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Edited Transcript of TITK.AT earnings conference call or presentation 7-Nov-19 10:59am GMT

Q3 2019 Titan Cement Company SA Earnings Call

Athens Nov 16, 2019 (Thomson StreetEvents) -- Edited Transcript of Titan Cement Company SA earnings conference call or presentation Thursday, November 7, 2019 at 10:59:00am GMT

TEXT version of Transcript

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Corporate Participants

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* Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos

Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council

* Michael H. Colakides

Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director

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Conference Call Participants

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* Brijesh Kumar Siya

HSBC, Research Division - Analyst

* Michael Frederick Betts

Data Based Analysis Limited - Director

* Robert Whitworth

Exane BNP Paribas, Research Division - Research Analyst

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Presentation

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Operator [1]

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Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for standing by. I am Gay, your Chorus Call operator. Welcome, and thank you for joining the Titan Cement Group conference call to present and discuss the 9 months 2019 financial results. (Operator Instructions) The conference is being recorded.

Please note, this call and presentation is intended for analysts and investors only. The presentation will be followed by a question-and-answer session. (Operator Instructions)

At this time, I would like to turn the conference over to Mr. Michael Colakides, Group CFO; and Mr. Dimitri Papalexopoulos, Chairman of the Group Executive Committee. Mr. Colakides, you may now proceed.

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [2]

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Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to our conference call for the 9-month results of Titan Group, and thank you for joining us today.

Our Q3 and 9-month results refer to consolidated financials of the TITAN Cement International. From an accounting and reporting perspective, the acquisition of 100% of Titan by TCI is considered a group reorganization, which means that there will be a straight continuity in the reported financials.

In Q3, the group reported significant growth in turnover, EBITDA and net profit after tax compared to last year. The solid performance of the third quarter contributed favorably to the 9-month results.

In the 9 months, group turnover increased by 9.7% to EUR 1.2 billion, recording growth across all regions of operations, with the exception of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Group EBITDA reached EUR 208 million, posting a 5.8% increase. The group's net profit after minority interest and taxes decreased by 9.9% to EUR 45 million mostly due to higher depreciation charges, partly caused by the full consolidation of Turkey in 2019, which did not apply in 2018 and partly by the adoption of IFRS 16.

In the U.S., growing market demand led turnover to EUR 722 million, up 12.9% or 6.3% in dollar terms. Growth of EBITDA was slower at EUR 137 million, 7.1% increase for the 9-month period as costs increased for imported cement and distribution expenses and also because of the lost part of the fly ash business.

In Greece, supported by modest domestic recovery and the strengthening of the U.S. dollar which favored TITAN's exports, turnover grew to EUR 185 million, an increase of 6.8% while EBITDA reached EUR 16 million, increasing by 45%.

In Southeast Europe, improved market conditions prevailed in most countries, driving turnover and profitability at higher levels. Turnover and EBITDA reached EUR 195 million and EUR 59 million, respectively, recording corresponding increases of 11.2% and 32.6% versus 2018.

Unfavorable market conditions persisted in Eastern Mediterranean region. 9-month turnover decreased by 6.1% versus last year, or 19% on a like-for-like basis, including Turkey, to EUR 107 million. 9-month EBITDA was negative at EUR 3 million despite the fact that both Q2 and Q3 were marginally positive.

Net debt at the end of September closed at EUR 891 million, up by EUR 119 million versus December due to EUR 59 million of IFRS 16 liabilities and due to EUR 53 million outflows coming from the squeeze out exercise and transaction costs related to the listing of TCI in Euronext Brussels, Paris and Athens.

The group generated EUR 87 million in operating cash flow, EUR 25 million higher than the same period of 2018 due to increased EBITDA and lower working capital requirements.

Turning to the next slide. Let's focus on the bottom half of the page, which is the Q3 performance, where charts show the growth of key financial metrics across the board: specifically, turnover growth of 8.7%; EBITDA growth of 15.4%; and finally, EUR 6.5 million growth in net profit in Q3, which improved the year-on-year comparison for the 9 months.

Turning to the next slide with sales volumes. The trend of sales volumes has broadly been similar throughout 2018. Year-to-date, we have witnessed an increase in cement sale volumes in the U.S., Southeast Europe and Greece, which were weighed down by the sharp decline in Turkey and the drop in Egypt, although it is worth noting that in Q3, in Turkey, there were signs of stabilization of demand.

Flat ready-mix concrete volumes also reflect declines in Turkey and Egypt while aggregates volumes increased, thanks to higher volumes in the U.S. and Greece.

Turning now to our income statement. I would like to comment here that looking at our 9-month P&L, we should reflect that this is an aggregation of geographies with different characteristics and trends. We will see later on that East Med, which now includes Turkey fully consolidated for the whole year, had a negative shrink of EUR 17 million in EBITDA over the first 9 months. This is enough of a distortion that makes comparison of 2000 versus -- '19 versus 2018 on a line-by-line basis misleading. The essence is that the improvements recording in the other 3 regions more than offset the East Med handicap, resulting in an overall growth in EBITDA. The higher depreciation charge is caused mostly by IFRS 16 and partly by the consolidation of Turkey.

Moving on to Slide 6. TITAN recorded a good improvement of EUR 25 million of free cash flow this 9-month period driven mainly by improved EBITDA and lower seasonal working capital needs.

On the other hand, TCI's squeeze out exercise and transaction costs for the re-listing, the adoption of the IFRS 16 and the revaluation of the U.S. dollar led the debt to EUR 119 million increase.

A review of our balance sheet. You will see that there is a continuity in the balance sheet and a discontinuity in the equity accounts, and I will try to explain. Following the successful tender offer and completion of the squeeze-out exercise, TITAN Cement International acquired 100% of all the shares of Titan Cement Company, becoming the new group parent. This transaction was recognized as reorganization of the group and has not changed the substance of the reporting group. The consolidated financial statements of TCI are presented using the values from the consolidated financial statements of TITAN S.A.

A difference only lies within the equity accounts, although the total equity is not affected. It was EUR 1.47 million on December 31, 2018 and EUR 1.49 million from the 30th of September. The difference lies within the equity accounts reclassification.

The group equity share capital and share premium reflect those of TCI as it developed after the capital increase on the subscription by the TITAN shareholders while the other amounts in group equity are those of the consolidated financial statements of TITAN S.A. The resulting difference that arose is recognized as a reorganization reserve.

Turning to our net debt. At the end of September, net debt stood at EUR 891 million, which was higher by, as mentioned, EUR 119 million compared to the end of 2018. And we have explained the reasons behind this increase.

Following the redemption of the bond that matured in July 2019, the group's next important maturity is now in 2 years' time in July 2021.

A review of the performance by region, starting with the U.S. U.S. operations recorded revenue and profitability growth in Q3, reflecting strong underlying demand in the Mid and Southeast Atlantic Coast.

Turnover recorded a 12.9% increase or 6.3% in dollar terms over the 9 months of 2019, reaching EUR 722 million; and EBITDA at EUR 137 million increased by 7.1% or 1.2% in dollar terms compared to the same period of last year.

Within the broader framework of economic growth, favorable economic indicators such as consumer confidence, low unemployment and low interest rates, all support the residential market, which constitutes the backbone of demand, particularly in Florida. Virginia and the Carolinas also benefited from better weather conditions this year compared to what had been a very wet third quarter in 2018.

In line with growth in the market, Titan America recorded an increase in sales in 2019 across all product lines, with the exception of the fly ash, which continues to be in short supply. Profitability benefited from higher volumes, cement prices gains compared to 2018 and relatively better weather conditions.

On the other hand, increased imported cement costs, higher distribution and logistic costs as our market coverage expands, plus the loss of earnings from the fly ash business contraction offset a good part of the profitability gains.

The U.S. Portland Cement Association, the PCA, has recently published its annual forecast, which predicts moderate growth for cement demand through 2019 and into 2020. PCA expects cement consumption will expand by 2.4% in 2019, 1.7% and 1.4% in 2020 and 2021, respectively. The Mid and Southeast Atlantic Coast region is expected to exceed the national average.

Turning now to Greece. In Greece, the progressive recovery of profitability continued in Q3, although from a low base. In the 9 months, turnover posted a 7% increase to EUR 185 million, while EBITDA was up by 45%, reaching EUR 15.5 million.

Lately and more so after the general elections in July, consumer confidence has picked up and has now reached levels last seen back at the end of 2000 based on data from the European Commission. The trend of the confidence index in the construction sector has also been positive.

In 2019, domestic consumption has been supported by rising private sector consumption as well as tourism sector construction. Nevertheless, according to a study recently published by the Foundation for Economic & Industrial Research, total investment spending in construction still remains at low levels, standing at about 25% of the peak of 2007.

For private consumption, the new government is accelerating permitting for large development projects and is launching tax incentives to boost private investment in housing. On the other hand, not much has yet improved and still few public work projects are in the pipeline for 2020.

On the exports front, the strength of the U.S. dollar has translated in improved margin this year for a dollar-denominated export resulting to windfall gains.

On the cost side, the spike in CO2 prices hit electricity charges and increased production costs. Also within 2019, the increased fuel costs incurred in the first half of the year were reversed in Q3 as pet coke prices trend significantly lower. We expect the decline in fuel cost to become more visible and beneficial in Q4.

Southeast Europe. Markets in Southeast Europe enjoyed good revenue growth and a boost in profitability. Financial results in Q3 were the best recorded quarter for over 5 years. Overall in the 9 months, turnover in Southeast Europe posted an 11% increase to EUR 195 million while EBITDA was up by 33%, reaching EUR 59 million.

The improvement in performance stems from a rise in aggregate demand for construction materials stemming from sustained economic growth over the past few years combined with successful price increases implemented earlier in the year in most markets. The favorable and rising demand environment, together with the progressive increase of utilization rates and the delivery of cost-saving initiatives provides scope for sustainability of margins. Although the significant increase in electricity prices impacted profitability, it was partly offset by higher use of alternative fuels and lower solid fuel prices.

Now turning to the East Med. Markets in Eastern Mediterranean faced challenges, which are reflected in the region's financial performance. Turnover in the East Med in the 9 months of 2019, including both Egypt and Turkey, was EUR 107 million, recording a 6.1% decline or 19% on a like-for-like basis, that is if Adocim had been fully consolidated last year as well. EBITDA was EUR 3 million negative coming from the first quarter of the year compared to EUR 13.9 million positive in the 9-month period in 2018.

In Egypt, despite the GDP economic growth, which is forecast above 5% this year, and the needs generated by strong demographics, cement consumption is down. The existing surplus of cement capacity which has been accentuated by the operation of the Army's gigantic plant, as expected, has resulted in a decrease of capacity utilization for TITAN Cement Egypt.

At the same time, prices have remained at low levels. There was a further increase in electricity costs and the imposition of additional levies per tonne of cement produced. There is currently hardly any room left for profitability. Although the Egyptian market has favorable long-term fundamentals, for the time being, it faces structural challenges which have wiped out the profitability across practically the entire cement sector.

In Turkey now, the sharp decline in the demand for building materials, which characterized the last 12 months, is gradually slowing down with the market recording signs of stabilization in Q3.

During the year, many public works have come to a standstill and the housing inventory has remained at high levels. Prices have increased in local currency, and -- but this was not sufficient to cover for deflation and the depreciation of the Turkish lira.

Finally, let's take a quick look at the performance of our joint venture in Brazil. The market in Brazil appears to have left the worse behind, and year-to-date, domestic consumption of cement increased by 3% and by 1% in the North and the Northeast regions compared to 2018.

Cement sales volume in our joint venture, Apodi, were higher, reflecting the improving market conditions, and the company's turnover was up by 7%. There has been no improvement in profitability as the price increases that were implemented were offset by rising transportation costs.

At country level, the successful first round of voting at both houses for the pension reform was very good news for business and is expected to support growth and the return of investment confidence in the country.

This completes the review of performance in the quarter. And I would like to now hand over to Dimitri for the outlook for the remainder of the year.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [3]

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Thank you, Michael, and good afternoon, everyone. So following the quarter of somewhat improved operating performance and that despite Hurricane Dorian, the lack of fly ash availability and the disappointing lack of progress in Egypt, we still maintain a positive outlook for the full year and beyond.

Market dynamics are positive in most of our markets, with the significant exception of Egypt. Energy price trends are favorable with solid fuel prices declining meaningfully and electricity prices likely no longer to be a drag. Margins are holding up or improving in most areas.

More specifically in the U.S., the macroeconomic backdrop has improved in the last few months. Construction trends remained favorable in the regions where the group is active. Demand is projected to rise over the medium-term by the Portland Cement Association, as Michael mentioned, although growth should be slower and patchier than earlier in the cycle.

Project pipelines are healthy and growing. Financing availability in the most important states for the group is also further improving. The housing market seems to have upside from current levels. We have announced price increases in Florida for January and expect to announce for further up in the Mid-Atlantic region in April as is usually the pattern.

Despite execution challenges as logistics systems become more stretched, we remain well positioned to capture market growth and generate healthy free cash flow as we go forward.

In Greece, the real sense of optimism following the July elections is enduring. The new government has moved rapidly to legislate a pro-growth agenda. Big projects are being unlocked. Taxes are being reduced. VAT on housing has been suspended for 3 years. Returning confidence will boost private demand before long. We are not yet seeing much of an uptick in demand as cement is typically one of the late beneficiaries when growth resumes, but our outlook for the domestic market in 2020 is certainly encouraging.

I should mention that on the negative side, we expect a somewhat lower contribution from exports moving ahead as there is pressure on both volumes and margins from increased competition, especially from Turkey.

In the countries of Southeastern Europe, continuing economic growth is having a positive effect on construction activity. Consumption of cement has increased, and profitability margins have improved. The group's plants can increase their output by utilizing excess capacity to cover additional demand.

In Egypt, as we had anticipated during our last conference call in July, the situation looks set to remain painful in the short term. Although the status quo is clearly untenable for the industry as a whole, visibility is still low, and it's too early to anticipate an improvement.

In Turkey, the economic recession is softening. And the next months will offer more favorable comparatives in terms of cement demand. The market seems to be stabilizing in the short term while the longer-term prospects of the construction sector remain attractive. We're working on the assumption of a U-shaped scenario, neither V nor L.

Adocim enjoys advantageous competitive position owing to its low gearing, modern asset base and competitive cost structure. We do not expect it to represent a drain on our cash flow.

Last, in Brazil, things have been moving slower than we had hoped. But as Michael pointed out, the preconditions are in place for an acceleration of demand growth moving ahead.

With the successful implementation of our re-listing behind us, we are now firmly focused on the next chapter of our history. At the same time as we are navigating the choppy waters in an increasingly unpredictable and volatile world, we are working quietly and diligently on the 2 key challenges which we believe represent the foundation of future success in our industry. That's carbon and digital.

And with that, I would like to thank you and open it up for questions.

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Questions and Answers

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Operator [1]

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First question is from the line of Whitworth Robert with Exane BNP Paribas.

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Robert Whitworth, Exane BNP Paribas, Research Division - Research Analyst [2]

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My first question, I'd like to know if you could give us an update on the fly ash situation in the U.S. and how you can address this challenge going forward as it seems to be quite structural?

My second question is around price increases in the Balkans. Can you quantify it? And I appreciate there are many countries, but maybe you could help us understand the dynamics in your largest market.

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [3]

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Okay. I will take the first part regarding the fly ash. Let's not blow it beyond proportion. The lost profitability is order of magnitude $10 million a year, and it's already happening. So it's not something that -- it's a one-off, let's say, step down. There are maybe more volatility next year from a low base depending on how much coal the power generating companies will use as may fuel, but order of magnitude, as I mentioned, is the $10 million hit that we're taking this year.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [4]

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And let me comment briefly on the Balkan prices. As you pointed out, we don't break our data country-by-country and it's a mixed bag. We're talking about, on average, I would say, something like single-digit -- high single -- medium to high single-digit numbers.

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [5]

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And it's a process which started over a year ago, so they have been coming in different periods, in different countries.

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Operator [6]

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Our next question is from the line of Siya Brijesh with HSBC.

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Brijesh Kumar Siya, HSBC, Research Division - Analyst [7]

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I just have a couple as well. The first one is on the import situation, the new accretion. I understand you have already put in a price rise for Florida in January. I mean, can you talk about what's the situation there with the [manganese]. Is the volume fully absorbed in the market? Or there's still some way to go before you can kind of push your price increases in the region.

Then second one is coming to the comment you made about export pressure, particularly from Turkey. Is it primarily because the carbon prices are going up and there is a competitive advantage, Turkey having compared to the European producers? So you have kind of issues across Europe that there's a flood of cheap clinker or cement from Turkey?

And probably third on carbon. You mentioned in the Greece that there is a production cost increase because of the carbon price increases and effectively coming from the spot price rises. Have you kind of put in a separate line of price increases in your regions due to these cost increases or carbon-led cost increases?

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [8]

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I will take the last part regarding carbon. I think there is a misunderstanding there. Pet coke prices have gone up much earlier in the year. So until that stock was used in the production, we had higher costs for fuel. But since then, pet coal prices have come down significantly and have stayed low for a long period. So we have started utilizing cheaper pet coke since Q3, and already the increased cost of the first half of the year has been reversed and we are producing a total cost in 2018. And the medium-term outlook, for quite a few more quarters, we expect that we will enjoy this benefit.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [9]

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Let me take the other 2 questions. On New York prices, we have not made any announcements yet. The cycle, as mentioned earlier, further up the coast is usually around springtime in April, up in January. New York has had the strongest headwinds on pricing in the past few years because of 2 reasons: a big new entrant with a big import terminal; plus a new plant coming on stream from an existing player with higher capacity. So absorbing all those volumes has not allowed prices to recover anywhere near as much as in other parts of at least our footprint. Hopefully, that change has now been absorbed and we are optimistic going forward that prices in New York could start recovering as well.

On the export pressure from Turkey and elsewhere, it has more to do with what's happening with availability of export volumes, but it has to do with margins or carbon admission pricing. So Turkey has a significant capacity -- overcapacity with plants underwater. As demand in Turkey has come down locally, the pressure to keep capacity utilization high by increasing exports has become much, much stronger. And the need, given that many of those companies have debt in foreign currency, for foreign currency is also strong. So they have already significantly improved -- increased volumes this year. If memory serves, I think export volumes this year from Turkey have gone from something like 13 million to about 20 million tonnes. And these are figures I have rather vague in my mind. So don't -- please don't take them as exact but -- as indicative of a tendency. And obviously, that big push on the supply side has brought pressure on prices and volumes as well. So this has little, or if anything, to do with carbon emissions pricing, if that was your question.

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Brijesh Kumar Siya, HSBC, Research Division - Analyst [10]

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Okay, understood. If I may just pose one more question. It's on Egypt. Things are obviously not going as planned, and the market looks rather depressing, at least in the medium term. Have you, I mean, thought about probably, I mean, exiting or selling to somebody? Maybe a tough one at this point in time. But have you thought about mothballing the plant at some point to at least stop the draining out of cash there?

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [11]

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We have done a lot of work of -- on containing both fixed costs and improving variable costs, and we'll continue to do so. And it's fascinating to me when people are pushed by necessity, they always find an extra step. And we have been doing all that.

In terms of more structural remedies you're alluding to, if and when there is anything to talk about, we will talk about it, but there's nothing right now.

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Operator [12]

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The next question is from Mike Betts with Data Based Analysis.

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Michael Frederick Betts, Data Based Analysis Limited - Director [13]

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I had 3 questions as well, if I could, please. Firstly, just staying with Egypt. We heard from one of your competitors earlier today that maybe things had improved significantly there in the last month or so with the price increase -- a double-digit price increase and higher demand. I know this is mainly about Q3. But if you're able to, could you make any comment about whether you've seen that in your area as well?

Secondly, returning to the carbon issue. Could you -- I mean, you mentioned it was one of the major challenges or the 2 major challenges you are facing going forward. Could you talk please about your availability of carbon permits? And particularly, I guess, still sticking with the export issue out of Greece, whether it would -- really makes much sense to use those permits for producing exports meant at the moment rather than maybe you needing the permits in the future.

And then the third and final question, please, just on the U.S. and Florida. My understanding was there was some frictions during Q3 on cement prices in Florida. Did you see those pricing pressures during the quarter?

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [14]

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Let me take the first question and ask Mike to take the second one. So in Egypt, in October, let me put it a different way. We have, in Egypt, over the past year plus, since the new Army plant started operations, seen many attempts to improve prices and none of them have stuck at this point in time.

My latest information, for whatever it's worth, from a few days ago, only a very few days ago, is that there has been no reaction from some of the key players, including the Army plant on any proposed price increases. So I cannot say, at this point, that it looks like it's really sticking, but that remains to be seen.

Volumes did improve a bit in October. That is, indeed, the case. So it's too early to call that a trend after almost 2.5 years of small declines in volumes, but yes, it looks -- October looks a little better volume-wise. But it would be premature to read too much in that, I'm afraid.

Do you want to take the carbon element issue, Michael?

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [15]

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Now on carbon, I think we are relatively very well positioned. We have the luxury of having flexibility and optionality. TITAN has 3 plants in Greece. They are all next to the water where they all have export capacity, and we also have historically a very large part, in particular, over the last few years, the majority of the preproduction has been diverted to exports.

So on the margin, there will not be for us any problem with the carbon. With the carbon rights, we can easily play one plant against the other. We can go for ramp plant to 116% and the other, 85%. We have plenty of flexibility on that.

And beyond that, I should also just say that we have a sizable surplus of carbon rights to take us over the next few years without any worries.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [16]

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Finally, let me come to the third -- to the final question of Florida prices. The -- if you look at Q3 prices in Florida, we are indeed very slightly below Q2 prices, but slightly below, $1, and they are still ahead of Q3 of 2018 prices by margin. So if there was stronger language used on pricing decline in Florida, it doesn't seem to have been that strongly affecting our own areas.

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Michael Frederick Betts, Data Based Analysis Limited - Director [17]

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Understood. And if I could just follow up on Florida. You did mention Hurricane Dorian, which I know it didn't actually hit Florida, but there was a lot of preparation. Was that a significant factor in Q3 in terms of sites closing down and therefore, not requiring cement and other products?

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [18]

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It did hit profitability, I should add, not as much as Irma last year. But, I mean, still, it did cost a few million dollars in lost profitability.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [19]

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I think we just buttoned. Like everybody else, demand went virtually to 0 for a week or 2, a couple of weeks, and everybody went home. We buttoned down all the equipment and everything. So there was a loss of business that was not insignificant.

Anyway, half year, we're so tired of using weather as an excuse that we actually didn't even try to use Dorian this time as an excuse.

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Operator [20]

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The next question is a follow-up question from Whitworth Robert with Exane BNP Paribas.

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Robert Whitworth, Exane BNP Paribas, Research Division - Research Analyst [21]

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I just wanted to circle back on Egypt. So what is the -- sort of the group's long-term strategy in the country? Is there potential exits or anything like that that you're considering?

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [22]

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As we mentioned just a couple of minutes ago, if there's anything to announce, we're -- we'll announce it. But let me perhaps take up, as you're insisting, a philosophical view, which is that experience in the industry teaches patience, self-help and stick to [entity]. And we are not -- we've been around long enough not to make decisions, take decisions when there is...

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [23]

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When there is blood in the street.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [24]

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When there's blood in the street. So take different kinds of decisions when there's blood in the street as Warren Buffett might have said.

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Operator [25]

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(Operator Instructions) Ladies and gentlemen, there are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the conference over to Mr. Colakides for any closing comments. Thank you.

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Michael H. Colakides, Titan Cement International S.A. - Group CFO, Senior Strategic Advisor, MD & Executive Director [26]

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Well, I just want to thank everybody for joining us late in the evening for the Greek participants. And to remind you that the 12-month results conference call will be on March 19.

Thank you very much. Good night.

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Dimitrios Th. Papalexopoulos, Titan Cement International S.A. - CEO, MD, Executive Director & Member of Advisory Council [27]

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Thank you, everyone.

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Operator [28]

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Ladies and gentlemen, the conference is now concluded and you may disconnect your telephones. Thank you for calling and have a pleasant evening.