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Edited Transcript of MITT earnings conference call or presentation 12-Jun-20 12:30pm GMT

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Q1 2020 AG Mortgage Investment Trust Inc Earnings Call New York Jul 6, 2020 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of AG Mortgage Investment Trust Inc earnings conference call or presentation Friday, June 12, 2020 at 12:30:00pm GMT TEXT version of Transcript ================================================================================ Corporate Participants ================================================================================ * Brian Chad Sigman AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer * David Nathan Roberts AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President * Raul Enrique Moreno AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - General Counsel & Secretary * Thomas J. Durkin AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director ================================================================================ Conference Call Participants ================================================================================ * Brad Golding;Christofferson Robb;Analyst * Douglas Michael Harter Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Director * Eric J. Hagen Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst * Jason Michael Stewart JonesTrading Institutional Services, LLC, Research Division - Senior VP & Financial Services Analyst * Trevor John Cranston JMP Securities LLC, Research Division - Director & Equity Research Analyst ================================================================================ Presentation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good morning, and welcome to the AG Mortgage Investment Trust First Quarter 2020 Earnings Call. My name is Brandon, and I'll be your operator for today. (Operator Instructions) Please note, this conference is being recorded. And I will now turn it over to Raul Moreno. You may begin, sir. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raul Enrique Moreno, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - General Counsel & Secretary [2] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Brandon. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the First Quarter 2020 Earnings Call for AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. Before we begin, please note that the information discussed on today's conference call may contain forward-looking statements. Any forward-looking statements made during today's call are subject to certain risks and uncertainties, which are outlined in the Risk Factors and MD&A sections of our most recent SEC filings. The company's actual results may differ materially from these statements. We encourage you to read the disclosure regarding forward-looking statements contained in our earnings release, in our earnings presentation and in our SEC filings. During the call today, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Please refer to our SEC filings for reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP measures. We will also reference the earnings presentation that was posted to our website this morning. To view the slide presentation, turn to our website, www.agmit.com and click on the Q1 2020 Earnings Presentation link on the homepage. Again, welcome, and thank you for joining us today. With that, I would like to turn the call over to our CEO, David Roberts. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Raul. Good morning. The initial stages of the COVID crisis in March disrupted the markets in every aspect of AG MITT's portfolio. Normal 2-way markets evaporated, in securities and whole loans, both residential and commercial and even in Agency RMBS. The small number of trades that did take place were from the most distressed sellers and represented prices that were at huge discounts from previous levels. The reaction of our repo lenders was swift. MITT began to receive a rising tide of margin calls. We met the calls for as long as we prudently could using a portion of our cash reserves and selling those assets we believed were the least worst to sell, most notably, our portfolio of Agency RMBS. At a certain point, however, the margin calls became overwhelming. Accordingly, we announced that we would not meet margin calls and instead would seek a forbearance agreement from our repo lenders. Most of our largest repo lenders agreed, a few elected, to season sell our collateral. As detailed in our many 8-K filings, we negotiated 3 forbearance agreements. In order to induce our repo lenders to agree to the forbearances, our manager, a direct, wholly-owned subsidiary of Angelo Gordon, made 2 $10 million subordinated loans as a key element of the negotiations. As well, MITT's manager also agreed to defer payments of both its management fees and expense reimbursements until September 30 of this year. We are pleased to announce that we exited forbearance 2 days ago and reinstated bilateral agreements with all our current lenders. Immediately prior to and during the 2-month period of our forbearance, we sold the majority of our assets, paid off the related financing and consolidated our remaining repo arrangements down to 6 lenders. We did this so we could meet the previously unmet margin calls, and so we could exit forbearance. After these sales, MITT has a much smaller portfolio with lower leverage. We also made substantial progress in settling deficiency claims with those lenders who had seized and sold collateral. In downsizing our portfolio, mostly during a time of severe dislocation in our markets, MITT took substantial losses. The company began the year with a common equity book value of $17.61 per share. As we reported in our May 7 8-K, we estimated that our common book value per share as of April 30 was in a range from $1.80 per share to $1.90 per share. I note that the majority of our losses have been realized through sales. Based on our preliminary internal analysis, we estimate that our common book value per share as of May 31 was in a range not substantially higher than it was on April 30. Going forward, we anticipate continuing to raise liquidity and reducing debt through selected asset sales. Based on current conditions for our company, we do not anticipate paying dividends on either our common or preferred stock for the foreseeable future. We are evaluating various go-forward plans for our business. Whatever strategy we choose, we will work hard to improve book value per share. That effort will take time, creativity and the cooperation of the markets. Thank you for listening and I'll now turn the call over to T.J. Durkin. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [4] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, David. I'll briefly walk you through the portfolio on March 31 and where it stood as of May 31. Prior to March, January and February were somewhat ordinary months in terms of MITT managing the investment portfolio. In February, MITT, along with other Angelo Gordon managed funds, priced its fourth non-QM securitization. However, as the fears of COVID made their way into the U.S. domestic markets, even the most liquid asset classes, such as treasuries, began to experience extreme price volatility, and more importantly, started losing their normal deep liquidity. This quickly crossed over into the even CMBS market as the basis widened to levels not seen since the GFC, but also began having liquidity evaporate in the market as well. This all happened very quickly, and unfortunately, we were forced to sell our entire agency book in late March in order to delever and raise liquidity as our credit assets were completely illiquid. Ultimately, the Fed had to step into the fixed income and repo funding markets multiple times throughout the course of March to stabilize the plumbing of the fixed income markets. And by late April, the Agency market had largely returned to normal. Turning to our presentation on Page 7. We had a fair value of approximately $1.6 billion as of 3/31, representing 3.3 turns of economic leverage. The portfolio was approximately 82% residential and 18% commercial. After the sale of our Agency whole pools, we removed all of our interest rate hedges, and that positioning remains true today. As David mentioned, post quarter end, we continued to delever our portfolio in an orderly fashion and build liquidity. Since quarter end, the broader markets and structured credit markets has started to recover, and we are continuing to see asset prices improve in the secondary market and seeing the new issue market return as well. As of 5/31, we see an investment portfolio of approximately $1 billion, comprised of 78% residential and 22% commercial. With this portfolio, we expect to run around a turn of recourse leverage. Our liquidity of cash and cash equivalents was approximately $45 million at that point. Looking ahead, we will continue to look towards securitization to obtain term nonrecourse financing for our whole loan investments as the debt markets remain open. With regards to the underlying fundamentals, early data of post-COVID mortgage payments indicate residential delinquency and forbearance numbers are performing in line to slightly better than industry estimates, but we note, there is still a long way to go. We believe the story in commercial real estate will take much longer to play out as there is much more idiosyncratic risk among the different industries comprising commercial real estate securities. Lastly, our mortgage-originator Arc Home is taking advantage of the rally in mortgage rates and is currently on pace for record origination volume in the second quarter. I'll turn the call over to Brian. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [5] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks, T.J. Overall, for the fourth quarter, we reported a net loss to common stockholders of $490 million or $14.98 per fully diluted share. Our book value decreased from $17.61 at December 31 to $2.63 at March 31. Total stockholder equity decreased by 58% in the first quarter. The losses were primarily a result of the global pandemic associated with COVID-19 and the drastic pause on financial and mortgage-related asset markets. We do not disclose core earnings for the first quarter of 2020. We determined that this measure, as we have historically calculated it, did not appropriately reflect the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on our results. As financial markets stabilize, we will evaluate whether core earnings or other non-GAAP financial measures would help both management and investors evaluate our operating performance for future periods. The duress on markets caused a decrease in the prices of our assets as well as increased margin calls from our financing counterparties. In order to satisfy these margin calls, we sold a portion of our investment portfolio, resulting in a reduction of our economic leverage ratio from 4.1x at December 31 to 3.3x at March 31. Additionally, we've lowered the number of counterparties we had debt outstanding with from 30 as of December 31 to 18 as of March 31. In the second quarter, we continued to delever our balance sheet, restructure our debt and consolidate our counterparties. As part of the restructuring, we were able to reduce our recourse debt and then exited forbearance with only 6 lenders who we will look to partner with in the future. At May 31, we had liquidity of approximately $45 million, comprised entirely of cash and cash equivalents. That concludes our prepared remarks, and we'd now like to open the call for questions. Operator? ================================================================================ Questions and Answers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [1] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Operator Instructions) And from Crédit Suisse, we have Doug Harter. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Douglas Michael Harter, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Director [2] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was just wondering if you could talk about kind of what were the conditions that kind of led to being able to get out from forbearance 2 days ago and kind of what -- if there are any other concessions that you had to make to get out of forbearance? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [3] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- T.J.? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [4] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, sure, Doug. I mean, it was a combination of multiple factors. I mean we were delevering the portfolio throughout March up until this month. We are building liquidity that way. We -- as David mentioned -- or Brian mentioned, condensed the lenders, which also made just operationally exiting much easier. And lastly, to some extent, the market coming back, obviously also helped as well. So it was a combination of all those things. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Douglas Michael Harter, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Director [5] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Got it. And then you mentioned that you would sort of look to continue to kind of reduce assets and delevers, any sense of the magnitude that you would be looking there? Or kind of where the portfolio size might be able to stabilize? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [6] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. I don't think at this point, we're ready to say where a stable, long-term, run rate size or leverage ratio is. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Douglas Michael Harter, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Director [7] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- All right. And then lastly for me, do you have ability to issue all of the ATM given that you're trading well above book value? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [8] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Douglas Michael Harter, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Director [9] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you have the ability to use the at-the-market equity issuance program, given that you guys are trading well above book value? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [10] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We have up until now really been focused on getting out of forbearance and then presenting this and afterwards, we'll review all the different options that are available to us. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [11] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From KBW, we have Eric Hagen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [12] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'll start with one on the asset side. On the current portfolio, even to reflect any mark-to-market changes just during the first couple of weeks in June, can you just give us a breakdown of what the portfolio looks like right now? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [13] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, sure. I mean, listen, at a high level, June has been a constructive month in the market. I think we laid out, just at a high level, the breakdown between residential and commercial. I don't think we have anything prepared in terms of the sub-asset classes to update you at this point for 5/31. We broke it out for quarter end. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [14] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. I mean it would be helpful, I guess, to see just a general sense between securities and loans on the resi and commercial side. I realize that you want to be -- you can't comment, I guess, at the end of May, but is there any kind of indication or breakdown that you can sort of guide us to? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [15] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We don't have that prepared now. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [16] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think, Eric, in the 10-Q, you will be able to see a little bit -- you'll obviously see more detail on that 3/31 from the subsequent events. So there will be probably, especially with the large residential loan sale that we've talked about and announced, I think, you'll be able to make its way a little bit better than just from the presentation that we posted in the earnings release. And we're going to file that later today. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [17] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would say as well, Eric, that we're trying to be transparent, but we're also trying not to give any sort of -- set any sort of precedent in terms of the details that we're going to be disseminating between quarters. So I'm sure you can appreciate that. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [18] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I can appreciate that. Did you say that your Q is going to be filed this afternoon? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [19] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes, and that's the expectation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [20] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. One or two on the repo side and the reinstatement there. What are the assets that are currently being funded on repo? And are all of those subject to daily mark-to-market margin calls? And what's the funding cost that you expect on the reinstated repo? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [21] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure. I mean, so we have a combination of loan warehouses as well as just regular way security repo, the majority of them are daily mark-to-market. There isn't one funding rate between the different asset types or the (technical difficulty) that's returned to somewhat regular way business on that side. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [22] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. But does most of the repo apply to the resi credit portfolio? Or is the bulk of that really in the commercial portfolio? And what about the mark-to-market -- the frequency of mark-to-market margin? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [23] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. So it's daily mark-to-market. And we do have residential and commercial securities as well as residential and commercial whole loans on facilities. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [24] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From JMP Securities, we have Trevor Cranston. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trevor John Cranston, JMP Securities LLC, Research Division - Director & Equity Research Analyst [25] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A follow-up on the question on the remaining repo facilities. We've seen some peer companies move towards establishing non-mark-to-market, longer-term financing facilities for their assets. Can you guys say if that is something you're intending to explore as you go forward and now that you're out of forbearance? Or if you're comfortable with the remaining repo being something that you think could continue to remain in place for a fairly long period of time? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [26] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No. I think that is something we definitely will continue to pursue on the whole loan side, where it's probably a bit more practical than on the securities side, at least, based on what we're seeing and hearing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Trevor John Cranston, JMP Securities LLC, Research Division - Director & Equity Research Analyst [27] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. Got you. And I think in the prepared remarks, you mentioned that you had done a significant amount of work settling deficiency claims. Can you just clarify if there are any remaining outstanding deficiency claims from repo lenders that weren't in the forbearance agreement? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thomas J. Durkin, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CIO & Director [28] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. There -- we solved what we believe to be the majority of them, but we do have 2 outstanding deficiency claims. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [29] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. And they came up later after the quarter. So when you see the Q, you'll see that. The 2 that we settled are -- were taken into kind of book value at March 31. And then the 2 that remain are still open, and they were accrued for in our kind of estimate that we put forth at April 30 to our best guesses to what we think it will be. Obviously, we disclosed that it was a part -- there were estimates in there. But the April 30 book value is reflective of what we think would take to settle those. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [30] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Jones Trading, we have Jason Stewart. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Michael Stewart, JonesTrading Institutional Services, LLC, Research Division - Senior VP & Financial Services Analyst [31] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I appreciate there's a lot of complexity in this, but the $1.80 to $1.90 range is post $4.30, does that include the pretty substantial loan sale that was executed? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [32] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Yes. It was -- we -- at that point, the way those types of loans settle, you kind of enter into the agreement, which, I think, we actually filed at the time. But then you -- the buyer has a chance to due diligence that takes some time, but you kind of agree on the price in advance. So at that point, we knew what the sales price would be, maybe subject to a little fallout to the extent there was. But we were able to take that into account. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Michael Stewart, JonesTrading Institutional Services, LLC, Research Division - Senior VP & Financial Services Analyst [33] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. So that book value range includes -- your estimate for settlement on the forbearance, it includes loan sale and any other portfolio items that you've already executed or had planned on executing? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [34] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I mean, obviously, this seemed a lot. There was a lot of assumptions that were baked into it. It was off-cycle. It was end of the month as opposed to end of the quarter. But we -- to the best of our knowledge and -- at the time, what we knew, definitely went into there. So to the extent we knew we were selling something a couple of days later at a certain price, we certainly would have marked it into that number at that price. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [35] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Christofferson Robb, we have Brad Golding. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Golding;Christofferson Robb;Analyst, [36] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm just looking at the slide on the income statement. And there's still about $4.5 million of kind of operational expenses. The net asset value of the common clearly can't support that kind of expense base and the ratio of preferreds to common and is obviously clearly out of whack here. I know you didn't want to answer the question about capital raise going forward. But is this a viable entity? Is it time to just shut this down or return the capital to shareholders? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [37] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's David Roberts. I'll take that. We -- as we said, I'd repeat 2 comments, I guess, in response to that good question. One is our focus first has been to exit forbearance. And to do that, as we've detailed, we had to take a number of steps with the portfolio in terms of reducing it and reducing our repo leverage. So that really has been the focus over the past few months. We are, as I said in my prepared remarks, evaluating various go-forward plans for the business. And we really could not do that until we were out of forbearance. Now that we're out of forbearance, we'll be looking at all the various options. And we'll certainly communicate to the market once we've determined the best strategy for our shareholders. So it's a good question, but a preliminary one at this point. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brad Golding;Christofferson Robb;Analyst, [38] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. Just I'm somewhat concerned about the lack of structural support for the preferreds. And now that the market appears to be somewhat stable, I would think you would have to make these decisions fairly quickly to either raise capital or pull the plug. Because obviously, there's -- I don't want to sound preachy or anything, but clearly, there's an existential crisis for the entity and it either has to grow or protect the remaining value for shared and preferred holders. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [39] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From KBW, we have a follow-up from Eric Hagen. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [40] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Can you just remind us of the percentage of the affiliates that you guys own? I think for Arc Home, if I remember correctly, it's slightly less than half, is your ownership stake. But I think it's Red Creek in the remainder of the affiliates. Can you remind us what your ownership stake is there? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [41] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sure. It's Brian. So Arc Home, as we've talked about our mortgage originator, obviously, they have been quite busy. We at MITT own, I think, slightly under 50% of that entity. The rest of the entities owned by other funds that are managed by Angelo Gordon. And to your second question on Red Creek, Red Creek is actually a subsidiary of our manager, Angelo Gordon. And they just service residential mortgage loans for an asset management fee. So to the extent that we have residential mortgage loans at MITT, we would use them to service those fees. And MITT does not own any percentage of Red Creek. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eric J. Hagen, Keefe, Bruyette, & Woods, Inc., Research Division - Analyst [42] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay. And can you remind us the amount of your ownership that shows up for Arc Home is essentially the net asset value with your -- of your share of the net asset value of Arc Home. Is that correct? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian Chad Sigman, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - CFO & Treasurer [43] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes. Yes, that's right, Eric. So the -- I think we -- it's about $20 million or so was the value at 3/31. And that's just like anything else that we own in conjunction with anybody else, we would only pick up our share of that value. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [44] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think, operator, we have -- we're almost at the top of the hour. But if there's a quick -- we see there's a quick follow-up from Jason Stewart. So go ahead for the last question. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [45] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jason Michael Stewart, JonesTrading Institutional Services, LLC, Research Division - Senior VP & Financial Services Analyst [46] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brian, just to go back to book value, I completely appreciate the intra-quarter and then the nature of the estimates that you're putting into these, but not substantially higher than that range, including all the things that have happened, including exiting forbearance or loan sale, it leaves a lot of room for people to guess what it is lower. Is there any more detail you could provide us in terms of walking us maybe 1 or 2 big points to center around a new estimate for book value? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- David Nathan Roberts, AG Mortgage Investment Trust, Inc. - Chairman of the Board, CEO & President [47] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We -- I'm going to answer that question. It's David. We purposely did not give a range to come up with a range that we feel comfortable with. It takes a lot of estimating and we simply did not have the time to do that with all the moving pieces on the portfolio. So what we wanted to signal, and we chose our words carefully, was exactly what we did, that the range was not substantially higher. And that's what we felt comfortable saying based on the estimating that we were able to do. Okay. Well, thank you, everyone. If your questions weren't answered, you can reach out and ask your questions in terms of calling our Investor Relations number. So thank you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Operator [48] -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.