U.S. Markets open in 1 hr 12 mins

Edited Transcript of IFM.AX earnings conference call or presentation 19-Aug-19 12:30am GMT

Full Year 2019 Infomedia Ltd Earnings Call

Frenchs Forest, New South Wales Nov 15, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Infomedia Ltd earnings conference call or presentation Monday, August 19, 2019 at 12:30:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

================================================================================

Corporate Participants

================================================================================

* Jonathan Rubinsztein

Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director

* Richard Leon

Infomedia Ltd - CFO

================================================================================

Conference Call Participants

================================================================================

* Chris Savage

Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Senior Industries Analyst

* Garry Sherriff

RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst

* Nicolas Burgess

Baillieu Holst Ltd, Research Division - Equity Research Analyst

* Tim Plumbe

UBS Investment Bank, Research Division - Director and Research Analyst

================================================================================

Presentation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good morning. Welcome to Infomedia's Full Year Financial Year 2019 Results Conference Call. Richard Leon, our CFO, is joining me this morning, and I'll be handing the call to him shortly.

The agenda that we've got is on Slide 3.

So if I can start on Slide 5.

My key messages today are that we have executed what we promised. I'm really pleased with how we are going. And we are really excited about the opportunities we see before us.

Before I get started, I'd just like to set the scene for those who are new to the Infomedia story.

Infomedia is one of very few global providers of market-leading parts and service software to global automotive manufacturers. We believe our data and data insights proposition is unique globally.

Our products support our customers to meet their key objectives, which are to increase their sale of branded parts and services and retain customers to their brands from one purchase to the next.

The global automotive manufacturing industry is huge, fractured and facing significant change. As you can see from our competitive position, we believe we are well positioned.

If we turn to Slide 6, a quick overview of the highlights for the year.

We are pleased to have delivered another year of accelerated performance. Revenue increased 16%, and NPAT, net profit after tax, was up 25% on the previous year. Cash EBITDA increased 82%. As I've said before, cash EBITDA is a key internal metric for Infomedia. We believe it removes accounting complexity and improves transparency.

I'd like to give you an update on some of the areas we have been investing in. We've completed the Nissan global EPC rollout ex Japan. We have also broadened our coverage globally, selling more products to existing Nissan customers. Our move into data analytics with the acquisition and integration of Nidasu. For those not familiar with the acquisition, Nidasu is the leading provider of data analytics to automakers and dealers in Australia. We see significant opportunity to leverage our data and the data insights products beyond Australia. We've had some promising discussions with prospects, and we hope to say more later in the year.

At this point, I'd like to turn the call over to Infomedia's CFO, Richard Leon, to run through the financial results in more detail. I'll be back on the call shortly to talk through some of the emerging opportunities.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [2]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you, Jonathan. Good morning, everyone.

Beginning on Slide 8.

A very solid finish to the financial year ending 30 June 2019. We at Infomedia are proud to have delivered such a strong top line and bottom line growth.

Our fiscal year '19 objective, previously shared with you, was to continue our growth momentum and to hold our cash costs steady. By delivering to both these areas, our cash EBITDA improved in excess of 80% year-on-year.

As Jonathan mentioned, for those that may be new, cash EBITDA is a key performance measure for the business. Our motivation for adopting cash EBITDA as a key performance metric is our belief this offers a more transparent view of our underlying activity and acknowledges the impact of investing in product development and the costs that are capitalized.

Cash-generative nature of our business is evident, with cash closing more than $2 million up from previous corresponding period to $15.5 million. This having paid in excess of $16 million in both dividends and the acquisition of Nidasu.

The Board has declared a final dividend of $0.0215 per share, taking our full year dividend to $0.039 per share, an increase of 26% from the previous year.

To Slide 9.

We are delighted to report the acquisition of Nidasu that closed in late December '18 and a business that largely operates in Australia is delivering to expectations. Also pleasing to see over the last 2 months is a positive traction and engagement outside of Australia, leveraging off Infomedia's unique global footprint. While still early days, the level of interest shown from auto manufacturers in the data insight services the Nidasu product provides is encouraging. So now we have grouped Nidasu revenue in with our services product offering.

Parts and Superservice each contributed and continued to deliver strong growth. Growth in our parts product largely came from the near-completed rollout of the global Nissan EPC contract. We continue to receive very positive feedback from the many thousand dealers around the world utilizing our parts solution.

All regions delivered growth. Asia Pacific and EMEA, Europe, Middle East and Africa delivered strong double-digit growth in their respective local currency. Americas revenue growth was modest, though delivered improved margins and profitability despite undertaking an operational restructure.

Slide 10 is our 4-year retrospective review. This graph records the challenges tackled by the business 3 years ago. At that time, we openly shared with the market that we had determined our best option was to accelerate investment. The impact of this accelerated investment is reflected by the period of decline in cash EBITDA, as seen by the gray shaded area. With focus and successfully executing to our objectives over the past 3 years, driving sales, investing in our products and rebuilding our platform, fiscal year '19 was the year we realized the benefit from all the hard work. We are humbled and appreciative for the support and confidence the investment community has entrusted us with during those years.

To my final summary, Slide 11.

We delivered what we said we would, drive growth and improve margins. We maintained and will continue to maintain our proven value discipline model, which simply put is a self-imposed accountability for any dollar invested to have a rapid and multiplier return. We believe this to be a fundamental as we now launch into our next phase of growth.

We believe we have positioned ourselves well, sustaining double-digit top line growth. 95% of revenue is recurring. 80% of that revenue generated offshore, all contributing to stronger margins and high cash conversion.

With this solid platform, we have the confidence to aggressively pursue new growth opportunities and inject further investment into the business, this time without losing any momentum and continue to deliver top and bottom line growth.

At this point, I would like to return to Jonathan, who will share our perspective on the automotive industry, an industry facing considerable disruption, and why we are driven to further invest and innovate to capitalize on these emerging disruptive trends. Jonathan?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [3]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks, Richard.

If we move to Slide 13, I'd like to spend the next few moments talking about why I am excited about our business and more specifically about the opportunity to grow our market share.

We believe we are in a unique position. We are one of very few global providers of parts and service software to the global automotive industry. We also believe we are one of only a few global providers of actionable data insights to the auto industry. We think we have proven our ability to both invest and deliver sustainable growth in the business. So as Richard indicated, our approach to investment will continue so that we can capitalize on the opportunities before us.

If we move to Slide 14.

The global automotive market we support is facing significant change. We've identified 5 key disruptive trends that we think create opportunities. We know automakers are facing disruptive pressures and decreasing new car sales. We believe the parts and service segments of dealerships will be among the most profoundly impacted by new technologies and trends emerging.

I'd like to discuss these trends in a little more detail.

The first of the disruptive trends is what we call digitization of the customer journey. The customer journey is increasingly important to automakers who are focused on defending market share. The disintermediated model from the manufacturer or OE, to a national sales company, to customer-facing retail dealerships, means that the OEs are prioritizing the customer experience in order to retain customers to their brand from one purchase to the next. Digitization of the customer experience is driving a shift towards global solutions to ensure consistent engagement around the world and drive a positive and trusting customer experience.

Evolution of the dealership is the second trend. The retail channel of the OEs, the dealership, is evolving, resulting in larger multibrand shop fronts that require efficient and integrated solutions, sophisticated workshops and increased professionalization of both the sales force and skilled technicians.

The third trend we have identified is a rise of connected and more complex cars. Car innovation and new features are driven by electronics. More complexity results in more sophisticated [parts] that, in turn, requires skilled technicians. The Internet of Things, IoT, also enables real-time connection across connected cars and expands the number of touch points for the manufacturer along the customer journey.

EV, electric vehicles, and autonomous driving is the fourth trend we have identified. And while it's a growing trend, we believe penetration will take time. The other important factor is that hybrid electric vehicles have more components and thus need even more servicing than pure internal combustion engines.

The fifth trend we identified is the rise of car-sharing services and the change to vehicle ownership structure. There is more detail on each of these in the appendix on the slide pack.

So if we move to Slide 15.

Where do we play? We are often asked about our addressable market. This slide captures our view on our opportunity. We have pulled this slide together ready to show the scale of the market, the scale of the subsegment of the market we play in, but also the opportunity to leverage our assets into the broader global auto software market.

The market is huge. The global auto dealer market is USD 13 billion. That's the light blue circle on the chart. The mark then -- and the market we predominantly play in is a global dealer after parts and service market, which we believe to be about USD 2 billion to USD 3 billion, represented by the white circle. This market is growing consistently at a 6% to 8% CAGR according to statistics from the NADA studies.

Infomedia, shown as our logo at the center, is currently just over 2.5% of the global aftersales, dealer parts and service markets. The global auto software market, which is the big dark blue circle, is expected to grow to USD 60 billion in 2025. So a big opportunity to grow both market share in our existing market and extend our existing assets into the global auto software market. I will explain this later.

On Slide 16, we provide an overview of Infomedia's unique core assets.

As I've said before, the team and I have been very focused over the last few years on securing this foundation. We believe there is a lot more global footprint, particularly in the Americas, and we are focused on Canada and Mexico as mandated markets. We will continue to invest in these assets, but we are now much better positioned to leverage them into the broader addressable market.

If we move to Slide 17.

Today, most of our revenue comes from manufacturers, the OEs, the national sales companies, the NSCs, and their customers which are the dealerships. We believe we have a huge opportunity to grow market share in the broader ecosystem, depicted by the dotted box on the right. We will leverage our core assets into these other segments by repackaging and repurposing our existing assets. We have already undertaken a number of successful pilots and look forward to extending these out this year.

So if you move to Slide 18.

How are we going to get there? We are proactively trying to capitalize on these emerging trends. We are building the next generation of our integrated parts and service platform, which will start rolling out next calendar year. And we'll have a lot more to say about this later in the year.

We are driving our global account strategy further. For example, by working with Nissan as a truly global partner, this allows us to work with the local national sales companies by leveraging our global relationship with the OE. This is one of our core values, which is navigate global, execute local.

And as mentioned, the third point is we are partnering to expand market coverage and leverage assets into the wider automotive ecosystem. These partner organizations, such as DMS providers or companies in the collision or mechanical segments. We have an M&A strategy to target assets that give access to new customers, new geographies or increased technology footprint. And finally, we have a clear data strategy to leverage VIN-specific data assets to provide actionable insights to our global customers. We have a game plan to play, we have assets to deliver, and we have a team to execute. We just see a huge opportunity before us.

On Slide 19.

So in summary, we are accelerating performance and delivered another year of strong performance. We are innovating and we are trying to capitalize on disruption and emerging trends. We are a global business with local presence and very focused on maintaining our momentum and disciplined cost management. We are excited about the future, but we are realistic about the fact that execution is key. We are having fun in the fast lane. And yes, you might have realized that those 4 are actually our 4 core values.

So looking ahead, we have entered financial year '20 with strong global relationships and good momentum and expect to deliver a continued double-digit growth in both revenue and earnings.

Slide 20.

So that concludes the presentation of Infomedia and 2019 financial results. On behalf of Richard and myself, thank you for your time this morning. We look forward to catching up with many of you over the coming days.

If you are new to our story, please get in touch via our website or the contact details on the bottom of the ASX release.

At this point, I would like to open the line for questions. (Operator Instructions) Thank you very much.

================================================================================

Questions and Answers

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operator [1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Operator Instructions) Your first question comes from the line of Garry Sherriff of Royal Bank of Canada.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry Sherriff, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [2]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a few questions. Firstly, on acquisitions. I noticed that your Microcat CRM acquisition, you've reduced contingent consideration and made an impairment against goodwill. Can you maybe just provide some color on what happened from an operational perspective with that acquisition?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [3]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry, good to hear from you. Look forward to catching up. So a lot of this data is in the Footnote to Table 8 of the director's report to the annual report, if you have it. And as you identify, Garry, this is a noncash accounting adjustment. In Table 8, it shows that there was a benefit to NPAT of a noncash item of $165,000. Now operationally, we still believe this is a very valuable asset for us. This is probably more a timing reassessment for us than anything else. We are seeing traction outside of Australia with the CRM product. And now combined with the Nidasu acquisition, we see a lot more opportunities for this particular asset.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry Sherriff, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [4]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay. And talking about Nidasu, I just want to clarify, which product segment is that sitting in? Or is that sitting across both parts and service?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [5]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. It's currently -- we've grouped it into the services for now. We see the data insight as a service for our customers. The reason why we put it in there is that it's early days. The revenue contributed from the Nidasu product is still on the modest side. And as we see more traction within not only the data insights, but the data assets that we have, it's likely we will then break it out into a separate category.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry Sherriff, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [6]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And can you -- I guess can we get some sense on -- for that specific asset, Nidasu, what the broad sales growth range, I guess, would be acceptable for FY '20? I mean I know it's early days, but if you annualize, and I know you've done it in your footnote, what you guys did in FY '19, it would be interesting to get a sense on what sort of broad sales growth range you guys would think is acceptable in FY '20 for Nidasu.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [7]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look, I'm going -- I'll answer that. We have very high expectations. We are still proving out. And I don't want to under or overpromise. But at this point, our expectations are pretty high, both for the data and the Nidasu growth opportunities. There are some fairly significant opportunities in the pipe. And I guess, as we prove those out, we'll happily share those.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry Sherriff, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [8]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And the final question. Capital management, you flagged in February as being under consideration. I'm wondering, can you give us some more detail on this? And what's the likelihood of any potential change to dividend policy?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [9]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think at the moment, we're very happy with that cash-generative nature of the business. And until we have a specific requirement to change that, we'll continue as is. And as you can see, we have paid dividends. We have also made acquisition, and the business is still cash positive. So I think at the moment, the Board makes that decision and we'll monitor that carefully, I guess.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry Sherriff, RBC Capital Markets, Research Division - Analyst [10]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Can you maybe just recap what the payout ratio or the dividend policy is for me?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [11]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our current policy, Garry, is between 75% to 85% of EPS. We've been paying consistently at the lower end of that range. And just to add to what Jonathan was saying. I think the takeaways here is that we do see a lot of opportunities in a much larger market. And how that plays out, it will continue to be an active discussion at Board level, and we'll certainly be transparent and communicate any decisions on that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operator [12]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your next question comes from the line of Tim Plumbe of UBS.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Plumbe, UBS Investment Bank, Research Division - Director and Research Analyst [13]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garry asked a couple of mine, so I'll just chuck a couple in there, but how should we be thinking about the operating leverage of the business going forward? I mean if I look at cash EBITDA, I think you got about $0.80 out of every incremental dollar dropping down. Obviously, you've gone through a period where you've had pretty significant investment in the cost base. Going forward, how should we think about that relationship, the operating leverage within the business?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [14]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Tim, the operating leverage is still there. I think what Jonathan and I are trying to say now is that we see a great opportunity to accelerate investment again. So we want to invest. We want to pursue the opportunities aggressively. And the call out that we are trying to make is that we feel we could do that, but not lose any momentum. Now we're calling out that for FY '20, we still see double-digit growth in the top and the bottom line. We're still holding to that. But I think the important one here is the opportunity to pursue these -- pursue through more investment.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Plumbe, UBS Investment Bank, Research Division - Director and Research Analyst [15]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Great. And then just the other question from me. In terms of pipeline within the EPC segment, I mean, obviously, Nissan was a very big contract. Are there any other major contracts or midsized contracts that are kind of there in the horizon over the next 12 months? Or is it more just kind of smaller opportunities?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [16]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim, as we mentioned before, typically, there are 1 or 2 of these every 3 years. And the sales cycle is quite a long cycle. We actually have a number of small regional ones in play at the moment across various regions. They wouldn't be -- and those are medium-sized. We're finding a lot more opportunity really around leveraging out those assets outside the segment. And so in reality to try and grow the space, we're exploring how we can leverage those data assets. So it's actually leveraging the EPC data assets that we've got. And so for example, calling it as an API to different participants in the industry.

In terms of big EPC contracts, we don't have any, clearly, in the horizon, but there are a couple that we can see that we are certainly looking at early stages. But in terms of trying to get the growth, I think it's outside of that space.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operator [17]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your next question comes from the line of Chris Savage of Bell Potter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Savage, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Senior Industries Analyst [18]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan, probably also for you, the low growth you called out in the Americas, is that an issue in that market or is it more the recommended versus mandated model that limits the growth there?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [19]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look, I think I am disappointed with the growth in the U.S. I also think that we are -- and we have restructured the U.S. And our core strategy really is to drive a three-pronged strategy. So we are looking at a -- how do we chase more in the mandated market, so we're looking at Canada and Mexico. We're also looking at bolstering our elephant hunting capability, so that's really trying to sell more mandated solutions or to dealer groups. And then finally, we're looking at extending out via partnerships into some of the other channels.

What we have been focused on also is making sure that we improve our margin. So you'll see a fairly good margin improvement in the U.S. I think the focus certainly now is over -- is bolstering the revenue growth and top line, and we can do that with our kind of new strategy, if you want.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Savage, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Senior Industries Analyst [20]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay. And you also said on the Nissan rollout, it's done now ex Japan. Is the issue there that Japan wants more and so that potentially represents some upside to not just Japan, but also globally?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [21]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So in fact, we have rolled out the wholesale EPC to Japan. Japan, it's just really been a delay in their adoption. They actually implemented a new DMS application. And we will roll out -- I believe we're rolling out actually right now. So it's happening as we speak. There's not a huge upside. There could be a little bit of upside in the following financial year, yes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Savage, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Senior Industries Analyst [22]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay. And last one, probably, Richard, more so for you. Just the net interest expense in the second half. I'm guessing that's the nominal interest on contingent consideration. So if so, how should we think about that going forward?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [23]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Chris, you're right. A lot of that is the unwinding of the interest on acquisitions. There was an accelerated amount for the CRM reassessment. So it's probably overstated for this year if you're looking from a run rate point of view.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Savage, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Senior Industries Analyst [24]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay. So we don't just double that going forward.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [25]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm sorry, Chris?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chris Savage, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Senior Industries Analyst [26]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry. The 6 months was negative 1.1. So that run rate would be a bit over 2. That's not going to be the level at '19.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [27]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, that will not be the case.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operator [28]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your next question comes from the line Nick Burgess of Baillieu.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicolas Burgess, Baillieu Holst Ltd, Research Division - Equity Research Analyst [29]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a couple of questions. So Richard, to you, just the revenue performance, 16% over the year. Was currency a positive impact on that or what's the constant currency version of your group revenue growth?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [30]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. Nick, yes, there was some currency tailwinds for us. So from a constant currency perspective, we enjoyed about a 3%, 3.5% currency.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicolas Burgess, Baillieu Holst Ltd, Research Division - Equity Research Analyst [31]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay. And just to clarify some of your comments about requirements for investment in this next phase. So you're talking specifically that cash cost investment, capitalized cost investment or both. And specifically, I guess, given it's such a big item, any further guidance around what your capitalized costs are going to be over the next 12 months?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [32]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So Nick, we are planning to accelerate our investment, as we mentioned, but not at the cost of still generating double-digit top line and bottom line growth, including cash EBITDA. So you know, Nick, last time, we were talking about FY '19 that we would manage our cash cost base at a lower rate of increase to our top line. We still want to try and maintain that. FY '19 was an aggressive year for us. We managed to keep costs steady at some inflationary levels. What we'll probably do is increase our cash investment up to more or less the same rate of our top line growth. And when you think about that from an absolute dollar point of view, revenue is definitely outpacing our expenses, so it should still bode well for us.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Nicolas Burgess, Baillieu Holst Ltd, Research Division - Equity Research Analyst [33]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. Okay. And then the capitalized costs at, what -- or $18 million or $19 million, should we expect that to increase at the similar level of revenue as well?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Richard Leon, Infomedia Ltd - CFO [34]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look, so because our revenue is growing, when you guys look at our percentage of capitalization to revenue, it will come down or it has come down from previous year. I think previous year was about 25% of revenue, FY '19, about 22%. FY '20, we'll probably be looking at that, the same range. We will be investing cash costs in the product teams. And our capitalization rate still remains high at about 80%, but it's all good. If we maintain our value discipline, a lot of these investments should see a return in revenue in the future years.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Operator [35]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(Operator Instructions) There are no questions at this time. Please continue.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jonathan Rubinsztein, Infomedia Ltd - MD, CEO & Executive Director [36]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, I think we might wrap that up. Thank you very much for your time. We know it's a busy time of year, and look forward to catching up with some of you in the next few days. Thank you.