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Edited Transcript of REAL.TO earnings conference call or presentation 2-May-19 3:00pm GMT

Q2 2019 Real Matters Inc Earnings Call

THORNHILL May 9, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Real Matters Inc earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 3:00:00pm GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Jason Smith

Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director

* Lyne Beauregard Fisher

Real Matters Inc. - VP of IR & Corporate Communications

* William P. M. Herman

Real Matters Inc. - Executive VP & CFO

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Conference Call Participants

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* Daniel Chan

TD Securities Equity Research - Research Analyst

* David Emerson Ridley-Lane

BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division - VP

* Gavin Fairweather

Cormark Securities Inc., Research Division - Analyst of Institutional Equity Research

* Robert Young

Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director

* Steven Li

Raymond James Ltd., Research Division - SVP

* William James Cocks

BMO Capital Markets Equity Research - Associate

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Good morning. My name is James, and I'll be your conference operator today. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to the Real Matters Second Quarter 2019 Conference Call. (Operator Instructions) Thank you.

I would now like to turn the call over to the Vice President of Investor Relations and Marketing, Lyne Fisher. Please go ahead.

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Lyne Beauregard Fisher, Real Matters Inc. - VP of IR & Corporate Communications [2]

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Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to Real Matters financial results conference call for the second quarter of fiscal 2019. With me today are Real Matters' Chief Executive Officer, Jason Smith; and Chief Financial Officer, Bill Herman.

This morning before market opened, we issued a news release announcing our Q2 results for fiscal 2019 for the 3- and 6-month period ending March 31, 2019. The release, accompanying slide presentation as well as the financial statements and MD&A are posted in the Investor Relations section of our website at realmatters.com.

During the call, we may make certain forward-looking statements, which reflect the current expectations of management with respect to our business and the industry in which we operate. These forward-looking statements are based on management's experience and perception of historical trends, current market conditions, expected future developments as well as other factors that we believe to be appropriate and reasonable in the circumstances. The forward-looking statements reflect management's beliefs based on information currently available to the management and should not be read as a guarantee of the occurrence or timing of any future events, performance or results.

Forward-looking information is subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that are difficult to predict and that could cause actual results to differ materially from historical results or results anticipated by the forward-looking information. A comprehensive discussion of the factors which could cause results or events to differ from current expectations can be found in the Risk Factors section of the company's annual information form for the year ended September 30, 2018, under the heading Important Factors Affecting Results from Operations in the company's MD&A for the 3 and 6 months ended March 31, 2019, each of which is available on SEDAR and on our website.

As a reminder, we refer to non-GAAP measures in our slide presentation, including net revenue, net revenue margins, adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA margin. Non-GAAP measures are described in our MD&A for the 3 and 6 months ended March 31, 2019, where you will also find reconciliations to the nearest IFRS measures.

With that, I'll now turn the call over to Jason.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [3]

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Thank you, Lyne, and good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us on the call today.

Today, we reported consolidated revenues of $63.3 million and adjusted EBITDA of $2.8 million in the second quarter of fiscal 2019.

While our U.S. Appraisal revenues were up modestly, this increase was offset by a decline in our U.S. Title and Canadian segments. The U.S. mortgage origination market was down an estimated 15% in the second quarter relative to the comparable period in 2018. While purchase transactions grew modestly, the refinance market declined on a year-over-year basis. Increased margins in our U.S. Appraisal segment were the principal driver behind the significant increase in our consolidated adjusted EBITDA and adjusted EBITDA margins on a year-over-year basis.

We were pleased with the performance of our U.S. Appraisal business in the second quarter. We recorded market-adjusted volume growth of 15% year-over-year, and we gained share with all of our Tier 1 lenders that are live in the main origination channel on a sequential and comparative basis.

I'm also very happy to report that we launched the sixth Tier 1 lender during the second quarter, which means we are now live with all 6 Tier 1 lenders. We believe we are the only provider delivering appraisals to all 6 Tier 1 lenders for mortgage originations.

It's been a multi-year journey to get to this point, starting with the launch of our first Tier 1 lender in 2015. We've made great strides since then, successfully winning each Tier 1 lender and progressively growing share based on our ability to outperform competitors on a consistent basis due to our platform and network of field professionals.

As you know, the Tier 1 lenders represent a focal point of our long-term strategy, given their size and strength, and so this milestone is an important marker of how we are executing on our strategy.

We also launched 2 new top 100 lenders in U.S. Appraisal in the second quarter, and we continue to gain share in the channels that matter to us, principally origination, at a rate that puts us on track to achieve our long-term market share objectives of 15% to 20% by September 30, 2021.

From an operations perspective, we were ranked at the top of all Tier 1 lender scorecards in Q2, and this achievement is translating into additional market share. We also expanded U.S. Appraisal net revenue margin and nearly doubled adjusted EBITDA during the quarter, which Bill will speak to during his remarks.

In our U.S. Title segment, Q2 revenues were down 9% year-over-year. However, we recorded market-adjusted volume growth of 11%. As I mentioned earlier, we believe the total U.S. mortgage origination market was down 15% year-over-year due to lower refinance activity, which are the mortgage originations that our U.S. Title segment currently addresses.

We believe that we have now passed the inflection point on a year-over-year comparative basis for refinance-related activity. We saw lower interest rates in March for a short period, but that did not have an impact on our second quarter results, given the lag between applications and closings. We expect to see that play through in our third quarter results.

We went live with 1 new top-100 lender in U.S. Title during the second quarter, and the sales pipeline continues to be strong.

In our Canadian segment, second quarter revenues were down 22% year-over-year. A weaker Canadian dollar contributed to the decline and higher appraisal volumes from increasing market share with certain Canadian clients was offset by a weaker mortgage origination market in Canada.

With that, I'll hand it over to Bill. Bill?

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William P. M. Herman, Real Matters Inc. - Executive VP & CFO [4]

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Thank you, Jason, and good morning, everyone.

Turning to slides 4 and 5 for a closer look at our financial results. As Jason stated earlier, consolidated revenues were down 4% in the second quarter of fiscal 2019 compared to the same quarter last year due to lower mortgage market activity, which we estimate declined 15%. Revenues in our U.S. Appraisal segment were up a modest 0.5%. However, U.S. Title and Canadian segment revenues were down 9% and 22%, respectively, on a comparative basis.

In our U.S. Appraisal segment, we serviced higher origination volumes due to strong market share gains, most notably, with our Tier 1 clients. As a result, average revenue per unit increased in the second quarter as we serviced a greater proportion of higher-priced origination volumes and a lower proportion of home equity and default volumes, which are lower priced services.

U.S. Appraisal transaction costs declined 3% year-over-year versus the 0.5% increase in revenues over the same period. Net revenue was up 13% to $10.6 million, and net revenue margins increased to 24.6% in the second quarter of fiscal 2019 from 21.8% in the second quarter of fiscal 2018, an increase of 280 basis points.

The net revenue margin improvement was largely the result of the network effect and increased competition in efficiencies within our network. To put this into perspective, when we achieved a similar amount of net revenue in our U.S. Appraisal segment in the third quarter of 2018, net revenue margins were only 20.9%. As has been the case in the past, as we onboard new appraisers to scale and satisfy the volume ramp in the spring, you can expect a slight decline in margins in the third quarter of fiscal 2019. That said, we're very pleased with the progress we made to date as we marched toward net revenue margins of 27%, which we believe is achievable with the doubling of volumes.

Operating expenses in our U.S. Appraisal segment declined to $5.9 million from $6.9 million in the second quarter of fiscal 2018, which, with higher net revenue, contributed to the 90% increase in adjusted EBITDA year-over-year.

Adjusted EBITDA margins in our U.S. Appraisal segment increased to 45.1% in the second quarter of fiscal 2019, up from the 26.8% we posted in the second quarter of fiscal 2018. Lower payroll and related costs was the primary contributor to the decline in operating expenses, the result of lower estimated market volumes and the integration of certain operation carried out in fiscal 2018.

In our U.S. Title segment, second quarter revenues were down 9% year-over-year, while transaction costs declined 2% by comparison. This resulted in net revenue margin compression of 340 basis points. Our U.S. Title net revenue margins declined to 56.8% from 60.2% in the second quarter of fiscal 2018 due to lower margins on rate refinance and home equity volumes we serviced in this segment. This decline is also a reflection of it being early days for our network management strategy in our U.S. Title segment.

Operating expenses in this segment declined to $7.6 million from $8.7 million in the second quarter of fiscal 2018, and adjusted EBITDA decreased to $0.8 million from $1.1 million in the same quarter last year.

In Canada, while revenues declined in the second quarter of fiscal 2019, we leveraged our network and expanded net revenue margins to 20.1% from the 18.8% we posted in the second quarter of fiscal 2018. Canadian operating expenses were flat with the second quarter of fiscal 2018, and adjusted EBITDA declined to $0.4 million from the $0.7 million reported in the same quarter last year.

So putting this all together, second quarter consolidated net revenue declined modestly to $20.1 million from the $20.5 million reported in the second quarter of fiscal 2018 due principally to the $1.4 million decline in net revenue earned in our U.S. Title segment from lower refinance volumes. However, consolidated net revenue margins increased to 31.7% from 31% in the second quarter of fiscal 2018 due to healthy net revenue margin expansion in our more mature U.S. Appraisal business despite the contraction in our U.S. Title segment.

As a result of the solid performance in our U.S. Appraisal segment, consolidated adjusted EBITDA increased to $2.8 million from $0.3 million in the second quarter of fiscal 2018. Consolidated adjusted EBITDA margins were 13.8% in the second quarter of fiscal 2019 compared with 1.5% in the second quarter of 2018.

Turning to the balance sheet. We had cash and cash equivalents of $63.5 million at the end of the quarter, down $4.5 million from September. And we continued to purchase shares under our normal course issuer bid, purchasing approximately 1.4 million shares at a cost of about $4.7 million in the second quarter of fiscal 2019. Since March 31, 2019, we have purchased an additional 466,000 shares under our NCIB.

With that, I'll turn it back over to Jason. Jason?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [5]

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Thanks, Bill. To summarize, we were pleased with our performance in the second quarter, particularly, in our more mature U.S. Appraisal business, where we recorded 15% market-adjusted volume growth, increased our market share with our largest client in the main origination channel and went live with the sixth and final Tier 1 lender.

Our net revenue margins in U.S. Appraisal were up 280 basis points, and adjusted EBITDA nearly doubled in this segment. In U.S. Title, we are seeing positive momentum in our sales cycle and remain optimistic about our growth prospects. The short-term decline in interest rates in March will have a pull-through effect in our Q3 closing volumes.

While the spring purchase market is off to a better start than last year, we're still cautious as we move -- watch moves in the 10-year treasury yield, which is a leading indicator of refi market activity. We believe that we've hit a low for refinance activity and that U.S. mortgage market headwinds are largely behind us, which should make the third quarter an easier compare period.

Overall, we're feeling good about the business, and we continue to focus on the things we can control, like operational performance and building scale, to drive market share growth. Our fiscal 2021 market objectives are well within site.

With that, operator, we'd like to open it up for a few questions now.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) And your first question comes from the line of Thanos Moschopoulos from BMO.

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William James Cocks, BMO Capital Markets Equity Research - Associate [2]

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It's Bill, stepping in for Thanos. I guess first off, in terms of EBITDA margins, U.S. Appraisal was particularly strong, while Title was a little light. How should we think about margins evolving through the back half of the year?

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William P. M. Herman, Real Matters Inc. - Executive VP & CFO [3]

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Bill, it's Bill. I think what you're going to see is really a continuation on the Appraisal side of the house. Those margins holding flat at around 45% level for the balance of the year. As we think of Title, there is a bit of a nuance to Q3 in that with the decline in interest rates that occurred in our second quarter, the volumes attributed to it and, therefore, the revenue that we earned from it will find its way into Q3. So we see a bit of an uptick coming through in the title business in our Q3 results, but moderating back down to a level more consistent with our Q2 performance in the Q4 period. So hopefully, that's helpful.

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William James Cocks, BMO Capital Markets Equity Research - Associate [4]

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Great. Yes. It's very helpful. You mentioned dissipating headwinds in the mortgage market, and we've seen the MBA revising their spring quarter estimates upwards recently. In your opinion, is this based purely on interest rate levels? Or is -- are you seeing anything else at play that might be helping drive those headwinds back down?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [5]

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Yes. I think it's largely interest rate-driven. From what we see, our appraisal business benefits from both purchase transactions and refi transactions. And we're seeing a stronger spring market this year than we saw last year. So that's driving our appraisal business. And we're bouncing around the lows on the refi market, notwithstanding the drop in rates that happened in March that came back up. But on a compare period, going forward, the headwinds are gone. So we think that we're in a stable market. We're not anticipating rates to drop further. If they do, that would be additive to the business and that we're focusing on what we can control within our clients and our operations.

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William James Cocks, BMO Capital Markets Equity Research - Associate [6]

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Okay. Great. For the 2 new top-100 lenders in appraisal, were they nonbanks or were they banks?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [7]

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They were a mix.

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William James Cocks, BMO Capital Markets Equity Research - Associate [8]

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They're mix? Great. And I guess, just one last one. Any new lessons learned on the title space, now that you've been live with title 2.0 for a while, whether on the product side or potentially sales cycle?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [9]

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I think we've got the strategy right. We've launched another Tier 2 lender in the quarter. And we're laser-focused on ramping to our Tier 1s. When rates drop, it certainly -- and volume comes up, it -- lenders look at their vendors and realize and start to see where they might have scale issues or value problems. So I think we certainly have seen an increase in our pipeline activity going forward. I think we have the right strategy to win in title.

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Operator [10]

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Your next question comes from the line of Daniel Chan from TD Securities.

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Daniel Chan, TD Securities Equity Research - Research Analyst [11]

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Congratulations on the quarter. For -- in your MD&A, and I think you said this in the prepared remarks as well, you said the average revenue per unit in the U.S. Appraisal market increased. Can you talk about what drives that and how you see that progressing going into the seasonally stronger quarters?

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William P. M. Herman, Real Matters Inc. - Executive VP & CFO [12]

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Sure. So really the uptick there, Dan, was really the mix of services that we supplied in the quarter. Certainly, the origination channel was more fulsome relative to HELOC. And so this is -- the origination channel services is a full appraisal. It, obviously, carries with it a higher amount of revenue on a per-unit basis versus its compare of the HELOC home equity-type activity. So our views are for continuation of stronger -- continued strong origination activity as we think forward. HELOC probably continuing its downward trend is our view. But at this moment, I suspect then with that as a backdrop we probably will have a continued lift in the amount of revenue per unit that you will see come through in our Q3 and follow-on Q4 results.

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Daniel Chan, TD Securities Equity Research - Research Analyst [13]

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Okay. That's helpful. And then also wanted to ask about one of your major competitors, national competitors that said that they would transform their AMC business at the end of December. It's been a few months now. So just wondering if you're seeing their aspirations to bring more technology and automation coming to your discussions with some of your major customers and whether you see that having an impact on your business over the next -- over the remainder of the year.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [14]

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It's Jason. Look, I think we're operating with our strategy. We're #1 ranked with our lenders, specifically the Tier 1 lenders. And we've been gaining share. We actually gained additional share post quarter end. And we execute -- through our strategy and execution, we're seeing the results that we're looking for. So I would say no change from that perspective -- from a competitive perspective.

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Operator [15]

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Your next question comes from the line of David Ridley-Lane from BOA.

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David Emerson Ridley-Lane, BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division - VP [16]

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The number of U.S. appraisers continues to decline. Wondering if you're having any difficulty in recruiting and retaining appraisers in the network.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [17]

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David, it's Jason here. We're not, actually. I think our model is to put more money in the pocket of the right appraiser to concentrate volume to make them more productive. And that has helped us engage. So I think we handled the increase in volumes in the spring market very well because of that. And it's our very low variable cost to serve and our technology that affords us that. So with that model, we do not anticipate a concern in terms of the number of quality appraisers on an independent network that we need in order to service the market, including on doubling of volumes through to 2021.

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David Emerson Ridley-Lane, BofA Merrill Lynch, Research Division - VP [18]

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And then on a separate topic, if you look at -- over the last 12, 24 months, I mean, CoreLogic made a series of acquisitions. They did cede some market share. The most recent results would seem to indicate that their market share is stabilizing. Did you -- in retrospect, looking back, did you benefit from some of that market dislocation over the last 18, 24 months?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [19]

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Yes. So we just launched in the second quarter our last Tier 1 bank, which is significant. That revenue is very early days. Typically, a lender will start off with less than 5% of their volume and then the scorecard due in the next quarter, look at your performance, so on and so forth. So I think we have not seen the benefit in our revenue yet with respect to that. However, we are live with a number of Tier 1 banks, and we are seeing share gains across the board. And as I stated earlier, we had market share expansion with our customers after the quarter end as well. So I think that, that will continue based on the fact that we're #1 ranked on quality and service across the board with our clients.

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Operator [20]

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Your next question comes from the line of Gavin Fairweather from Cormark.

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Gavin Fairweather, Cormark Securities Inc., Research Division - Analyst of Institutional Equity Research [21]

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Congrats on the quarter. I wanted to start off on appraisal net revenue margins, I mean, they've really gone up by about 400 basis points since Q4 levels. In the MD&A, you talk about a doubling of appraisal volume and that moving net revenue margins to 27%. But you're almost at 25% in the quarter. So I guess, it begs the question, as appraisal continues to grow, do you expect that pace of net revenue expansion to moderate a little bit? Or is there maybe upside to that 27%?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [22]

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Very well. I'll take the first part of that. With sort of market share expansion continuing, we're always very thoughtful to have capacity in our network such that we can handle the volume that our customers want us to service. And those are opportunities for us to grab sustainable market share over the long run. And so we're always -- being in a market share expansion phase, we're certainly thoughtful for that. We think that in 2021, the 27% number is correct. However, if we were to plateau with respect to market share after that and on a flat market, I think we would -- we could see some expansion beyond that. But I think we're modeled right, where volume falls in a country can affect it slightly in a quarter, how quickly volume moves up or down in a quarter. So I think we're directionally right, and I think that it will be that march up to the 27% in 2021.

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Gavin Fairweather, Cormark Securities Inc., Research Division - Analyst of Institutional Equity Research [23]

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Okay. That's helpful. And then just given the change in rates, obviously, we've seen a surge in volume here, particularly on the refi side. Maybe just for color you can provide a bit of compare and contrast on how your network-managed model plays through versus a traditional model in this type of environment.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [24]

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It's a great question. So I mean if -- the fact that we have a variable network, i.e. independent contractors, and we have them at different load levels across the country, we can scale up and down much easier than if we had a fixed staff model that was optimized. And the ability to hire or train, of course, staff appraisers in a volume that's growing is difficult because those independent contractors are being well fed. So the fact that we put more money in the pocket of the right appraisers and the fact that we have an independent network plays well in markets that move up or down very quickly in terms of a competitive advantage, and that we're able to maintain our service levels, we're able to widen that -- the performance relative to traditional competitors and that we can scale and have that volume up and down. So there are great market share expansion opportunities in terms of when markets move up quicker than was planned or anticipated.

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Operator [25]

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(Operator Instructions) And your next question comes from the line of Robert Young from Canaccord Genuity.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [26]

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Previously, you'd said that you had overbuilt the network a little built, and there was some room to catch up. And so just based on the comments you just had with the last question and your view of the market, like, when do you think the next time you would need to have a material increase in the operating business?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [27]

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Great question. Last year, certainly, the market not springing at this time in seeing a purchase market had us behind a little bit on our net revenue margins, i.e. we had extra capacity in the network. I think from what we're looking at going forward for the next 2 quarters, we're much better prepared for that this year. We would see a slight degradation for the next 2 quarters from where we're at, but that would be very small is how we're thinking about it. So that's all directly related to capacity. I think we've factored in thoughtfully there market share expansion opportunities and the seasonality of the markets going forward. So we're focused on the long term, winning that long-term market share. And as the volume grows and doubles, we'll see ourselves at the 27% margin level that we laid out.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [28]

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Okay. And then maybe digging into the Tier 1 launch that went live in Q2, I am assuming that means they're generating revenue will be the first thing. And then I think you laid out a bit of a generic ramp expectation. Is there any reason why we wouldn't think of this new Tier 1 as following previous ramps?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [29]

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So your first question is, yes, they're generating reps live and generating revenue in Q2 that just passed. And yes, we think that they would ramp in a similar fashion to the other Tier 1s that we've gone live with.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [30]

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I suppose it's still too early to have gotten a scorecard out of them. Have you gotten any feedback from this new Tier 1 on how your performance has been to date?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [31]

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The feedback is that our performance is very strong, and we very much look forward to our next review meeting with them.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [32]

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Okay. You said that there was a bit of share gain post the quarter. Would that have been driven mostly by this Tier 1 launch? Or would you just say it's more broad-based?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [33]

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More broad-based.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [34]

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Okay. One more question. In the deck, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, I think you said that spring purchase market is off to a good start. Just wondered maybe if you can talk about how well you see your Tier 1 bank customers participate in that. I mean one of the things, I think, investors have been looking for is the large Tier 1s getting active in purchase origination and wondering if you could just provide your view on that.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [35]

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Yes. It's early in the spring, but I would say that we've seen robust and encouraging signs from our -- from regulated banks. I think it's too short of a period of time to sort of block that in as a trend. But we are seeing that play out. You saw some of it in certain lenders that reported last quarter where they had strength on a year-over-year basis relative to the rest of the pack. So I think that there is the sign of the turning on the heat, and we're certainly seeing that in some of the numbers. But it is early in the market, and I think you need to give it some more time to see if that trend has moved upwards.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [36]

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Okay. And maybe just 2 more quick questions. The Tier -- or the top-100 lenders, the 2 that you added in the quarter, how many should we think of as being remaining? I mean you used the number 60. I think you're above that now, but realistically could you get to 100? Or is there a realistic number of the top 100 you'd be targeting?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [37]

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Yes. So the lenders move around in the rankings from time to time. And I think we're focused on good quality, large and growing, sustainable lenders regardless on whether or not they are a bank or a nonbank. So I think to that end, we would never see 100. Out of 100, some come and go all the time. And so there are still clients for us to win there and share the gain, and we're laser-focused on those. So I would expect to see more new client wins going forward.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [38]

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At this point, is the opportunity greater in growing the wallet share with those existing top 100? Or is it better adding to the number of customers at this point, now that you've got all the Tier 1s and a good chunk of the Tier -- top 100?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [39]

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For sure. I mean we could double our market share and achieve our 2021 objectives without adding any new clients based on the current customers' even share of the market. So we've got that runway, and we focus on operational performance which launches it. But I think there's additional clients for us to be additive to that.

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Robert Young, Canaccord Genuity Limited, Research Division - Director [40]

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Last one for me, and I'll pass the line. You talked about the lag in the title business. I just wondered if you could maybe describe that a little more. You said that the rate benefit that you've seen in March is likely to impact Q3 and then moderate down in Q4 based on what you see now. What is that lag? And maybe you could just talk a little bit about that, and I'll pass the line.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [41]

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Sure. On the title side of the business, when rates drop, it's first refi activity. And so we'll see new orders come in, and we certainly saw that in March. And -- however, they may take into the next month before the deal will actually close when we recognize the revenue. So that certainly -- that activity in March is not in our Q2 numbers and will play forward into our Q3, specifically in April. I think the rates have moved back up since then and back to where we were expecting them to be, which is still not a headwind from a year-over-year perspective. And we'll watch them closely, but our view when we go into Q4 is that we sort of stay in the rate scenario that we're in now or even a little bit stronger, higher rates versus lower. If we see rates go lower, we'd see that pick up again. But that' how the new order volume with a delayed closing and recognizing of the revenue plays through in our numbers.

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Operator [42]

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And your next question comes from the line of Steven Li from Raymond James.

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Steven Li, Raymond James Ltd., Research Division - SVP [43]

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Do you have an appraisal market share for the quarter?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [44]

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We don't. We will be updating that at the end of the year. But our 15% market-adjusted growth is a proxy for that.

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Steven Li, Raymond James Ltd., Research Division - SVP [45]

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Right. Okay. That's good. And also, Jason, your early Tier 1 customers in appraisal, so those that's been live with you for a couple of years now, do you continue to add market share or has it started to plateau?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [46]

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No, we've continued to drive market share within our client base. Absolutely.

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Steven Li, Raymond James Ltd., Research Division - SVP [47]

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So even those that's been with you a few years now?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [48]

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That's correct. There's other channel -- there's other opportunities, so we're focused on new opportunities with our clients. Our amazing performance opens up doors and pushes that market share discussion, so -- especially in a competitive market -- purchase market like this spring. So we're continuing to move forward.

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Steven Li, Raymond James Ltd., Research Division - SVP [49]

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Okay. And then when we think of Tier 1s mortgage market share, have you seen any kind of recovery there or still too early?

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [50]

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Yes. We've seen some encouraging signs here in the last sort of while, but not long enough to sort of state a trend. And I would sort of make that comment about regulated banks in total, but certainly early days to weigh the trend there.

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Operator [51]

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And there are no further questions in queue at this time. I'll turn the call back over to our presenters for some closing remarks.

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Jason Smith, Real Matters Inc. - Founder, President, CEO & Director [52]

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Well thank you, operator. That wraps things up for today. Thank you for joining our call. Have a great day.

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Operator [53]

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This concludes today's conference. You may now disconnect.