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Matt Mosman on The Blockchain Interviews With Dan Weiskopf

·32 min read

This article was originally published on ETFTrends.com.

Intro Vocals 00:01
You're watching the Blockchain Interviews hosted by Dan Weiskopf. Each episode features interviews with leading industry experts so that viewers can have a deeper understanding of today's quickly evolving blockchain marketplace.

Dan Weiskopf 00:20
Matt Mosman I'm thrilled you could join me in the Blockchain CEO series. We're definitely taking a different tack today. Usually we're investing or talking to CEOs. Now, you're a CEO of a venture capital firm investing in CEOs?

Matt Mosman 00:42
Correct. Well, I'm not a CEO, I'm the managing director for the Medici fund. So at Pelion Venture Partners,

Dan Weiskopf 00:50
Thank you very much for correcting me. And everybody's kind of a CEO the way I figure it. But it is a title that needs to be respected. So I'm happy that you corrected me. And then you know, along those same lines. Tell us a little bit about Pelion and how Overstock found you?

Matt Mosman 01:13
Well, sure. I think the way they found us is we've been around quite a while. So Pelion has been around since the 90s. And... and we're currently investing. In addition to the Medici fund, we're investing out of our seventh fund. And primarily over the course of a long stretch of time, we've invested in software we were, you know, we were seed investors and things like CloudFlare, which is a, you know, $30 billion company now Divvy, which was bought last year by Bill.com, for like $2 billion. We invested in Weave, which went public last year, and it's super undervalued. And then back in the day, we invested in things like, you know, Riverbed, and Red Hat. So, we're not new at all. And, you know, and then I would say about Kellyanne in addition to the bedsheet portfolio, we're also just investing in blockchain companies along without other types of software, just from our main fund. So we recently invested for example, in this really cool Defi a company called Geti, and we're looking at blockchain deals all the time. Probably the way that Overstock ran across us, though, of course, is that we are literally located in the same town they are in. We so we're in Salt Lake City, we do a lot of work here in Utah, which is a really underrated tech hub, actually. But we also invest all across the country do a lot of work in the Bay Area in LA and we have deals in Austin, Atlanta, and in the Northeast. And then, the mentorship portfolio itself is worldwide. We have portfolio companies on four continents. We don't have any investments right now in Antarctica, but I'd be happy to take a look if something's going on. And, and then, you know, just as blockchain investors were, we're toward the top end, in terms of the number of investments in blockchain of any fund in the world. We have people in the firm like me who really focus on the space and we're big believers, we overall we have 22 or 23, Blockchain investments. Two of those have exited. Neither of those was like earth shattering yet, but they're nice results in both cases. So yeah, we're really excited about it.

Dan Weiskopf 03:54
Yeah, when I started my career, I had some good exposure to the venture capital market. Unfortunately, we passed on this little company called Dell computer. And the interesting part about that, that story, is that, you know, here was a business plan, you know, about changing the way something was sold more than technology changed, right? It goes, it goes back a little bit to you know, your picks and axes, you know, story that you mentioned, in the Medici Mayday webinar, which I really encourage everybody to listen to, just to fully understand in a three hour period, the portfolio but, but today, you don't hear anything about Compaq computer, right?

Matt Mosman 04:51
No. Oddly, you know, what's funny is my very first job out of MBA school was that Compaq computer.

Dan Weiskopf 04:59
That was funny.

Matt Mosman 05:01
They're all those years ago and watch Dell do what they did.

Dan Weiskopf 05:04
Yeah, you've got a lot of technology background. Give us a little, please don't be too modest here.

Matt Mosman 05:14
Yeah, so I spent most of my career as a tech M&A guy. So I ran the M&A function. For Oracle, for example, for a number of years and Oracle, in kind of my first intro to venture capitalists, Oracle had a half billion dollar venture fund that reported to me, and super fun we did really well. And, and that's how I got into it, and also how I met. The founding partner, one of the founding partners of peloton is he and I was an investor through Oracle in a Kleiner Perkins fund. And he was an investor through Novell, where he was running their venture fund and in this in the Kleiner Perkins fund, and we met at a Kleiner Perkins LP event. So we have known him for 25 years.

Dan Weiskopf 06:09
Yeah, just to say we're dating ourselves right.

Matt Mosman 06:16
I think I date myself already with the grey in my beard, so I have nothing to hide.

Dan Weiskopf 06:21
Me too. Back at you with that. So I'm dating ourselves a little further, let's talk a little bit about what exactly? You know, you mean, when you talk about picks and axes? I mean, I understand that, that you, you know, you, you promote the analogy of the gold mining era. And I agree with that. But, you know, what does it mean to be picks and axes in the context of the blockchain or Web 3.0?

Matt Mosman 06:48
Yeah, I mean, I think there are, there's a perfect example for us is CloudFlare, right, where that's a huge company that nobody hears about, because it's kind of back behind the scenes. And there's a tremendous amount of money always in every new market to be made in the plumbing of, of what's of the new thing that's happening. And so it's not that we would ignore, you know, something that's more at the forefront, but there's a lot of juice in that back office.

Dan Weiskopf 07:26
Yeah, it's so easy. And we're not here to talk about Bitcoin. It's not particularly relevant. But it's so easy to measure success. When when price goes up and down. But with venture capital, it doesn't move like that. Not on a daily basis, right. Which makes it a little bit tougher. We require a little more patience. And, and definitely a lot more strategy.

Matt Mosman 07:55
Yeah, I mean, we're most venture capital funds are on a 10 year time horizon, right. And so honestly, a company can just suck for five years. You know, as long as it's the one who takes off in that time horizon, you're great. So we, you know, we don't pay very much, I mean, accepted that as it's a leading indicator, you don't pay that much attention to any given quarter or week or month, you know, you're just sort of like, build this thing, and build it to be massive and huge and, and change the world. That's what we care about.

Dan Weiskopf 08:32
Yeah, and change the world. And I had some exposure to the biotech side when I was just getting started. And in your case, though, you were early in the blockchain web 3.0. And I believe that on the Medici venture day, it was highlighted that only 1% of venture capital is going into blockchain. Which means you're in a unique position with a unique network and doing really unique things. Can you talk to us a little bit about the environment today after we went through really a tough period of time? And are we looking at down rounds? Are we looking at people continuing with the investments?

Matt Mosman 09:26
Yeah, well, I mean, first, just with respect to the, you know, Blockchain and investing, you know, as I mentioned, you mentioned 1% is gone that direction, I'm gonna bet that that's going to pick up over time. You know, as I just noted, I've been around a long time and it feels to me a little bit like the early days of SAS, you know, so I can remember when Marc Benioff with whom I used to work at Oracle, you know, he had to have his people run around other people. those venues with these signs that said software with a circle and a slash to it, to evangelize the concept of software as a service. And now, you know, you can hardly think now of a world without SAS. But it's really useful to remember that it wasn't always like that there were people who didn't think it was gonna work. You know, if that can be imagined, and blockchain feels like that to me. So I think it's going to pick up over time in terms of the, like, the current environment, it's a little bifurcated between new investments versus follow on rounds, you know, so with new investments, it's actually a really great time for investors. You know, as investors, you definitely don't want to do investing backward, you know, and deploy all your capital in frothy markets. So valuations are down. And that's not altogether great for founders at one level, but it does mean for them that smart investors will be deploying capital, right. So it's a little bit of a mixed bag for new investments, because the bad news is that your valuation is going to be lower. But the good news is that you should be able to attract funding, right. On the other hand, you know, follow on funding for existing investments is just a nuclear winter. Right now, we're advising our companies like across the portfolio, not just an equity portfolio, but our whole portfolio, to conserve the cash, you know, live to fight another day kind of thing. It's hard to get new investors without showing some significant product market fit through, you know, usually customer traction. And, you know, just nobody's going to invest in a B round, that's still mostly just a story, right. And the minor caveat would be, it's, it's possible to raise money, in a in a follow on financing, if if the company is willing to take it down round or flat round, you know, but if the company is out there, and they're expecting to get like a 2020, type valuation in 2022, that's not going to happen. So, you know, valuation wise, things are way down for any company at any stage. But I think it's just to a more sustainable level, you're, you're not going to see firms putting in, you know, a 35 million pre money valuation to three people on a PowerPoint, which was always going to be a little nuts. So I think it really does help to have seen a few of these cycles before, you know. And it's just one of those.

Dan Weiskopf 12:53
Yeah, but the capital is available. I mean, we're seeing capital being raised in technology we've seen, you know, a lot of funds come out with success in that?

Matt Mosman 13:09
Well, because it's a good time to deploy capital, sure. But you're gonna deploy it and you're gonna take your pound of flesh, because the market demands it right now. So you're not really nobody's gonna get this super premium valuation that they were getting, you know, 18 months ago or two years ago?

Dan Weiskopf 13:30
Yeah, well, I mean, you're, you're correct, of course, it's always a question on how things are valued. I always struggle with, because there's different stages here, you walk us through a little bit, the different stages, there's an A, there's a B some, some of the people listening to this aren't gonna necessarily understand what that means.

Matt Mosman 13:52
Yeah, so, you know, there's, we invest primarily at C and A. So a C round deal would be, you know, maybe they don't even have a product yet. Right. So I invested in a company last year, where it really like I just, I just described, you know, three people in a PowerPoint, it really was that it was three people in a PowerPoint, it happened that the person was a guy used to work with at Oracle, who I know to be brilliant, and I know to be just a killer in this particular space, so I wanted to be in his company, right?But that's all it was, at the C level and it often is, an A level deal would be, you have very little customer traction, you just you maybe you've just finished your product and people are starting to pick up on it. That's kind of an A round deal and then by the B round, and then go on further C D, E, all the later rounds. You're just... the only metric after that was traction. Right? What I always say is I'm not, I'm not particularly smart, but my partners are. And, and so, you know, they may be smart, but they're not smarter than the market is. Markets are brilliant. They tell you what's going to win. And people vote with their wallets. And so at the kind of B, C, D, E rounds, it's like, just show me the numbers. And that's it. You know, early on, it's who is this person? How resilient are they? Do they have a great idea? Do they have some experience in the space that's gonna make me feel like they can solve a problem? All those kinds of things are in the early rounds.

Dan Weiskopf 15:47
Totally make sense. And I totally follow you. And when I was just getting going at '87, I, the crash occurred. And I'll never forget, my boss said, Bring all the files, and we had about 100 different investments in them. Almost all of them were or seed. Okay. We, we, we wrote down, I'm going to say 85 of those companies to zero and you know, listen, some of them survived. And we were real happy. Obviously, that's not what we're talking about here. You know, and I think, what's almost more important, is I think the venture capital market has evolved since then. And it's much deeper. Right? So that's all exciting. So...

Matt Mosman 16:32
I'm trying to catch, you're trying to catch Lightning in a bottle though. Really? Right. There is no way to de-risk a seed round deal you can't do it right? So the only way to make it happen is to do something like we did at CloudFlare, where we invested a million bucks at 4 million pre owned a big chunk of it. And then now that company goes to 30 billion. And guess what, we all have yachts, right? Not me, but everybody else.

Dan Weiskopf 17:02
Yeah, no, no, that's what we're looking for. So along those same lines, you mentioned that, that somebody was brilliant. Entrepreneurs can be brilliant, they can be resilient, they can be, you know, willing to roll their sleeves up, um, walk us through, like some of your thought process. Some examples of entrepreneurs, who, you know, have the characteristics that you're looking for. I mean, David goon as an example, who is the CEO of of T Zero, has gone through different cycles, different companies, but he's come from a big company, which generally, candidly, is a red flag for me?

Matt Mosman 17:47
Yeah. Well, I agree with that. But we'll talk about in general, you know, it amounts more to grit and hustle than it does to brilliance. Like, I know a guy, literally, oh, guy who can beat me and chess, while standing in the other room, not, you know, making a salad not even looking at the board. Like, he's that brilliant. You know, and I wouldn't invest in him, because he doesn't have grit. You know, and that's kind of that's really what makes the difference. I've been a CEO four times to startup CEO, and it's just really, really hard. My wife one time said to me, during one of my stints, you know, as a CEO, she said, you understand you don't sleep really at all. You know, it's like that you can't be a quitter. You can't get too down on things when things aren't going right and can't read your own newspaper clippings when things are going well, right? You just can't. And success, it's just, it's almost never just this straight line going up into the right. It's more of a like a drunkards walk, you know, with these exhilarating highs, followed by these crushing lows. And so it helps a lot to have a thick skin and a little bit of equanimity. And, you know, it's a grip matters a great deal. And every single day at a startup is a sprint, and so not everybody's up for that. And so it's rare to find the right person. Regarding David, you know, look, a ton of companies successfully have grown up out of people whose only previous experience was with startups, and we could name 50 of those guys. Right. Startups are dramatically different places from big public companies, you know, and they require CEOs to behave differently than they would in a public company. But perfection might actually be a little bit of a mix, which is like David is, so David came from Ice, which is a very large public company, but he'd been almost since its inception, I don't remember what employee was, but it was like, you know, 10 or something, right? So he actually understands very well, the fits and starts of small companies, he really does. He knew it coming in, he knew coming in, there wasn't going to be predictable revenues. And it wasn't gonna be that all the processes were in place. And it wasn't gonna be that everything worked like a well oiled machine. Like he totally gets that. But it's also like, really useful, that he knows what it needs to look like in the end. And notice the entire path to get to that end. So that's what I think is really useful about David. You know, plus, just I mean, the man is a market's Hall of Famer, you know, which is going to be useful.

Dan Weiskopf 20:54
Who's Who's not expected to sleep?

Matt Mosman 20:57
He isn't... No, no, no, he is, absolutely. I get calls from him at times that I didn't want to discuss with you.

Dan Weiskopf 21:14
Listen, I'm thrilled that Overstock took the position that they wanted to bring in professional management of this portfolio. Walk me through some of the names in the portfolio, so we can get into some details here. Sure. I mean, I want to give, I want to give the caveat that, you know, picking a few companies out of the whole portfolio is kind of like, you know, picking a favorite child. And by the way, my kids watch this, I do not have one, okay. And, and, and in your case with at least the Midici portfolio, there are 19 children down from 21. Right down from 20, we inherited 21, not two of them in this hole. So 19 left, it's a lot. And, you know, we're excited about many of them. And but we don't have time for all, but I'll just offer off a few. I also, if your people are going to go watch the Medici today, there's a few others that are noted there. So but you know, obviously kind of the one that everybody wants to talk about as T Zero, which I think is a company with a really bright future. You know, at this point, T Zero is basically the New York Stock Exchange for all things blockchain. But it's worth noting that, you know, as a reg, they're registered broker dealer. So the degrees of freedom for what T Zero can do in the future is this like, vast blue ocean of opportunity. The fact of the regulatory climate for things like crypto... cryptocurrencies and NFT's, you know, is leaning somewhat toward many of them being declared securities is not only like perfectly fine for teaser, it's probably a huge competitive advantage. Since, you know, the company was super forward looking about that from the start. You know, and then probably the best thing of all about T Zero is that recent investment from Ice, which is a very large investment, and some others invested in that, including us, and Overstock. And so that just gives us the company, you know, plenty of runway to explore those blue ocean opportunities. And then, you know, as I mentioned earlier, David Goon is, you know, a genuine first ballot Hall of Famer with respect to innovation in financial markets, I'm literally still pinching myself that we got him to join. So that's a great one. You know, the other one that people talk about a lot is Bit. And we always talked about Bit primarily because of the TAM, the way I always put it is, you know, what's the total addressable market for money? And that's, it's not 100% accurate way to look at it. But it's a fun way to think of their just massive market opportunity. But then we also love it because they're actually executing on that opportunity. Right? The largest Central Bank, digital currency project in the world that's actually in production outside of China is Nigeria. And that's been under the covers, right. And then the Eastern Caribbean Central Bank's digital currency, which and this is interesting, because it struggled, navigate, and there were some technical issues and stuff like that. That's also good under the covers. And I think that struggle is important, because the only company in the world that has implemented a CBBC and gone through all the travails, you know, of implementation and learn the lessons of those rebels is bad. And so every other CBBC company is going to have to go through those issues. And they're going to have to learn those lessons, but the box is already checked a bit. And so, you know, honestly, with bid, if they did nothing other than execute well on the deals they already have, it takes off the way we expect it will in just those countries, you already have a tremendous company. But that's not all they're going to do. You know, of course, and especially since we just acquired the people in pipeline from one of their competitors Criteo, which just was announced two weeks ago, maybe. And I can, I can barely overstate how important that acquisition is. Because the people we brought aboard from that are super high level people with tons of experience with central banks. And they're well known worldwide, to exactly the kind of people you know, with whom we need to interact to win more deals. So to bid is an awesome company. But Matt, what I struggle with, with that opportunity, is exactly what the business model is. How will they generate revenue? They're generating revenue. And the way they'll generate revenue over time is what they call network fees, which, you know, are something similar to usage fees. And so, you know, usage fees on the currency that's being if it's being used a lot, right. I mean, if it takes off and does what you hope it will do any percentage of 200 million people per day using, you know, it's a big number, right? I have to be careful with not getting too excited. But yeah. Everything could come unglued. Every single that the company could be a pile of smoke and rubble. You know, who knows, but there's an opportunity there. That's really, really awesome. Yeah, I mean, to me, some of this is identifying solutions to problems with the technology that currently exists, that needs to be I don't know, recalibrated. It means some of this. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I think a lot of people look at the blockchain as this mystery, or Web 3.0 As this mystery. And it's not. We're not taking huge leaps.

Matt Mosman 27:47
No, I mean, there are some complexities to it. And honestly, anybody interested in blockchain should read the original Satoshi Nakamoto. White Paper, because it's dazzling. Right? If you especially if you've been in tech, I started working in tech in the 80s. Right? And so you've kind of been around tech and seeing these things happen before. And you read it and go, Oh, you know, it's, honestly, it's the kind of thing that I could have thought of. There's nothing technical in there that I couldn't have thought of, but I didn't, you know, some guy we don't even know is some guy through this all this stuff together in a way that just sparkles. I mean, it's really amazing. And yeah, so it's, it's, it's using this technology that we know about, we known about for some time. And finding a way, it's almost like finding the perfect way to use that technology. Is what you're searching for. Yeah.

Dan Weiskopf 29:00
Yeah. But it's going back to the Michael Dell analogy. We don't know about Compaq anymore, right?But people were buying computers, IBM Compaq, maybe Lenovo, I don't remember if that existed at the time.

Matt Mosman 29:16
That was IBM at the time.

Dan Weiskopf 29:19
How, how things changed, it was about the delivery mechanism that made it so easy for people to buy. And then he was also getting his costs down at the same time. I think this is kind of interrelated to your portfolio. So talk about another company or two.

Matt Mosman 29:41
Well, I was gonna say with respect to what you just said you can innovate on technology, but you can also innovate on business model, which is what Michael Dell did. Right? So it's a tremendous job, man. Okay, well, a couple others I thought we discussed. Uh... So this one, we didn't talk about Medici day. But I'm really starting to like it. And this is a company called Finclusive. And for Finclusive does compliance as a service with this automated full stack Financial Crimes compliance solution. And it's for traditional banks and modern FinTech companies, they do like KYC, KYB, for onboarding and ongoing monitoring and screening and, you know, enhanced diligence. For really anything from a large traditional bank to a startup challenger bank, and then even to the financial ecosystem beyond banks. And really, this one, what I really, really like about them is the team. I really like. And you know, how early stage investors we really overweight teams, and this is one of those that but there's a rationale behind it. The rationale is that good teams tend to be able to pivot as necessary, and they execute well, on the current thing they're doing. And that's, that's been true if inclusive. So I know we don't talk a ton about him, but don't sleep once inclusive. That's a good one. And then the other one I thought we've mentioned is, you know, at Medici day, a couple of months ago, in that video, you mentioned earlier, a lot of people listen to that fell in love with the company Grain chain, I totally get why they would do that, right. The CEO of Grain chains guy named Luis Macias, and he's just dazzling with, he just has an encyclopedic knowledge of the space, which is the global food supply chain. And he can just talk your ear off about the problems he's trying to solve in that space. And we talked a minute ago about what CEOs of startups need to be. And one thing that I neglected to mention that is that they, you know, they need to be passionate about what they're doing. And Luis is just that in spades. So it's really great. I grew up, I grew up working in the summers as a hired hand on farms in eastern Washington in northern Idaho. And that grew like we peas and lentils. And I literally watched with my own eyes, some of the problems that Grain Chain's trying to address in the global food supply chain. And they're real, and they're pervasive across the globe. And, you know, it would be really valuable if Grain Chain were able to help solve some of those problems. So that's a great company too.

Dan Weiskopf 32:51
So it brings up a random question, but, uh, but coming back to venture capital in the market, you also come across many large companies that are investing. You mentioned Oracle as an example of not necessarily the blockchain, but just generally having a portfolio. Is this more of a trend than it used to be when we were first starting out? Were were big companies, like whether it's... I know Visa, MasterCard, have portfolios, etc. I mean, you come across this often?

Matt Mosman 33:28
Yeah, I mean, a lot. A lot of companies have an investment arm. I don't know if it's more than it used to be. I mean, when I was running the Oracle thing that was in the late 90s, you know, so it's been around. I think maybe a difference is more the consistency of them. So back in the day, it was a in many ways the dumbest thing in the world would happen is they'd get all excited about investing when the market was frothy, you know, and then when it died, they'd get out of it. You know, it was just like, the dumbest thing in the world. But that's what would happen. And nowadays, it feels like more companies are like in it for the long haul. You know, we'll invest in frothy markets, we'll invest in low markets, we'll do whatever we got to do, which I that's the part I think it's different.

Dan Weiskopf 34:26
Yeah, I was early investor in Cisco. And at one point, their venture capital book was huge. And then it blew up, right. And then... One that has just a gigantic venture capital arm is Salesforce, Salesforce. That's huge. I don't know how many investments they have. It's in the hundreds. You know, so it's tremendous. Actually, actually run by a guy who used to work for me is awesome guy John Samorte. Well, I'll have to reach out to him find out about his blockchain exposure. Any other, you know, companies in your portfolio related to Medici that you want to highlight? Sure, how about... You know, I think there's just because this is an interesting lesson. I'll talk for a second about Pure Nova. So Pure Nova is I think it's an up and comer. It's a data quality solution for huge financial institutions. And you know, they're starting to make real inroads with those institutions they just launched last week, or maybe it was this week, they launched a new product called Clear Consensus that they've been working on for a long time. And I really expect that product will be game changing for them. But I think the interesting thing about Pure Nova, that makes it worth talking about is it's very underrated. In terms of building a company. It's the quality of their non investor board members. So this company, in addition to you know, me and some other investors, they have people like, you know, Chet Kapoor, who is the CEO at data stacks. He is formerly, he was a senior exec at Google. And he was a CEO at apogee, which Google bought, and Chuck CEFS on the board. And so and some other people too, and people like that, you know, they just know the road that Pure Nova has to drive, there's data to suggest, you know, that almost nothing is more predictive of a company's success than the company's access to counsel from smart and experienced people. And then on top of that, you know, the biggest investor in the company is guy named Howard Myrtle camp for Mosaic partners, and he's just absolutely unwavering fan of the company, and just the kind of guy who will move heaven and earth to make Pure Nova successful. So that's a weird sort of underrated, you know, piece of a company of company building that I thought might be worth talking about. Excellent. Excellent. So I just in the interest of time, I'm gonna go at you with two wildcard questions that I asked everybody that come on the show, and then we'll wrap up. So what is like the one thing that investors in the blockchain are not really paying attention to, today, that, in hindsight, would have been obvious?

Matt Mosman 37:50
Well, so I do think that defi is the gorilla of blockchain. I do think the financial system is, you know, the thing that's most likely to be disrupted, disrupted, or disintermediated. But you know, what's happening is, we're mostly seeing, you know, I'm taking pitches all the time, what we're most closely seeing is essentially a recreation of the centralized finance world on the blockchain. So we're, you know, we're lending and we're doing swaps, and we're doing all those things that you do with your, you know, for lack of a better term, your regular bank or your regular broker. So, what I'm interested in, though, is this, like, what can we do with a blockchain that simply couldn't be done at all before? Like, what's the totally new thing that would blow my mind? I want to hear that thing. Where I can't wait to get home and tell my wife how the world just changed. You know, I guess you could probably argue that crypto itself is that and I buy that argument. Crypto itself is, you know, world changing. But that's in the bag, you know. And so I think the blind spot that is, you know, what's the thing that don't just recreate this centralized finance system for me, tell me what you can do with the blockchain that was just not possible before. And I think that's the thing that's going to, you know, knock our socks off.

Dan Weiskopf 39:29
What you don't know what really matters, right? Yeah. And we all...

Matt Mosman 39:34
We will all know when we see it. Yeah. Obviously, I mean, I'm thinking about that myself trying to figure out what would that be, but I need any smarter people than I to think that through it and that's like, that's the one I'm looking for. Is my point when that happens.

Dan Weiskopf 39:58
And also which industry do you think will be most affected by the blockchain or web? 3.0? Whichever you want to focus on finance?Think that's too easy. Come on.

Matt Mosman 40:17
Okay, okay. Luis Macias and the Global Food Supply Chain. It's another like one of the things you like to see is where you see a company and say, Oh, that's a really good use for that technology, you know, right. And so yeah, what is a blockchain? Well, it's this very, very secure, you can't change an entry once it's been entered, and then it's very hard to hack. Right? And so show me the things that really use that kind of that those kinds of features. And yeah, that would be one I mean, it's just rife with all kinds of cheating. Right? And blockchains are a way to keep people from cheating

Dan Weiskopf 41:07
Okay, well line with that. I liked that as a conclusion. Thank you, Matt, so much for joining me today and I look forward to watching all your company's blocking tackle to success. Enjoy the Utah weather, I'm jealous, you know that.

Matt Mosman 41:31
Thanks a lot, man.

Dan Weiskopf 41:33
Thank you. Bye bye.

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