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Edited Transcript of HUB.AX earnings conference call or presentation 23-Feb-21 12:30am GMT

·45 min read

Half Year 2021 Hub24 Ltd Earnings Call Feb 23, 2021 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Hub24 Ltd earnings conference call or presentation Tuesday, February 23, 2021 at 12:30:00am GMT TEXT version of Transcript ================================================================================ Corporate Participants ================================================================================ * Andrew Alcock HUB24 Limited - MD & Director * Kitrina Shanahan HUB24 Limited - CFO ================================================================================ Conference Call Participants ================================================================================ * Aashita Bharadwaj * Brendan Carrig Macquarie Research - Research Analyst * James Bisinella Shaw and Partners Limited, Research Division - Analyst * Nicolas Burgess Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst * Simon Fitzgerald Evans & Partners Pty. Ltd., Research Division - Executive Director of Diversified Financials * Siraj Ahmed Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate ================================================================================ Presentation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today for the half year results presentation for financial year '21. My name is Andrew Alcock. I'm the Managing Director of HUB24. And with me today is Kitrina Shanahan, our CFO, who will help me through the presentation. At HUB24, we're about making a difference in our customers' lives by connecting them to innovative solutions that is about creating better outcomes for them. Following the divestment of our Paragem business to Easton, which we'll talk about shortly, and the repositioning of our technology businesses, HUBconnect, you can see the 2 go-forward brands there on that slide, we're absolutely committed to making that difference and continue to innovate in the marketplace. Today, we're proud to talk to you as Australia's best overall platform, which was announced by Investment Trends this week, where we moved up from second place into first place. The key messages for today's presentation is really about talking about the growth that we've had continuing in our business. And as you can see from the charts there, we have the 5-year net flow CAGR of 31%, and you can see our average monthly net flows increased there on the left-hand side chart. On the right-hand side, you can see our FUA balance growth over the last 5 years. And for the first time, we included Portfolio Administration and Reporting Service FUA as a result of our acquisition of that business from Ord Minnett. That's the yellow part on the right-hand side of that chart. But that 5-year CAGR, again, is 56%. What we're saying is we're Australia's best platform. We've got consistent performance in our growth in net flows and FUA. I'd like to talk to you about that and talk about how we're positioned for more scale and growth. We had record net flows for the half. We have a very strong pipeline and continued momentum moving ahead with the launch shortly of new institutional private labels for companies such as IOOF and ClearView. We're finalizing the strategic transactions that we announced to the market in October, and that will help us enter new segments in the marketplace as well. We undertook some disciplined expense management in the first half of FY '21. As we all know, the environment was difficult. We weren't sure what was happening at a macro level. And so we undertook a disciplined expense management, which helped us offset the low interest rate environment also arising as a result of economic uncertainty and the pandemic. The result of that is we do have an EBITDA increase. We've focused on shareholder results in a difficult environment. But our results and our growth during that environment are telling us it's time to prepare for even more growth as we move forward. Some highlights for the business in first half '21. Our financial results highlights. Our Platform revenue was up 25% to $43.8 million. The Platform underlying EBITDA is also up about 25%, 26% at $17.4 million. Our underlying EBITDA margin has increased in the half from 37.9% last half to 39.7% this half even in a difficult environment with some headwinds on those interest rates. And our underlying platform NPAT is up 39% to $7.5 million. All healthy increases in what you could argue has been a challenging environment for all businesses in the country. As at 1/31 -- as at 31 December, our total FUA is up 95% to $31.3 billion. Now that includes Platform FUA, a historical business of $22 billion, and includes the noncustody or the Portfolio Administration and Reporting Service FUA that we purchased from Ord Minnett last year. The total FUA now has increased to $33 billion, with Platform FUA up $2 billion to $24 billion since we announced the February result in our quarterly. We're very pleased also today to announce a $0.045 dividend per share for the first half, which is fully franked and delighted to be able to provide that to shareholders. Our business continues to win awards and succeed. And not only are we talking to you today about Australia's best overall platform. For the fifth year running, we've won the award for Managed Accounts Solution by having the best managed counter functionality in Australia also from Investment Trends. We're very proud to win that award that many times. It is about exceeding in a growing market segment where we're absolutely committed to continuing to lead. In that same survey, HUB24 was ranked in the top 2 for 30 out of 44 practice subcategories. And in the Wealth Insights survey, we're also first equal for the platform services. In terms of summing up, other highlights. As I said, we have record net inflows. They were at $3.1 billion for the first half of FY '21. And our adviser numbers are up 24% on the prior corresponding period to 2,280. We've also achieved some key milestones in our growth strategy with the finalization of the strategic transactions we announced in October. The acquisition of Ord Minnett's PARS has been completed. The team is now onboarded as part of the HUB24 team. The Easton proportional offer closed last night. I'll have more to talk about that shortly. And the approvals required for the Scheme of Arrangement for Xplore have also been approved, and we're heading towards completion. We also were successful in our cap raising and the ANZ debt facility being there that provide us further flexibility for our growth. Some great highlights for the business for the year. Moving on, we continue to grow our FUA and our market share. And based on the most recent data available as at 30 September 2019 from Strategic Insights, we've increased our position in the market up to ninth place from 11th place in terms of FUA. So whilst we're at ninth place, we're #2, and we've maintained #2, in terms of annual net inflows. So the chart on the left-hand side shows you the ratio of our growth compared to our current market share. In other words, we're punching above our weight considerably, being in second place for new business, albeit in ninth place for market share at the moment. Our platform FUA CAGR on the right-hand side, for the last 2 years, is 48%. We've shown you the last 2 years figures there. The Platform FUA flows and also the Portfolio Administration and Reporting Service FUA are showing the growth that we've had and the continued increase in market share. I'll hand over to Kitrina, who will now talk through our financial results. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [2] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Andrew. So to run you through, this slide is on the group financial results. And so the group operating revenue is up 18% to $62.1 million. Direct expenses are up 4% to $26 million on the first half '20. And our operating expenses are up 22% on first half '20 to $20 million, however, held broadly flat to the 30th of June second half '20 result. The combination of this leading to an underlying EBITDA of $16.4 million, up $4.7 million and 41% on first half '20. And an underlying EBITDA margin of 26% compared to 22% in first half '20. Statutory NPAT is $6.1 million, held broadly flat to the prior half, to first half '20. And underlying NPAT is $7.5 million, up 39% on the first half '20. On the right-hand side, you can see the graphs that show the operating revenue and the underlying EBITDA, with the Platform segment driving the increases in the revenue and the underlying EBITDA. I'll talk more about on the later slides. IT Services on the bottom graph at the right -- on the right-hand side. The underlying EBITDA increased $1.5 million from increased revenue from new clients in the pipeline and lower costs, with the technology focus being on the Platform. Again, I'll talk through that in more detail as we get to those pages. Turning to the next page, we have the Platform segment results. So as previously mentioned, the strong net flows of $3.1 billion this half has seen the FUA growth combined with the market movement of $1.7 billion. So FUA is up 25% on the first half '20, driving the revenue of $43.8 million, up 25% on the first half '20. Direct costs for the Platform segment are $10.8 million, an increase of 18% on first half '20 with a gross profit margin of 75%, up 1% on the first half '20. Operating expenses have increased to $15.6 million from the first half '20, however, again, held broadly flat to the second half '20 of $15 million. On the right-hand side, we have the Platform Funds Under Administration showing the platform FUA of $22 billion and the breakout of the net flows of $3.1 billion growing 24% on the prior period and a market movement of 1.7. The average monthly net flows for the 6 months has been just above $500 million compared to $400 million for the full year '20. There've been no transitions this half. The net flows and the average monthly net inflows is continued momentum in the portfolio driving the growth. Moving to the Platform revenue slide. Platform revenue increased 25% to $43.8 million. On the right-hand side, you can see the makeup of the various fees driving the increase, with the net flows on FUA leading to a $3.1 million increase in fees. And then in other fees, we have the trading and the cash. Trading volumes have been high, with the average daily trading higher this half offset slightly by the low interest rate margin -- and the cash margin. On the bottom-right graph, you can see the Platform revenue margin has gone from 47 bps in the second half last year to 44 bps this half. Portfolio administration fees are slightly down, with the average account balances continuing to grow and the Fed rate cuts reducing margins. However, revenue continuing to grow off the back of the higher FUA and the average balances. And the other fees is down, largely again to do with the cash rate and the low interest rate environment. Moving to the next slide. So we have the summary for the Platform segment on this slide. As demonstrated in the graph on the top left-hand corner, the gap between the Platform revenue and the expenses remained strong despite the low interest rate environment. Disciplined cost management this half has been maintained, holding the OpEx flat to the second half '20 levels. Direct expenses have continued to grow in line with the volume increases. However, the strong net flow momentum and the confidence in the platform, we do expect to see operating expenses increase for technology and operations in the second half. The underlying EBITDA margin for the Platform segment is 40% this half, up from 38% in the second half of last year and 39% in the first half of last year. Moving to the operating expenses. We have a breakout here of the first half '20 going into second half '20 and first half '21. So as called out, the operating expenses for the total group have been held flat at $20 million compared to the $19.9 million in the second half last year and then up from the $16.4 million in the first half of last year, largely being employment costs related to technology and operations and growing the size of the business. The head count this half has increased to 281, with the increase being in direct expenses and 12 additional FTE onboarding into HUB24 following the acquisition of the Ord Minnett portfolio. And then moving to the final financial slide, the underlying NPAT -- or the underlying EBITDA to underlying NPAT -- statutory NPAT. So we have a walk in the graph at the bottom and the one-off items called out at the top. So underlying EBITDA of $16.4 million this half walking down to an underlying NPAT of $7.5 million, with share-based payments increasing up to $3 million, which is largely to do with the special LTI in 2018 and recognizing the payroll tax for the special LTI issued this half. Depreciation and amortization have been held broadly flat to last half, leading to an underlying EBITDA -- NPAT, sorry, of $7.5 million. On the right-hand side, during the walk from underlying NPAT to statutory NPAT, we have the Agility acquisition. We've -- with the new deed of amendment for the share sale for Agility, we have reversed the fair value gain of $1.6 million, and this has been offset by an increase of share-based expense payments of $1.1 million. The difference of $500 million is expected to be booked in the second half '20. Transaction and due diligence costs of $1.7 million related to the strategic transactions that we announced at the end of October has been with statutory NPAT walk-down to $6.1 million. And with that, I'll hand back to Andrew. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Kitrina. In summary, we've had a pretty pleasing result with accelerating growth, increasing our net flows to record levels and delivering good, positive outcomes in all our financial measures in the context of a challenged or difficult environment. As a business, we're positioned well to move forward. And as such, I'd like to take a deeper look at the strategic transactions we have underway that we announced to the market in October and providing updates along the way. The first one of those is the acquisition of Xplore Wealth by Scheme of Arrangement. And Xplore has a total FUA of $16.6 billion as at 31 December, and the acquisition is for $60 million. All necessary approvals have now been received from shareholders, optionholders and the Federal court. And completion is on track for the 2nd of March, which is next week. Some of the next steps underway there, we are engaging with the Xplore team and starting to think about the transition to HUB24. We're about to put in place an interim operating model to move forward with that business and certainly engaging with Xplore customers moving ahead as well. Our approach to integration -- or our lens for integration is really about looking for growth opportunities and leveraging the enhanced capabilities of the group across both sets of clients as our lens to think about how we integrate the businesses, absolutely being conscious of the fact that the capability that comes with Xplore and the capability that comes with HUB24 will resonate with our individual client base, and there's opportunities there for those clients and for the group moving forward. The Ord Minnett acquisition of PARS, or Portfolio Administration and Reporting Service, completed last year. They had $9.1 billion of FUA and an acquisition price of $10.5 million. As we said, the transaction is completed. The team are onboarded. There's a little bit of work to do, some system separation from Ord Minnett's technology systems. And we also, as a part of that, intend to look at future product development to enhance that offering to the market in combination with the Portfolio Admin and Reporting Service. And we'll pick up with Xplore, bringing those together and investing in that with confidence given the size of the business and intending to be the market leader in that particular segment and grow that market share. Finally, the Easton -- investment of up to 40% in Easton. We can tell you that we've landed with about 31%, with the offer having closed last night. So the offer closed on the 22nd of February. And in that mix of transactions, we also completed the divestment of our licensing business, Paragem, to Easton. And the Paragem team has transferred over to Easton. Moving ahead, we're going to be looking at the market opportunities that come about though the technology and partnership -- technology partnership and distribution agreements that we have with Easton. And we'll also be looking to finalize our second new director recommendation for Easton as a result of our shareholding in that business. So what does this mean? Our business profile, after the completion of Xplore, will position us as the leading provider of integrated platform, data and technology services in Australia. We'll have a total FUA of $48 billion. That includes custodial and noncustodial FUA, including the current HUB24 FUA and numbers for Xplore at 31/12. So looking at it from a platform point of view, that's $33 billion in platform for HUB24, which we are the market-leading platform, #1 overall, managed portfolio solution being the best. We've got broad choice for an innovative capability that unlocks value for clients. We intend to keep doing that with Xplore and HUB24 together moving forward. Our technology solutions and services business will see us being a market leader with noncustodial admin or portfolio and reporting service admin, around about $15 billion of FUA. That includes the Ord Minnett and Xplore portion of that and other services for data integration and technology solutions for stock brokers, licensees, advisers and other market participants. As a result of these transactions, we are positioning HUB24 for ongoing success. We're strengthening our market leadership as a specialist platform provider. We're going to have capabilities behind that wealth client segment. We've got some new key strategic relationships with new clients. We're certainly extending our single view of wealth capabilities, leveraging noncustodial reporting services and the existing HUBconnect capability we have. We're creating a leadership position in that PARS of solution and a significant revenue and scale to support ongoing investment in that segment to secure even further growth. Of course, we're also investing in the evolution and enablement of low-cost financial advise, which is very important for this industry and very important for our customer base in Australia who are looking to secure their future for retirement. The future is very bright with some key trends being very promising opportunities for us moving ahead. There's increasing demand for managed portfolio solutions at which we are the market leader, and there is an ongoing shift to specialty platforms. Some are calling it Wexit, the world's exit from the major institution. That is an opportunity for us to capitalize on and keep growing. There is growth in the high net worth affluent client segment. Hence, our acquisition of Xplore is helping us target more upside in that segment as well. And of course, in Australia, there's expected to be increasing retirement savings as the population thinks about retirement and we move into that cycle with the aging population and the need to be self-funded in retirement. Representing opportunities for us to innovate, deliver our services and come up with new products as well. The cost of licensing functions is continuing to rise, and the cost of advice is increasing. Hence, our investment in technology to help with that and the partnership with Easton. And the evolution of adviser licensee models, thinking about technology and thinking about hybrid and direct advice models as well, are key trends that are presenting opportunities for us to grow and invest in growth and to continue leading change in this industry. We're focused on maximizing the opportunities and positioning for further growth. It's about us consolidating our market-leading platform position and expanding into new segments. So we intend to continue growing platform market share by leveraging the current relationships we have and securing new clients and continuing to invest in platform capability and customer service excellence and also consolidating our managed portfolio market leadership position again through continued investment, but also through delivering client and adviser benefits. And we're shortly about to launch our managed portfolio academy for advisers to the marketplace as well. We'll be expanding our offer and targeting new segments by investing in new product solutions for high net worth and the PARS solution that I've already talked about. And of course, we're going to, on the technology front, continue to collaborate with the industry with licensees and advisers to deliver solutions that solve key advice delivery challenges that make it easier to look after clients, that actually make it easier to use HUB24 and really bring about change for the future of this industry. So we're building integrated data and technology solutions, leveraging some artificial intelligence and machine learning. And we're also continuing to work on delivering an integrated view of wealth through seamless transaction reporting capability across both our platform and our PARS services as well moving forward. In summary, what does it mean moving forward for HUB24? We absolutely intend to keep creating customer and shareholder value. We expect to continue to grow our market share and our FUA. We will be commencing the integration of the acquisitions and leveraging the new capabilities that those acquisitions bring us as we transition to our future business model, positioning HUB24 for success through innovation and ongoing customer service excellence and growing financial results continually moving forward as well. As a result of this, we're pleased to increase our Platform FUA guidance for FY '22, which was at $28 billion to $32 billion. We're increasing it to $43 billion to $49 billion at the end of FY '22. And that includes the Xplore business also in that set of numbers there. So all in all, if you unpack that, that represents a level of confidence in the HUB24 business with about a $5 billion to $6 billion increase in our guidance for FUA in that business, up from when we made that statement in August last year. Very pleased to be able to say that our growth is accelerating and we're very confident that we have to revise that number even though it was only realistic to the market in August. So we are positioning ourselves as a leader of -- a leading provider of integrated platform, data technology services. We're very excited to have been awarded Australia's best overall platform. And we're absolutely committed to creating value for shareholders and customers moving ahead as we execute on our strategy. I'll now hand over for some questions. ================================================================================ Questions and Answers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Operator Instructions) Our first question is from Siraj Ahmed of Citi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [2] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few questions for me. First, just on the start to second half '21. Given the FUA update, it seems like a pretty strong start. Can you just comment on that? I mean it looks like FUA is at $1.5 billion or something, which is including the last quarter over -- third quarter overall last year. And Andrew, on the FY '22 upgraded guidance, how do you think about phasing in FY '21 versus '22? And would it be fair to assume that the growth is not really coming from Xplore given that you'll be integrating it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I might tackle that first. So I don't -- we don't have a very clear line in terms of hearing your question. But in terms of the FUA guidance, look, we've taken a blended approach. We're confident of the growth prospects of HUB24. We get to own or put our arms around the Xplore business so we do have a conservative number in there for Xplore. So if that holds true, that we can actually increase that, we'll do that moving down the track. We actually like to always outperform this guidance. But largely, we've based the number on the business that we know well, which is the business we're operating today, and included a conservative number for Xplore in there. Can you repeat the other question at the start? It was a little bit muffled, Siraj, sorry. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [4] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Just sort of start for second half '21. It looks like the net flows today is around $1.5 billion. It seems pretty strong. Can you just give us some color on that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [5] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, okay. The flows for the second half have been very pleasing. Certainly, there's a bit of market movement in there. But the seasonality we normally experience in the business has sort of been thrown out the window this year. Normally, we have a dipped December, January, February. We've had very strong January, and February is still looking very strong. So results so far are very pleasing. We haven't seen the normal seasonal dip. And that, I hope, sets us up for even for strong flows as we move toward the end of the financial year, where traditionally you do have increasing flows. So you are correct. There's been a positive start to the second half. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [6] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Andrew, just on that. So for the FY '22 guidance, if you think about phasing end of June '21 versus June '22, it sounds like you're still assuming the flows will be -- I mean, you're not looking at peak flows in FY '21. It'll be -- FY '22 will be pretty strong. Is that the way you're thinking about it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [7] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We're looking at strong flows for both '21 and '22, absolutely. So we're expecting, Siraj, that the market conditions -- given what's happened during COVID, the market conditions and Wexit and some of the pipeline, we're expecting growth to continue. As we said, we've got a target here, but we always like to overshoot it. But there's a target there that reflects our confidence. But as I said, we -- our confidence has changed from 6 months ago. We've increased it from 6 months ago. So we'll keep pedaling hard for our shareholders and doing the best we can. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [8] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's great. Just one more, Andrew. So on the -- just thinking about Platform EBITDA margins, right? Very good leverage this half. And -- but you have stepped up hiring towards the end of the half. How do you think about margins, both in the short term in the second half? Do we still expect leverage half-on-half? And also thinking here FY '22 given this large opportunity that you see. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [9] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj, I'll take that one. So yes, we're at 44 bps at the moment. We do expect there to continue to be some margin pressure. The last RBA rate cut was in November. So we will see a full 6 months of that roll through in the second half. And then we expect the margin to sort of stabilize from the second half levels going forward depending on what happens with the low interest rate environment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [10] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And/or the mix of book. But the margin impact is largely -- the interest rate environment, there's a little bit in that in terms of higher balances and so forth. But it's not because revised terms of business. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [11] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina, I was actually asking about EBITDA margins, right, on the costs on the OpEx side. Do we expect similar trends on that or... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [12] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. So sorry -- so I thought you were talking about the 44 bps. The -- we are -- at flags, we are going to be investing in the second half to make sure that we're scaled up for the momentum that the business is seeing. And so we will -- that will take some time for the revenue to have a full year run rate. And again, in the second half, we will do the phasing. So there will be a gradual phasing of this coming in, but you won't necessarily see the corresponding full year run rate of the revenue until next year. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [13] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So just clarifying, you're seeing some operating deleverage in the second half, but that should come through next half -- next year when the revenue comes in. Is that the right way to think about it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [14] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Correct. Correct. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [15] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The head count investment for this half is relatively a small number in total for the half because it's a staged investment. And so we just thought outlining that we won't be holding the expenses flat as have -- we need to invest for the growth. The growth has been above expectation. But there's not a large amount of money in terms of coming through and hopefully, continuing growth in terms of revenue will continue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [16] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our next question is from Simon Fitzgerald of Evans & Partners. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Fitzgerald, Evans & Partners Pty. Ltd., Research Division - Executive Director of Diversified Financials [17] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll just ask 3 here. The first one relates to a comment in the analyst pack that this -- a mention of a new special LTI that was issued in the first half '21. I recall the previous special LTI in 2018 was a result of salary limits or, at least, came with salary limits and was purely FUA-based in terms of its hurdles. Just wondering if you could talk about this new grant in terms of its -- any sort of hurdles and what the FUA targets might be if that's the targets that I'm thinking about. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [18] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure. I can -- and outline -- referring you to the AGM notice of meeting, the full details were in there. This target is -- sorry, this LTI is about a 5-year performance period intending to lock in executives or provide a retention or reward mechanism for executives over a 5-year period. It does involve the extension of notice periods from executives to a 12-month notice period to also create retention and hopefully, keep the team together and protect shareholders from a market where there will be competition for good resources moving forward. And it also involves FUA targets ranging from $50 billion to $60 billion, which can be adjusted and will be adjusted based on the acquisitions that we've made. So pre-acquisition, there was FUA targets between $50 billion and $70 billion over that 5-year period, with the need for a 5-year performance period and exchanging that for longer notice periods for executives. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Fitzgerald, Evans & Partners Pty. Ltd., Research Division - Executive Director of Diversified Financials [19] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, very clear. The second question relates to the IOOF private label agreement. I'm just trying to think about how we should think about this agreement a little bit further just in terms of, is this like a number of private-label deals that IOOF look to put in place? Or is there something more we should think about here just given the sort of change in relationship with their previous provider, Panorama? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [20] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, we can't speak on behalf of IOOF apart from what's in the marketplace. And they have decided to appoint HUB24 as a strategic partner moving ahead. It is their product. It's a private label. So they will be operating as a product issuer. I'm not sure that they'll -- that seems to be a considerable investment and focus on running that to work if they're going to the trouble of actually being the trustee and the issuer. So look, from that perspective, I think IOOF want to be an open architecture business. Renato talks about it all the time. And HUB24 is now able to participate in that. And I think it's a shift from their existing relationships to a go-forward platform that provides great utility for adviser and customers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Fitzgerald, Evans & Partners Pty. Ltd., Research Division - Executive Director of Diversified Financials [21] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure. And just the final question in regards to Xplore. This sort of comes off the first question that was asked. But if I look at the Hub business in terms of its growth over that 6-month profile from when we first talked about those, the strategic transactions in the release, versus where the Xplore business has grown, can you just talk about -- a little bit about the growth between the 2 businesses? I mean Xplore has obviously got a very high -- or high institutional component, but it does look a slower-growing business in terms of FUA. I'm just wondering if you have any comments in regards to that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [22] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look, I don't -- I can't comment on Xplore. That's for their Board and for them to comment on. And in a week's time, we'll, hopefully -- sorry, in a week's time, we'll be taking the reins of that business. Look, you can see by unpacking the information that's released to market at September. I think Xplore was at 14 -- sorry? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [23] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $16 billion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [24] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- $16 billion -- $16.5 billion. And if you unpack that -- unpack some of the pieces there, you can see that the business is growing slightly, but it's not growing in the trajectory of HUB24. Our acquisition is because of the key clients there and what we think we can take to those clients to get enhanced growth from that business and the capability we can leverage here. But until we have our arms around the business, I'm not really able to talk about that. Moving forward, though, those products and services will blend. So we will be talking about it as a combined entity over time as we integrate and so the distinction will blur in any event. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simon Fitzgerald, Evans & Partners Pty. Ltd., Research Division - Executive Director of Diversified Financials [25] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And just one final question, which comes off from that. Are you thinking about sort of enhancing your disclosures in any way in terms of maybe revenue from noncustodial services versus custody? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [26] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Absolutely. Once we get onboard with these acquisitions, we'll certainly be looking at how we disclose, how we report in our segments. We're still to do that. We don't own Xplore yet. And so for this half, we've gone with our traditional method. But as a business, we'll be looking at what's the right way to disclose and report that, and I think you'll see that sort of breakout. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [27] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our next question is from James Bisinella of Shaw and Partners. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Bisinella, Shaw and Partners Limited, Research Division - Analyst [28] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Firstly, congrats to you and the team on your results. So just in terms of that updated FUA number in the middle of Feb of $24 billion, does any of that $2 billion increase come from the ClearView wealth transition of $1 billion that's expected over the second half? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [29] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. At this stage, no. The ClearView transition will come in, in a large lump or a single transaction over the weekend. And the project is tracking well. It's still on track to be done in the second half. So whilst ClearView are writing new business with Hub through the white labels they've launched, none of that is the transition. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- James Bisinella, Shaw and Partners Limited, Research Division - Analyst [30] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Great. And just one more for me just around the competitive landscape. Just wondering how you're seeing that generally speaking and sort of whether customers are demanding sharper pricing as a result of some of your competitors sort of sharpening their admin fees, especially across their back book. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [31] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look, I think that's a response to competitive tension that others have to deal with, not ourselves. We've not had a back book issue. We've not had to respond to competitive pricing. If anything, I think pricing has settled down. We've typically been a price leader in the marketplace. And even those institutions who have adjusted pricing haven't changed their outcomes in terms of flows. I think advisers are thinking about value as much as about price and what you get for price. We're not seeing a lot of pressure there. Certainly, when you're talking about large opportunities, let's say, like a private label for an institution like IOOF, you're going to have a sharp rate card. But you also have better cost profiles for that sort of volume of business. So generally speaking, competition in the market isn't creating price pressure that we are experiencing to any large extent today in effect, and you can see that from our flows being up. In a marketplace which should have had headwinds and challenges because of COVID and so forth, we've had record flows above what we would have budgeted at the start of the year ignoring COVID. So the results speak for themselves at this point in time, and we're not seeing that price pressure. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [32] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Operator Instructions) Our next question is from Brendan Carrig of Macquarie. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brendan Carrig, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [33] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just a quick follow-up maybe on Xplore. Andrew, you made comments about some of those clients that are there that you wanted to have access to. Have you had the opportunity to have any discussions with those clients? Or do you have to sort of wait until the completion before you can sort of sit down with them and talk about the approach going forward? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [34] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look, certainly, we did -- as part of our announcement of the scheme in the first place, we did indicate this focus of the 2 key large clients. And so we have spoken to those. We've actually met with a couple of client groups several times. We've been involved in telephone hookups with Xplore management and large clients to start to talk about who we are and what we're about. So yes, we've been engaging. And so far, those engagements have been very positive. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brendan Carrig, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [35] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. Excellent. And then most of my other ones are covered. But maybe just on CapEx. Obviously, there's been sort of seasonality in terms of the Platform CapEx historically with more of a skew to the second half. Is this something that we should -- this trend is something we should expect going forward? Or will some of the CapEx budget be allocated more towards the new acquisitions? So will this absorb some of the CapEx budget? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [36] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll take that one, Brendan. So the acquisitions, when we did the announcement back in October, we announced that there would be $10 million for implementation costs related to all the strategic transactions. So from a BAU perspective, we're still expecting continued focus on the platform. And so you can expect the trend on the depreciation and amortization and the amount of spend for capitalization to continue. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brendan Carrig, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [37] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. That's clear. And then just the last one, maybe just following on from Simon's question on IOOF relationship. Just thinking about how this impacts the ability for scalability in the core business. I guess is it fair to assume that this is completely separate? And given it's a bit more of a lower touch kind of a relationship in the white labeling and a lot of the, I guess, the effort comes from the IOOF side of things that come -- that doesn't really impact your ability to scale the core. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [38] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It certainly doesn't distract our sales team from looking for new opportunities in the marketplace because we're supporting and promoting this product to their channels. So our sales team are looking for other opportunities. So from that point of view, it allows us to, I suppose, work with IOOF and actually have a relationship with advisers that we couldn't before, whilst not distracting us from our own growth opportunities. In terms of the operating efficiency in the business, look, it's about us continually thinking about our staff in our call center, our operations and our technology infrastructure for growth. We're very confident that we invest at the right time to support that growth. And I don't think it'll get in the way of our organic growth. That's not our intent. Our track record says that. So we're absolutely delighted to be able to take this on at the same time as ClearView and to be thinking about strong organic growth. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [39] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our next question is from Nic Burgess of Ord Minnett. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nicolas Burgess, Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst [40] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Just a couple of questions. How should we -- or can you remind us what the custody and noncustody split is for the Xplore business? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [41] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can remind you I think as at -- what date have we got? Kitrina, do you want to... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [42] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 31st of December. So when we went out with the second quarter ASX announcement, it was $15 billion for Xplore, and there was $9 billion of custody and $6 billion of noncustody. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nicolas Burgess, Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst [43] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And just in terms of revenue margins, how should we -- on the platform, how should we think about regular margins versus private-label margins, I guess, in particular, IOOF? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [44] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look, the IOOF margin will be lower. At this point in time, we are yet to think about how we -- if we report that differently. So we're going through and thinking through that process. It will be a lower margin. We'll have a lower expense base as well. So I think from an EBITDA perspective, it's absolutely consistent. It'll depend on how much of -- or how much flow you get from IOOF, whether it changes the revenue margins in the short term. There's yet to be $1 there, so I don't think it'll actually impact our margins materially in the short term. And I think we'll have more to say about that in the future as we see how the rollout goes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Nicolas Burgess, Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst [45] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And then finally, I guess, how should we think about noncustody margins compared to custody margins? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [46] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, noncustody is driven by -- it's usually an account-based fee. It's not driven by FUA. It's not percentage-based. It's an account-based fee and I think that you probably should think about it from a profitability point of view in terms of an EBITDA margin. And I think there'll be more to say about that once we get out our -- the Xplore business in the stable and we look at how we report that segment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [47] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Our next question comes from Aashita Bharadwaj of Citi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aashita Bharadwaj, [48] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Three quick ones, please. The first maybe a follow-up on the noncustody EBITDA margin. In the analyst pack, it looks like your current margins are about 66%. Is that representative of future margins? Or should we expect additional costs to come in? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [49] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Noncustody, 66%? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [50] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. So I think that's largely the Ord Minnett portfolio at the moment. And I think what I would say to that is similar to what Andrew said. When we get the Xplore portfolio, we'll look at how we break that out and report that going forward. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aashita Bharadwaj, [51] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And then maybe just on the gross margin decline in the Platform segment, that decline half-in-half. How should we think about that going forward? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [52] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So the platform margin -- are you talking about the revenue or the underlying EBITDA? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aashita Bharadwaj, [53] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, the gross margin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [54] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gross margin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [55] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The gross margin. Yes. So it will be impacted by the revenue and the cash rate. So as we mentioned earlier, you'll see a full 6 months of the November cap rate in the second half and going forward. And then from a direct expenses perspective, it will increase in line with the volumes is our expectation. So we wouldn't -- other than the pressure on the cash margin, we wouldn't expect the gross profit margin to move other than that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Aashita Bharadwaj, [56] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And then just maybe lastly, if you can give us an update on the ClearView transition and how you're expecting that to go forward. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [57] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think I mentioned that earlier. Look, it's on track for the second half. The project has a target date, ready to go, which would see a transition in this half. It seems to be going well. It's in the order of $1.3 billion depending on market movement that we would expect to move over. And so our best information is it's on track and will deliver as planned. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [58] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have a follow-up question from Siraj Ahmed of Citi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [59] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A few quick ones. And I'm just confirming, so the FY '22 guidance, that would include IOOF assumptions in there, wouldn't it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [60] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's guidance for the combined business and all the current client relationships, yes. So at this point in time, that's based on us having confidence on having increased the platform of HUB24 by $5 billion to $6 billion. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [61] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Got it. And on the admin pricing, I understand that you don't have a big back book and your pricing is lower. I think previously, you had sort of indicated if you look at the retail rate card, your pricing is quite expensive, right? Is there a need for you to adjust that retail rate card? Any... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [62] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Look, we keep looking at that. And at some point, we probably will republish that. What we've been focused on is growth and strategy. It's known in the market. People understand how we work. We've always tailored that price based on opportunity. We will look at that moving forward, Siraj. And it will be part of a larger product. Well, we wouldn't just do it on its own. It would be efficient for us to do that with new products or features and do it all at once. Back to your guidance topic, we absolutely believe that the opportunity we have could be greater than the target we've got. We don't want to forecast what IOOF what may or may not deliver. I know people are excited about that. It's early days. We get to launch a product. But it could be a great result across any of our clients. So if that changes, we'll let you know. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Siraj Ahmed, Citigroup Inc., Research Division - Associate [63] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. So you're saying it's there, but you're not assuming big numbers from IOOF per se. Just last thing. I mean one thing that surprised me on the negative, your revenue per account for the platform actually declined half-on-half. I mean given higher transaction fees, et cetera, you would think the revenue per account increases. Can you just touch on that? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [64] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Revenue per account will be (inaudible) affected by the cash margin. The higher transaction fees are in terms of dollar terms, not necessarily in proportion to the books. So you would have had a large amount of trading in second half '20 through the volatility through COVID. So you had a whole lot of money moving around. So proportionally, as a book, you had larger volume of trading even though in dollar terms, this half it's increased. Proportionately, it's probably less as a result, which means on a percentage basis, it actually has a different result. Is that clear enough, Kitrina? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kitrina Shanahan, HUB24 Limited - CFO [65] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, there's nothing else to add to that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [66] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have a follow-up question from Brendan Carrig of Macquarie. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brendan Carrig, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [67] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just one more from me. Just given the excess of liquidity for the banks at the moment, have you had any discussions? Or do you think that there's potential risk of the potential for your deposit providers to potentially reprice lower in the current environment? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [68] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We're always in discussion with all of our providers. The relationship we have with our deposit provider has a fair distance to run yet. It's in the marketplace. It's a long runway to finish. We're always having discussions. Look, we need to think about how to get the best outcome for our shareholders and how to get the best outcome for our customers and work with providers to do that. We're committed to doing that. I think we've got a lot of runway before our current arrangement ends. Absolutely, we think that there's an opportunity in regards of that to rethink how cash products are invested and maybe come up with different opportunities for customers as well. So whilst discussions are underway, we don't think there's any short-term impact. And if that changes, we'll let the market know. But our view is to come up with different opportunities and innovate in this environment. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brendan Carrig, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [69] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Just on that, Andrew, maybe just to flesh that out a bit more. To innovate, does that mean that you want to potentially try to search for some higher yield in order to extract better benefits for those customers based on those that are sitting on accounts? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [70] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think we as an industry need to think about retiring since you think about how we can get better outcomes, and we've got people plowing money into equities because of low interest rate returns. There are other ways to invest in cash-related products that we think we should look at with business partners that provide choices to customers. So we may provide a choice of different opportunities. We're thinking through that at the moment, but it's early days. But our aim would be to try and help consumers at the same time as try and create some flexibility and, I suppose, ring-fence the business for future changes that will provide some upside. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [71] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I'll hand the call back to Mr. Alcock for closing comments. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Andrew Alcock, HUB24 Limited - MD & Director [72] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, thank you, again, everyone. As I said, it's great to be here today as Australia's best overall platform. We look forward to seeing those of you on our rounds at our road show over the next couple of weeks. As always, thank you for your support and interest, and we'll talk to you again soon.