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Edited Transcript of PBH.AX earnings conference call or presentation 27-Jul-20 11:30pm GMT

Q4 2020 Pointsbet Holdings Ltd Earnings Call

Sep 2, 2020 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Pointsbet Holdings Ltd earnings conference call or presentation Monday, July 27, 2020 at 11:30:00pm GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Andrew J. Mellor

PointsBet Holdings Limited - CFO

* Samuel J. Swanell

PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director

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Conference Call Participants

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* Alice Li

Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst

* Damien Williamson

Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Fixed Income and Hybrids Analyst

* David Fabris

Macquarie Research - Research Analyst

* Desmond Tsao

Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Research Division - Associate

* Donald N. Carducci

JPMorgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst

* Phillip Chippindale

Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst

* Rohan Sundram

MST Marquee - Gaming and Contractors Analyst

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the PointsBet Holdings Limited Q4 FY 2020, Appendix 4C and quarterly activities report conference call. (Operator Instructions)

I would now like to hand the conference over to Mr. Sam Swanell, Managing Director and Group CEO. Please go ahead.

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [2]

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Good morning, and thank you for joining this call for the PointsBet Holdings Limited Q4 FY '20 Business Update and Activities Report. This is Sam Swanell, CEO, and I'm joined on the call today by our CFO, Andrew Mellor; and General Counsel, Andrew Hensher. This morning, I would like to walk you through the Q4 FY '20 trading performance for the Australian and U.S. businesses. I will then hand over to Andrew Mellor to talk through the Appendix 4C quarterly cash flow update released to the ASX this morning.

Please note all numbers referred to are unaudited and in Australian dollars, unless otherwise stated. We will allow for questions at the end. However, please note, questions are for the benefit of shareholders and analysts. Media inquiries are to be directed to Geoff Elliott at GRACosway, and we are unable to answer any specific questions regarding full year results, details of which will be released to the market at the end of August as part of the FY '20 full year statutory results.

As can be seen on Slide 4, the Q4 performance of the Australian Trading business resulted in strong growth across the key KPIs, including turnover of $302.9 million. As expected, our U.S. business was impacted by the pausing of key U.S. sports in March. However, I was pleased that the business was able to generate $46.5 million in handle over the quarter.

Turning to Slide 5. The Australian Trading business performed exceptionally well, achieving a record net win for the quarter of $32.4 million, up 330.4% from the PCP with each month successively breaking PointsBet's net win record. Net win margin of 10.7% was up from 8.7% in the previous quarter. This represents a record quarterly net win margin. This strong overall performance has been driven by 3 key factors: PointsBet raising turnover growth in percentage terms, outperforming the market when compared to other wagering service providers; the improvement in PointsBet's overall product offering, leading to a greater share of wallet from existing clients; and the shift of gambling spend online as a result of COVID-enforced retail venue closures.

In Australia, the business saw an 80.5% increase in turnover and a 330.4% increase in net win compared to the PCP. Quarterly net win of $32.4 million takes the total FY '20 net win in Australia to $75.1 million, up over 159% on the PCP. As well as delivering record monthly net win in each of April, May and June, the Australian Trading business had its second and consecutive positive EBITDA quarter. Despite a lack of sport for a large part of the quarter, Australia saw significantly improved results compared to Q4 FY '19 across metrics such as bets per client, turnover per client and net win per client. Further, the launch of the same-game multi-product in July, while still in its early days, has seen an increase in multi turnover, which over time should drive an increase in gross margin.

The quarter saw the successful execution of an agreement to become the exclusive wagering partner for FOX Sports AFL during the 2020 AFL season. This successful partnership complements the company's earlier media deal with Channel 7 to become the exclusive Victorian odds integration partner for their Autumn and Spring National Horse Racing coverage and highlights management's continued discipline and opportunistic approach to targeting media assets to deliver efficient client acquisition and increased betting volumes.

Now turning to Slide 6. As a result of the 4 major U.S. sporting leagues being absent for all of Q4 FY '20, PointsBet U.S. recorded net win of $1.2 million at a net win margin of 2.5% in Q4 FY '20. This resulted in a year-to-date net win of $7 million. During this quarter, as previously communicated, the U.S. marketing spend was reduced significantly from pre-COVID expectations. Following the suspension of the major sports leagues, a number of new sports and competitions were approved for wagering by U.S. regulators.

Table tennis proved most popular with over 100 events daily being able to be bet on pre-match and in-play. And as a result, table tennis represented the highest handle of all sports offered in April and May. $46.5 million in turnover demonstrates the strong performance from the PointsBet team in keeping clients engaged during a period with no NFL, NBA, MLB or NHL. We are well placed to execute on the restart of the major sporting leagues across the U.S. with major league baseball having commenced last Thursday, U.S. Time and NBA basketball and NHL resuming this week.

PointsBet is operational in New Jersey, Iowa and Indiana. As noted earlier, this month, PointsBet has now also received a permit authorizing retail and digital operations in Illinois. Subject to the company's partner, Hawthorne Race Course, receiving its master sports wagering license, PointsBet plans to launch in Illinois by the end of August. Launches in Colorado and Michigan will follow Illinois. Michigan will see the launch of PointsBet's iGaming product, the development of which is progressing well and on schedule.

As a reminder, PointsBet currently has access to a total of 12 U.S. states, subject to where relevant, the passing of enabling legislation and licensure. PointsBet is very well positioned to continue to expand its state footprint. PointsBet recently announced a partnership with the Detroit Tigers major league baseball team being the first sports betting partnership for a professional sports team within Michigan and also the first for any MLB franchise. Sponsorship agreements serve to drive brand awareness in the jurisdictions in which we have market access, and also shows continued confidence in our business and brand by major sporting organizations in the United States.

During the quarter, PointsBet achieved a market share of 8.7% in New Jersey based on New Jersey online sports betting handle for the quarter, as reported by the New Jersey Division of Gaming Enforcement. On 9 July 2020, PointsBet announced an agreement with BetMakers to offer fixed odds betting on racing in New Jersey with scope to expand to other jurisdictions subject to receipt of all necessary regulatory and other approvals. This should represent a significant opportunity for the company given PointsBet's experience in fixed-odds racing in Australia as well as the potential size of the opportunity in the U.S. To provide some perspective, annually, there are twice as many horse races in the U.S. as there are in Australia with larger total prize pools. However, currently the amount wagered per capita in the U.S. on horse racing remains a fraction of that in Australia.

Turning to Slide 7. The suspension of the key global sports since March 12 had a direct impact on client acquisition and client activity overall in both the U.S. and Australia. In Australia, with the NRL and AFL seasons relaunching in the months of May and June, respectively, PointsBet has seen client acquisition activity normalized towards pre-COVID expectations.

In the U.S., due to lack of premium sporting content for clients to bet on and the reduction of marketing spend that followed, lower activity naturally resulted. For the 12 months to 30 June 2020, the group had just over 111,000 active clients, being those clients who have placed a bet during the 12-month period. As can be seen from this slide, 12-month active clients have increased by 9,206 being 9% in H2 FY '20 compared to an increase of 34,145 being 74% in H2 FY '19, and this is a direct result of the suspension of sports in Q3 and Q4 as just described. I will now hand over to Andrew Mellor to talk through the Q4 Appendix 4C quarterly cash flow update released to the ASX this morning.

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Andrew J. Mellor, PointsBet Holdings Limited - CFO [3]

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Thank you, Sam, and good morning to all in Australia, and good afternoon to all in the U.S. Turning to Slide 10. As communicated in our last quarterly update, the company had a number of levers to pull to significantly reduce costs as we dealt with the impact of COVID. In the U.S., we immediately reduced our marketing expenses and cost of sales where possible, which resulted in a significant reduction of these expenses compared to our pre-COVID expectation. As Sam has spoken to, in Australia, the closure of retail wagering and gaming venues during the quarter saw a shift of gambling spend online. This, together with the upcoming brand consolidation in the market, created a unique opportunity for our Australian business. The company sought to capitalize on this by increasing our Australian marketing spend during the quarter.

The company has always taken a disciplined and pragmatic approach to managing its cash flows, and the importance of this strategy was never more pertinent than in Q4 FY '20 as the company responded to COVID. At the 30th of June 2020, the company's corporate cash balance was $135.4 million, with the quarterly AUD-USD FX movement, resulting in an unfavorable contribution of $11.7 million during the reporting period as the company holds the majority of its corporate cash in USD. As a reminder, the company has no borrowings.

Receipts from customers for the quarter totaled $33.4 million, bringing the year-to-date total to $82 million. Net cash received from operating activities in the quarter ending 30 June 2020 was $3.1 million. Excluding the movement in player cash accounts, net cash received from operating activities was $1.2 million. The positive quarterly net operating cash flows resulted primarily from Q4 U.S. marketing spend being reduced significantly from pre-COVID expectations in the June quarter, the strong performance of the Australian Trading business and the timing of operating payments. In Q1 FY '21, as major U.S. sports restart, PointsBet will resume its targeted U.S. marketing strategy and as a result, the company expects to return to negative quarterly net operating cash flows in the coming quarters.

Away from receipts from customers, operating cash flows were driven by cost of sales being $11.2 million, non-capitalized staff costs being $6.7 million, marketing costs being $9.3 million and administration and corporate costs being $5.4 million. Net cash used in investing activities in the quarter ending 30 June 2020 was $3.9 million, predominantly related to U.S. business development and capitalization of technology staff costs. I'll now hand back to Sam to provide some concluding comments.

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [4]

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Thank you, Andy. Turning to Slide 11. It is clear that throughout this quarter, every aspect of the business has retained our single-minded focus on execution. In Australia, the execution by the technology, marketing, client service and trading teams to achieve the growth and margin improvements was first class. In the U.S., our team continued to focus on maximizing engagement on minor sports and on the readiness for launching Illinois, Colorado and Michigan and the relaunch of the key U.S. sports.

Our global technology team continued unabated to build and improve upon our scalable proprietary technology platform. This can be evidenced by items such as the recent launch of our new lightning-fast and responsive app and website in Australia; Same Game Multi, which was, as previously noted, will drive an increase in gross margin; Single sign-on functionality for our U.S. clients using our services in multiple jurisdictions; and our U.S. market-first Parlay Booster product. For the coming half, we look forward to executing a full brand-led marketing strategy in Indiana and Illinois and further demonstrating the capability of our outstanding team to achieve target market share.

In Australia, we will continue our strong momentum on the back of the smorgasbord of sport and racing. Significantly, we will have a never seen before depth of popular sports running concurrently as we enter the new financial year. Being a resumption of the big 4 U.S. sports, the continuation of Australian sports in NRL and AFL and continued strong racing content across all codes leading into the Spring Carnival.

It truly is an exciting time for our business. I would like to thank PointsBet staff globally for their resilience and dedication over the last few months. I would like to thank you for your time today and would welcome any questions.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions)

Your first question comes from Phil Chippindale with Ord Minnett.

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Phillip Chippindale, Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst [2]

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First question, just want to touch on the New Jersey market share that was just under 9% for the quarter. Can you just talk to what, in your opinion, was the driver for that improved percentage? I know it was a significant jump in the previous quarter. So I guess I'm wondering is it more about the more niche sports that you're offering. Or is there any other sort of drivers that you can point us to?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [3]

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Phil, look, I think it was down to, again, us being very focused on keeping activity at decent levels. We are making most of those second-tier sports. You could say that some of our competitors that had an online casino product maybe shifted their focus to casino to being less so on sports. I think those elements are what's contributed there.

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Phillip Chippindale, Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst [4]

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Okay. Just turning to Illinois, can you give us a bit of an update in terms of the current state of the requirements regarding in-person sign-up in that state? I understand there's a period of time where that requirement was suspended. So is that still currently the case? Or can you just give us a bit of update on that, please?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [5]

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Yes, for sure. So the legislation as written requires in-person registration for 18 months in Illinois. And that was a net positive for PointsBet, given our locations with Hawthorne Race Course, not only the primary location, but the 3 off-track betting shops, which are very close to a part of the Chicago area. So we feel we are well placed in Illinois to take advantage of that in-person registration requirement. The governor did effectively put that on the sidelines for a month, but it's now -- that sidelining has now been removed. So we're back to as per the legislation. Really, there's only 1 sportsbook live in Illinois and that's Rivers. So they've had a short window of opportunity to sign up people remotely, but we're now back to the intended in-person registration environment.

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Phillip Chippindale, Ord Minnett Limited, Research Division - Senior Research Analyst [6]

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Okay. Finally, I just want to touch on some news out overnight regarding Major League Baseball being interrupted by COVID, some sort of some similar-ish articles I'm talking about some impacts on NFL teams. Can you just talk about points of that strategy, if in fact, there is significant disruptions to the big U.S. sports coming back online?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [7]

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Yes. I think the first thing is the MLB is still ongoing. But yes, the Miami Marlins team had some positives. I think the other distinction is, is that both the NBA basketball and the NHL hockey, which is starting this week, are both doing so from hot hubs. The ice hockey, for example, they're actually in Canada. And they've been testing through the roof and no one -- there has been no issues there. So I think MLB has a little bit different risk level to the basketball and the hockey.

In terms of catering for all scenarios, we just have to be on our toes and be agile and be built into any plans, whether we're making commitments to marketing assets or deals that we build in the possibility that these could be interrupted seasons. And obviously, that's front of mind for everyone. And again, I think our ability, with COVID first hit, we dialed down our marketing and respond very quickly with first wave. And if required, we'll do that again. But I think the NFL has entered their training camp. And as I said, the NBA and the ice hockey in the hubs, I think that's a pretty positive sign.

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Operator [8]

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Your next question comes from Don Carducci with JPMorgan.

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Donald N. Carducci, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst [9]

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Just 2 questions from me. The first one being that you've been reporting Iowa and Indiana key metrics up until this quarter. Can you let us know why that's no longer relevant to look at your growth across those American states? And was this one of the key drivers to the gross win margin almost happening from 6.2% to 3.5%?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [10]

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Yes. Note, we did include on the very back page in appendix that breaks down the states so we did include that. The one thing I would note is that for Indiana, we literally launched for 1 week before COVID hit. So it's effectively on hold. And for Iowa, we've been clear since that market opened up that mobile registration begins on January 1. Until then, it's in-person registration and we don't have -- unlike our Illinois setup, we don't have the best location there. So we're not investing large amounts at all to marketing.

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Donald N. Carducci, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst [11]

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Okay. Great. And then maybe just to expand on the question that Phil had asked. I know you mentioned iGaming and casinos and whatnot. We all know there are fewer opportunities to wager. But can you help us understand what's happening with the U.S. growth story, particularly -- I'm trying to reconcile how you lost 8% of active customers in the fourth quarter. But at the same time, your market share in New Jersey increased 3 percentage points from 5.6% to 8.7%. It just feels like this means New Jersey was less attractive to the competition. If you're losing customers, but gaining market share, I would be keen to hear you kind of elaborate that on a little bit more, if you could?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [12]

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Yes. I would say, it's even like Australia. So even take a month like April when there was no AFL or NRL in Australia, actives were way down because AFL and NRL and the American sports have had the mass appeal. So you're talking about in a market through -- for all of Q4 in America where none of the big 4 sports were live. So there's a large part of the consumer that really only wants to be active on sports betting when those big 4 sports are live. So activity just naturally drops. And then that's further, I suppose, emphasized by the fact that we will drop our marketing spend because it's not worth investing at the same levels when you don't have those sports to monetize the activity.

So those 2 factors just means that the overall market, obviously, if you look at the New Jersey total numbers, they've come down dramatically. So we're part of that. But I suppose, relative to our peers, we were able to grow within that smaller market.

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Donald N. Carducci, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst [13]

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So would that mean that you would expect when sports turned back on that you're going to see your market share decrease so your active customers increase as a result?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [14]

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Yes. So certainly, in terms of active customers, they will definitely start to increase, and we'll start to spend marketing dollars again and the activity will pick right up. In New Jersey, we're spending at a marketing level that is equivalent by our measures to be about 5% to 6% play out, okay? So we do see this as a slightly -- slight outperformance compared to what we expect from our marketing investment.

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Operator [15]

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Our next question comes from Damien Williamson with Bell Potter.

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Damien Williamson, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Fixed Income and Hybrids Analyst [16]

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Sam and Andy, great result. Just a question on your Australian results. The daily net win rate has accelerated from what you reported at the end of May. And given the Australian results, do you see that you could potentially overtake Bet365 and Ladbrokes in terms of your ranking in the Australian marketplace over the next little while?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [17]

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Yes. Look, I think it's really encouraging, obviously, that the online market as a whole that we're now playing into has definitely grown. There's certainly been a transfer from offline to online. And even with offline opening back up, we always expected that a portion of that would remain online, and we're now playing into a bigger pool. We know that we are growing faster than our peers based off what we see from the principal rating authorities when they report some of their turnover numbers. But obviously, we are coming off a lower base when you compare it to Ladbrokes, et cetera.

So look, Ladbrokes also have Neds. So we think of them as sort of combined. That's the 1 operator with 2 brands. They're still a fair way ahead. Bet365 is probably a logical goal for us to aim for to one sort of become that #4 operator. You've got Sportsbet and BetEasy coming together, which is a great positive for us in this marketplace with the cessation of the BetEasy brand. You've obviously got Tabcorp, and then you've got Ladbrokes/Neds. So I think we got the aspiration to be #4 in the marketplace is strong.

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Damien Williamson, Bell Potter Securities Limited, Research Division - Fixed Income and Hybrids Analyst [18]

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Okay. And just a final question. In terms of launching in Illinois, can you just provide an update on what the status is of DraftKings and FanDuel and their access to Illinois?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [19]

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Yes, certainly. So DraftKings have announced their partnership with Casino Queen casino in St. Louis, so it's not in Chicago. They haven't launched yet, and I think there's still some regulatory hurdles that they need to jump through to get live. Obviously, the in-person registration being reinstated as per the legislation probably hurt their aspirations a little bit for the state. And probably one of the reasons their share price is down overnight. FanDuel haven't announced officially who their partner is, but it's expected to be Fairmount Racetrack. So they're expected to be in the state of Illinois. But as we've touched on the in-person registration limits, I suppose, the ability for them to leverage their databases and their locations certainly aren't as strong, as well as in PointsBet.

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Operator [20]

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Your next question comes from Alice Li with Crédit Suisse.

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Alice Li, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [21]

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The first one is just to follow-up on Illinois. So in terms of launching, once Hawthorne Race Course receives a master license, what still needs to happen? Like if all is going to retail perhaps, for example? And how is the regulatory process?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [22]

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Yes. There's still a couple of kickoffs that need to happen once Hawthorne receive their license. So just final checking of systems and that everything is in place. So that's maybe a week or 2, but we've sort of guided that towards the end of August or by the end of August, we hope to be live in Illinois.

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Alice Li, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [23]

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Okay. And I just wanted to confirm, for the 3 metropolitan retail shops, can they also take online registration?

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Andrew J. Mellor, PointsBet Holdings Limited - CFO [24]

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Can they take online registration? Yes.

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [25]

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Yes. Yes. Sorry, yes, certainly, they can. Yes. Yes. I mean, look, one of the opportunities for us obviously is that those off-track betting shops already have very good customers coming through the door, betting on the horse racing that's going on through the ADW there. And we'll certainly be, not just the fact that you have to go to a physical location to sign up an account before you go home and can bet on your mobile, but it's also an opportunity for us that there's good foot traffic and good quality clients there for us to acquire.

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Alice Li, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [26]

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And just on that, once you're live, I think there will be rates that defines into your dollars. So what's the early days strategy going to be? Is it going to be purely radio, digital, Facebook or even event passes, for example?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [27]

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Yes. Obviously, if it's -- we're going into in-person registration, it's a different strategy than if it's mobile registration because we need to drive people at some part of the funnel to one of our 4 locations. But we will be executing a more rounded marketing strategy than we've been able to execute in New Jersey. I've spoken before about the fact that the reason -- one of the reasons we're limiting our spend in New Jersey to current levels and not pushing harder is twofold: one, we can't execute a full media strategy because a lot of the media dollars would be wasted into New York and Pennsylvania; and two, we'll wait until we've got our online casino product live in that state before pushing to the next level.

Indiana and Illinois are really the target states for us going forward. And we'll be looking to execute a more well-rounded brand strategy. We want to introduce to the market that there's alternatives to FanDuel and DraftKings, and that PointsBet is here. And again, that's not something we've been able to do on a large-scale in New Jersey, and that's one of the reasons we are confident in our ability to hit our target market share in those states.

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Alice Li, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [28]

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Great. Just one last point on Illinois. I think there's some ambiguity in terms of the branding rules in that state. So Casino Queen, for example, recently rebranded as DraftKings. So I just wonder, in PointsBet strategy, what's the name going to be for the brand? Is it Hawthorne Race Course, maybe co-branding or just PointsBet?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [29]

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Well, it's definitely PointsBet. The rule issued by the Illinois Gaming Board around branding talks about co-branding. And it's similar, as you know, Alice, as to what's been happening successfully in Pennsylvania. So any brand recognition for locally advertised assets and on our app, each set will contain sort of both logos, but it's definitely the PointsBet sportsbook. And look, the state of Illinois recognizes that national players, such as us, we're going to be doing national marketing, and that will be under our national brand. And so if they want to get the benefit of that in the state of Illinois, we have to be able to use our brand, and that's what that rule represents.

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Alice Li, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [30]

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Okay. Great. And my next question is also a follow-up in light of the MLB league outbreak. So if in FY '21, this is going to be the new normal for a while, being sporting events are now on possible suspensions. You touched on committing to marketing dollars. So do you mind just going into a bit of details in terms of how much do you think is going to be fixed in terms of marketing? And what are some of the other fixed OpEx? How Agile PointsBet's going to be in terms of like rolling with the context with this?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [31]

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Yes. There's not much I can add there, Alice, other than just the fact that, obviously, we're aware of the risk and the flexibility that we need to build in. And all of our marketing plans and contracts have catered for those scenarios. I mean, obviously, digital marketing, we can turn up and down very quickly with some of the brand and sponsorship, et cetera, in making commitments but we have catered for those scenarios.

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Alice Li, Crédit Suisse AG, Research Division - Research Analyst [32]

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Okay. I have one last question. Just in Australia, going forward, do you plan to maybe keep increasing spending and expanding over here or maybe take some profit and reduce capital for the U.S.?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [33]

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So look, we probably will -- our plan is to increase marketing spend in Australia because the opportunity is presenting, and we monitor this client lifetime value to cost per acquisition actively in real time. And if we can spend money efficiently and maintain that positive relationship, then we'll keep spending. The Australian business has produced 2 positive EBITDA quarters. That gives us great confidence that we have some choices around the Australian businesses, just how much we can invest in the Australian market. And hopefully, it won't be at the expense of our capital being allocated to the U.S.

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Operator [34]

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Your next question comes from Rohan Sundram with MST Financial.

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Rohan Sundram, MST Marquee - Gaming and Contractors Analyst [35]

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A couple of questions on the domestic front. Can I just start with -- post the gradual reopening of the TABs, has anything surprised you in terms of the portion of customers you've been able to retain versus those that might have gone back to retail?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [36]

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No, look, it hasn't surprised because we always expected that once recreational customers experience online betting with a company like PointsBet, it's a pretty compelling experience compared to the pure cash play. And the positive thing is, is that with the return of sport, as I spoke about, that's increased our, let's call it, our active base because it has broader reach and broader appeal. But the momentum has continued, which has been good.

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Rohan Sundram, MST Marquee - Gaming and Contractors Analyst [37]

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Okay. Great. And last one for me. Around the net win margin, the spike you saw there. Is there any way you can attribute that in ballpark terms between the customer and the product mix initiatives versus favorable results, broadly?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [38]

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Yes. What I'll say is that the fact that you have a larger portion of your turnover racing-related than sports-related. Sports is lower margin. Racing is higher margin. So the fact that sports only started returning. And when we talk about sports returning, we're only talking about the Australian sports, we're not talking about the massively popular U.S. sports. I mean NBA basketball is the biggest betting sport in Australia. So these U.S. sports have an impact, even though it would otherwise be the downtime in U.S. sports at the moment.

But we've -- this quarter, there's 2 main factors that I'll talk about: one, the fact that racing turnover was a greater share than it would otherwise have been, if not for sports suspensions; and two, there has been some favorable results. There's no doubt about that. But as our product improves and as our overall operation improves, our ability to attract and retain those recreational customers and to give away less generosities to do so, improve. So you've got -- you sort of got all of those factors working together.

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Operator [39]

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Your next question comes from Desmond Tsao with Goldman Sachs.

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Desmond Tsao, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Research Division - Associate [40]

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I just got a couple of real quick ones. Perhaps asking Rohan's question in a slightly different way. Obviously, very impressive trends across the net win margins. And as you sort of alluded to sort of a move from sports to racing. But I just want to pick up on a comment on the call. I think you mentioned that month-on-month, that trend has been increasing, but really can sort of perhaps, focus on how the margin -- the net win margin looked in June, particularly when you had an NFL restarting. And then I guess, how we should think about it being shift into July with racing somewhat sort of easing and then you've got avalanche sports coming back online?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [41]

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Yes. So we haven't released June specific numbers. So I won't talk to that specifically, but we did make the comment that we've continued our run of record net win results. So June was bigger than May. May was bigger than April. And given that June saw the return of at least the Australian sports, and then a return to, let's call it, the new COVID normal through most parts of Australia, I think that's pretty encouraging for -- going forward.

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Desmond Tsao, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., Research Division - Associate [42]

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Yes. Okay. That's great. And then maybe just a question around, I suppose, the theory that potentially there may be play for a team with all these key sporting events coming back online, you had the Premier League, NRL and AFL in June and July. What lessons can you sort of learn from the Australian business and apply that to the U.S. with the 4K sports coming back on in the U.S. over the near term?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [43]

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Yes. I mean, look, you've got all -- in Australia, as I touched on, we're going to have the Aussie sports, the American sports and racing all going at once. And normally, they're spread out. So we expect to see really heightened activity. And there's still some restrictions, especially in Victoria on the way people can spend their discretionary entertainment dollar. So we're still in this sort of slightly strange post-COVID environment in Australia.

In the U.S., look, NFL is the biggest sport. That's the way it is. NBA is next biggest, but the NFL on a per match basis. So that's on track for September. That works out well. We know our clients. We know what they like to bet on. So from a CRM perspective, if you try and target offers and the materials that you're putting in front of them. We've just got to prioritize based on our knowledge of our client base and what appeals in the market.

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Operator [44]

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Your next question comes from David Fabris with Macquarie Group.

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David Fabris, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [45]

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Look, a lot of questions that I was going to ask have already been done. So I mean, firstly, just trying to get a bit more color out of the Aussie market. And I guess, trying to understand sort of consumer behavior on a sequential monthly basis, if you can talk to it around sort of bet size and frequency. Has that changed more so as offline has reopened and you've got more subsidization of -- if consumer activity is available? Or do you still see continued frequency and bet volumes from your customer base?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [46]

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As the Aussie sports have returned and your client base gets deeper, again, because they have the mass appeal, whereas the people that were betting through the period where there was no Aussie sports, a lot of -- there was a transfer from sport to racing, but they're your keener punters. But as the mainstream appeal sports return, you'd naturally expect your actives to go right up. So there's more people betting in a month. But they might be the type of people that only have 1 bet a week or 2 bet a week. So some of your per active statistics would naturally come down. And similarly, as we've spoken about before, then yield should come down because sports should make up a larger portion of the turnover.

So look, there's nothing happening that we wouldn't expect to have, and other than to say that, that strong momentum generally I think, both from the market but also from us because of the improvements we've made and the momentum that we've build -- built, is carrying us well through this period.

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David Fabris, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [47]

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Got you. And just in some comments you made, and obviously, how strong these U.S. sports are to some customers. Do you think there's a cohort of the customer base that's going to come back on and give you incremental share of their wallet? Or do you think they will subsidize it from other betting products like table tennis is back into NBA?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [48]

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No, I think there's definitely players out there that are U.S. players. That's -- they're the sports that appeal to them, and that's when they bet. And they may bet a little bit when those sports aren't there, but they will predominantly bet when their favorite sports are available. So again, it just adds to that equation I was talking about. Your actives will grow because you've got all the sports that have appeal happening. So your activity will be strong. And just in terms of the per player activity, you may see some of those individual stats come down.

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David Fabris, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [49]

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Got you. And just one last question. Just on the shift between offline to online and with the reopening of some wagering venues, have you seen a drop-off in volumes from those customers over the sort of from the 3-month period? And what are you doing to try and keep them on the platform?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [50]

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No. That's been the positive. During, let's call it, the full lockdown period, as I said, it's really the keen punters that are playing regularly. But there was also that element of transference and all that element that there was no other entertainment options in town. So even some of my friends who really only bet on Melbourne Cup Day were having a bet occasionally on a Saturday. So you're seeing that it's a consistent message. You're seeing the average client be less, I suppose, of that really committed keen player, all the way down to the more recreational. But generally speaking, the quality of clients at PointsBet is able to attract and retain now is far better than it was 12 months ago, and that's on the result of an improving product.

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David Fabris, Macquarie Research - Research Analyst [51]

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Yes. I guess what I'm trying to look at is some of those customers that have come from retail. Have you seen them sort of migrate back to retail? Or do you think they're sticking and spending the same amount of money?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [52]

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No, we think they're sticking. Yes.

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Operator [53]

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(Operator Instructions) Your next question comes from [Joseph Semone], a private investor.

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Unidentified Participant, [54]

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My query was just in relation -- I had 2 queries. First one in relation to the partnership with BetMakers. I know that they have recently acquired 7 new tracks, one being Fairmount Park in Illinois. I know you just made reference to FanDuel essentially partnering with them. So I'm unsure whether or not you're maybe looking into extending your partnership with BetMakers from the Monmouth Park track in New Jersey to extend it to Fairmount Park Racetrack?

And the second query is just in relation to, I guess, you mentioned the 4 major sporting codes in the U.S. Obviously, you've got Allen Iverson as the face of NBA, also a partnership with [another person] from NFL to your partnership with Detroit Tigers. But there's nothing similar in the works for NHL. I was just wondering whether you have any intention to, I guess, for some kind of market penetration strategy into that code.

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [55]

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Yes. Thanks, Joseph. So firstly, in terms of BetMakers. They started by signing Monmouth Park as a track that they will allow, for example, PointsBet to bet on, subject to regulatory approvals. Their aim, and as you touched on, they've then gone further secured more tracks. And so their aim is to go around and sign up a bunch of tracks in America, but also tracks from outside of America to provide content for us to offer in states like New Jersey and other states as we launch. So there, I suppose they're doing a bit of a role of educating the marketplace in the U.S. This tracks about taking on fixed-odds betting because they're all parimutuel at the moment. And so we'd expect that the list of domestic tracks in America and international tracks that U.S. clients can bet on will slowly increase over time. But the first, obviously, thing that needs to happen is the regulatory approval in each state.

So yes, it's certainly our intention that this will become a larger product set than 1 track, and we'll have a good -- just like in Australia, we have a really strong product mix of racing, but the same thing can occur in America over time.

In terms of brand ambassadors, I think it's probably more about finding individuals that have appeal in certain locations. So yes, that may be NHL player, it may be an NBA player, but what we did with Allen, for example, was targeted to that New Jersey market, where he had really strong recognition and high appeal. And so I think it's definitely within the possibilities as we go into new markets and new areas of America that we also use other brand ambassadors.

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Unidentified Participant, [56]

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So obviously, you had the Topgolf event at New Jersey in the recent weeks. So was your offering available for that weekend?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [57]

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No. No. So the BetMakers, the Haskells, the big events for Monmouth every year, and BetMakers were hoping that perhaps there'll be a product to be live by that date. But no, it's still waiting regulatory approval in New Jersey. So until that happens, that's the final domino that has to fall. We can't bet on that product.

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Operator [58]

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The next question is a follow-up question from Don Carducci with JPMorgan.

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Donald N. Carducci, JPMorgan Chase & Co, Research Division - Analyst [59]

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One more question. So you've mentioned being disciplined and targeted with your media and marketing spend in specific states. But on a relative basis, your competitors who are planning to do to the same have raised a little over USD 2 billion in aggregate over the last few months. Can you talk to what your comfort level is to retain competitiveness with those operators when you have less than USD 100 million on the balance sheet?

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [60]

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Yes. Thanks, Don. Look, ball eyeing for the business has always been that the business will always have enough cash to execute upon its aspirations as we -- that's always been the case. And as we grow and conform our aspirations in certain states, that will dictate how much cash we need. We're certainly not naive to the equations around marketing investments. And at this stage, we're aiming for a 10% market share in the states in which we're going live into. And here, the pace at which those states legalize and our aspirations of business will dictate how much cash we need.

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Operator [61]

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There are no further questions at this time. I will now hand back to Mr. Swanell for closing remarks.

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Samuel J. Swanell, PointsBet Holdings Limited - Co-Founder, MD, Group CEO & Director [62]

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Thanks, everyone, for your time. Look forward to speaking in the future.