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Edited Transcript of MIN.AX earnings conference call or presentation 22-Aug-19 4:00am GMT

Full Year 2019 Mineral Resources Ltd Earnings Call

Bibra Lake Sep 7, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Mineral Resources Ltd earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, August 22, 2019 at 4:00:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Christopher James Ellison

Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director

* Mark G. Wilson

Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary

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Conference Call Participants

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* Joshua Tan;ICBM Capital;Chief Investment Officer

* Michael Murphy;Perpetual Limited;High Yield Analyst

* Peter Bell

Bellmont Securities - Co-Founder and Director

* Rahul Anand

Morgan Stanley, Research Division - Equity Analyst

* Brad Thompson;The Australian Financial Review;Reporter

* Stuart McKinnon;The West Australian;Mining Reporter

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Mineral Resources full year results conference call. (Operator Instructions)

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Chris Ellison, Managing Director. Please go ahead.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [2]

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Thanks, Ashley. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to the Mineral Resources full year results. I'm joined by Mark Wilson, our CFO; and other support staff. And I'm going to give you a rundown on our highlights and achievements for 2019. I'll give you an update on our safety performance. I'll talk about the past year in the Mining Services and the Commodities business. And I'll give you some -- Mark will come on and give you some details around our financials, and then I'll walk you through where we've been on the operations and where we're heading over the near to mid-term over the next 12 to 18 months.

Key headlines for the business over the 12 months that we've just been through. Our largest growth period on record. We've invested -- I was going to say we've spent a lot of capital, but we've invested heavily in, I think, some businesses that are going to see us through to the next 20 to 50 years. We've put in some fairly amazing facilities and plants and processes, and we'll reap the rewards of those going forward.

We've spent about $900 million. Most of that's gone into lithium, some of it to iron ore and a little bit lesser to our Mining Services part of our business. I think that, that investment has probably put us into one of the best lithium assets in the world combined with the 2 operations we got at -- we're on both at Wodgina and Mt. Marion. And potential on where we're going to end up in ownership in hydroxide with our new joint venture partners in Albemarle.

We went over to the U.S., and we raised $700 million in the U.S. bond, unsecured. And at the end of the year, we actually managed to turn to profit yet again. So we've turned it up $433 million EBITDA. So it's nice to finish the year and make some money.

The lithium business, Wodgina, we -- about 86% complete at June 30. We've got train 1 commissioned, train 1 of 3 trains. Mt. Marion is mostly complete. We've got a good life sitting ahead of it with more than 20 years.

Then the iron ore, we took over the cliffs operations down in Koolyanobbing, which is our main hub for processing iron ore. Iron Valley stayed at a steady state. And we've expanded our iron ore investment in the north through Kumina and Marillana deposit that we have joined up with the guys from Brockman.

The Mining Services business in the second half grew 39% compared to the second -- the first half, and we've seen continued growth in that area, significant growth.

And the innovation part of our business, the fourth pillar, 150-tonne carbon fiber dump truck trays are finally in operation. I'll talk a bit more about these areas later. The synthetic graphite pilot plant was successfully commissioned in June, and it's performed exceptionally well. The light rail continues with third-party verification nearing completion. And the tedious task of getting all of the approvals for the right-of-way has been ongoing, and we'll work all through that. And we've entered into another NextGen plant. Last, almost 12 million tonne. This is now 15 million tonne. And we're in joint venture with Metso Minerals, which is probably the premier mining equipment provider in the world.

Few interesting stats on our shareholder value that we have continued to deliver. The directors and employees own about 15% of the business. We're building a business with 20- to 50-year horizons, and that's both in the Mining Services and the Commodities parts of the business. And we've got a very secure geographical spread across a large part of Australia, which gives us, obviously, the security of having different weather zones and different things happening in different part of the company -- country.

Interesting, if you bought a share in Mineral Resources when we listed in 2006 for $0.90 with the capital growth and the dividends that we've paid, it would now be worth about $19.5. We've had annual compound growth of 26% for the past 12 years, and we've maintained that through GFC and commodities downturns. On average, we've converted 100% of our reported EBITDA to cash since listing in 2006, and we've averaged about 18% return on invested capital since we listed. And we paid the dividend every 6 months.

Safety area. We're well ahead of the industry standards in this area still, but we have not achieved one of the internal goals that we've set. We've added during the past 12 months, 642 new people to the business. It's been challenging. It's taken time to get them to understand and embrace our safety culture.

Our TRIFR rate has increased from 2.5 to 3.99. Still a good level in our industry and any business will be proud to have that, but we're not, we're looking for sub 2.5. But at the same time, our lost time rate has declined by 24%. So good result in that area. So we've got all hands are engaged on the behavioral issues in this area, and we've made some good progress over the last quarter and pulling the sector where it belongs.

I'll hand you over now to Mark to address you on the financial performance, and I'll come back to you afterwards.

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [3]

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Thank you, Chris, and good afternoon, everybody. And as Chris has said, it's been a very significant year for Mineral Resources since we invest in the future. Focus has been on investments to drive long-term income streams for the company, building on high-quality portfolio, Mining Services contracts. That have been at the heart or the core of the business over the last 25 years. These also have been very significant because it enables us to be well positioned for further growth into the future with all the initiatives that we've taken, which I'll touch on later.

Just before I get into the details, I'll give you a little bit of context, which is the backdrop. In 2019 -- FY '19, (inaudible) backup business. At the start of the year, we were selling lithium to our joint venture partner out of Mt. Marion for USD 1,070 a tonne. By the end of the year, that had dropped to $682 a tonne. So a decline in [commodity] pricing for us, it's 36% in the year. On the other hand, iron ore prices in July at the start of the year, we're averaging about USD 64 a tonne, by the end of the year, that had increased to $109 a tonne, so an increase of 70%. So significant change in -- changes in the core commodity prices for us.

As we've previously mentioned a number of times early in the year, we stopped our DSO operation at Wodgina. And in FY '18, those sales contributed $174 million of EBITDA in addition to Mining Services income.

And as we've disclosed previously, we made that decision to preserve the value of the orebody for future downstreaming. So despite that decision around Wodgina and despite the soft lithium prices over the year, group, as Chris said, has delivered strong result with $433 million of normalized EBITDA. And I believe that's a testimony to the resilience of the group's business model.

I'll now unpack the results for the year in a little bit more detail. The year saw our revenue come in at about $1.5 billion with the second half contributing almost $1 billion of that. Statutory EBITDA was $386 million. The major difference to the normalized numbers that we cite is the unrealized fair value adjustment on the investment that we have in Pilbara Minerals. Normalized EBITDA was down around 14% from the prior year for the reasons I've given a few minutes ago.

Normalized NPAT was $205 million. And off the back of the results announced today, the directors have declared a second half fully franked dividend of $0.31 per share, bringing the total for the year to $0.44. And to assist investors and analysts, for the first time, we've included comprehensive information in the appendix to our pack to help you understand our business in more detail including a full reconciliation of nonIFRS-related information.

In terms of the P&L, we set out in the deck -- the investment deck, it's on the platform today, a little bit of detail around that. The second half, our normalized EBITDA was around $330 million, which is a strong performance in the half that reflected the initial contribution from Koolyanobbing, first 6 months of operations, as Chris mentioned, along with stronger iron ore prices and some additional margin from external Mining Services contracts. We point out that, that $330 million of EBITDA was achieved with no lithium sales unrecognized out of Wodgina in the half.

Delays at Wodgina did impact the results for the Mining Services business. We also had a few delays in the start-up of some of the external contracts that we had expected to come online earlier. And therefore, Mining Services business itself came in below our expectations at $209 million for the year. But I see that as a timing issue rather than an impediment-type issue.

One thing that became apparent during the course of the year to me in the first year in the business here is that we were under recovering on some of our plant rates within our internal operations with the effect that the mining business has -- sorry, Mining Services business has been subsidizing our mining business on our internal projects, and we've taken steps to address that going forward.

In terms of operating costs, they were generally in line with where they were in the prior year. We're starting to now see some increased pressure on cost as the market, particularly in WA, heats up. Again, depreciation was broadly in line with the prior year. We haven't begun to depreciate the significant investment made during the year. But as that's now complete -- largely complete, depreciation will grow in FY '20. Interest costs were higher during the period as we did fund the significant investments that we've made. And our effective tax rate remains at about 30%.

We've included in this presentation a bridge to help reconcile movements in EBITDA between FY '18 and FY '19. Largely -- or most significantly, you can see a significant movement out of lithium into iron ore in terms of the contributions. The iron ore increase has been driven not only by the higher prices that I mentioned, but also a further 1.2 million tonnes that we shipped over the course of the year compared to the prior year.

In terms of our cash flows, we've set that out in some detail. Total capital outlays for the year ended at $858 million, of which $781 million was on CapEx and $77 million on investments. There's a little bit more breakdown a couple of slides later on for that. We did get hit by working capital. We had that in the first half, and that continued in the second half as we build up stocks with Kooly and was able to balance increase with the higher value of iron ore sales in the half. As Chris said, and I think it's an important point to note, that over its history since listing, Mineral Resources has consistently committed on average 100% cash conversion of its EBITDA.

The balance sheet tells the story of the year. It's grown by over 50% during the course of the year as a result of the investments that we've discussed. Importantly, we've taken a couple of significant steps over the year to ensure that we've got a strong base for the future. We've looked to -- we've moved to sell a portion of the Wodgina asset, recycling a portion of our capital base. That's important to us to recycle. That allows us to pursue other opportunities and gives us a bit more diversification.

The financials do record the Wodgina asset now as held for sale. And so therefore, 60% of the value of that asset is shown on the balance sheet as a current asset with the balance held as would normally be the case in plant and equipment.

The second key decision we took over the year was to refinance our debt utilizing in the U.S. again, as Chris mentioned, allowing us to access unsecured funds for 8 years. This gives us significant certainty over the next 8 years as we continue to grow a range of growth opportunities and also gives us quick access to further capital should it ever be required.

Gross debt finished the year to around $1.1 billion. Just under $200 million of that relates to higher purchase, and that gross debt equates to about 2.2x normalized EBITDA, which is a level we're comfortable with. Net debt sat at about $872 million over the year.

We've included in the pack a waterfall that shows the build for the net debt position by year-end. We will expect -- we do expect the Albemarle transaction to complete in the current half. And all of inflation, we expect the business to return to a net cash position.

So in summary, the group is in good shape. We've got a strong core with our Mining Services business generating annuity-style income as it's done for more than 2 dozen years.

We're positioned very well in key commodities. Each has a very strong future. We're continuing to innovate for the future, and we're well capitalized to take advantage of the opportunities that exist in front of us.

With that, I'll hand back to Chris to take you through more detail regarding performance in 2019

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [4]

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Thanks, Mark. I'll give you a quick rundown on the past year where we've been from an operational point of view, where we're looking to take the business over the next 12 to 18 months. Of interesting, I've read a couple of the analyst reports that have come out this morning and (inaudible) is very quick (inaudible), well done. I was tempted to actually grab your report and use it on this call. You guys have got a good handle, TDM Asset management, most of you are giving a bit of a headliner business. I hope we're able to give you the detail you need to be able to understand it.

The Mining Services business, it's robust, it's performing extremely well, it's probably at the best it's ever been. We've had some reasonable growth prospects in it. It's a contracting business. It's the core of the MRL business. It's the heartbeat. It's what gives us the ability to be able to move quick. It keeps that aggressive nature about us. It's very important to our business. It always has been.

It's made up of 4 core pillars. The crushing and processing, which is obviously simply crushing, screening and beneficiation plant. It's been around for about 25 years, very robust, long-term solid business, good annuity stream earnings.

The mining side of the business has grown significantly over the last 12 months in particular. We own an awful lot of yellow goods out in that business. We do all our own drill and blast, but mainly through a couple of very select subcontractors. But aside from that, we own everything else in terms of dump trucks, diggers, dozers, all those sorts of things.

Supply chain is the third pillar of the business. So it looks after all of our ports in the south and the north. It runs the on- and off-highway road trains, and we have got big numbers of those on the road and we run all our own rail locomotives and wagons. They mainly operate down on the south on the rail around the Koolyanobbing to Esperance region.

And then fourthly, we've got the innovation that is centered around creating unique mining solutions with high barriers to entry. Current projects we got running under innovation, we've got a NextGen crushing plant which I mentioned. It's a 15 million-tonne portable plant that it's a much lower cost than what we've produced before. Very innovative using all the quality products from Metso. We've got the carbon fiber manufacturing facility, the lightweight rail system for spread to deposits and large-scale synthetic graphite pilot plant, and that has a byproduct of hydrogen running on the Hazer partnership that we have.

So under the crushing and processing, the business, as I've said, is running extremely well. Our client retention remains extremely high. No loss of contracts over the past 12 months. Crushing commenced at Koolyanobbing at a current run rate today of about 7.5 million tones.

The Wodgina crushing plant, a big base, probably our biggest crushing plant ever. It's only just got under operation in June this year. And we're probably down about 10% on our internal expectations and when we thought we were heading, and that's primarily because a couple of our bigger clients out there have had delays through weather and a range of different things and being able to get new operations started. But they're not gone. They're still out there in the pipeline, and they're still working on them. They're getting closer.

We were awarded 2 external mining contracts for load and haul, which we generally don't do external contracts unless it's with one of our blue-chip customers that really understand our safety culture and the way we run our business. So we've awarded 2. They're running extremely well, and they're well above production budgets.

Then on the supply chain logistics side, we've hold an extra 12% this year of ore. We're continuing to ramp up on our Koolyanobbing operations on the rail and on the on- and off-highway fleet. We're moving up on the tonnes. And we are currently now moving all our Mt. Marion spudders running out of the Esperance port. So a bit of a reduction in cost.

Just a couple of graphs that we put in on the performance of the Mining Services business over the last 5 years, just to give you some understanding of how to map that business out. But we consistently had growth of around 13% over the last decade. Our margins have remained consistent, and our EBITDA has got compounded annual growth of around 14%.

As a general rule of thumb, about every 5 or so years, we double that business in size. So that's been running for about 25 years. So that's been very consistent. Our current order book is as strong as it's ever been, and we have, today, got an even greater strength in that business and the diversity of it geographically and the clients and the commodity spread, so getting more and more robust.

Commodities business. It's a profit share model that were run, most of you are aware of that. We've taken ownership of an orebody jointly with -- generally, with a junior. And then we provide them with capital and the skill sets that we have in design, construct, operation and product sales. We generally secure right upfront a life-of-mine mining services contract, so that we are able to provide our normal mining services right across the board. We get paid priority out of that. And then whatever is left, we split it in line with percentage ownership.

We currently have 4 operating mine sites that fall under this category. We've got Iron Valley in the north on the Pilbara producing about 7.5 million tonne of iron ore, about 40%, 60% lump for iron split.

Koolyanobbing, which is the old Cliffs assets that we took over down in the south, and we've joined them up with the existing iron ore assets we had around Carina. We started down there with a run rate of around 6 million tonnes. That's all producing lump and fines at the 40/60 ratio, it's similar to Iron Valley. We've currently increased that run rate to 7.5 million tonnes. And the Wodgina lithium in the Pilbara, it's the world's largest hard mount -- hard rock deposit, excuse me. And that will underpin operations for the next 30 to 50 years, and we are just completing a joint venture agreement between Albemarle and Mineral Resources. And then we have Mt Marion, of course, in the south in the Goldfields, another world-class deposits, it's got more than 20 years of mine life in it and a great partnership with Ganfeng where we own that jointly 50/50.

The Commodities performance. The lithium got a little overheated last year. We were getting up to some pretty dizzy heights. We've seen that happen often in the past with the likes of iron ore and other commodities. That happen sometimes, but it just got to an unsustainable level. It's always nice to go there, but it's never going to last long. And I think it just gives the market a lot of unreasonable expectations. At the same time last year, iron ore was pretty marginal. So about this time last year, if you're in lithium, you're a hero. And if you're in iron ore, you're a total loser. Today, that's sort of turned around a little bit. But I'm saying that the lithium is getting back to a more sustainable, manageable level, a lot more sensible. It's probably overshot a little bit whereas iron ore has nearly doubled and it's currently calling its sales again. So no one's really sure where those prices are heading.

Mt. Marion has been very steady and consistent. We supply under a full life-of-mine offtake agreement with Ganfeng. Our unit cost may have moved up a little from last year. But with the expansion on the plant, we put pressure on the utilities down there. Water supply is an issue because the quality of the water down there is just 8 to 10x saltier than normal saltwater. So up go your costs on right across the board. And utilities, we're working on that fairly hard at the moment and pulling that back.

Iron ore -- sorry, Wodgina, the first train produced in June, plant commissioning was delayed. We had some -- a bunch of faulty valves in the plant, and I've mentioned that last time. It's become -- it was a bit of an issue mainly on time. So 12 to 14 weeks to be able to replace all of them. That will all be fixed by the end of this week. We're going to shut down right now and the last of them are getting changed up. So we're going to get back. But train 1 has been producing at a fairly reasonably steady state aside from the difficulty of these valves, of course, and it's certainly been producing on-spec material.

The first shipment -- trial shipment is due to go out in mid-September, and that's going to go over to Albemarle plant, they're going to turn it into hydroxide. So everything is sort of getting to normal on that. The iron ore, we're very focused on the iron ore business at the moment, and we're looking at a whole range of opportunities we have for increasing production.

Koolyanobbing has performed well and certainly to expectations. We finished the financial year with 3.25 million tonnes exported. A bit of a late start-up there in getting the approvals and all of the bits that we anticipated. But we've got that, and it's running well.

Iron Valley is at a steady state at about 7.5 million tonnes a year. And in fact, I think this time last year I mentioned that we would stockpiling fines, but they were uneconomic to sell. They're all gone. We've moved them all on, sold them all and made some money on them. So been a good result, but again, that's just the nature of the basis what the -- all that we mine. We've learned over the years how to survive through the droughts and the hard times and take advantage when the better times come along.

Where are we going over the next 12 or so months? We've provided some guidance on the Mining Services EBITDA, and we'll try to give you some product volumes. And you obviously have the cost that we've been running at, so we'll leave you to make up your own mind on how you can pull that together. We haven't put out anything on production on Wodgina at the moment. We're still working through the commissioning on that plant, and we are looking to get close of Albemarle in the very short term. And we're going to be operating that, that operation out there, based on how the joint venture sees the best way forward. And we'll be watching the market demand, so we're certainly not going to go and produce more than we think the market can handle. And we're -- like everyone else, we're getting get an understanding of what that looks like moving forward.

With the completion of our major construction projects of both at Wodgina and the upgrade work we've done down at Marion, capital is going to be way, way down this year on what we were spending last year, obviously. We're looking to monetize some of these innovation projects that we've been working on, so that's going to be a focus going forward over the next 12 months. Then what we expect as normal, we'll probably be able to give you a little more guidance on where we're going around AGM time. Given another month or two, we hope that we're going to get a bit of feel on where these commodity prices are heading. But at the moment, they're fairly bumpy. So to give them a degree, it's pretty unpredictable.

So in the Mining Services outlook, we're certainly seeing some heightened activity out there both in the crushing and the mining side. And we had some unfinished business from the last financial year that we're moving forward with some discussions, and we're hopeful of being able to close that out. I mean there won't be any problem in getting our 15% growth year-on-year that we get, but it could be significantly better than that if the world stays in a steady state. We're going to increase the Kooly run rate by 4 million tonnes. So that's from 7.5 million up to 11.5 million. We want to have that done before Christmas, and we've got most of the bits in place for that to happen.

We've got a couple of contracts out there in the crushing area, and we hope that we'll increase the external service out there by about an extra 18 million tonnes this year. And we have, of course, a new partnership with Metso on our innovation side. So we have developed 15 million tonnes portable crushing plant. It's a lower capital cost than we have seen before with an even -- compared to our 12 million-tonne plants, and it's about a 12-week time to be able to get them to sign -- get them operating.

MRL will market and operate all of the plants in Australia. Metso will be looking at the global marketing. MRL owns all the IP on this equipment, and we expect to commence building the first plant around November. So quite exciting for our Mining Services business.

On the supply chain side, we're going to add currently about 390 extra wagons and 5 extra locos. We're going to put on about another 14 of the big off-highway 250-tonne trucks and about another 28 on-highway trucks to meet the commodities haulage that we've got to get through.

Plant commodities production. Mt. Marion will be at a steady state. It's probably going to sit. We're thinking around 340 to 360 tonnes over this financial year. There'll be a bit of 4% in there, Ganfeng life, they got a plant set up to consume that. So they want us to keep supplying some of that material to them. And as we said earlier, we are looking at getting some cost reductions down there over the next few months, and that's mainly around optimizing the water and the power supply. And we're upgrading the tails yet again, and we want -- our aim is to have all of our tails down there dry stacked. So no use for tailings dams and trying to be more conservative with water usage around that plant. And we're going to carry that through all our plants. It's a matter, of course, for being a lot more environmentally responsible.

Wodgina crushing plant, as I said earlier, is complete and operating. Delays, we're getting over those mechanical issues that we had. All 3 trains will be complete on construction by the end of September. Train 1, as I've said earlier, is running well, save for these mechanical and reliability issues that we had. And we'll continue to work through the commissioning phase to the end of this calendar year on those trains. And our brand new airport to take A320 jets is ready, willing to accept jets. And we're just working through what the authorities to get that approved, and we'll be landing our own planes on the runway from October. Huge cost saving and even more importantly, we're going to get all of those people off those highways out there, that 120,000 run each way. And we'll be able to get our people not only safely home, but we'll get them home quicker to their families as well. So -- and they'll step up the plane and step straight into the plant so we don't have to turn it off, good result with that.

Koolyanobbing, we're expecting to export this financial year somewhere between 8 million and 9 million tonnes. But as I've said, they're going to have a 40% up, a 4 million tonne increase on our run rate from now through to in November, early December. So we should get close to 9 million tonnes out of that operation. And again, 40% lump, 60 times, and we're currently working through the life-of-mine planning in that area. But we look like we got well in excess of 6 years at that high run rate.

Iron Valley, it will continue to run at a steady state. But as I always say, a little precursor over that operation, it's a high cost. We're running a lot of road trains a long, long way, 320,000. High impurities in that ore. So we are always optimistic with that operation, but it's been running a long time. And ironically, it keeps going.

Tailings storage facilities, just a quick word. We had a recent media article, totally inaccurate. Someone obviously had nothing to do when they wrote it. But we immediately reacted as all should, and we engaged a third-party expert, a hydrogeology consultant. AQ2 was engaged. They were sent to site. They went through. They've done a full report for us. It's available on our website. But the tailings dam is operating to design criteria as expected. It's done nothing unexpected. And very happy with that. It was also designed by an external expert party when we built that, and we had that same party on site and witnessed the construction, have them signed off in it, so no problems at all with our tailings dam at Wodgina.

Just an update on the JV with Albemarle. So you read that back in August, we made a few variations to that agreement. We've changed it, it's now at 60/40 Albemarle/MRL JV. I'm sure you're all aware, and you've read it. But the agreement was revised on the basis that from the MinRes side we wanted to get an earlier engagement in the production of lithium hydroxide. I mean the value-add for this lithium product that we're mining both at Wodgina and at Mt. Marion, the best value-add for it is being able to create the lithium hydroxide or carbonate. We think more on the hydroxide side. That's where the real value is. So by just selling spodumene, we're giving away a lot of value. By just selling as we sit here a year or so ago, just selling DSO is even giving away 4x more value. So we want to get to the value-add into the food chain, and we're looking to establish a 50-year type business. So we've achieved that, a great part on Albemarle. They have got huge skillsets, but they're going to be controlling it from a marketing point of view and from the ability for them to produce the design on a high-quality chemical plant, which they're currently building at Kemerton. So we end up owning 40% of that. They also give us a check for $820 million. That all happens 5 days after we get the final approval that we're waiting on from the authorities, and we think that's going to be well before Christmas. So we've had everything we've had out of those approvals. We're waiting on it and being very positive, and so they should be. This adds a lot of value not just to Australia, but it adds value to the world and the quality of the product that we can produce to whoever wants to buy it. So the -- I think a good joint venture, a really good result from us. And I think finally on that too, on both outside and Albemarle's, we have been able to reduce the capital spend going forward, which is important because we want to be able to grow that business in line with market expectations, and that's based on supply/demand. And we need some more time to just understand exactly what that looks like.

Update on our iron ore. We got a couple of projects in the North, Marillana and Kumina. We continue to work on them. We've got a camp at Kumina. We've got people there, we've got them on the ground and we're about to start a fairly decent drilling program out there. On the Marillana iron ore project, we continue to work through and get approvals and to get right-of-way cleared up there for light rail. So all of that is just going through the normal time it takes to get these approvals.

Energy initiatives. As always, we're really committed to reducing our environmental footprint. The most obvious way we can do that is to reduce the reliance that we had on diesel fuel. That's the biggest pollutant we put into the atmosphere, and we need to get to a point where we don't use much diesel somewhere down in the track in the future. We're trying to change over the work where we can with both natural gas and LNG. We've got some battery storage that we keep growing in different areas where we can take spikes out of demand and run less generators. And we've installed solar power in a whole range of areas. So the initiatives we'll just work through and we're finalizing, we'll reduce a further 29,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions from the atmosphere that we're currently pumping into the air. So we'll continue to work on that moving forward.

On the oil and gas front, we've got extensive tenements in the Perth Basin. Some very prospective areas out there. We are involved in stakeholder engagement. We have a plan on what we're doing out there, and we're working through seismic and we hope to -- we're going to drill some holes out there within the next year.

And finally, looking on innovation, just a bit more color around that. We do that because we're continually looking for new ideas so we can get smarter and better at what we do, we can reduce costs. We look for -- at doing that through [painting] technology. And we're also looking to grow our annuity streams. And to do that, we've got to be a bit smarter. We got to paint that ideas, and we've got to have areas where we can create a business with high barriers to entry. And doing that means we're providing a very unique service to our customers. And in a lot of areas, customers that we have out there have explicit trust in us because we run our safety and our equipment extremely well. We take pride in that, and we only want to work with companies and customers that appreciate what you need to do to be able to bring your people home safe and have best safe production.

So the projects we're working through at the moment, as I've said, the Metso crushing plant, going well. The light rail system, it's taken time on that with the third-party verifications for it to go through the design engineering on that and most importantly, to get these approvals done. There's no showstoppers out there. It's all going in the right direction. And we'd like to think it's somewhere down the track in the next 12 months or so we can actually start building something. Carbon fiber, it's going well. We have produced 5 150-tonne dump trucks so far. Two of them are on site running around Koolyanobbing. The other 3 will be there by the end of this month. So we'll have 5 dump trucks continually loading and hauling on those trays. The original manufacturer makes a 31-tonne tray to go on the 150-tonne dump trucks. Those weigh [28.5] tonnes, so we've got an extra 22.5 tonnes that we're hauling on every load that comes out of the pits. The capital cost on these trays has been challenging. We're not near where we need to be on the capital cost of them to make them commercial where we want them to be. We're continuing to work on that. A lot of work to be done on it, but we're getting the results we want from a weight-saving point of view. We are about to start work on the next tray, which is going to be a 200-tonne dump truck tray and greater weight savings again.

Synthetic graphite plant, we've developed that. It's turned out very successful. We were looking for a 92% purity in the graphite, and we've been sitting around 96%. So a great result on that. We're continuing to run that test operation and go through a whole range of different tests to make sure we understand it well, but the next step is to go and try and build a commercial plant.

So I mean I think that pretty much closes it out on the business where we're going. I'm going to -- we'll take some questions now. First, I'd just like to thank the staff of Mineral Resources. It's been a challenging 12 months for them. It's been a tough, tough road to get through all of the challenges we've had in front of us, and they've done it extremely well. We've got a very dedicated, hardworking staff and workforce right across the business. We've been up around 3,500 people and they've all pulled their weight extremely well.

Our results this year also reflect the strategic directions and decisions that have been put in place over the years. We're being able to be more consistent on what we're being able to do. We're growing those operations, and I need to thank our Board for the guidance and support they've given. We've got a very, very strong Board and very diverse Board that understands our business very well.

And then finally, a lot of work has been done internally and by the Board and our Rem Committee around the remuneration structure. You know we're becoming famous for being the most voted down company on the ASX, and we are working very hard to try and turn that around. We've been engaged with the proxy advisers, we've redone everything, and we have reduced my base salary. So I'm now working for a lot less, which I'm happy to do. And out of all of that, we need yes votes. So if you could all just vote yes, I'd be eternally grateful. If you don't, I'll come back to you with another discussion.

So thanks, everyone. Thanks for your support. Thanks for buying our shares. We'd like to see you buy more. But now we'll open up for some questions.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) Your first question today comes from Rahul Anand with Morgan Stanley.

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Rahul Anand, Morgan Stanley, Research Division - Equity Analyst [2]

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Chris and team, thanks for the opportunity. Considering it's only one question at a time, I might take the longer one then. In terms of the iron ore assets, firstly, you did talk a bit about how you might get 6 years at the 11.5 million tonne per annum. If you can emphasize on when some results are perhaps expected out of the resource.

And then sticking with the iron ore business, how are we thinking about these costs basically rising at this point in time? Achieved prices are at about $120. We did about $75 for the year. If iron ore price comes back, I mean, how do we think about past FY '20 these costs going forward, both Iron Valley and Koolyanobbing really?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [3]

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Yes. Look, Koolyanobbing, you're looking at low tonnes on startup. So you know those initial startup costs are always higher than you'd like but necessary. Obviously, in the commodities business, Rahul, the more tonnes you get out of those fixed assets, the better we can do. Others like rail and port and the like they are all fixed per tonne, but that cost, we think, we'll be able to work on them certainly down in the Yilgarn region. The Iron Valley is much tougher. I mean we run that operation fairly lean and mean. Now our cost of ore onto a road train out there is extremely low on any standard. We just had that problem, mine gate to port, that big cost, that's a bit of a killer. I think I've often quoted that as $25 to $27 a tonne. So you need -- you add that to all of those other bits and it's a bit hard. So that one always remains on the cusp but isn't saying that will keep going a long time. But I think the short answer is don't expect any cost reductions in the north until we can put it on rail. And we're working on that, and we're going to get there. Down in the south, we'll be chipping away at those, and there's a few areas down there that we can get some savings. But remembering that the quality of the ore that we've got in the south is a little bit better as well. The lump volumes ratio mix is pretty good. And overall, I mean, I don't see any issues with that Yilgarn business.

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Operator [4]

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Your next question comes from [Victor S. Malevich] with -- who is a private investor.

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Unidentified Participant, [5]

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Gentlemen, very appreciative for that presentation. Can I ask you, please, what is your average cost of production per tonne for the iron ore? And how much of your revenues in total, percentage terms, does the iron ore constitute?

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [6]

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The average cost, we summarized in the deck. It's about $75 roughly per tonne. And as Chris said, we expect that cost to stay there or thereabouts, possibly go up, up to 5% on Iron Valley. There'll be a marginal cost increase out of Koolyanobbing as a result of the additional third-party equipment that we'll need to ramp up to the 11.5 million tonnes. We do get to spread those tonnes over a -- that increased number of tonnes over the fixed base. But we're also moving the tonnes from further distance as well. So also there area range of variables there that lead us to that outcome.

In terms of our revenue, well, it changes. I mean iron ore is off again today, so it's very difficult to give a sense as to what that will be going forward. But in terms of metrics, we're talking about 8 million to 9 million tonnes of export this year out of Koolyanobbing and less than that out of Iron Valley. And then we've realized about AUD 90 on average, taking into account all the discounts and so on based on where iron ore was over the last year. So you can do that math. You'll get 90 tonnes by the 16 million-or-so tonnes, about it's over $1 billion production in iron ore.

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Operator [7]

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Your next question comes from Rahul Anand with Morgan Stanley.

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Rahul Anand, Morgan Stanley, Research Division - Equity Analyst [8]

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Back again. Sorry, Chris, I didn't get the answer for the first one also relating to the mine life at Kooly and how we're thinking about that.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [9]

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Right. Sorry. Okay. Look, we're working through at the moment -- sorry.

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Rahul Anand, Morgan Stanley, Research Division - Equity Analyst [10]

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Sorry, go ahead.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [11]

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What I quoted in terms of life-of-mine down there, that was some loose statement. I mean we've gone through down there, obviously, through mine planning, and we've had a good look at all of the deposits we've got down in that region between both the newly acquired Cliffs assets and the Carina assets, if you like, that we used to have down there. So we'd bunch them together. We've just recently gone down the path where we're moving to acquire the Parker Range deposit, and we're working through those -- some other, let's say, blue sky even beyond what I'm talking about in that region. So we've sort of mapped out where they are, but what -- we'll be able to release not too far down the track a bit of a road map that sets that out.

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Rahul Anand, Morgan Stanley, Research Division - Equity Analyst [12]

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Okay. Understood. And if we could then move to Mt. Marion perhaps. Just wanted to understand, I mean, next year's production, obviously lower than this year. Perhaps a bit of sort of plant alignment once you've -- going on once you set up the 100%, 6% product and also the water studies, like you mentioned. Beyond sort of FY '20, are we still looking at a run rate of around that 450,000 mark or 6% for Mt. Marion or is there a bit of a change there?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [13]

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No. I think it's going to be closer to 400,000. There's a change down there, and there's a balance between our ambitions and reality, let's say. The whole thing is capable of 450,000, but the cost of supplying the water and the path to generate the water to get the diesel running and that whole balance, it's less than 450,000. It's probably 380,000 to 400,000. So yes, it's been a difficult process down there trying to find that water and then keep it near and try and keep it clean. It's been challenging. So hence the reason, I mean, that we would pull back.

And then secondly, there is a supply/demand issue sitting out there at the moment as well across the plant, as you know. So we don't want to oversupply our offtake partner. And they also -- they have a plant that they set up some time ago, and they really got to like that 4%. And they've asked us to keep producing that to them in the short to medium term. So there's no definitive answer. I can't tell you how long it's going to last. They're enjoying it at the moment. They're doing well off it. So the 4% we will keep going. We probably won't go beyond 400,000 tonnes. And we hope to have all that sort of finalized down there by around about Christmas that, that's been -- it should finish down there. It's not significant, but it's just you got to do one thing before you get to the next. So I hope that gives you a bit more clarity.

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Operator [14]

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Your next question comes from Michael Murphy with Perpetual.

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Michael Murphy;Perpetual Limited;High Yield Analyst, [15]

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I was wondering if I could just get some color on how the cash that will be raised from the Wodgina sale will be used. So if it'll be sort of kept on the balance sheet or if it will be used to sort of pay dividends or pay down debt.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [16]

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No. We're going to bank it and invest it. We're hoping to continue to get that 18% return for our shareholders. I hate to give it back to them at the moment and let them have to put it in the bank at 1%. Mark, do you want to add to that?

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [17]

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Michael, it's Mark. Thanks for the question. We've been clear all the way along that the proceeds from the sale will be used to reinvest into other business. We've got a range of opportunities in front of us. We'll be disciplined with it. We're not going to rush into it. As Chris said, we've got a strong track record that we can point on to being able to apply capital well, and we see significant opportunity in the market today in front of us. So we'll be investing it.

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Operator [18]

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Your next question comes from Joshua Tan with ICBM Capital.

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Joshua Tan;ICBM Capital;Chief Investment Officer, [19]

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Can I just ask about transport and freight cost because that's actually come down quite significantly from your previous results, right? And you guys, you've averaged about sometimes more than 30 percentage points of revenue, but now it's down 24. So can I ask whether that's -- well, how that happened and whether that's sustainable going forward?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [20]

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We might have to get back to youon that. I haven't seen that come down, no. I...

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [21]

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I think the answer will be that the transportation cost for Koolyanobbing is significantly less than it is on the road out of Iron Valley. So what's happened, Joshua -- sorry, it's Mark, what's happened, of course, is through the year, for the first time, we started producing out of Koolyanobbing over this half, and that's put 3.5 million, 3.25 million tonnes through the port down south. And the rail cost of transportation down there is significantly less than the...

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [22]

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Road trains.

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [23]

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Than the road trains up in Iron Valley where we're paying $25 per tonne. So I think that will be the answer, I believe.

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Operator [24]

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Your next question comes from [James Christmas Douglas Hansen] with J C D Hansen Super Fund (sic) [The J C D HANSEN SUPERANNUATION FUND].

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Unidentified Analyst, [25]

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Chris and all, I'd compliment you on your good work and the excellent results you're producing. Let's move -- stick to the 90% purity in your graphite. Do you see a future for this in some battery operation or perhaps in relation to your own activities using batteries from solar power to obviate a lot of diesel and other -- even natural gas usage?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [26]

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Yes. Look, I mean, I think that we see the value of the graphite just as a product that we can sell to our battery-making customers, and that would probably -- we'd be probably working with Albemarle on that. More importantly, though, with that product, hydrogen is the byproduct that comes off that plant, and what we're trying to do is we're trying to develop cleaner sources of fuel. So if we can put these commercial plants on remote sites, produce high-quality graphite, synthetic graphite that we can sell to our customers. It's not a big transport cost because it's not big volumes. But the byproduct of that being hydrogen, if we can initially feed that into our power stations, deliver clean-burning fuel, it's sort of all going down a path of where we want to head to. So reducing costs, making high-quality product and reducing our carbon footprint, and all of that reduce costs. So that's the plan on where we're heading.

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Operator [27]

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Your next question comes from Stuart McKinnon with The West Australian.

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Stuart McKinnon;The West Australian;Mining Reporter, [28]

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I just wanted to get your thoughts, Chris, around the plans for Parker Range which you announced yesterday you had struck a deal to take control of. Is the plan to bring that into production as soon as possible? Or is it more of a sort of a land banking exercise to extend the life of Koolyanobbing?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [29]

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No. It's just -- look, I mean, down in that region, there are pots of ore sort of scattered across quite a radius. And look, we're just simply looking at what deposits that we can add to our hub, our processing hub that works. And it also gives some daily -- some income. But we can blend that product in with our current operations, and it just simply extends the life of our operations down in that region. So, I mean -- but we're looking at a range of those down there as well, not just that one. So if we can blend the products. It's not just a quality blend, but it's also a cost blend. So if we can get outlying ore with closer ore and get our average price to something that's economic and we can keep that operation running down there, we might be able to -- we're confident we can go more than 6 years in that region.

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Operator [30]

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(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from Brad Thompson with The Australian Financial Review.

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Brad Thompson;The Australian Financial Review;Reporter, [31]

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Chris, just wondering about the economics of sending spodumene down from Wodgina to Kemerton. Is that something that you're having a look at? And would that prove effective?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [32]

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Yes. Yes. Look, there's a range of ways you're getting it down, not just on track. We're very pleased with the large support in the world. We're working out what the best economic ways of doing that, and we'll work that over the next 6-or-so months, Brad. But getting from selling spod to being able to produce hydroxide from a Mineral Resources point of view was the most important thing. So I'm not quite sure.

If you stand back and have a look at what Mineral Resources sort of ended up with, I mean, we're a mining services business, geographically spread. We've got a reasonable little portfolio of iron ore assets that we work very hard to make good money out of, that we achieve it year-on-year. And if you have a look at the lithium business, we've got a 50-50 JV with a 20- to 30-year mine life down at Mt. Marion, very good partner in Ganfeng. That's forever going to go offshore and be processed, and we've got a 40% share of the Wodgina and the Kemerton sites. So that was our aim, to get that lithium business that fits in Mineral Resources to about the right size. I didn't want to have all of Wodgina because that put us really overweight in that lithium.

But I also wanted to make sure about having the skillset of Albemarle with their processing background. They're out there running a number of hydroxide plants and they've got a very long reach on marketing. So we're part of all of that. That's the big picture. The detail on how we move this stuff around, we'll come up with the right answers on that. That's not an issue. So it'll work. But we've got other options.

Building at Wodgina, it's an option going forward. Building somewhere else is an option going forward. So I think that we're simply sitting here on the cash with a lot of opportunity on how to develop this downstream processing around the whole gas storage market, and that is one of our many opportunities. And we've got a balance sheet to do that.

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Operator [33]

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Your next question comes from [Brandon Waller] with [Interlink].

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Unidentified Analyst, [34]

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Chris, I think in your opening remarks you mentioned some costs around Mt. Marion, and I'm starting to have a question. I think you're talking about CapEx. So I might have missed what you said the cost outlook given the guidance on tonnes. Last year, it was (inaudible) I think it was high $500s per tonne. What are you thinking about this year in terms of cost at Mt. Marion?

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [35]

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It's Mark. Really, I think, in the deck, we said that we expect costs to be similar to the year that had just passed.

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Unidentified Analyst, [36]

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Okay. Told you I missed that. Thanks for updating me.

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [37]

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No problem.

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Operator [38]

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Your next question from Michael Murphy with Perpetual.

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Michael Murphy;Perpetual Limited;High Yield Analyst, [39]

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I just wanted to get some color around why there was a change in the split in the Wodgina JV from 50-50 to 40-60?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [40]

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Yes. There was -- Mineral Resources wanted to get to the hydrogen...

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [41]

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Hydroxide.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [42]

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Hydroxide production much, much quicker than where we were heading. We wanted the value in that conversion, that downstream conversion. Both us and Albemarle wanted to make sure that we manage their capital spend going forward, and we had a look at ways of being able to do that. We've achieved a significant saving on CapEx over the next 2 to 3 years. And we wanted the technology that Albemarle brought with them. We wanted to be part of that very quickly. So those are the -- we've achieved all of those results that we wanted to. And sitting where we are with a 40% shareholding in that joint venture and a 50% shareholding in Mt. Marion, we're thought to be in a -- or we're sitting where we want to probably with lithium exposure.

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [43]

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And Michael, it's Mark. If I can add to that. It's a 30-plus year opportunity for us, as Chris had said, 30-plus year investment. And very clearly, Albemarle had the strength in the downstreaming and the marketing, and it makes sense for them to take that senior role in the JV for that reason over that time frame.

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Operator [44]

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Our next question come from Joshua Tan with ICBM Capital.

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Joshua Tan;ICBM Capital;Chief Investment Officer, [45]

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Just want to go back to the Wodgina, the JV with Albemarle at Wodgina. Because after the new 60-40 agreement, you guys kind of put plans to build hydroxide plants at Wodgina on the back burner. However, given the immense value add that can be had from converting spodumene to hydroxide, wouldn't it make sense to actually not put that on the back burner and go ahead with it? Because also some very credible research houses are forecasting that hydroxide could be in short supply by 2021. And if you start now, you'll be just in time.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [46]

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Yes. Now look, good question. But that investment opportunity has to compete with other investment opportunities we got. And then when we weigh them all up, we are looking at a sure thing versus a risk. So we put it on the risk/reward scale, and we don't have enough confidence in any commodity to try and forecast where it's going to land that far out when you've got that sort of CapEx you're putting out the door. So the CapEx on -- at Wodgina or in any hydroxide plant is significant. So it's just a risk/reward. We think that we can give our shareholders a better return over the next couple of years going forward than take that sort of a gamble. We've got a couple of opportunities that are more significant, if you like.

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Operator [47]

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Your next question comes from Peter Bell with Bellmont Securities.

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Peter Bell, Bellmont Securities - Co-Founder and Director [48]

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Thanks. I think good question. Just keen on a little bit more color around BOSS. Do you still have plans to build a test track for that? And is that -- well, what sort of time line for that? And also, you've mentioned previously there have been some interest from some third party for some shorter lines. So wondering on that progress. And finally, I know you were speaking previously about having a stand on its own sort of fleet from a capital perspective. Is that still your plan? And are you still sort of looking at a little bit of a runaround to speak to some people about the capital on that? And if so, when?

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [49]

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Okay. Good question. So BOSS yes, we had a fairly significant meeting on that yesterday. It's very front and center. The time line that it has taken for third-party verification engineering sign-off has taken significantly longer than we expected. I'm starting to feel like we've just developed a Boeing 737X but without the crashes. But the time line on this has certainly kicked out quite a bit, so we are -- right now we're developing all of the parts that we need. We're going out to order for the test track. The test track land has been sitting there for some time and it's ready to go. So that's on the horizon out. We were hoping we would actually be starting on that. So we're even -- about 6 weeks further behind on building the test track than we expected, but it's all moving in that direction. And yes, we're doing preliminary work in terms of funding. So how would we go out and fund that? And we've always told the market we're not going to use any money that we get from the business from our Wodgina site or the like. That will be standalone. We'll present that to our shareholders with a business case on it. That's a separate item when the time comes. And we have done quite a bit of work on how we'll fund that in terms of partnerships and standalone funding going forward. And look, the answer of that is -- it's progressing well. We see it as critical to our business, our Commodities business in remote locations from 2 points. One is that some of the deposits that are available to us, we've got to be able to get them from mine site to the coast. That's what defines the bigger businesses with big commodity projects where they can get them to the coast at low cost. So it's one of the biggest goals that Mineral Resources has got in its sights. And yes, there are other opportunities out there with third parties that would like us to install that service, but we can't until we get these other processes complete sign-off, and we have to run the test track to make sure that we verify all of the engineering work that's been done.

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Operator [50]

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Your next question comes from Rahul Anand with Morgan Stanley.

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Rahul Anand, Morgan Stanley, Research Division - Equity Analyst [51]

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I just want to touch on Mining Services for a minute, please, if I can. Thanks for that extra information. It is genuinely greatly appreciated. One of the slides for this year talked about how the EBITDA this year in a sustainable sense was around $216 million. And then on top of that, you had the construction revenues of around -- whatever made up the difference, which is about $60 million, $65 million. What I wanted to understand was going into sort of next year, FY '20, and '21, as those construction revenues decline, how do we think about the sustainable business itself? And how should we think about that from a modeling perspective? Obviously, Wodgina is going to be there. Iron ore, you're talking about some expansions. And then also, I wanted to understand if there's anything additional from Mt. Marion.

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [52]

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Rahul, it's Mark. Thanks for the question. So making sure that I understand the question correctly, that essentially, in years past going back 2013, '14, those sorts of years, we did some construction work for external clients, and we included that margin in the earnings for that division back then. Going forward today and so on, the only real impact on the Mining Services results from the construction of -- effectively the overhead costs and the costs associated with construction. So we construct for ourselves at cost. We don't play with margin or anything like that. So in terms of the go-forward for guidance for Mining Services which we've got in the deck, that is excluding construction. There might be a small element of historical overheads associated with that but nothing that you should really allow for in your thinking. So I think if you took that number or that range that we've got in the deck, $280 million to $300 million, as a guide, then that's where you'd want to start.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [53]

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I think, too, if I could just add to that, construction is not a profit center for us. Look, in the past, we've built some plants for selected clients under a special arrangement that, generally speaking, our construction division is really proprietary information that we have and we only use that internally for our own benefit to build our own crushing process and beneficiation and most recently our lithium plants. So it's not a profit center. They just take the capital and turn it into an operating plant where we retain that IP and -- but it's not a profit. We're not building plants externally anymore for clients.

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Mark G. Wilson, Mineral Resources Limited - CFO & Company Secretary [54]

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We are happy to take it offline with you, Rahul, and just to understand where you're getting your numbers wrong, make sure that we're squared away. But as Chris said, it's a cost center.

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Operator [55]

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There are no further questions at this time. I'll now hand back to Mr. Ellison for closing remarks.

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Christopher James Ellison, Mineral Resources Limited - MD & Director [56]

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Okay. Look, thanks very much, Ashley.

Thanks, everyone, for joining us, and I hope that we are presenting the information in a way where you can take it and you can do something meaningful with it. We're working hard on being able to do that and have a more open dialogue with everyone. We -- if you have any questions on any of the issues, more than happy if you want to come back to us separately. But look, thanks for joining us. We're on the roadshow in Sydney on Monday and Melbourne on Tuesday, so I look forward to catching up with you out there, and we'll be able to explain a little more detail when we get there. So thanks for joining us and good afternoon.