end of September. Tax is positive on the 9 months following the corporate tax refund after the tax authority accepting the deduction of capital loss incurred in that Express & Parcels reorganization of 2016. And our net cash position now stands at EUR 9 million. And if we were to include the IFRS 16 lease liabilities, that should turn to a net debt of EUR 78 million accumulated to -- on the 9 months.

I'll now pass to João to talk about the news on Spain.

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [4]

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Yes. Well, we've committed in the last results presentation, which was my first one, to come back with a turnaround plan for Spain. And that's the main point in the strategy update. Spain remains a key growth pillar for CTT Express & Parcels business, mainly because of its market size and growth dynamics. In fact, the Spanish Express & Parcels market is disproportionately larger than the Portuguese one. Spain is 5x bigger than Portugal in terms of population or 6x in terms of the economy. The Spanish CEP market size is 8x the Portuguese one. And it's not only much bigger than the Portuguese one. It's also growing faster than the Spanish economy itself. And this is even more important if we look at the potential that exists because, although this significant growth -- I would say, fantastic growth, it's still enjoying a very significant growth on particularly B2C, which has grown almost 20% in the last 3 or 4 years, one of the highest growths in Europe, despite the fact that Spain remains below European average or the comparable economies average. So a very significant number of factors that will -- that represent a great potential for the parcels market in Spain.

It has also some relevance for our business in Portugal because the cross-border flows are very significant, around 30% of the Portuguese international CEP market comes from Spain. And both -- it's growing in both directions. It's growing for Portugal and for Spain. And we believe CTT is in a privileged position to dominate this market. And therefore, this is the reason why we think that Spain should remain at the high consideration in our priorities.

If you move to Slide 18, we're just illustrating a bit of a sad story in the sense that we've been losing money for quite some time. There was a clear trend of recovery that was suddenly stopped by the loss of this large customer, Amazon, as you know. But it also allows us to understand that we probably were not attacking the market in the right way. So we have now a new management team, and the team is fully in place from last September. I would dare to say that it's probably the most experienced team in Spain in the parcels business with a significant history of turnaround. We're talking about SEUR and Correos Express. And the new strategy focuses on organic growth on B2C. And the commitment that we are now assuming is that it will reach breakeven during the year of 2021.

If we move to Page 19, I'll try to give you some color on how do you aim -- do we aim to do so. Well, first because we want to reorient our commercial approach. Tourline, as many other operators, is based on an architectural franchise -- franchisees. They are reasonably efficient in B2B. And they are, I would say, also reasonably inefficient in B2B. So we want to improve direct sales and franchisees through a new contractual approach whereby franchisees will be mainly commercial agents for Tourline, and they could keep in -- especially in small towns, they should keep and they could keep also small B2B customers.

And what refers to B2C, which is, by far, the large -- the largest growing part of the market, indeed, B2B has been roughly steady, meaning without growth in the last 8 to 9 years and B2C in the same 8 to 9 years has been growing above 12%, and more recently, almost 20%. So we want to grow the B2C business mainly through direct sales in major cities. So relations with large customers -- B2B customers need to be done directly with Tourline and not through franchisees.

Moving to improving unit cost and margins. We want to optimize the operation model. We want to further the level of automation, and therefore, with a higher efficiency, with a greater control on distribution. It's very difficult to have a great control on distribution. Obviously, we should integrate on franchisees. And we also want to improve the customer mix because with the higher scale, we can probably be a bit more selective in the customers that we have.

Moving to the quality issues. We want to reinforce quality. Service and distribution quality is by far the main selling lever in the parcels market. We want to revamp the brand, the image and the awareness of Tourline. Indeed, we are going to rebrand Tourline, and it's going to be called CTT Express. This is something to happen soon.

And finally, internal reorganization, and this is related with what the team has already been done. We want to improve management and operations information systems. We want to increase the regional focus, appointing relevant and senior regional representatives. And we want to strengthen operations coordination with Portugal, and we have now mixed teams coordinate in all the flavors of operation systems, commercial and so on between Spain and Portugal.

So this is our presentation. We are, of course, more than happy to move to Q&A.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Mark McVicar from Barclays.

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Mark John McVicar, Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division - Head of European Transportation Research [2]

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A small number of questions from me. First of all, there's nothing explicitly new in terms of EBITDA guidance. So do we assume that the EUR 100 million to EUR 105 million range including 321 Crédito stands? There's no change to that guidance?

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [3]

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Yes. In the absence of comments on the guidance, you should assume that the guidance remains.

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Mark John McVicar, Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division - Head of European Transportation Research [4]

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Okay. Next question is, when you start thinking about the dividend, which I think you said should be paid out of reported net profits. Will you include in your thinking the tax credit as an offset to some of the onetime items running through this year's numbers?

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [5]

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Well, yes, net profit is net profit. This is an exceptional way of having a net profit. And the comment I would like to leave regarding dividend is that the board didn't address the issue so far. So the situation remains as it was or to be -- to have a stronger statement, dividend will never be higher than net results, at least with me.

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Mark John McVicar, Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division - Head of European Transportation Research [6]

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Sure. Sure. Understood, understood. Next question, there's only 2 more. The -- you've obviously raised the cost-saving ambition to EUR 18 million for 2020. Are you looking at ways to find more beyond that? Or do we think that's it for the current plan?

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [7]

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Yes. Thank you. Indeed. As you know, when the plan was announced, it was announced for a 3-year horizon. And of course, most of -- or many of the actions that were designed were designed to last forever. We didn't commit to numbers beyond 2022, but indeed, yes, some of the measures that we are now putting in place will have an impact beyond the horizon of the plan.

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Mark John McVicar, Barclays Bank PLC, Research Division - Head of European Transportation Research [8]

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Okay. And my final question is the EUR 12 million that you're planning to spend on Tourline, is that included in -- was an element of that included in the CapEx guidance of EUR 45 million for this year? Or does most of that spend happen beyond 2019?

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [9]

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Yes. Well, Tourline's CapEx, and I will take the answer also to expand a little bit more on that, is mostly -- almost exclusively related with increasing the level of automation and mostly devoted to small-scale sorters -- in medium-sized regional serving centers. Some of this CapEx -- well, all of the CapEx is included in the overall figure that you've mentioned. Some of them -- some of that is going to be probably present this year.

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Guy Patrick Guimarães de Goyri Pacheco, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - CFO & Executive Director [10]

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Just giving just a little bit more color. So there is some -- on the EUR 45 million guidance for this year, there are some CapEx out of the 12, but it's a small part. Most of the CapEx will happen in 2020 and 2021.

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [11]

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So let me -- coming back to the costs beyond 2020. We are still working on that area, and we might come at a later stage with commitment beyond 2020. But so far, we are only disclosing what was announced and how we are vis-à-vis what was announced. But we most likely will come back with commitments beyond -- for beyond 2020.

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Operator [12]

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Your next question comes from the line of Bruno Silva from CaixaBank.

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Bruno Almeida Da Silva, Banco Português de Investimento, S.A., Research Division - Head of Research [13]

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Just a quick follow-up on the new plan for Tourline. In the EBITDA numbers that you provided in the slide, could you just clarify that aside from the CapEx that you are committing with this plan, what is the -- what we could call the one-off OpEx related with the turnaround? And second question, is it possible to quantify or give more color on the contract with Amazon in Portugal, if there are minimum levels of volume committed for the 3-year contract? And well, anything on that would help us. And finally, in the process of increased efficiency, optimization of the return on your business, are you considering monetizing some of your assets, namely real estate?

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [14]

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Okay. Well, I'm not sure I understood the first question regarding the EBITDA evolution in Spain, so if you could clarify that. But I will start with the other 2 questions. Amazon, we have a nonexclusivity contract with Amazon. It has a commitment of 4,000 parcels -- sorry, 400,000 parcels per year. We are starting in a very, I would say, careful way. The relation is evolving extremely well, I would say. And just to give you some flavor, we are now at around 3,500 parcels per day. Our peak day was actually in the last week, 5,500 parcels. But I'll probably add, although we are very happy with this relation with Amazon and resuming relations with them, that for Portugal, Amazon is not that important e-seller. I mean it is very important e-seller but not as much as in Spain. Because, well, there is no Amazon in Portugal in the first place. And the importance of Amazon for the Portuguese parcels market is not as high as in Spain. Having said so, we are very happy and the feedback we have from Amazon is, I would say, at the best possible to expect 4 weeks after starting operation.

Moving to monetizing real estate. We are working on that. We have committed to come with details until year-end, as we said in the last results call. We are progressing, and I reaffirm that we should come back with some visibility before year-end.

Could you clarify the first question?

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Bruno Almeida Da Silva, Banco Português de Investimento, S.A., Research Division - Head of Research [15]

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Sure. Yes. Sure. I was asking if, aside from the CapEx committed in the turnaround of Tourline CTT Express, if the EBIT that you mentioned in Slide 18, what is the -- what we could consider as one-off OpEx related with the turnaround? So how much of that is...

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [16]

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Okay. It's not one-off. It's, in fact, the trend towards a reference. And so there are 2 basic levers here. One is sales growth and the other one is margin or cost decline. And what has been done is that with this very experienced team, we have reference unit costs for all sorts of cost contribution. And what we are doing is a convergence towards reference unit costs as fast as we can. So it's not a one-off. It's, in fact, the result of taking us a couple of years, we think, to reach the ideal unit costs for all sorts of the operations of Tourline.

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Bruno Almeida Da Silva, Banco Português de Investimento, S.A., Research Division - Head of Research [17]

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Sorry, if I may very quickly, just to make sure I understood. So the only costs related with the turnaround plan of Tourline are these EUR 12 million or -- and then once we expensed any costs related, for instance, with consultants that I assume they would have to be expensed in the P&L and probably, not sure, layoffs because you have a franchising structure, but anything related with that?

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Guy Patrick Guimarães de Goyri Pacheco, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - CFO & Executive Director [18]

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Let's -- to be clear, all the OpEx will be on the EBITDA. It won't be any specific or exceptional OpEx books for the turnaround. So most of the OpEx increase that we will have, it will be in structure and on additional staff. No specific items or one-offs will be booked below EBITDA, if you want, if that's your question.

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [19]

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Let me just complement the Amazon, and because you are a Portuguese analyst, there's -- we didn't include that in the results presentation because it's harder to understand for someone not in Portugal. But we have also struck a very interesting contract with Santa Casa da Misericórdia, which is a very significant contract, not only because the value it has in itself, but also because the value opportunities it opens in our relation with Santa Casa. That one is much more important than Amazon, for example.

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Operator [20]

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Moving to our next question. And your next question comes from the line of Artur Amaro from CaixaBI.

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Artur Amaro, Caixa - Banco de Investimento, SA, Research Division - Analyst [21]

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Just to clarify -- if you can clarify a little bit what's dragging the EBITDA negative evolution in Mail. I recall that on the 9 months revenues on Mail were down 2.8%, but EBITDA is going down at 6.8%, a little bit faster? I assume it's also related with indemnities, but I would like to have an opinion on that. And what can you do to tackle this in the future? And what could we expect for Financial Services next year since they have -- so far, they have a very interesting evolution if we can expect something more or less similar to this year?

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Guy Patrick Guimarães de Goyri Pacheco, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - CFO & Executive Director [22]

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I'll take the first question. As you know, Mail has very low operational gearing. So we have -- it's almost fixed cost structure, not CapEx intensive, but human labor-intensive. And we -- almost all the revenue decline in Mail, almost close to the EBITDA level. That's why the -- you'll see a faster impact in EBITDA as decline -- as revenues decline. And that's also why we are so much focused on putting people out in order to maintain our -- or to sustain our margin levels and all what we are doing in terms of operational transformation plan is aimed to continue to increase productivity levels and to have a more flexible network in order to comply with declining mail levels and also with more Express & Parcels that flow in the network and increasing the integration of the 2 networks.

We also have the regulation impact. And that adds direct costs of new measuring regulations that amounted to EUR 1.2 million in the 9 months and also we are not disclosing the number but also has higher impact on our ability to reduce people because we need to comply with higher quality standards. And as such, we need to recur in -- sometimes to contracted labor to comply with those standards.

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [23]

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Just to complement, we are not disclosing that because, as you know, we have a litigation process with (inaudible) and with ANACOM, and therefore, we cannot disclose the additional costs we have to try to somehow comply with the new quality standards.

Coming to the second question, Financial Services for next year. Well, we -- to be honest, we think, EUR 4 billion, which is almost where we are -- we hope to be in the end of this year, is a bit optimistic. But it still depends very much on the dynamics. It will depend on the first side -- on the first -- on one hand, on the willingness of the republic to maintain attractive products for the general public. Actually, there's no reason, in our view, for the republic to keep the rates as they are. But on the other hand, it's very important for them to keep people who used to save and used to save with Portuguese public debt. So we are here a bit dependent on what they decide but positive. It will also depend, of course, on the other hand on the emergence of alternative products -- savings products. And we don't see that many opportunities -- alternative opportunities. So we are reasonably, let's say, confident that even at lower rates, we could keep a competitive offer in this sense. So I would say a conservative approach, probably would be to expect a slight less important contribution from Financial Services next year, but not necessarily so.

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Operator [24]

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(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from the line of Joao Safara from Banco Santander.

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Joao Safara Silva, Grupo Santander, Research Division - Equity Analyst [25]

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It's a very quick question, and probably I missed it since I joined the call late. When we look at the performance in the quarter in the Mail business and just trying to understand what's the like-for-like performance excluding the impact from the legislative elections at the EBITDA level, if you could help me get the number, please.

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Guy Patrick Guimarães de Goyri Pacheco, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - CFO & Executive Director [26]

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So we add EUR 5.3 million in extra revenues and EUR 3.4 million in extra terminal dues, so EUR 1.9 million of extra EBITDA.

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Operator [27]

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(Operator Instructions)

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João Afonso Ramalho Sopas Pereira Bento, CTT - Correios De Portugal, S.A. - Executive Director & CEO [28]

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Okay. If there are no further questions, thank you for coming. Thank you for the questions as well. And we will remain available to clarify any questions you have in the forthcoming days. Thank you very much. Good morning.

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Operator [29]

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That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you for participating. You may all disconnect.