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Edited Transcript of HOT.DE earnings conference call or presentation 31-Oct-19 3:00pm GMT

Q3 2019 Hochtief AG Earnings Call

Essen Nov 11, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Hochtief AG earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, October 31, 2019 at 3:00:00pm GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Marcelino Fernandez Verdes

HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO

* Michael Pinkney

HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Head of Corporate Strategy

* Peter-Wilhelm Sassenfeld

HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - CFO & Member of the Executive Board

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Conference Call Participants

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* Christian Korth

HSBC, Research Division - Analyst

* Guillermo Fernández-Gao Sánchez de Nieva

Kepler Cheuvreux, Research Division - Equity Research Analyst

* Marcin Karol Wojtal

BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division - Analyst

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Good day, and welcome to the HOCHTIEF 9-month 2019 Results Call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Michael Pinkney. Please go ahead, sir.

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Michael Pinkney, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Head of Corporate Strategy [2]

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Thanks very much operator. Good afternoon to everyone, and thank you for joining our HOCHTIEF results call for the first 9 months of 2019. I'm Mike Pinkney, Head of Corporate Strategy, and I'm here with our Chief Executive, Marcelino Fernandez; our CFO, Peter Sassenfeld; and our Head of Capital Market, Tobias Loskamp, along with several other members of our senior management team. We look forward to answering any questions that you may have, but first let me hand you straight over to our CEO who is going to run us through a key aspect of the results. Marcelino, all yours.

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [3]

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Thank you, Mike and the team. And good afternoon, to everyone. HOCHTIEF has continued positive momentum during the first 9 months of '19. The group achieved a solid increase in profit, sales and order book compared with the previous year with the positive underlying trend in net cash from operating activities. Looking at the key financial highlights on the Slide 3. Operational net profit increased by EUR 108 million or EUR 108 million or 29% year-on-year to EUR 478 million. Nominal net profit rose by 13% year-on-year to EUR 456 million. Both profit measures include a EUR 96 million contribution from our 20% equity consolidated stake in Abertis. Sales in January to September '19 period increased by over EUR 1.3 billion or 8% to EUR 18.8 billion. On a FX-adjusted basis, sales were up 5% year-on-year. Sales growth was led by an increased contribution from construction management, mining and services related activities thus further improving the positive trend in the Group's risk profile. Margins were solid with HOCHTIEF's operational PBT margin standing at 4.3%.

Net cash from operating activities increased significantly by an underlying EUR 460 million year-on-year. HOCHTIEF ended September '19 with the net cash position of EUR 950 million after distributing EUR 408 million in shareholder remuneration during the quarter.

At the end of September '19, the group's order book reached a new all-time high of EUR 50.5 billion, an increase year-on-year of EUR 5.2 billion or 12%.

Let's move to cash flow. Net cash flow from operating activities of EUR 595 million rose by an underlying EUR 460 million year-on-year with all 3 divisions driving this positive trend. If we consider the last 12 months period to adjust for the impact of seasonality, HOCHTIEF has generated a stronger level of net cash from operating activities of EUR 1.5 billion or over EUR 1 billion pre-factoring. The group remains focused on cash-backed profits. As you are aware, the group uses nonrecourse factoring as an operational tool, which allows it to more efficiently manage cash flows and match revenues in quarters.

At the end of '18, factoring stood at EUR 1.7 billion and since then has been steady. The working capital variation is mainly influenced by seasonality in the 9-month period and over the last 2 years by increasing use of alliance-style contracts and a strong mining growth at Sydney. The outlook for working capital in the seasonally strong fourth quarter is positive.

Due to increased mining and [job-costed] tunneling work, net operating capital expenditure increased by EUR 63 million to EUR 342 million. Looking at the last 12 months, HOCHTIEF has delivered over EUR 1.1 billion of free cash flow from operations. We have the balance sheet overview on Slide 6. The group continues to have a robust financial position. HOCHTIEF ended September '19 with a net cash position of EUR 950 million. Adjusting for the close to EUR 500 million net impact related to our 20% stake in Abertis, net cash would stand at over EUR 1.4 billion, a EUR 150 million increase year-on-year. The movement in net cash during the quarter includes over EUR 400 million in shareholder remuneration. And looking at the last 12 months, our balance sheet also reflects more than EUR 400 million in net CapEx. Since July, the rating agency Standard & Poor's has reaffirmed its BBB rating for HOCHTIEF, CIMIC and Abertis and all with stable outlooks. So our balance sheet remains very robust, and we continue to be well positioned to actively consider all our capital allocation options.

Slide 7, we show some of our major recent project wins. CIMIC has secured a number of important projects during Q3. At the end of August, UGL and CPB along with joint venture partners reached contract agreement with the Queensland government for a AUD 900 million alliance-style contract as part of the Cross River Rail project. One of the CIMIC's most significant new orders is the AUD 1.3 billion contract extension at the Curragh Mine in Queensland where Thiess will provide services for a further 6 years. As a part of the joint venture, CPB Contractors is undertaking earthworks for the new Western Sydney International Airport. And earlier in the quarter, UGL announced the Sydney Trains contract extension in a joint venture worth AUD 900 million. Let's move to America's Turner. Turner, which has again been named a top green building contractor by a leading trade magazine is to construct a major hospital facility in Oregon. And Flatiron is to widen a large section of Interstate 405 highway in the state of Washington for $700 million. While back here in Europe, HOCHTIEF has won a EUR 113 million contract to build a section of the R2 Highway in Slovakia. And let's move on to the slide 8. By the end of September, HOCHTIEF's order book had reached a new all-time high of EUR 50.5 billion. This is an increase year-on-year of EUR 5.2 billion or 12%, which is 9% on an FX-adjusted basis. All divisions show sustained and disciplined growth over the last 12 months. And I wanted to highlight to you that around EUR 35 billion or about 70% of the order book of the HOCHTIEF order book relate to the Group's construction management, mining and services activities. This means that our risk profile continues to develop in a very positive manner as our activities have greater earnings and cash flow visibility. We have also very strong level of new orders. EUR 21.6 billion has been secured in the first 9 months of '19, an increase of EUR 2.4 billion year-over-year or 10% FX-adjusted. Looking further forward, the identified pipeline of projects to be tendered and/or awarded, which are companies in the U.S., Canada, Australia, Europe [have] identified is about EUR 530 million with a very substantial proportion coming from PPPs.

Let's move to Slide 9. We have a Asia Pacific division and the positive 9 months' results published last week by CIMIC. Net profit after tax, NPAT at CIMIC was up 2% year-over-year to AUD 573 million with stable revenues of AUD 10.7 billion and strong margins. Operating cash flow was robust at over [AUD 810] million and increased by AUD 500 million year-over-year pre-factoring. As I mentioned earlier, working capital variations have been influenced by seasonality in the 9-month period and over the last 2 years by the increasing use of alliance-type contracts and a strong mining growth at CIMIC. Net capital expenditure rose by AUD 117 million to over AUD 500 million due to increased investments to drive growth in mining and to deliver job-costed tunneling projects. CIMIC's financial position remains robust, ending 9 months '19 with a net cash position over AUD 800 million. Looking at the order book. The operating companies' work in hand grew by 10% year-on-year to AUD 35.3 billion, with total work in hand of AUD 37.2 billion. Mining and services account for almost AUD 20 billion or 55% of the OpCo total. And whilst maintaining bidding discipline, a total of AUD 13.1 billion of new work was secured year-to-date, an increase of 11% year-on-year. Meanwhile, a project pipeline worth around AUD 500 billion of tenders relevant to CIMIC has been identified for the remainder of '19 and beyond, including AUD 130 billion worth of PPP projects. And finally, at CIMIC, the company confirmed its '19, 2019 NPAT guidance of AUD 790 million to AUD 840 million subject to market conditions.

Americas. Look at Americas, which continues to deliver a very positive performance. Operational PBT increased by 8% year-on-year to EUR 242 million. Operational net profit was 12% higher. Margins remain solid while sales grew tremendously, up 16%, 10% FX-adjusted, to over EUR 11 billion. Cash generation remains very firm. Net cash flow from operating activities in 9 months '19 of EUR 261 million was EUR 50 million higher year-on-year. Over the last 12 months, the division has generated over EUR 400 million of net cash flow from operating activities. The Americas net cash position at the end of September '19 stood at 13 -- EUR 1.3 billion, up EUR 166 million year-on-year. And the order backlog rose to a new all-time high of EUR 23.6 billion. This is up by a EUR 3.8 billion, nearly 20% compared with September '18 with EUR 12.2 billion of new orders secured during the first 9 months '19, plus 12%. We reiterate our 2019 guidance for Americas, which targets an operational PBT improvement to approximately EUR 305 million to EUR 320 million.

Moving on to slide 11. We can look at Europe, which has continued to perform well during the first 9 months of '19. Operational PBT increased by EUR 4 million year-on-year to EUR 51 million driven by higher construction margins. The division's operational PBT remains solid. The sales performance in the reporting period reflects a continued disciplined bidding approach in construction and reduced real estate development activities.

HOCHTIEF Europe's net cash from operating activities improved significantly during the 9 months period by a EUR 60 million year-on-year with a solid contribution from construction and PBT businesses -- and stands at EUR 180 million during the last 12 months. If we adjust for the reduced input from real estate, net cash from operations at Europe is over EUR 100 million better year-on-year. At the end of September, HOCHTIEF Europe's balance sheet showed a strong net cash position of EUR 320 million, up almost EUR 230 million year-on-year.

New orders of around EUR 1.3 billion have been secured in the first 9 months of '19, which represents 1.3x the level of work done during the last 12 months. And the divisional order backlog at the end of September '19 stood at EUR 3.8 billion and has increased by EUR 200 million compared with December '18.

As for our other divisions we can confirm the guidance for Europe in '19 of operational PBT of EUR 65 million to EUR 70 million.

On the next slide, we can look at Abertis and its contribution. Total revenue was up by 4% on a comparable basis, plus it was significantly higher year-on-year in Spain, Chile and Brazil and stable in France. On a like-for-like basis, EBITDA was 7% higher at EUR 2.8 billion, whilst comparable net profit increased by 9% to EUR 853 million. Total net profit this year included the EUR 605 million of the Cellnex divestment. HOCHTIEF's 20% share of profits after holding costs and PPA was EUR 96 million compared with EUR 58 million for the 7 months we consolidated Abertis during '18. I would remind you that these contributions are included in nominal net profit for both '18 and '19, but in the case of operational net profit, only the result for the current year is included. Next we can take a look at the transaction announced around the sale we had this month, Abertis and the sovereign wealth fund GIC announced that they have reached an agreement to acquire a 70% stake in brownfield toll road company RCO, Red de Carreteras de Occidente, one of largest transport operators in Mexico. The company manages 876 kilometers of toll roads, and Abertis will fully consolidate RCO with a EUR 1.5 million investment for a 50.1% stake. This is a high quality asset with a good strategic fit and a source of long-term cash flow generation for Abertis, and we're very pleased to have achieved this significant strategic investment. Following this transaction, Standard and Poor's reaffirmed its BBB rating for Abertis with stable improvement.

Overall our investment in Abertis is significantly increasing our level of profit and cash generation and at the same time, enhancing our earnings visibility. In our 9-month results, Abertis' contribution represents over 20% of our nominal net profit and the dividend received accounted for over [15%] of our last 12 months free cash flow from operations.

Let's move and conclude with Slide 14. With 9 months growth of 29%, HOCHTIEF is well on track to deliver on our group operational net profit guidance for '19 of between EUR 640 million and EUR 680 million, which represents an increase of between 22% and 30%. Net cash from operations shows strong underlying growth year-on-year of EUR 460 million as we head into Q4, which has a very strong seasonal bias. Our diversification by PBT and geographies in developed markets combined with a group-wide mindset of disciplined bidding has allowed us to achieve further order book growth, which now stands at over EUR 50 million. About 70% of this backlog, around EUR 35 million, is in construction management, mining and services.

Of this EUR 35 million, more than half is construction management because of the cost [plus fee] nature of the business. Around a quarter is contract mining, which is long-term services type activity and the rest comes from the services itself, which focus around infrastructure maintenance and other type of services. This means that the majority of our business is in activities which provide the group with an attractive risk profile and long-term visibility, thus enhancing the quality and sustainability of our profit and cash flow. And this is complemented by the contribution from our 20% stake in Abertis. Looking further forward, our pipeline stands at EUR 530 million for the remainder of '19 and beyond with a PPP pipeline of EUR 230 billion.

In parallel, we will continue to pursue steady growth and capital allocation opportunities as they arise as part of our commitment to attractive shareholder remuneration. So thank you very much to everyone for listening. And now, I welcome your questions.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) We're going to take a question from Guillermo Fernández from Kepler.

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Guillermo Fernández-Gao Sánchez de Nieva, Kepler Cheuvreux, Research Division - Equity Research Analyst [2]

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It's actually a couple of them. One would be if you could elaborate a bit on the expected swing of the working capital in Q4. If you could explain between your expectations at CIMIC and ex CIMIC perimeter. And the second one would be on if you could comment on the (inaudible) we saw in Australia, commenting on the possibility of you pursuing some section on your contract mining activity. If I remember correctly, they refer to the possibility of including a partner there. That would be it.

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Michael Pinkney, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Head of Corporate Strategy [3]

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Guillermo, it's Mike here. Let me take your first question on the cash flow. As you know we don't provide guidance per se on cash flow, but obviously it's important to highlight that Q4 has been historically a very strong quarter, specifically and particularly due to working capital variation. We highlighted on our Q2 conference call, if you look in the last 4 years, we delivered a cash flow of about EUR 900 million on average per annum in the second half of the year before factoring. And that's -- most of that is actually concentrated in the fourth quarter. And so as Marcelino was saying, we expect a strong performance from working capital in the fourth quarter. And I think that you will see that across the group in Americas, Asia Pacific and Europe.

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [4]

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Okay. Thanks Mike, thank you, Guillermo. So just to complete a little bit about the swing in Q4, you know that most of the cash collection is coming in Q4. Mainly, if we look at the previous years, 4, 5 years, about 70% to 80% of the cash collection is coming in this -- to this period and we are very positive in the 3 regions, as Michael said. Asia-Pacific, Europe and Americas. There are many activities. You know that we're always aware as in my last sentence in my speech, exactly speaking about this. Now speaking of that, we're very focused on the -- how to look for M&A transactions and obviously, when we're looking at the management transactions for increasing value for our shareholders, this is an activity that we are continuously focused on, and in the market right now, there are a lot of opportunities and chances and we are very active on looking at this.

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Operator [5]

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(Operator Instructions) The next question comes from Christian Korth with HSBC.

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Christian Korth, HSBC, Research Division - Analyst [6]

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I have a couple of questions as well. The first one is actually on the RCO acquisition that Abertis recently did in Mexico. You said that it's a good strategic fit. I just want to ask if you could elaborate a little bit on this. I think there are no overlap to the current portfolio that they had. So is it basically the yield that you like? Is it the Mexican market that you like? As such, just trying to understand the idea behind it and why it's structurally a good fit? Secondly, does this deal in anyway limit the ability of Abertis to invest in greenfield projects in the future for some time? Just want to hear your opinion on this. And then maybe some thoughts about factoring. It looks like you have basically stopped to do factoring in the third quarter. Is that a temporary thing? Is that a permanent thing? Or we may be even reduce the current level of factoring that you have right now going forward?

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Michael Pinkney, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Head of Corporate Strategy [7]

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Thank you, Christian. Just factoring for the second question. The factoring is not a question of we're using or not using factoring. When we started factoring and then mainly we started factoring massively around 3 years ago in Australia. We really just started from scratch. And then if the company is a large company like CIMIC group and with new companies like UGL, et cetera, you start factorizing and then you increase. It's impossible not to increase your growth. You grow, you grow, you grow, up to the moment that you get more or less what is their level -- the standard level of factoring and then the factoring shouldn't be something that we're using for increasing or decreasing. It should be more or less a company that the growth or the decrease depending on the [amounts] of the revenue, meaning that you are stable right now and the company continues being stable. If the company's payment continues being the same, well usually you have -- you should have some stability on the factoring more or less at the same level that you're keeping right now. And that's why it's so important. On the other hand, through the last 2 years when we started realizing -- started a lot of type of contracts, alliance-type contracts in Australia, et cetera. It is true that the cash incoming from this new [contract and profile] is a little bit different and then obviously what is in this, like actual factoring, you could align more the cost and revenues and understand the business. But when you reach, let's say, the standard level in theory, the move shouldn't be an important one. It should be a move that is more or less accompanying the valuation of this. Second or third question in regard of importance of RCO acquisition. Well, you know that in our strategy and the strategy that we started the [remainder] of this year, we had some targets. One of the targets was to reuse costs and we did it, all the synergies, et cetera. You know this very well but, at the same time, we wanted to keep the company stable and one of the factors was to grow to replace the cash flows that were going to end from several of the Spanish toll roads. And one of the purposes of this transaction, the reason for this transaction, is supporting us, let's say to replace in a sensitive manner this, and at the same time, it's giving to us long life for the overall life of the Abertis concessions. This [Abertis] positions 23 years of remaining concessions and can extend the life of Abertis' portfolio for more than 1 year, or 2 years depending on the work that you are considering. That's why we consider that being in a stable and a mature concession it's given to us a lot of stability. Nothing to do or nothing opposite because you realize that, when looking at the rating, the Standard & Poor's rating was confirming that after such a transaction, the rating was within [stable outlook] . It doesn't mean then that you have a similar rating that this can influence our look at the greenfield projects that will come in the future. No, no, we continue with the factoring in parallel and the only thing that obviously is limiting this is the market. If in the market you have chances, we will try to take our chances, and if the chances are coming a little bit by little, we will align ourselves to the market pace and that's why we consider this position is so good because it's giving to us this tranquility and this hopefully will continue in our strategy.

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Operator [8]

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We will now take the next question from Marcin Wojtal from Bank of America.

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Marcin Karol Wojtal, BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division - Analyst [9]

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So first can you comment on your net operating CapEx, which is running about EUR 100 million per quarter? Should we expect CapEx to eventually come down? Or this is a level that should be, let's say, sustainable for the next few quarters? And question number 2, it's on the financial structure. You have a net cash position in all of the operating units, Americas, CIMIC and Europe, but then you have a net debt position in the headquarters. So I'm just wondering will there be -- would it be sensible at some point to perhaps reduce a little bit that debt position in the headquarters to reduce the negative carry that you have? Or you want to keep it as it is over the medium term?

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [10]

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Okay. Then to the same questions, net operating [and] CapEx expectations. As you realize that the mining activities have been growing in the last 2 or 3 years significantly. And because the only thing that's showing is that we are adapting our CapEx to this growth. If the mining sector continues being successful and will continue being successful in getting new contracts, obviously, we need to continue adapting the CapEx needs to that. Theoretically speaking, you realize that the CapEx growth is very well in line with the revenues growth and the EBITDA growth, et cetera. And that is stabilized in the company very much. We have long-term contracts in mining. The last one that I said in my speech was the Curragh mine, which is in Queensland, which is a very important one, it's a continuation. We're getting new contracts also and every time when you look at how we are managing the machinery and the equipment and we believe that the CapEx will stay consistent. Because of that, maybe there will be some variations in CapEx but not a lowering, but keeping it stable or increasing a little bit. The mine can continue giving to us opportunities for that. This is the first part of the question. Second part of the question, this is more strategic than anything as we have a very decentralized model, meaning that it is very important for us that the managers, they know how to deal with the cash, and important to understand the importance of the cash. They need to feel it and for feeling it, they need to be responsible for that. That's why we are using this decentralized model. It's not only a question of matching numbers, which is clear, but it's a question of the strategy and the risk management approach. And we want to have our managers be more than operational guys but having this kind of financial approach to every project.

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Operator [11]

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We will now take the next question from Bruno (inaudible) from CaixaBank.

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Unidentified Analyst, [12]

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Just following up on the previous question about the capital structure. Just wanted to have a little bit more feeling about what do you believe is the level of net cash that you consider as a limit for the operating units? And also at the group level of HOCHTIEF without any further consideration in terms of M&A whatsoever.

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [13]

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Well, this is not math. You know this very well. If you look at the project itself as a company, and you were in charge of such a company, you should be able to manage the company cash flows without taking into account this [report] of your parent company for having some credits and the same time, it's reducing your cash flow costs and money coming in a way that finally you have -- you get the final profit and the final -- from this final profit, this cash, you can deliver to the group, and this should be in an [understandable] way. That's just for one contract, so obviously our company is not one contract. There's plenty of contracts, and in the different groups and approaches where you have faced the need of keeping some buffer because obviously you know that there is some flexibility. What we are doing right now is just always monitoring very well and then every move -- important move in operations that they have to do is very well monitored and controlled by the Corporate Finance department. Meaning that this is well-connected and the Corporate Finance always is looking at what is the most efficient moment in every moment depending on the market conditions. For instance, with the launch right now and maybe Peter can give to you a little more clarity. In August, at the end of August, Peter started as our CFO as you know at the end of August because we considered it was a good moment for having this financed safely and obviously cheaper.

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Peter-Wilhelm Sassenfeld, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - CFO & Member of the Executive Board [14]

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Yes, thank you Marcelino. Bruno, we launched at the end of September I think in a very good capital market window EUR 750 million rated bonds, that was EUR 500 million with an 8-year of maturity and EUR 250 million with a 12-year maturity for an average coupon of 0.75% for the EUR 750 million. So you will certainly agree with me that we got maybe one of the lowest points of the year yield-wise for our benefit. And we just take the opportunity because the environment at the moment is very beneficial for the companies in order to refinance our sales here.

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Unidentified Analyst, [15]

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If I might just very quickly, would you say that you are currently at the operating level at a comfortable or at a stable level of net cash versus sales for instance? And that we should from this point on --

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [16]

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Yes, more than comfortable. That's why we're trying to optimize and you realize what Peter is telling you about HOCHTIEF has been done also in CIMIC, exactly the same way [just a month ago] just trying to optimize the financial resources. And then when something is provoking such a move, we have to act and then just looking at how to optimize. In fact, if you look at the financial costs because of this move or this philosophy or way of doing, they are going down significantly or they have been going down significantly the last 2 years.

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Unidentified Analyst, [17]

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So you're ready to M&A or continue to raise dividend significantly.

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Peter-Wilhelm Sassenfeld, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - CFO & Member of the Executive Board [18]

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You know this is usually my last sentence. I want to repeat my last sentence. Please my last sentence is a standard for me but it's important that we continue to consistently grow in capital cash opportunities as they arise as part of our commitment to deliver satisfactory shareholder return. If we continue let's say to look for that, it is because we're under conditions to do it, otherwise it's not possible.

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Operator [19]

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(Operator Instructions) We'll now take a follow-up question from Marcin Wojtal from Bank of America.

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Marcin Karol Wojtal, BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division - Analyst [20]

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Yes. I was just wondering can you comment on the use of reverse factoring or supply chain financing by HOCHTIEF. I don't know if you can maybe disclose the balance and has that increased in the first 9 months?

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Michael Pinkney, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Head of Corporate Strategy [21]

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Marcin, it's Mike here. So I mean basically, there's very little impact there. The liabilities on the balance sheet and the original liability is not modified so there's no impact on the group in terms of cash flow basically other than we stressed in our relationship with our suppliers. So that's basically relatively a second piece of the broader picture.

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Operator [22]

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We'll now take the next question from Christian Korth with HSBC.

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Christian Korth, HSBC, Research Division - Analyst [23]

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I have one follow up. On the last conference call, we briefly discussed the PPA level at Abertis and you said EUR 460 million is your current assumption for 100% pre-level of the company. Is that still valid or did that in any way change in the meantime?

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [24]

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That's the strategy and then obviously, we'll continue on the strategy. Yes, it was EUR 450 million -- no, EUR 460 million.

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Peter-Wilhelm Sassenfeld, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - CFO & Member of the Executive Board [25]

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That's unchanged.

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Operator [26]

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I'll now turn the call back over to the host for any additional or closing remarks.

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Marcelino Fernandez Verdes, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Chairman of the Executive Board & CEO [27]

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Well, thank you very much for all of you. And then we will see or we will have the chance of talking to you again, when we present the year-end results in a few months. Thank you.

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Michael Pinkney, HOCHTIEF Aktiengesellschaft - Head of Corporate Strategy [28]

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Thanks, operator.

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Operator [29]

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Thank you. That will conclude today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.