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Lumber Liquidators Holdings, Inc. (LL)

NYSE - NYSE Delayed Price. Currency in USD
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19.47+0.33 (+1.72%)
At close: 4:00PM EDT
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  • K
    Kevin
    Obviously something is not right fundamentally either. If you were to break this down on a per store valuation, each store is worth less than $1.5mm, which means that if it were privately valued each store would have to make say more or less $300k at a 5 multiple and that would be about $120mm per year which is not happening
  • O
    Ooh Blah Dee
    I guess the following news item from last Thursday, 9/9/2, may be the explanation for last week's drop below $20.

    I wonder what the big boys have teed up to knock it below $19? Or $18? After all, you can't any price swing on the insurance settlement unless you beat it down first. And it don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing, right?

    https://www.classaction.org/news/lumber-liquidators-faces-another-class-action-over-alleged-defects-in-morning-star-strand-bamboo-flooring
    A class action claims Lumber Liquidators' Morning Star Strand Bamboo flooring is defective and subject to “premature cracking, splitting, warping, and shrinking.”
    A class action claims Lumber Liquidators' Morning Star Strand Bamboo flooring is defective and subject to “premature cracking, splitting, warping, and shrinking.”
    www.classaction.org
  • K
    Kevin
    looks like over 300k shares right at the end of the day?? That si weird. Any ideas as to why?
  • O
    Ooh Blah Dee
    So. After years of trailing FND's big box store model with its warehouse efficiency at the expense of massive headcount per store, LL has decided to match up with FND by ... ?

    A. Introducing our own large format stores, to provide a head to head comparable shopping experience with local logistic support for current smaller stores, and maximum selection and inventory for pros, all targeted toward markets that FND currently relies on?

    B. An improved version of its Altamonte store format, leveraging whatever we learned from that two year experiment?

    C. A program to increase our share of distribution by linking up with top independent flooring retailers through alternative business models like franchising, licensing, supplying our Bellawood brand, and similar arrangements?

    D. Returning to our pre-Knowles reliance on sales promotion to move off-trend product, and regular ads promising the great savings our small store network is designed for?

    Or is it ...?

    E. Renting tiny expensive storefronts to be staffed by the same number of associates without inventory where shoppers can use the same online tools as their phones have?

    You can't make this stuff up ...
  • O
    Ooh Blah Dee
    While LL may absolutely suck at stock valuation, earnings per share, store growth, cost control, staying out of court in the first place, once there staying in court long enough so the plaintiffs attorney don't get dizzy from the revolving courthouse door, writing on-strategy copy, writing humorous copy, writing informative copy, buying media to reach potential rather than former customers, sourcing from outside China, etc. etc. -- we do apparently excel at touching all the bags, diversity wise.

    I was especially intrigued by our closing statement. "At LL Flooring, we are committed to bringing diverse, talented individuals to a place they want to turn their job into a career." So does that mean we just pay them more and more for less and less until they decide to stay?

    Because that seems to be how things work in Richmond ...

    https://www.learn4good.com/jobs/dallas/texas/hr_and_recruitment/588310984/e/
    Position: Talent Sourcing Coordinator )<br>Are you looking for a FUN and EXCITING new opportunity at a company where diverse and talented associates turn jobs into careers? If yes, then LL Flooring is the perfect fit for you!<br><br>LL Flooring has
    Position: Talent Sourcing Coordinator )<br>Are you looking for a FUN and EXCITING new opportunity at a company where diverse and talented associates turn jobs into careers? If yes, then LL Flooring is the perfect fit for you!<br><br>LL Flooring has
    www.learn4good.com
  • K
    Kevin
    the problem here is that I am not sure when you bread this down that each store is worth $1.5mm - thoughts?
  • O
    Ooh Blah Dee
    What do you guys think of the ads we've been running lately? This is a consumer business after all, and good or bad advertising can be a tail wind or a head wind. Also, please indicate where you saw the ad.

    And, although it goes without saying, since we are interested in how our ad reaches and influences ordinary people, not just investors like ourselves, social media ads and ads that you see due to checking our website don't count. Try to find out what other people are seeing ...
  • C
    Caroll
    We seem to be stuck in a situation where big players can't get in because there isn't the volume available. Very few are willing to sell in the 20's so any larger buy orders cause the price to spike. The same can be said for selling. This is just my humble opinion but the lack of volume is hurting us.
  • O
    Ooh Blah Dee
    Today's search for news finds the following local news story out of Charlotte, NC, that I think calls into question the wisdom of settling groundless lawsuits as class actions.

    It seems that members of the class settlement are disappointed that the amounts they've been awarded is less than the cost of their floors. Now, even though this was mathematically obvious as soon as the settlement amount was agreed to by the plaintiffs lawyers, it still comes back as a criticism of LL. Sure, we settled for peanuts and bigged up the dollar amount by throwing in generous amounts for vouchers. But our legal team's too-clever-by-half strategery didn't keep our settlement out to the news when we first penned the deal, when plaintiffs disputed the amount going to their lawyers, or now when the meager checks arrive.

    What is also interesting is the video's flooring defects don't seem to have to do with the flooring itself but with gaps in the shoe molding and some weird caulking on what appears to be either T-molding or an end cap. The floor is still in use so they must not hate it that much. A savvy local store manager would send a team out there to renail and recaulk the trim and thereby win the news cycle. But I'm sure the hip young millennials we hire don't watch local news. (Or own a home either, but the vast majority of flooring buyers do.)

    https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/customers-disappointed-with-lumber-liquidators-settlement-payments/DYEDGGGBY5AZHIPQEDOIKL33MY/
  • K
    Kevin
    Cannot figure out how this can move so much on almost no volume?
  • W
    Wizzles
    I was wondering if someone might join me in a hypothetical. Let's assume they are awarded the full 14M in the lawsuit that was recently listed as "dismissed". That is about 20% of their trailing twelve month income of 70M. What affect would that have, if any, if they in fact are on track for a declining forward PE (1.4 vs 2.3 of last year)?
  • O
    Ooh Blah Dee
    It needs to be said again, since LL management refuses to say so, that we have apparently reached a settlement in our lawsuit with our product liability insurers who refused to pay five years ago.

    This ought to be in the eight figure range, at least, and if so will add between $.30 and $3 a share as a settlement. It also should lead to lower overhead expense for legal costs.

    "08-11-2021 Letters/correspondence Additional text: from Atty Jacobs in RE - Parties have stipulated. Closing docs to be filed."

    https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2015CV001089&countyNo=13&index=0#records
    Wisconsin Circuit Court Access
    wcca.wicourts.gov
  • J
    James
    SMH, there really is no love for this company. FND, on the other hand, is still flying high
  • W
    Wizzles
    I didn't realize how many people read this forum until I saw how many downvotes manbysea got. Gave me a good chuckle.
    Today was a fruitful day. I guess I'm growing sentimental of my shares, because I only peeled away a couple covered calls today.
  • J
    John J
    Any chance that FND would ever purchase LL? Seems like the models are too different and LL model has a lot more risk with lower ROI. Just asking
  • K
    Kevin
    does anyone think these kiosks are a good idea at all? And who the heck is gonna buy flooring from a kiosk and they are counting them as stores. Am I being cynical or is there an argument for this?
  • C
    Caroll
    I've always maintained that I'm a tiny fish as in tiny investor in a big pond but if I sold it would be close to 10% of the daily volume so far. This is crazy how few shares are being traded.
    Bullish
  • J
    James
    If it breaks the 18 handle, you're looking at a test toward $13. Thought this had a nice consolidation pattern to the upside, but I was wrong.
    Bearish
  • K
    Kevin
    good grief, how can this thing be down almost 3$ on 40k shares? James, still holding the 50. Still bullish?
  • W
    Wizzles
    Up 0.31%, their diversity pillar is finally pouring in the money.