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Edited Transcript of THOMASCOOK.NSE earnings conference call or presentation 7-Aug-19 9:30am GMT

Q1 2020 Thomas Cook (India) Ltd Earnings Call

Mumbai Dec 11, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Thomas Cook (India) Ltd earnings conference call or presentation Wednesday, August 7, 2019 at 9:30:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Debasis Nandy

Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group

* Madhavan Karunakaran Menon

Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange

* Mahesh Iyer

Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director

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Conference Call Participants

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* Abhijit R. Akella

IIFL Research - VP

* Mohit Khanna

Future Generali India Life Insurance Company Limited - Sr. Manager of Equity Research

* Sarvajeet Bodas

Equitymaster Agora Research Private Limited - Analyst

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Thomas Cook India Limited Q1 FY '20 Earnings Conference Call hosted by IIFL Capital Limited. (Operator Instructions) Please note that this conference is being recorded.

I now hand the conference over to Mr. Abhijit Akella from IIFL Capital Limited. Thank you, and over to you.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [2]

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Thank you, Mohsin. Ladies and gentlemen, a very good afternoon, and thank you for joining us on the Q1 FY '20 Post-Results Conference Call of Thomas Cook India Limited. My name is Abhijit Akella. I'm the mid-caps analyst at IIFL. And it's my pleasure to introduce the senior management team of the Thomas Cook Group, who are here with us to discuss the results. We'll begin the call with opening remarks by Mr. Madhavan Menon, Chairman and Managing Director, following which we'll open up the call for a Q&A session.

I'd now like to hand the call over to Mr. Menon to take it forward. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [3]

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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. First of all, let me just sort of introduce the team that is a part of this call. I have Mahesh Iyer, who is the CEO of Thomas Cook India; I have Vishal Suri, who is the Managing Director of SOTC; I believe Mr. Dipak Deva, who is the Managing Director of TCI is also on this call; Brijesh -- sorry, Debasis Nandy, who is the Group CFO for the Thomas Cook Group; Brijesh Modi who is the CFO for Thomas Cook India; and Abraham Alapatt who Heads up Marketing as well as Investor Relations at Thomas Cook India.

Let me sort of go straight with my opening comments. And thereafter, we'll leave it to Debasis, Mahesh and the rest of the team to first of all provide you with the necessary answers to your questions and clarifications that may be required.

So I think the first point I want to reiterate is the fact that I want to clarify regarding the ownership of Thomas Cook India Limited. I'm sure many of you know that, in the year 2012, Thomas Cook plc sold Thomas Cook India Limited at the time or because they were facing certain financial problems and sold us to Fairfax Financial Holdings. Fairfax Financial Holdings has held us since 2012 as a majority shareholder, today own 67-odd percent of Thomas Cook India Limited and made us a holding company, which actually allowed us to make the necessary acquisitions in the 7-year period starting August 2012.

As far as the relationship between Thomas Cook India Limited and Thomas Cook India Group and Thomas Cook plc, Thomas Cook India by itself never -- had never had any business relationship with Thomas Cook -- with Thomas Cook plc. However, TCI, through its branch, SITA, did have a relationship with Thomas Cook plc until about 1.5 years ago. And as on date, the only financial transaction between Thomas Cook India and Thomas Cook plc is the brand license fee of approximately INR 2 crores that we pay every year. There are no receivables. And I'd like to reiterate that there is no other business relationship between us.

A second point I want to point out is the fact that if you look at our balance sheet as of June 30, you will note that we had a significant amount of cash sitting on our balance sheet. So let me just sort of take you through this number. So if I look at cash and cash equivalents at a consolidated level, we had INR 1,389 crores, and we had debt of INR 348 crores. Therefore, the net cash position at a consolidated level is INR 1,050 crores.

If I look at the stand-alone entity, Thomas Cook India Limited, the cash and cash equivalents was INR 939 crores -- or INR 940 crores with no outstanding debt. If you look at these numbers and compare them to the June -- the March 31 number, you will note that there has been a significant improvement in the cash position. And while this can be attributed to the fact that we have the outbound season, which allows us to collect cash -- the B2C businesses collect cash, and their payments are made over a period of time. And while this number will -- can go through some changes, I can assure you that our cash position, be it at a consolidated level or at a net-net position level, will never drop below INR 900 crores.

A third point which I want to make, is the incident relating to one of our competitors, Cox & Kings. As you are aware, they have been in the news over the last 45 days for a variety of cash -- liquidity-related problems that they have faced. We have absolutely no clarity on what their numbers look like. And all we do know is that they've got a significant amount of debt and possibly other items on their balance sheet, which are a great cause of concern to us. And therefore, I'd like to state absolutely that we have no interest in even examining this particular company, simply because we believe that acquiring a company like this, in the absence of any clarity or numbers, will find -- make it difficult for us to value the company.

And secondly, our belief is that you're only buying debt and a brand that has already been damaged due to the various defaults and the multiple banking relationships that they have. So ladies and gentlemen, I just want to clarify we have no interest in Cox & Kings. And therefore, I would leave it at that. And I'm reiterating all these points because we've seen a lot of speculation over the last 45 days about our relationship to Thomas Cook plc, about the fact as to how strong our balance sheet is and, lastly, about Cox & Kings.

So with that, I will end my statement. I'm going to hand over to Mahesh and -- to make some comments before we move into questions.

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [4]

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Thanks, Madhavan. So quickly to take you through a summary of our operating performances and I think I'd like to draw your attention to the stand-alone performance to begin with. You would have seen that in our press notes, we've mentioned, this was one of the most turbulent quarters that we have seen -- witnessed in the hospitality industry or, more important, the travel industry for a long time.

Prime events, one, the going down of Jet Airways that happened on the -- on -- somewhere around the 27th of April 2019, followed by the Easter attacks in Sri Lanka that happened in May of 2019. Both these events had an impact on our business. And just to kind of clarify as to how those impacts panned out for us, you will appreciate the fact that April to June is the peak of our holiday -- our outbound holiday season. We do pick up inventories. And Jet Airways, as you know, operated 119 aircraft, and the segments that they operate, more importantly, into the European market, which is about 70% of our portfolio during this period, comprises of 2 large hubs, which is Amsterdam and London.

We had both organizations, SOTC and Thomas Cook, both the brands that we operate on this space, had inventory on them, and those inventories were booked at a price, and we had issued tickets for the customer on them. Clearly, you will appreciate the fact that for customers who have booked with us in April until about -- starting in October until about April, and when an airline goes down and you are carrying an inventory on them and that air ticket is no more valid, you are actually required to go out and pick up other airline tickets to service the requirement of the customer.

On account of that, we ended up paying a higher airfare, as you will appreciate that airfare during the period of May and June spooked a lot. Actually, there was about 40% hike in airline fares and which was witnessed also in the domestic market because a lot of aircraft that we operate in this market also went up around. So clearly, the impact of that has kind of resulted into impact on the stand-alone numbers to the extent of about INR 51 million. The attack on Lanka where we operate both the inbound business to our brand, Luxe Asia, which caters to our outbound traffic from India as well as inbound traffic from rest of the world and the Foreign Exchange business had a huge impact.

We actually saw our bookings dip by 70% for the period of May and June. And on the Foreign Exchange side, we saw about 45% dip in volumes that we would normally do in this market. So clearly, the twin impact of these 2 took off roughly about INR 7.5 crores from the stand-alone numbers. And to add to that, the impact of Ind AS 116 on a stand-alone basis had an impact of about INR [11.3] crores. So collectively, we see an impact of roughly INR 8.5 crores that's come and sat into this overall numbers, and that explains the reason why we are looking at a flat growth.

What I would like to highlight here that despite this flat PAT that you're looking at here, there are some silver linings. In fact, the Foreign Exchange business had a very good run. And we will see that in the segmental business, and I'll talk about that in a bit when there are questions around it. We had a very strong run on the Foreign Exchange business, more importantly driven both by the retail and the wholesale business. In fact, our card portfolio really fired very well, and our penetration on the card portfolio actually improved this quarter from about 76% to 78%. And then we are now nearing to almost close to 80%, which is a very strong sign, building a sustainable portfolio on this piece.

We also had strong performance coming from our Corporate Travel business, which is the B2B side of the travel. And not only higher volumes, but our yields also improved considering the fact that we were doing higher throughput, obviously, aided by the fact that we had higher airline fares. So obviously, that did help us. And obviously, the segments that we sold was also much higher. The MICE, which is again a B2B business, saw a very robust growth. Overall, we had about 30% growth on the MICE top line sales, and our margins continue to hold good on that business. So -- and you will appreciate the fact that we had the cricketing event that concluded in the month of June. So clearly, that kind of spiked volumes during this period.

So we had a good run on the 3 businesses, which is Foreign Exchange, MICE and Corporate Travel. The outbound did take an impact of the airline going out of business and the impact on Sri Lanka business. Other than that, I think, overall, on a stand-alone basis, we had a fairly decent quarter. And despite these challenges, we managed to hold our ground and get to a number which is very similar to what we reported last year. And as Madhavan emphasized, our focus has been on conserving capital, and our cash and bank balance actually improved from our position on March to June.

Looking forward, we've said that we anticipate a bit of a headwind coming into this industry. There is a general economic slowdown that we are witnessing across the board. We have customers or industries that we operate in, which is automobiles, paints, FMCGs, we operate into the financial services sector. And I'm sure all of you all read this more than what we do. There is this message around slowdown, the economic impact of that's coming into play. We have witnessed a slowdown into our forward bookings also. What we used to look at about 20-odd percent that we spoke about early May is now beginning to wane off. We are now actually looking at about 9%, 10% growth. And this impact of slowdown is visible into our forward bookings also.

So we remain cautiously optimistic. There are green shoots of some parts available in some parts of the business. Obviously, a part of the competition getting out of the business gives an opportunity for us to go down and milk that segment, but that's something when we do our summer launch in September of 2019 we'll actually go back and look at that segment. In the immediate future, we see an impact on the yields, and we have an opportunity to kind of improve our yields in both on the Corporate Travel side, on the leisure side and also on the MICE side, because the competition being squeezed for capital. We have a lot of customers talking to us, and we are nitpicking the customers that we want to work with. So we remain cautiously optimistic about it, but I just want to give a message saying that we are seeing the impact of some amount of slowdown that's beginning to show into our forward bookings also.

Debasis, you want to take on the consolidated numbers?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [5]

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Yes. Sure. Good afternoon. This is Debasis here. So I'll -- my share is taking you through the overall business environment and the results for Thomas Cook India. I'll now quickly take you -- take the next few minutes to take you through the comparable numbers at a consolidated level.

So our total income from operations grew by about 5.5% from INR 2,100 crores to about INR 2,216 crores. At the EBITDA level, it was fairly flat. We've moved from over INR 98.6 crores to INR 99.4 crores. So -- and the margins -- EBITDA margin remained more or less steady. At a PBT level, our -- there's been -- you'll see some switch-arounds in the depreciation interest line because -- primarily because as a reclass effect of Ind AS 116. At a PBT level, we degrew from INR 65 crores to about INR 42 crores, and I will come to some of that. Some of that expansion has been given by Mahesh already, and I talk a little bit more a little later.

In terms of -- if you look at the segment results, we have had a very good quarter as far the financial services or the ForEx business is concerned. It grew by 11% -- the revenues grew by 11% from INR 73 crores to INR 81 crores. The travel businesses grew about 5.2% from INR 1,938 crores close to INR 2039 crores. And vacation ownership, the Sterling business grew by about 8.7% in the same period. DEI, which is not in the comparative results but is there in the reported, achieved a turnover of INR 117 crores during the quarter. There is no comparable number. We did the acquisition, as you know, on 31st of March of this year.

In terms of EBIT, financial services or the ForEx service grew by 47%. It went up from INR 24 crores last year to INR 35.5 crores. So that's the very impressive increase that we have had. And clearly, the strategy that Mahesh has been talking about in the earlier conference calls has been paying off. The travel and related services actually went down by about 20% -- 21%. That's primarily -- and let me spend just 2 minutes on that. I think this is a low quarter as far as the inbound business and the DMS business is concerned.

These are -- between the 2, this is a large business. Its annualized revenue or annualized turnover from these 2 businesses is about INR 2,000 crores. And April to June is a low quarter for this business. So that is a -- this is a time when they run into losses, and the losses of the inbound business is being offset against the profits from the other parts. So while the other segments -- other parts -- other segments within this or subsegments within this have been profitable, the -- it has been -- the sheen has been taken away by the impact of the -- impact of these businesses.

Now on the vacation ownership, which is Sterling, which is -- EBIT went down from about -- went -- actually, the losses went down at EBIT level at INR 5.8 crores to INR 4.7 crores, but that's largely due to the impact of the Ind AS. If you look at the PBT level, post-adjustment for Ind AS, Sterling remained at the same level as last year, which is around INR 8.5 crores.

So I will just talk a bit more about the travel segments. So in terms of travel segments, the outbound business, which was -- we delivered a turnover of INR 1,125 crores this year, which represents roughly about a 6%, 7% growth over last year. The growth was higher in the Thomas Cook segment and as has been explained I think muted in SOTC. The -- obviously, the 2 brands have different sort of pulls during the -- in the same period. We talked about the inbound. The inbound business, actually, the sales reduced from INR 66 crores to INR 60 crores. That's primarily because the charter -- a little fall in the charter business from Russia and also one particular client whose business we did not get this year.

In case of MICE, the overall business across the 2 brands went up from 400 -- went up to INR 421 crores from INR 375 crores. That's a growth of over 12%. Corporate Travel delivered impressive increase in revenue to INR 42 crores, which is -- INR 42.7 crores, a 31% increase from last year. This, by the way, also includes INR 1.1 crores on account of ACI's benefits. And the DMS business turnover grew by about 14% to about INR 397 crores during this period.

That's the snapshot of the quarter. I would like to open up this meeting to any questions that you may have.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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(Operator Instructions) We have our first question from the line of [Anuj Jain from Globe Capital].

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Unidentified Analyst, [2]

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Sir, I just want to know the status of our demerger, which we are going through with Quess Corp. Can you give some clarity over that? When we are going to complete that?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [3]

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Okay. So the current status is that, as you know, the matter is already in the NCLT. The NCLT has asked us to convene a shareholders meeting, which is scheduled on the 4th of September for Thomas Cook. And -- so post that, once that -- they also allowed us to dispense off with the creditors meeting, which means that shareholders meeting is the only meeting that we need to do. Once we get the formal approval from the shareholders at the NCLT convene meeting, we go back to NCLT and await the closure of the proceedings. So in short, we expect the matter to close within the month of October, within 2 months from -- basically within 2 months from the time of the shareholders meeting. Balance Quess is having a shareholders meeting. I think it's tomorrow. And they would also complete the similar process in the Bangalore NCLT.

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Unidentified Analyst, [4]

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Okay. So we don't require any other approval apart from shareholder approval?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [5]

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No. We don't really need any other approval. You have to -- of course, you have to go back to ROC, et cetera, as and when directed by the NCLT, but that's part of the NCLT process. It's a question of time. It doesn't really take -- it doesn't takes time.

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Unidentified Analyst, [6]

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Okay. My next question, sir, like we hold -- Thomas Cook holds 48% in Quess Corp. So that is an associate company. So do we have the effect of the results -- the impact of the Quess Corp results in the consolidated one? Or we don't count that -- those results into the consolidated results?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [7]

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So we do take that. We have to take -- we hold 49% in Quess, and we do have to take the impact of that in our results. But if you look at the consolidated results, share of profit -- if you take Item #8 on that, which is the share of profit of associates...

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Unidentified Analyst, [8]

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Yes, it's INR 4 crores.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [9]

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I'm sorry?

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Unidentified Analyst, [10]

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It's INR 4 crores, INR 4 crores figure, INR 4.5-something crores.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [11]

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INR 4.3 cores. INR 4.3 cores is the amount that's there.

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Unidentified Analyst, [12]

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Okay. That is the Quess Corp?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [13]

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That is Quess Corp.

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Operator [14]

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(Operator Instructions) We have our next question from the line of Mr. [Rohith Potti, Marshmallow Capital].

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Unidentified Analyst, [15]

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Sir, my first question is on Sterling. So I mean, as I can see, this quarter has been an outlier on the operational indicators. We have average unit realization going up. Resort occupancy going up quite steeply from 60-odd percent to 80-odd percent. The ARRs are up quite well. And then we have a little higher -- a small -- the room number is also higher. But despite that, the numbers don't look -- do justice -- I mean, the profit and loss numbers don't seem to indicate -- seem to reflect the positivity in the operational indicators. Is it possible for you to share the cash flow number? Are they substantially better this time around?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [16]

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I don't have the -- I'm sorry, but I don't have the cash flow numbers of Sterling available with me right away. But I will -- we'll get back to you on that one. Having said that, you see there are 2 distinct segments within the Sterling business. One is the timeshare business and the other is the, what they call, the resort operations, so basically renting out of rooms as a hotel would too. So the higher occupancy that you see, 82%, in this particular quarter as opposed to actually 77% last year same quarter is on account of the -- this is the holiday season, obviously, and that is causing an uptick. And -- but a lot of that is happening on account of renting out of rooms to third-parties.

The growth in the timeshare part of the segment is still muted. But for the -- I think for the first time in the last 4 quarters, we saw an increase -- year-on-year increase in the number of memberships. So they added about 780 members -- 782 members during this quarter, so -- which is better than the -- much better than what was happening in the past. But -- so one part of the business is -- has sort of -- is kicking in, and that's what is helping it to sort of showing some improvement in the results. The timeshare part hasn't kicked in, and therefore we don't see an uptick in the business. Having said that, we also know that increasingly Sterling would move away from the timeshare model and move more and more into a B2B and a B2C hospitality model.

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Unidentified Analyst, [17]

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Understood. And is Sterling self-sustaining right now?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [18]

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Yes. It doesn't need any cash. It has a negligible debt, debt of about INR 70 crores, which they're repaying over a period of time. So they are self-sustaining. Their cash flows are enough to -- they have enough to manage the operations. They do not need any support from Thomas Cook.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [19]

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And I think a lot of their debt is in the form of securitization.

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Unidentified Analyst, [20]

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Okay, understood. That's helpful. Next question, I mean, this particular figure that we share is quite helpful. The free cash flow figure of around INR 250 crores that we generate annually that you share with us. Now the question I have around that is that I think over the last 3 to 4 years this number has broadly remained same. But if I see, operationally or qualitatively over the last 3, 4 years, you've been mentioning how -- I mean, you have done a few acquisitions which have been turning around, the DMS being the example, then we have the loss-making business of Internet -- I mean, the E-business as well as the domestic which is turning around. So with a lot of positive movement qualitatively in most of the segments that we operate in, despite that, the free cash flow number has broadly remained stagnant. So could you help me understand why it's not increased?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [21]

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Sure. So you see, what happens is when we started, we embarked upon the cash flow journey, obviously, the -- we attack the low-hanging fruits which are in the nature of improvements or optimization of working capital. So we set about how to improve our debtors position, how to manage our payables position better, use instruments, not by deferring payments, but by using instruments to pay our creditors and also reducing the cash holding that is there in the ForEx business, which is the inventory for the ForEx business. Now that -- since those are not looked at previously, that started giving us a lot of yields in initial years. So a better part -- in the first few years, the better part of the free cash flow came in from working capital improvements.

As we progressed on this journey, obviously, the improvement in working capital -- opportunities for improvement in working capital are getting more limited, and the bigger part is -- started coming from the profits of the business, which is why -- it is more of a coincidence that things have sort of balanced out in the INR 200 crores, INR 250 crores range and -- which looks like stagnation to an outsider. But if you look at the composition, actually, we see an improvement because what's more important in a cash flow journey is how much of that cash flow comes in from the profits rather than looking at the overall number. So today, a bigger part is coming in from the profits as compared to what it was when we started this journey, and we expect that to grow.

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Unidentified Analyst, [22]

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Okay. Understood. And could you speak to the profitability of the incubated businesses? How are they progressing, the DMS, the E-business and the domestic business?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [23]

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Okay. So on the DMS side, again, as I mentioned right in the beginning, it's a low quarter for DMS as comparable to the inbound business that we had. The nature of the business is the same. And for the DMS business, which caters mostly to the European market, the bigger quarter is the July, September and the subsequent quarter, which is when the European holidays happen. So this is a quarter where -- their turnover did increase because of expanding the -- because expansion of the business, but the profitability was muted. We also -- the reduction -- there is a drop in the MICE business, which is more like a timing -- MICE business in that segment within DMS, which is more like a timing issue. And consequently, while the turnover grew by about 14%, as I mentioned, the profitability did not.

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Unidentified Analyst, [24]

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No. So it's not the quarterly numbers that -- I mean, that's okay. That's absolutely fine. I understand some low quarters. So I'm just wondering, on an annualized basis going forward, do you see it generating cash -- free cash this year onwards? Or do you think it will extend into the next year? I mean, DMS as a business contributing to the free cash flow of the business.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [25]

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We expect the DMS business to be at breakeven for the financial -- for the current financial year. It might generate -- it will probably generate a small amount of cash, but I don't think the generation of cash at this stage will be substantial. These work on -- actually, these businesses work on very low working capital. So the cash flow will come primarily out of profit. So we expect the cash flows -- first cash flows to really come out -- substantial cash flows to come out from FY '21 and not the current year, which is FY '20.

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Unidentified Analyst, [26]

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And similarly, could you give the details on domestic and E-business as well?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [27]

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Okay. On the -- E-business is part of the overall Thomas Cook entity. So E-business is -- we expect the E-business to turn around this year and sort of achieve breakeven. Domestic will, as we mentioned in -- even the last call, will probably take a little more time because this year, the summer season, which is one of the key seasons for the domestic business, we did see airfares shooting up substantially, and that this deter people from taking domestic holidays. So the growth in the domestic portion was more muted.

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Unidentified Analyst, [28]

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Got it. So this is the last question from me. So the free cash flow number of INR 250 crores that you talk about is inclusive of the cash that is taken in by DMS, E-business and domestic side, right?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [29]

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Yes. Yes. Of course. Of course. And just to fill you in on the DEI portion which we did not mention, which is the last acquisition that we made. So this is the first quarter. Again, for DEI, this is a low season because a large portion of the business comes in from the Middle East and because of Ramadan and summer. This is not the tourism season over there. So we -- even then they delivered about INR 118 crores of turnover there -- in terms of -- let me just talk about a few operating parameters there. In terms of number of transactions, they did about 1.2 million transactions against 0.9 million transactions last year same quarter. The number of sites they operated in went up to 226 from 192 last year. Therefore, the average realization was fairly similar to last year. Last year, they did average realization of $18 per click against about $16. The deduction is attributable to the opening up of new sites. And consequently, when you -- obviously, when you open up a new site, you need to offer some promotional packages, et cetera, which reduces the initial average realization. But you can see from the volume growth, the business is on the uptick. The second half of the year or rather the -- the second half of the calendar year is actually better for them. So we expect to show the growth, et cetera, in the next 6 months' time.

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Operator [30]

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(Operator Instructions) We have the next question from the line of Abhijit Akella from IIFL Capital.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [31]

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Just a few clarifications I wanted to seek. One is on the cash and bank balances which you spoke about at the beginning of the call. So the net cash figure that I got is about INR 1,050 crores right now in June. Could you just give us the comparable number as of March as well?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [32]

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Give me a minute, Abhijit.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [33]

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INR 850-something crores.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [34]

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I think it was about INR 850 cores, but let me just -- yes, I've got the number. It's about INR 800 crores -- and net debt was INR 849 crores.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [35]

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Yes. Net cash was INR 849 crores as of March and now it's about INR 1,050 crores.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [36]

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INR 1,050 crores, right.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [37]

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Correct. So about INR 200 crores we've added during the quarter. You say this is kind of in line with what you normally see during 1Q or has this been a bit better than you'd normally see?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [38]

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So it also depends a bit on the seasonality. March and June are not really comparable, as you know. So it's good to have there attrition, but I would not say that we'll add INR 200 crores every quarter. I would not go to that conclusion, Abhijit. It can -- see, this is also the peak season. It might -- we'll also have to make supplier payments, et cetera. So it will go down, Madhavan said that. But he also mentioned that any point of time the overall cash balance will not go down below INR 800 crores. So we go by that guidance.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [39]

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Sure. Second, on DEI, would it be possible to share the 1Q numbers of last year that they reported in terms of revenues and earnings?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [40]

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I don't have it right now, Abhijit. We'll probably have a separate one-on-one later. Okay. We did not -- it's not part of the reported results and, therefore, we don't have it right now.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [41]

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Okay. Sure. And on the Ind AS 116 impact, if it's possible for you to just help us understand. How much was the increase in EBITDA because of that versus how much was the increase in D&A and finance cost?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [42]

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Yes. So at overall level, depreciation charge on account of Ind AS went up by about INR 14 crores -- INR 14.7 crores to be precise. The increase in interest -- the change in interest charge was about INR 4.6 crores. Both of these were positives. The savings -- sorry, both of these were increases. The savings in lease rental expenses were about INR 16.7 crores. Overall, the gap that opened up was about INR 2.6 crores. The net impact of PBT.

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Abhijit R. Akella, IIFL Research - VP [43]

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Got it. Very, very helpful. One last thing, quick thing for Mahesh, maybe, and I'll come back in queue. Mahesh, just on the ForEx business, there's been this new website called, I think, FX-Retail, which has been started by the government -- The Clearing Corporation. And there's been talk that it might make it much easier for individuals and small businesses to transact directly at very low cost. So do you see this as a potential threat to your ForEx business? And what are your thoughts on this move in general?

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [44]

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So Abhijit, honestly, I don't see that as a threat at all. And I think we must read that circular a lot more carefully. It actually opens up the window for exporters and importers, and that's where you're talking about transactions, which run into a few hundred thousand dollars and stuff like that. If you look at the retail transaction, we are talking about $500 to $1,000. And as you will appreciate that in the retail business, KYC norms are very, very stricter. And you need to have a vetting signature and you are then dependent on a bank to do the ultimate fulfillment, which is currently the platform as it stands. And our understanding is that it's going to be fulfilled out of a bank. While The Clearing Corporation will facilitate a platform, final fulfillment is going to happen out of a bank. We'll appreciate that a lot of banks do not deal with currency notes. We are the largest consolidator of currency notes in this part of the world.

So clearly, banks depend on us to get the currency notes. So I actually see an opportunity. Honestly, to be very frank, a lot of -- I would say -- I don’t want to call them black marketers, but a lot of mom-and-pop shops that actually operate in this space may actually find it very difficult to operate. But let's understand this. As a retail customer, would you want to block a rate somewhere and then be told by the banker go to this branch maybe 10 kilometers away and then pick up that currency? It may not happen. So I really don't see this as any threat. But clearly, from an opportunity point of view, we will put in our bid to be a part of that Clearing Corporation site because we also see that as an opportunity because if there are customers coming out of that platform, I will also bid. And honestly, there are no free lunches here. These are prices which are parity to market prices. And I really see that as an opportunity for a good level playing field to come in. And I'll appreciate more operators who've got some backing to be on that platform rather than to deal with some of the mom-and-pop shops, which currently can kind of mushroom some of the trades that happen in some buckets.

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Operator [45]

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We have the next question from the line of Sarvajeet Bodas from Equitymaster.

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Sarvajeet Bodas, Equitymaster Agora Research Private Limited - Analyst [46]

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My first question is related to Sri Lanka business. Sir, do you see any signs of pickup after the terror attacks which happened in April? So how the business -- is business normalizing now? Could you please show some...

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [47]

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Sarvajeet, a little too early to say that we are starting to see normalcy. But yes, I can say that the kind of curfew and tension that we saw in the month of May and June have started to wane off a little. Life is getting to a bit of a normalcy. Please understand that it takes a little bit time for customer confidence to come back to kind of traveling to that market because you don't want to be getting into a country where there are gun-wielding cops or security forces pointing guns at you and checking you 4 times over right from the time you get out of the aircraft to get out of the airport and then at every point you have checked 3 times over. So clearly, that doesn't augur very well for an experiential bit of business that we are in.

So it's going to take some time. Our belief is that it's not going to happen so quickly. But yes, the 70% drop that we saw in May and June has now kind of steadily improved slightly. We are now talking about (technical difficulty). Sorry, I think there was a disturbance. So I think we are seeing now -- on the travel side we are seeing that degrowth has reduced from about 70 to about 50. And on the ForEx side, actually, the traffic is out of the airport, so it's going to be a function of how tourists starts coming in. A little too early to predict that number. It's really going to be. So tourism as a market in that space has actually taken a beating. We've seen a 15% degrowth in the overall traffic that came into that country. So it will take a little -- my guess is that it's somewhere around December -- that the last quarter of calendar year '19 is when we should potentially see some uptick that can happen in that market.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [48]

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Sarvajeet, let me just -- Madhavan Menon here. Let me just add that the Sri Lankan government is going out of its way to promote the destination. If you check the system, you will see that they are offering very attractive rates. In fact, we have launched a package, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, it's $130 for 4 nights, which is unheard of even within India. So -- and you're talking of prime accommodation. You're not talking of 1-star or 2-star. So our belief is that as we go on through the promotion, they will actually pick up traffic. We are also privy to information that there has been a decline in cancellations that they're receiving from the world over for the period September through December. So my expectation is that there will be some rejuvenation in that market in the short term.

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Sarvajeet Bodas, Equitymaster Agora Research Private Limited - Analyst [49]

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Okay. Okay. That is helpful. And sir, the second question is on Sterling. So Mr. Debasis mentioned moving towards B2B and B2C model. So could you highlight some about the model, and why you are not focusing on timeshare?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [50]

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So Sarvajeet -- so...

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [51]

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Do you want me to answer?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [52]

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Yes. Fine.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [53]

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Okay. Let me take that question, Sarvajeet. I sit on the Board, so I can most probably enlighten you a little more on that. It's not that we are dropping the vacation model at all. It's just that given the change in the accounting standards that we saw a year ago that required us to remodel our products, and those are slowly getting launched into the market. We are also there -- have got several initiatives to try and ramp up the vacation ownership model. But you will appreciate that the demand on domestic holidays, especially hotels, has grown significantly over the last couple of years. And there clearly is an opportunity which Sterling is riding on and therefore is able to post higher occupancy as well as meet the higher ARR that they're able to generate. So in my opinion, they're looking at a mixed model. But the opportunity lies in hotel sales, and they'll continue to capitalize on that.

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Operator [54]

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We have the next question from the line of Mr. Mohit Khanna from Future Generali.

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Mohit Khanna, Future Generali India Life Insurance Company Limited - Sr. Manager of Equity Research [55]

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I just -- I don't know if you have already commented on it. How are you seeing the market being opened up after a big player, the competitor, has shut the shop? And do you see the traction on the revenue front? Or do you see more of it on the margin front? If you could just talk a little bit about it.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [56]

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So Mohit, I think it's very early days. We are barely 40 days into the -- since the first default. I think customers, be it retail as well as corporate, are still figuring out what is going on in terms of the default on the part of the company. My belief is that we will start seeing traction a little quicker in the corporate side where we have received feelers from various corporates. And you'll appreciate we would want to be careful in this space by picking and choosing corporates who are willing to pay the margins that we are looking at. As far as the retail side is concerned, I think we will start seeing the first signs in the period September to December, which is around both the Diwali as well as the other holidays in the festive season. So my expectation is that we will see some inquiries coming in at that stage. But this is -- it's too early very honestly to predict this.

But just to go back to your question, I think, let me just sort of answer it in a different manner. The minute we heard about the defaults we actually focused on 2 things, which Mahesh alluded to earlier. One is yield management. So we pulled out all discounts from the market, both at an SOTC as well as Thomas Cook level. Simultaneously, we also went out from a perspective of conserving our capital. We started cutting credit lines to our customers in various segments. I mean while we've retained the credit norms for the best company, but in reality we are examining credit terms for anything and everything that we offer to both corporates as well as our vendor -- sorry, as well as our channel partners. We're making sure that we focus and diligently look at that to ensure that we don't suffer from any impact -- the collateral impact. You'll appreciate with Jet Airways stopping and a major competitor stopping, the ripple effect in the travel industry is going to exist. And therefore, we are braced for that, and we are watching it very carefully.

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Mohit Khanna, Future Generali India Life Insurance Company Limited - Sr. Manager of Equity Research [57]

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Fair enough. I mean, I just heard a view that with the competition going down sooner or later this should turn out to be in our favor because there's -- and on the other hand, Ebix seems to be very aggressive, acquiring companies, setting up shops and trying to introduce different models after they bought Yatra.com recently. So anything on that front? Any comment or any competition that you're seeing or that will be helpful.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [58]

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So, Mohit, let me go back to your first statement. I share your view that things should happen, but what I told you was that, that it's too early to see any signs of it as yet. We expect it to happen, but I think I will wait and watch as to how this is exactly going to happen. We believe that corporate customers will switch. We believe that retail customers will also switch, and we will ride that hopefully on higher margins. On the issue of Ebix, very honestly, I don't understand enough of what they're trying to achieve. And it would be unfair for me to sort of comment on their strategy. I do agree with you that they've been aggressive, but I will only comment on the fact that they bought a whole lot of diverse businesses, and it will be interesting to see as to how they will either integrate or string a needle through each of these businesses to make them work together. We are waiting and watching. But if you look at -- if I can just add one more point. If you actually look at the Foreign Exchange business, ever since they started buying competition more than a year ago, we've actually seen our volumes grow during that period, and we've seen -- and our margins grow also. So we've not really seen any impact of the presence of Ebix companies in our space, in terms of competing with us directly.

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Mohit Khanna, Future Generali India Life Insurance Company Limited - Sr. Manager of Equity Research [59]

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Okay. Also, this is the last thing. So we have this shareholder meeting by NCLT and then the extraordinary meeting lined up quickly coming up. So what happens after this? What's the process after this? And are we still setting a time line for the demerger here?

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [60]

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So we will submit the approvals. There is a process which requires us to inform the Reserve Bank of India, SEBI and then go back to the NCLT with the necessary results. Our expectation is that it should happen sometime at the end of October or early November, but not much later than that. That's the time line that we are working on currently. And I believe Quess is following a parallel pipeline -- time line with us because they're running their approval through the Bangalore NCLT.

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Operator [61]

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We have the next question from the line of [G.C. Rajesh] from Banyan Capital.

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Unidentified Analyst, [62]

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Just a couple of questions on the Travel Services group. If you can speak to the size of the market as you see it, and what's your market share in that?

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [63]

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So this is Mahesh. Let me put it slightly differently. Look, the space that we operate in is the more organized segment. And over there -- when we acquired the assets from Kuoni, which is more importantly SOTC, we had done a survey around the market, and we took some [quasi] data which you'll appreciate the fact that we had to go through a CCI process at that point in time. The combined market share of all organized players put together was less than 5%, yes. But if you were to only compare with the organized player space and the space that we actually play in, I think we will be closer to about 50% of the market. The 2 brands put together will be close to 50% of the market. And then as we have been discussing in the call before with the exit or probably a nearby exit of a close competition, I think we will actually are much -- far more stronger in terms of market share.

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Unidentified Analyst, [64]

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Right. So I -- that's directly where I was going to because if your second largest competitor is imploding, I'm just curious why you are thinking that you'll take some time. Agreed, there is a slowdown, but is there something else you are seeing in the marketplace which you are so, so cautious about the opportunity that we have in front of us?

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [65]

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So the point there is slightly different. What we are trying to say here, Rajesh, is that we don't know how things will pan out. Just to put a case in point, when we were talking to the market before in May, we actually were looking at our forward bookings right through December, spending at about 20% growth. While I'm looking at now, we are actually looking at about 10% growth. So clearly, what has happened in the span of about 4 or 6 weeks, we're actually seeing the forward bookings numbers starting to taper off. That also says to us or tells us that the consumer confidence is a little low. Now while a competition going out of the business will mean there will be an opportunity for us to increase our yields and everything else, but if the consumer sentiments are generally low the market is not going to grow, yes. So there is going to be a challenge at line.

We may see a volume spike, but that may be very temporary. So I'm talking market share and that will be a more conscious concerted effort, which will take some time. Too early to make that judgment call at this point because, as Madhavan said before, we've just seen about 40, 45 days for that event. So we really don't know what -- we're not going with an hypothesis the company is down and under. There could be a hope. There could be a revival. And we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. So clearly, we are watching that space. We are capitalizing on the opportunity that comes in front of us, both in terms of launching new products, getting across to the segments, more importantly, the B2B side of it and focusing on yield management, which is what the opportunity currently we see. But if there are more opportunities coming there, obviously we're going to go with all arms open.

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Unidentified Analyst, [66]

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Great. That's helpful. And then the second question, the Sterling business had a phenomenal quarter, and congratulations on that. So is it something seasonal or that business is now on this wonderful run rate where every metrics is looking so positive?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [67]

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So you're right. Sterling -- the Sterling business looked much better than the other -- the previous quarter because there is a seasonality impact. This is a summer season, the peak season for domestic travel as well as outbound, and therefore, Sterling did get advantage of that. But some of it can also be attributed to the fact that the strategy on becoming a hospitality company is working out in one form or the other. So that's definitely there. I cannot say for sure whether we will see the same amount of volume in the next quarter. But yes, things are getting better over there. And -- but I think it will still take some time for the company to get back into profitability.

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Unidentified Analyst, [68]

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I see. And what kind of synergies do you see between Sterling and our core travel business? And how do you sort of monitor that?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [69]

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So I think, right -- at the outset, I think I must make the statement that we did not invest on Sterling based on synergies. In fact, none of our acquisitions are based on synergies. Synergies is an additional thing. We invest in business based on how they are and what values they are available. Having said that, there are synergies between -- clear synergies between Thomas Cook's travel business and Sterling because we can offer domestic packages to our travelers based on availability of rooms in Sterling. So there are fewer synergies. And as the number of units or number of resorts available with Sterling grows, the synergies will get even stronger.

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Unidentified Analyst, [70]

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So do you track that X percent of the revenue of Sterling came from Thomas Cook companies? Is there a metric like that?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [71]

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I won't say that because our transactions are completely at arm's length, okay? So they sell rooms to us at the same price that they want to sell to our competitors, like MakeMyTrip, for example. So we make our share of the margin in that, and they make their share of the margin. So I won't attribute extra margin on account of being associated with Thomas Cook. Yes, but we do provide them a channel to sell.

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Unidentified Analyst, [72]

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Right. So what is that percentage in terms of channel?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [73]

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I don't think we have the data right now. And I -- it's not likely to be a very, very significant part.

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Unidentified Analyst, [74]

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I see. And lastly, you talked about having a net cash of -- I think you said INR 1,100 crores or something -- or INR 1,050 crores, excuse me.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [75]

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Net debt. Net debt.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [76]

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Net cash.

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Unidentified Analyst, [77]

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Net debt or net cash?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [78]

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Net cash. Yes. Yes.

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Unidentified Analyst, [79]

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Yes. So net cash is INR 1,050 crores. And my question is that how much of that is the customer deposits, which are sitting with you? So if you back out what is the real number of net cash? And what was the same number in the March end?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [80]

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So there will always be some element of customer cash in there, which will -- and March numbers, as I said in my -- in the earlier answer are not comparable to June numbers because the March number -- June numbers will have significantly more amount of customer advances, which are awaiting payment to suppliers. So these numbers are not really comparable. Having said that, I think, obviously, the INR 1,050 crores of cash involves customer advances, includes the float that we have on -- the fixed deposit made out of the float on the BPC or the card -- BPC card. So there are multiple things included in there.

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Unidentified Analyst, [81]

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Right. So I was just trying to understand that the resulting cash that belongs to that customer -- customers which is sitting with us and then there is actual cash which is belonging to us. So if you were to look at this pie of INR 1,000-plus crores, how much is really belonging to the customer if you aggregate whatever you were just describing, the different pockets?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [82]

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So I think we can't ascribe it to customer. If your question is -- I think you're trying to ask me what is the free cash available with the company and not the customer, is my...

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Unidentified Analyst, [83]

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Yes. Exactly. That's right.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [84]

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I'm just trying to get the terminology sorted out of it. So the free cash available...

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Unidentified Analyst, [85]

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Do you think the cash is available for you to do any...

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [86]

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The free cash available to me is -- to us is around INR 100 crores.

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Unidentified Analyst, [87]

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INR 100 crores. Okay.

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [88]

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Yes. Close to about INR 100 crores.

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Operator [89]

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(Operator Instructions) We have the next question from the line of [Anuj Jain from Globe Capital]. We'll move on to the next question Mr. [Debasheel] from One up Financial.

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Unidentified Analyst, [90]

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Sir, my question is on the debt part -- cash and the debt part with the previous participant. You mentioned that free cash available to us is INR 100 crores. So technically, our net debt would be around INR 250 crores. Is that the right way to take it?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [91]

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No. I don't get the calculation actually.

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Unidentified Analyst, [92]

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Sir, the gross debt is INR 350 crores. Cash and equivalents you mentioned that it's INR 1,390 crores. So out of the INR 1,390 crores, free cash available to us is INR 100 crores. So if I just take the free cash available to us at INR 100 crores and the gross debt at INR 350 crores...

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [93]

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No. No. No. Let me explain it in my way. Okay. I think our numbers got a bit mixed up in this. So you are quite right that the cash and cash equivalent is about INR 1,390 crores or close to INR 1,400 crores, very broadly speaking, and about INR 350 crores is the debt. So the resultant number is the -- the net debt is a negative net debt, which means there's the cash available, right? Now part of that, obviously -- now you have to go back to the gross number to understand this. So out of the INR 1,400 crores or close to that number, INR 1,400 crores that are there, about INR 100 crores is something that is free cash. That's what we mentioned. The balance compose of various things. It's -- a large portion of that comes from the float that we have. You are aware that we have a prepaid card. So the float on that constitutes the large portion, and that's the growing component because each year we keep on adding customers and customers to our kitty, and that is the money that's lying in various currencies across various accounts in terms of fixed deposit, et cetera. Part of the money would also be in the form of customer advances, but this will also be set off to some extent by the advances that we pay off to vendors. So it's a mixed bag. Customer advances are -- just like we receive advances from customers, we also lock up our money in terms of various payments and prepayments or advances that we make. So it's a mixed bag, all of that.

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Unidentified Analyst, [94]

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Okay. Sir, in the last call you had mentioned that float is around $60 million. What would be right now as of June?

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [95]

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As of June, we are around $72 million.

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Unidentified Analyst, [96]

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$72 million. So that increased around $10-odd million?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [97]

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Yes, it is.

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Mahesh Iyer, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - CEO & Executive Director [98]

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About 20%. So our volumes from the current quarter went up by about 40%. So we've added about close to 30% of that into our floats.

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Unidentified Analyst, [99]

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Okay. Sure. And also the debt of INR 350 crores would be purely operational, right?

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [100]

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When you say operational, do you mean overdraft?

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Unidentified Analyst, [101]

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No. For the business and not any advances period or...

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Debasis Nandy, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Group CFO for Thomas Cook Group [102]

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No. It is -- the debt is largely for various acquisitions and some amount of debt is operation, which is for the entities which are not in India, for the overseas. The overseas entities need some amount of working capital, and that's in -- that debt consumes part of the INR 350 crores.

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Operator [103]

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Ladies and gentlemen, that was our last question. I now hand the floor back to the management for closing comments.

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Madhavan Karunakaran Menon, Thomas Cook (India) Limited - Chairman, MD & Executive Director - Foreign Exchange [104]

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So thank you, everybody, for participating in today's call. I just sort of like to reiterate a couple of points. We will focus over the next couple of months on keeping -- managing our yields and obviously with -- and looking at a higher margin than what we operate at in both -- in all our B2C businesses. As far as corporates are concerned, we will be very selective where we give credit and therefore conserve more capital. We recognize that the markets are going through a degree of flux due to a variety of reasons, and we need to keep ourselves protected. As far as the competition is concerned, we will watch the competition very carefully, be it a competitor who is facing liquidity problems as well as the aggressive competitor. And we'll keep a close watch on them. And we've been doing this for a long time. So please be rest assured we are fully aware of what is going on. And we'll ensure this thing.

I just missed -- wanted to make one point, which I missed in the beginning. With the NCLT process coming to an end, the company's name change process will begin. We've got a detailed plan. We are required to return the Thomas Cook India name by the end of 2024. So we have a plan to transition out of this name. I think we'll review this based on what will happen to Thomas Cook plc because I think the brand has suffered some element of damage due to the recent events. But we are fully equipped and planned and ready to go through with the change. Thank you very much.

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Operator [105]

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Thank you. On behalf of IIFL Capital Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining the conference, and you may now disconnect your lines.