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Edited Transcript of DEQ.DE earnings conference call or presentation 16-Aug-19 8:00am GMT

Q2 2019 Deutsche Euroshop AG Earnings Call

Hamburg Sep 4, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Deutsche Euroshop AG earnings conference call or presentation Friday, August 16, 2019 at 8:00:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Wilhelm Wellner

Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board

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Conference Call Participants

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* Andre Remke

Baader-Helvea Equity Research - Co-Head of Equity Research & Equity Analyst

* Kai Malte Klose

Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I am Emma, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the H1 half year financial report 2019. (Operator Instructions)

I would now like to turn the conference over to Mr. Wilhelm Wellner. Please go ahead.

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [2]

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Ladies and gentlemen, good morning from the team of Deutsche EuroShop. This is Wilhelm Wellner speaking, and today, I would like to present you our results for the first 6 months of the financial year 2019. I'm in this call together with my colleagues, Olaf Borkers and Patrick Kiss.

Let's start with the operation as introduction, that is -- that we usually look on the retail turnover of our tenants and the split-up by retail segment on Slide 2 of the presentation that's available in the back.

The retailers in our centers showed a diverse picture in the first half of the year. Before we start, I would like to mention that some special effects from ongoing restructurings, like in Pécs and Magdeburg, are included in those numbers. Furthermore, we experienced the step-by-step reduction of Sunday openings in Poland as well as the opening from the Forum Gdansk end of May 2018, a major competitor of our Galeria Baltycka.

But let's come to the overall picture. We have seen a fairly balanced result for the absolute retail turnover. In the first 3 months, this number was still minus 1.6%, now it's on the same level as in the previous year's period. As we have explained in our last call, this was mainly due to the fact that Easter holiday and the corresponding Easter sales took place in Q2 only instead of Q1 the year before.

While our tenant turnover in the centers abroad increased by 1.8%, they decreased slightly in Germany by 0.4%. And on a like-for-like basis, our retailers saw a plus of 1% abroad and the slight reduction of 0.2% in Germany. That is, on a like-for-like basis, on a total, a plus of 0.1% for the whole portfolio.

Looking at the different retail segments. We see a spread between the performances of the various segments. In our German centers, and on a like-for-like basis, shoes and leather goods showed a solid plus of 2.3%. Health and beauty also improved nicely by 2.1% as well as sports and food catering with pluses of 1.8% and 1.6%, respectively. Fashion, which accounts for approximately 40% of our space and 30% of our sales, came out about flat, with a slight minus of 0.1% after minus 0.3% in Q1.

Among the segments that showed lower sales, we saw services, minus 4.5%; food, minus 2.2%; and general retail, minus 1.4%. General retail includes bookstores, toys, household goods and jewelries, for example. And then we saw department stores and hypermarket also showed some lower turnover numbers of minus 0.7%, and also electronic came down by 0.6%. For electronics, it's worth to mention that in the previous year period, the sales included some extraordinary positive sales effects resulting from the soccer world's championship. Our rent-to-sales ratio in Germany now stands at 9.4%.

Customer footfall decreased slightly in the first 6 months. We saw a minus of 0.8% for Germany and a plus of 0.8% for our international centers compared to the first half of 2018. Overall, the footfall was down 0.5%, and after minus of 1.6% in Q1. Those footfall numbers are, of course among other things in the market, also affected by heavy construction works in the surroundings of our centers, for example in Magdeburg or Wetzlar, and increasing number of Sunday closings and (inaudible).

Given the current market environment, all in all, decent numbers, but higher stationary retail sales growth numbers in Germany would, of course, be appreciated. However, I think it's important to mention that an increasing proportion of the stationary retail -- stationary tenant sales become, in a way, invisible for the stationary retailers and of landlords as shopping online -- online shopping and omnichannel business is growing further.

The products detected and tried by customer by strolling through a mall and a shop, that is later being ordered and paid online and picked up by a click and collect, maybe even in another shop or mall, is hard to be accounted for as turnover or at least as proportion of turnover for the physical store space. Nevertheless, physical shops fulfill an important element in the customer journey and the sales process, e.g., branding, showrooming, logistics and services. It is important, one way or the other, to evaluate the value of such functions when talking about physical shop space and, of course, also rents.

This sector is widely accepted, but needless to say that this is a complicated task for all parties involved, and that this is a bigger effort to have that addressed in rent negotiations. Anyone who wants to hear more about those potential implications and effects and the latest view on leasing, omnichannel and the digitalization of shopping malls should reserve her or his time on the 5th and 6th of September. At that time, we hold our Investors Day in and around Frankfurt, and you're happily invited to join.

So after the operation, let's now continue with the financials. Starting on Page 3, and we start with the revenues. The numbers of the first half year look as expected. And a continued demand in stationary retail and leasing environment, revenues increased slightly by 0.3% year-on-year to now EUR 111.9 million, with the foreign centers growing faster than Germany. You also can see on that slide that the share of the revenues of our German centers and the properties abroad almost remained unchanged.

On Page 4 we show you the development of our EBIT, that increased parallelly to now EUR 98.2 million, which corresponds to a plus of 0.2% due to the rise in revenues and other operating income. While maintenance costs were lower than last year, write-downs on rents were slightly higher, but they are below 1% and therefore still on a low level. The cost ratio now stands at 10.3%, well within the budgeted range. Further components of the operational costs are fees and the management fees and the non-allocable ancillary costs.

On the next page, you can see the development of our financial results, that improved by EUR 2.9 million to 16 -- no, minus EUR 16.3 million. Two major effects are responsible for this improvement. On the one hand, the interest expenses decreased by EUR 1.5 million due to regular loan repayments and due to favorable refinancings if only -- especially for the Altmarkt-Galerie Dresden.

On the other hand and as a one-off, other financial income grew substantially. This came from an expected interest income in relation to an expected trade tax refund for previous financial years, which should result from a ruling made by the German -- Grand Senate of the German Federal Fiscal Court, the BFH, at the end of March. We have described this extraordinary effect in more detail in our annual report 2018, for those of you who want to follow up on that topic which deals with some very complex and special parts of the German tax law.

So let's follow up on the overall change of the financial result of this EUR 2.9 million. This is visible by following the bridge from the left and starting there, you see cost savings on the portfolio of EUR 1.5 million. The operational and equity profit was also slightly up by EUR 0.3 million, also driven by slightly higher rents and lower interest costs. And the valuation of swaps contributed minus EUR 1.5 million and the plus EUR 2.7 million came from the one-off interest income I just explained. The minority profit share remained almost unchanged from the previous -- on the previous year level.

This leads us to the EBT adjusted for valuation results on Page 6. EBT adjusted for such valuation rose from EUR 78.9 million to 91 point -- sorry, EUR 81.9 million, which is a plus of 3.8%. Here, the standing assets contributed EUR 1.8 million; the other extraordinary financial income, EUR 2.7 million, as just mentioned; and the swaps accounted for minus EUR 1.5 million. Excluding the one-offs from the tax items, such EBT would have improved by 0.4%.

Looking at EPRA earnings on Page 7, that means the following. Operating profit, excluding management gains and losses, increased from EUR 73.6 million to EUR 84.3 million, again particularly due to the trade tax reimbursement but also because of the overall positive factors just mentioned before. EPRA earnings per share therefore increased from EUR 1.19 to EUR 1.37. However, you should further look on those number excluding the nonrecurring effect from the tax reimbursement. And there, the EPRA earnings would have improved by EUR 1 million, a plus of 1.3% or a plus of EUR 0.02 per share to now EUR 1.21.

I would like to come to the consolidated profit of the group on the next page. This increased by EUR 1.9 million, now standing at EUR 66.2 million. Again, you see more or less the same effects. The tax item contributed EUR 9.8 million, and the profit after tax from the standing assets improved the result by a further EUR 800,000. The valuation accounted -- after tax accounted for a plus EUR 1.1 million to the change. All other changes resulting from non-efficient interest swaps and deferred taxes were very, very limited.

Earnings per share increased from EUR 0.89 to EUR 1.07. Excluding the one-off tax item, the increase would have been EUR 0.02 to EUR 0.91.

On Page 9, we have outlined the development of the FFO. For the first half of the year -- of this year FFO, which excludes the valuation result of the one-off tax item, declined slightly from EUR 75.5 million to now EUR 75 million; on a per share basis, from EUR 1.22 to EUR 1.21. This is due to a higher cash tax payment in the period in an amount of EUR 800,000. And you can find the detailed FFO calculation on the slide at the right side.

Let's now come from the P&L to our balance sheet on Page 10. The total assets there, as you can see, were slightly down and now standing at EUR 4.59 billion. That's a reduction of EUR 17.9 million when we compare that to the reporting date end year 2018. And the main effect here comes from the payment of the dividend in June. Also, end of June, current and noncurrent financial liabilities stood at EUR 1.5 billion, which was EUR 4 million lower than at the end of 2018 following scattered repayments. Noncurrent deferred liabilities increased by EUR 9.6 million to now EUR 462 million, resulting from the regular tax depreciation. Other current and noncurrent liabilities and provisions remained rather unchanged.

Total equity, including minorities, decreased by EUR 27.8 million, also because -- mainly because of the dividend payment. As you can see, our equity ratio remains at a strong 55.4% and the consolidated LTV now stands at 32.3%. On a look-through basis, which is probably a better number to look at, that is the LTV calculated fully proportionally according to the group's share in all assets, the LTV now stands at 34.5%, also a very reasonable and lower level. And I think this is worth to be mentioned given the ongoing discussions about shopping center yields and valuation and sufficient LTV head rooms.

Talking about debt, on Page 11 and 12 we give you some more information covering that topic. Of our consolidated bank debt, some EUR 670 million mature in the next 4 years. We still see, as in the past, potential for some reductions of our interest costs over the next years. Currently our consolidated debt builds an average interest rate of 2.5%. The average interest rate, however, has already come down significantly in the last years.

Given the current interest rate environment and quotation from banks, we are confident to refinance our debt in Germany around 1.5% when we look at 10-year durations. However, given this situation, it could also be well below that in special situations. Our weighted maturity of the loan portfolio now stands at 5.7 years.

And on the right side on Page 12, you will see some more details for loans that we have already extended in the past. As an example, we have fixed loan of EUR 139.9 million at 1.68% interest rate for 10 years for our A10 Center close to Berlin, and another loan of EUR 59 million (sic) [EUR 46.9 million] at a very low 1.09% for 9 years for the Saarpark-Center.

After the detailed information, let's now come to the guidance for 2019 and 2020. We did not include any changes, as you can see on Slide 13. Based on today's information, we expect that the revenues remain stable at a range of EUR 222 million to EUR 226 million in 2019 and 2020. Correspondingly, we are forecasting our EBIT between EUR 194 million and EUR 198 million also for both years. And for 2019, we forecast our EBIT -- EBT, sorry, excluding valuations, between EUR 159 million and EUR 162 million. For 2020, such numbers should come in between EUR 161 million and EUR 164 million. For the FFO, our forecast is EUR 2.40 to EUR 2.44 for this year and EUR 2.43 to EUR 2.47 per share for 2020.

After the numbers, now the outlook on Page 14. Looking at the operations, we continue to roll out our Mall Beautification and At Your Service programs. We are happy that we've now completed 4 centers. These are in Magdeburg, Rhein-Neckar-Zentrum, the Herold-Center close to Hamburg and the Billstedt-Center in Hamburg. And at Altmarkt-Galerie in Dresden, works are in progress. And in Hamm, Dessau and Neunkirchen, the program should start or have been started this year.

As mentioned before this qualitative service show that our centers in Magdeburg and now also in the Rhein-Neckar-Zentrum, it shows that our customers and shoppers like the new services and the atmosphere improvements very much.

On the financing side, we are currently working on refinancings of a total amount of EUR 262 million maturing 2020 and '21, and we expect to sign those starting in the first year of -- first half of next year. And as said before, the banking market is currently still positive and we are, as of today, confident that we can agree on attractive terms with the banks. Finally, we look forward to further increases in the dividend, that is EUR 1.45 (sic) [EUR 1.55] for the financial year 2019 and EUR 1.60 for 2020.

Last but not least, after all those numbers, I again kindly invite you to join the sixth edition of our real estate summer on the 5th and 6th of September this year. We'd like to show you our Rhein-Neckar-Zentrum close to Manheim, where we, as just mentioned, have completed our At Your Service and Mall Beautification programs. And additionally, we'll walk with you through our Forum in Wetzlar and the Main-Taunus-Zentrum.

And of course, we'll provide with an informative supporting program with interesting speakers and presentations. Topics to be covered are the situation at the leasing market, omnichannel and the digital mall, our step forward to combine the on and off-line shopping world. And please feel free to contact our IR team. We still have some places available.

Thanks for listening so far, and I'm happy to take your questions now. Operator, please go ahead.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) The first question is from the line of Andre Remke with Baader Bank.

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Andre Remke, Baader-Helvea Equity Research - Co-Head of Equity Research & Equity Analyst [2]

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A number of questions. First, starting with the turnaround of the like-for-like retail turnover, especially from the abroad centers, seems to be strong versus the first quarter. Is it -- especially abroad, is this also based on Easter? Or are there special centers contributed in the first -- in the second quarter?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [3]

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No. This has also brought an impact or had an impact from Easter, on the one hand, but we see, especially in Brno, very nice growth numbers, high single-digit growth numbers, so we are happy. On the other hand, these are somehow compensated by our Galeria Baltycka where we -- I mentioned that just before, a real big competitor in the inner part of the city opened, so this is normal that you lose some turnover there at the beginning. So -- but still, overall -- and I should add, of course, Hungary, which is performing fine. So it's not just the Easter effect, it's some really nice developments if we set apart the Galeria Baltycka where there's clear reason for a new competitor camp.

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Andre Remke, Baader-Helvea Equity Research - Co-Head of Equity Research & Equity Analyst [4]

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Yes. And are you planning any action on the Gdansk center, direct on that, or how does it proceed? [Or isn't it] over the last couple of months or quarters, or any sterilization insight?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [5]

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Yes. I think we see already that -- I mean there was kind of a bit of a shift that turnover went to the new center and that you have a new level, and that level is still -- if we look at those numbers and we know or at least from the past numbers from other also good centers, we have still on a per square meter basis, very, very nice numbers. But of course, we saw a slight shift downwards or a visible shift downwards, but I don't expect that to be a trend. It's just releveling.

And of course, we do something. We also invest in the center in the -- in the inner part something also, some At Your Service and Mall Beautification, and this goes along with the new 10-year re-leasing, which is coming up or is in the process at the moment and we probably -- we're working on some big nice anchors on present in Gdansk at the moment. So yes, we do something, but to some extent, you have to bear it if a new competitor comes and start from that level.

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Andre Remke, Baader-Helvea Equity Research - Co-Head of Equity Research & Equity Analyst [6]

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Okay. And is the former expansion plans, that they are at the moment completely on hold or are they off?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [7]

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They are off for retail purposes, put it that way. But of course, we have that plot and we now look what we can do to create some value with that plot going forward. I mean there are other -- we're a shopping center company, but we have some flats, we have some offices. We're not -- we will not change our strategy, but once -- as we have that plot, we work over the next 1, 2 years to see what we can do there because it's an inner-city plot and see whether we can create some value there. But not -- I wouldn't expect it to be for retail purposes. That's what we do now within the building and we will shift something, give some anchors more space and maybe get the one or the other big anchor, that's what we want to work on or are working on -- not want to work on, are working on.

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Andre Remke, Baader-Helvea Equity Research - Co-Head of Equity Research & Equity Analyst [8]

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Okay. Perfect. Then the second question, what is your, let's say, the [initial] impression from discussions with the tenants currently with regard to rent levels and in particular the leasings?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [9]

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Yes. I mean the market is tough. This is not true that you will not hear that from our side alone, I assume. When we look out the leasing development, you always have a couple of effects. One is that, of course, you have the indexation, turnover rents and individual developments there. And there, at least reindexation helps you at the moment. But of course, on average, we see that some or average rents come in on the re-leasings a bit at the moment that eats up a part of the indexation growth that we have. And it's tough. But I think you see and we talk about that, about anchors and each center from time to time. We're in a position to, let's say, if it -- to defend our positions, to keep our anchors, sometimes we have to give in on rents. That's a fact that we have.

Overall, you see the development, which is still a plus. But -- and we have the Managing Director, Leasing, at our annual -- not annual, sorry, at our Investors Day. So there, you would have the chance to address the questions directly. It's tough, but it's not as disastrous as it appears if you read the headlines in the newspapers. This is, of course, true for some tenants, yes, but not for the overall market. And we have segments where we still see some nice rent increases, but also we see some segments where the rents give in. And this is, of course, true not for all tenants but for the segment overall that is textile, which is not probably surprising.

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Andre Remke, Baader-Helvea Equity Research - Co-Head of Equity Research & Equity Analyst [10]

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Okay. Okay. And a last question from my side. On your portfolio valuation, I know you would do the valuation process again by year-end. But what are your expectation from today's perspective, rather stable or a slight increase in market yields? Are there any transactions in the market which could maybe provide any indications on that?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [11]

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Yes. It's probably the hardest thing to predict and we have refrained in the past to predict it. But I mean our task is to preserve rents as a basis, and then you come to the multiples of the yields. And there have been some shopping center deals in the market in the first quarter. We haven't -- we don't have the report on the second quarter yet, but they were rather smaller centers. We have heard there was a fund buying a whole portfolio, but this is not public data. So there is a little evidence at the moment, we have to wait where our [values then] come from.

But I think on the yields, our common sense is that they -- and I say common sense, it's not our house opinion, but the common sense is that they will give in a little bit or become a little bit higher following the market. And it's not -- my personal expectation is not as tough as what we see in the U.K. or so, not close to that. But I -- yes, it's either stable or giving in slightly. But this is [scary thing], yes? And then, yes, if you talk to agency, probably see, on average, yes, probably slightly giving in. Let's say stable. We have to wait. Yes.

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Operator [12]

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The next question is from the line of Kai Klose with Berenberg.

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Kai Malte Klose, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst [13]

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I've got a question on Page 4 of the report. There, you mentioned that the -- that you have higher write-downs of rent receivables. I didn't get your comment correctly at the beginning, and maybe have a bit more clarity where these higher write-downs on rent receivables refer to. Second question would be, what was the cost ratio by June '18? And you also mentioned in the report that you had some reversal of provisions in the first half this year. Maybe you could also give a bit more clarity on year-end in reverse. Do you see the need to increase the provisions either for now or for the full year due to the [renting] market and due to the tenants -- due to some tenants in your portfolio?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [14]

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Yes. Thank you, Mr. Klose. Let me start with the later one. I mean with the reversals you see, we are very strict on our write-down policy, yes? I mean there's always a judgment on some instances, but we are very strict, so we write it down. But then, of course, we work with legal departments and [reserve] securities to get it back. So that's why we also see a visible small number that we get reversals on that end.

For the higher provisions that we made on lease income, there was no big special effect. I was looking deeper into that. But we had some, I'd say, smaller franchisees who lost 2 or 3 of their shops and we lost a little bit. We had, for example -- and we had the case of Vidrea, you maybe have followed that with Miller & Monroe following Vögele, where we had some effect, but also not dramatic. We had some smaller, let's say, our tenants that couldn't proceed, so we have to exchange them.

And we have one special case. You probably remember in Wuppertal, last year, we had a big flooding from a thunderstorm, so the whole basement in one part had to be redone and we lost some -- let's say, we had an argument with the tenant whether he would have to pay or not. At the end, the insurance will cover that, but we had to write-down that rent. But the insurance income will be accounted for as extraordinary income. So we wouldn't be allowed to net it. So this is part of the reason.

Overall, we come from I think over the last years -- I was a bit surprised being 15 years in the industry how low the depreciation on rents were here. And in the last years, it was roughly 0.5%, around 0.5% or 0.6%, 0.7%. Now we had 0.9%, which is still a very good number. So we'll be strict on those provisions going forward whenever we see it and we will probably budget a little bit more because times get tougher, yes? But I don't see a flooding there looking at provisions at the moment. But if other bigger tenants like [REWE] from a size-wise, it's plenty of those or more of those would come, then this number would, of course, go up.

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Kai Malte Klose, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst [15]

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Okay. Just to make that clear. So it was 0.9% write-downs on rent receivables by June this year compared to 0.7% by June last year?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [16]

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Yes. I think it was 0.6% by last year. It is the coincidence with EUR 1 million, yes? So it was EUR 0.9 million this year and was EUR 0.6 million last year, yes? And this corresponds with EUR 112 million in revenues roughly to EUR 0.95 million to EUR 0.6-something million, yes?

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Kai Malte Klose, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst [17]

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Okay. Okay. Then I have a question on FFO calculation. You show in the income statement measurement gains of minus EUR 7.1 million and you're adding back in the FFO segment EUR 8.4 million. I think you might have explained it in the past already, but what's the difference between the number in the income statement and in the FFO statement?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [18]

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In the income statement, this is probably the one you have looked at the -- it's just the group, the concern. And here, we include also for transparency purposes and proper calculation also needs to be done, we add equity variation result. It's probably best to be seen -- yes, you see it best by (inaudible) on Page 4. You see it we have even the 2 numbers being spread up to read it, the levels we gave is EUR 7.1 million and the level we give at-equity EUR 1.2 million, that adds up to EUR 8.4 million. And of course, for the earnings, you have to take the full number.

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Kai Malte Klose, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst [19]

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Okay. And the last question would be regarding your portfolio investment plan. Could you just indicate how much was effectively spent into the shopping centers you mentioned in the report and how much was paid to ECE as ending agent or asset manager on the [sort of SE]?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [20]

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Yes. I mean the spend number you can take this 8.3 -- or EUR 8.4 million, running that correctly. That's the investment for really constructions, improvements and so on. A major part of that also, of course, goes for third parties like construction companies, like parties who provide lighting and colors and doing all the work. We employ ECE here as general planner and architect, yes, because this is to be designed, supervised, the project management need to be done. And so on average, they get between 20% and 25%, which is normal, which is calculated after and are just switched to German at the HOAI, the Honorarordnung für Architekten und Ingenieure, which is mandatory in Germany and we are -- employ those fees for architects and general planner.

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Kai Malte Klose, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst [21]

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And they are included in this EUR 8.4 million?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [22]

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Yes, of course. Yes, of course.

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Kai Malte Klose, Joh. Berenberg, Gossler & Co. KG, Research Division - Analyst [23]

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Okay. And the last question would be, you had a 0.3% like-for-like revenue growth, could you indicate what was the split here coming from indexation and from -- yes, from higher rents?

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [24]

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Yes. We should probably -- if we assume that we had an, let's say, inflation of, let's say, 1.3%, 1.4%, this is the major part of that. And that was, if you turn it around a little bit, eaten up by the re-leasings. And we had -- so that makes up probably the difference between 1.3% and 0.3%. So we lost on the re-leasings on average 1%. With the penalty payments of tenants which also included, but they are always between, let's say, EUR 400,000, EUR 700,000 so far, the effect is not so big. So inflation is a big, big supporter of the rental growth at the moment.

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Operator [25]

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(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time, and I hand back to Mr. Wilhelm Wellner for closing comments.

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Wilhelm Wellner, Deutsche EuroShop AG - CEO & Member of Executive Board [26]

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Yes. Thank you very much. We hope to see many of you close to Frankfurt at our Investor Day, and I will you be happy to discuss with you with more time and more detail about what's going on in the industry. Thank you very much.

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Operator [27]

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Ladies and gentlemen, the conference has now concluded and you may disconnect your telephone. Thank you for joining and have a pleasant day. Goodbye.