Succession's Costume Designer on Gerri's Nancy Pelosi Moment
Tonight, HBO's Emmy-winning hit Succession wraps up its sophomore season. The show's searing portrayal of the superrich and highly dysfunctional Roy family has enraptured, delighted, and at times horrified viewers these past ten weeks. And while there's not much to envy about Logan and his ilk (all the backstabbing, manipulative, and self-imploding antics see to that), there is one covetable aspect of the Roy lifestyle: their wardrobes.
Under the deft hand of the show's costume designer Michelle Matland (veteran of The Girl on the Train, Saturday Night Live, and Angels in America), the Roys not only dress impeccably, but do so in the understated, effortless way only billionaires can. She dresses the hangers-on with equal brilliance, letting them approximate, but never reach, the Roys' well-articulated fashions. (Think of constantly-belittled Tom, showing up to a Sun Valley-esque conference in a puffy Moncler vest, while everyone else is wearing less-padded—but probably more expensive—outerwear.)
Ahead of the show's finale, Matland spoke to T&C about calculating the Roys' sartorial choices to channel the right mix of wealth, status, and power (or lack thereof).
A lot has been said about Shiv's transformation this season—new haircut, new wardrobe, those turtlenecks and high-waisted pants. Tell us about that, and how it mirrors her character development from season one.
Most importantly, what we have to recognize is that Shiv in season one was working for a politico. She was much more conservative because she wasn't working for herself, she was representing another individual—she had to be the spokesperson. So everything she wore during that time wasn't really the essence of who Shiv was behind the scenes. She was playing a role.
By the time we get to the second season, she's left Gil behind. In the beginning of the season, she is also not completely attached to the family and is able to blossom into her own being. Then we see her develop and evolve into the person who goes into the Roy family business. I don't want to say she becomes more masculine because she's very feminine, but she is very individualistic, yet also wants to be able to stand by her brothers in the boardroom and identify herself as an equal.
What designers and brands does Shiv 2.0 have in her closet?
She wears Gabriella Hearst, Hobbs, The Row, and Ralph Lauren Purple Label. We've been trying to keep quality standards. If you go for quality it will always pay off. It's not the price tag we look at—we don't go looking to spend money—but the subtle texture, the pattern, the sheen. Cashmere, I'm sorry, looks different than a poly blend. It just does. Once we find what works we try to be honest to the character and allow that to take the lead. I also love an outlet store—perfectly fine to buy it for less!
Do you think she tried hard to not look rich while working for Gil, the show's a stand-in for Bernie Sanders?
Absolutely. Without a doubt. Shiv never wants to wear her affluence. I think that's a family charter. Part of being a Roy is that they're not ostentatious.
It's interesting that Succession doesn't necessarily glamorize their material possessions. How do fashion and status intersect in the Roys' world?
If you look at the set decor and the homes they live in, with the way the tables are set, or the fabric on the couches, or the art on the walls—they are grand by all means, but not in your face. It's a very neutral background that the characters walk through. We have to remember that Logan has absolutely no pretense. He need not have it. This is a European backdrop for them, more old European money rather than new American money, and there's a difference.
In the U.S., when we portray money, it's often through the Cartier jewels, the dangling diamonds, the fur, the handbags that scream money. They don't do that, and it's by choice, because they were brought up with code. The Roys are anti-bling. They don't need to present themselves that way. They choose what is luxurious to them—the labels don't count. Of course, they're going to be buying expensive accessories and clothes, but they don't need to posture. It may be a $2,000 pullover sweater but it doesn't need to have a logo on it to represent where they're coming from. They know who they are. They're already established.
Which brings us to Tom. There are at least two instances this season where Tom's fashion choices get ridiculed by the family. There was the scene at dinner at Roman's when Shiv and Roman tease his poor taste in suits, and Roman likens him to a "divorce attorney from the Twin Cities." And then there was the "Argestes" episode with his Moncler vest.
Tom, who comes from a more middle-class environment, is desperately trying to do what he believes is catch-up. He's wearing his costume, he's like a peacock. He goes to the obvious stores and his motto is, "If it's expensive, it's good. And if you can see that price tag, even better." He's certainly more willing than the rest of them to have an identifiable logo on his vest, whereas someone like Kendall is wearing Brunello Cucinelli, which probably costs five times as much but it's understated. Kendall was bred to know the difference and Tom is just walking into it.
He's like the cautionary tale of what not to wear if you want to fit in with the 0.001 percent. What else does he do wrong?
The idea of matching your tie with your pocket square and suspenders is absolute nonsense. For anyone with real money, that would be an immediate giveaway that you're posturing and trying desperately to show something. People like Tom equate fashion with finance, and those two things have nothing in common. It's also something as subtle as the width of a pinstripe on a suit. Tom's is a little bit more pronounced whereas you would never see that on Kendall. If you saw a pinstripe it would be micro—on Tom, it's just a stage too intense. It's his version of Masters of the Universe, but from yesterday. He doesn't know the difference.
Then we see Greg follow suit because he believes Tom is the be all and end all. So while Tom is trying to follow Logan and the boys, Greg is trying to follow Tom. It's the blind leading the blind, basically.
If Logan Roy is old money to Tom's new money, then the Pierces are old old money. For the big meeting of the Roy and Pierce families, was there a certain emphasis placed on how these two clans would appear different, since they are different kinds of rich?
Yes. You can base the Pierce family on any American institution, like the Kennedys. The idea of buying new holds no gratification for them. If it was great grandpa John's World War I sweater and it has a little pill and a hole in the elbow, it has much more resonance and value than going to the store and buying it new. The Roys were warned not to be ostentatious, as if they were anyway, but in comparison to the Pierces there was the chance that they would stand out. As for the Pierce's clothes, they are all very creamy. The tonality is much paler—no business tones, no dark blues, no industry colors. We tried to keep the palette different. Very Americana, very classic.
Let's talk about Gerri, one of the most fascinating and stealthily powerful people on the show. She has risen quite a lot through the ranks since season one and has become the MVP of season two. How does her style reflect that?
She is the only woman that stands in the boardroom that completely plays in a man's world. She is definitively female—like in the ways she plays with Roman in all of those questionable moments—but she knows what she's doing and she's in control. She wears her armor. When she stands in the boardroom, she's impenetrable. We never really see her crack.
As for her clothes, she wore quite a lot of Brooks Brothers suits in season one, and then we kicked it up a notch. She has Oscar de la Renta, Escada, Armani. A lot of her clothes are made by Scanlan Theodore out of super heavy duty knits. These things are superhero costumes, you could jump out of an airplane and you'd be safe. There is a certain level of warrior in Gerri and I think her clothes respond to that. And she does play it dangerously.
And then there was that famous Nancy Pelosi Max Mara moment.
J. Smith-Cameron and I talked about that coat prior to even knowing there was an opportunity for using it. We were talking about Nancy, of course, and about the year of the woman and how women in politics and business have all come to a new echelon, a new place, a new strength. I think of Gerri in the same way. They are equal to the men, they know what they believe in, and they are incredibly proper about how they go about achieving things. After many discussions, we finally found a little opening to throw that coat in as a reference point. It was just fun to be able to do so.
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