Q3 2024 Dorian LPG Ltd Earnings Call

Participants

Ted Young; CFO & Treasurer; Dorian LPG Ltd.

John Hadjipateras; CEO & President; Dorian LPG Ltd.

Tim Hansen; Chief Commercial Officer & Director; Dorian LPG (DK) ApS.

John Lycouris; CEO; Dorian LPG (USA) LLC

Omar Nokta; Analyst; Jefferies Financial Group Inc.

Oystein Vaagen; Analyst; Fearnley Securities

Presentation

Operator

Good morning and welcome to the Dorian LPG's Third Quarter 2024 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode and a brief question-and-answer session will follow the formal presentation. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. Additionally, a live audio webcast for today's conference call is available on Dorian LPG's website, which is w. w. w. dot Dorian LPG com.
I would like to now turn the conference over to Ted Young, Chief Financial Officer. Thank you, Mr. Young. Please go ahead.

Ted Young

Thank you, Rob. Good morning and thank you all for joining us for our third quarter 2024 Results Conference Call. With me today are John Hadjipateras, Chairman, President and CEO of Dorian LPG limited John Lucarelli, Chief Executive Officer of Dorian LPG USA, and Tim Hansen, Chief Commercial Officer.
As a reminder, this conference call, webcast and a replay of this call will be available through February eighth, 2024. Many of our remarks today contain forward looking statements based on current expectations. These statements may often be identified with words such as expect, anticipate, believe or similar indications of future expectations. Although we believe that such forward-looking statements are reasonable, we cannot assure you that any forward-looking statements will prove to be correct. These forward-looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties and other factors as well as general economic conditions. Should one or more of these risks or uncertainties materialize or should underlying assumptions or estimates prove to be incorrect, actual results may vary materially from those we expressed today.
Additionally, let me refer you to our unaudited results for the period ended December 31st, 2023 that were filed this morning on Form 10 Q. In addition, please refer to our filings on Forms 10 K and Form 10 K, where you'll find risk factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those forward-looking statements.
Finally, please also refer to the investor highlights. Slides posted this morning on our website, which we will refer during the call with that, I'll turn over the call to John Hadjipateras.

John Hadjipateras

Thank you, and thank you for joining us. John Corus had Tim and me to discuss our third quarter financial play 24 results. As you will hear in more detail from 10 in the financial year to date, we earned a record average TCE, record spot TCE and record EBITDA while maintaining a strong balance sheet and capital to invest in our segment and in our decarbonization initiatives, we continue to return capital to our shareholders, including our recently declared $1 per share dividend. We will have returned over $690 million to shareholders since our IPO.
As one of the largest share operators in our segment, we believe we are well positioned to continue our profitable performance in the LPG sector and beyond. More than 40 ships were absorbed into the fleet in 2023, a 12% addition, this was the largest number of ships delivered in a single year since a delivery in 2016 of 46 ships, which represented 23% of the then existing fleets.
Of the 17 new buildings slated for delivery in 2024. We have already started trading. We deal with the market volatility of 2023, if I could quickly, but that if rates spiked as evidence of the demand and supply being close to equilibrium, the recent near total elimination of waiting time. So they can now, which is no draft restricted, is not sustainable. The Canal Authority and prioritizing container ships and LNG ships. Over LPG., there are 109 new Panamax containerships and 73 LNT ships slated for delivery this year for these reasons as well as the power reduction reduction resulting in slower speeds, which didn't happen last year.
We are optimistic. One is our side. We continue to invest in improving the quality of life of our displays, Ukrainians seafarers and their families. We recently introduced a simplified payment system through an e-wallet that enables them to receive their monthly allotment quickly on with less apps.
On the social front, we will enter our chef n a pilot program through the wallboard alliance with Global Maritime Forum sponsored initiative, which will enable accelerated data selection regarding diversity and increased opportunities flow generators at sea. We are evaluating compelling mission saving devices and low friction change for our ships.
During Q3, we paid a lot of our dried auctions with silicon paid and have signed new contracts for energy saving devices that will be retrofitted in the coming year. We also continue our real-time emission monitoring program and have been happening enhance the initiative by installing manned Echo for engine diagnostics tool for 20 of our own chips. We have expanded our Performance Team in Denmark by adding a mechanical engineer. We ordered a newbuilding VLGC where they see from Han Wei shipyard in Korea for delivery in 2026 that are investigating opportunities to upgrade some of our existing ships to carry ammonia John Elicker, who will speak further on its profits to your four.

Ted Young

Thank you, John. My comments this morning will focus on our financial position and liquidity, our unaudited third quarter results and our capital allocation decisions. At December 31, 2023, we reported $208.5 million of free cash, which represented a very solid increase from the $192 million reported at the end of September.
The $208.5 million, of course, reported after the payment of the $40 million dividend that was declared and paid during the December quarter. As of January 31, we had an unrestricted cash balance of $215 million, which is net of the $23.8 million down payment made on our VLGC/AC newbuilding during January 2024.
We did not consolidate the P&L or balance sheet accounts of the Helios Pool, which has the effect of understating our reported cash. As of January 31, 2023, the pool held cash of $36.2 million and since we have a roughly 86% economic interest in the pool, it equates to cash of approximately $31 million, which is not otherwise reported on our balance sheet.
With a debt balance at quarter end of $623.8 million, our debt to total book capitalization stood at 38.8% and net debt to total book capitalization at 25.8%. As we have previously reported, our banks agreed to increase our revolving credit facility from $20 million to $50 million and derived a $100 million accordion line for vessel acquisitions to the facility.
We are grateful for their support and for their endorsement of our stewardship of their capital. We've begun to evaluate various pre and post delivery financing options for our VLGC/AC. with an aim of maintaining our low debt costs and high level of financial flexibility.
Looking forward, we expect our cash cost per day for the coming year to be in the range of $25,000 to $26,000 per day, excluding capital expenditures for drydocking and potentially upgrades for ammonia capability, our existing fleet, which John will discuss later for the discussion of our third quarter results. You also may find it useful to refer to the investor highlights slides posted this morning on our website. I will also remind you that my remarks will include a number of terms such as TC. operating days available days and adjusted EBITDA. Please refer to our filings for the definitions of these terms.
For third quarter chartering results, we achieved the TCE $76,337 per operating day with a total utilization of 93.6%, yielding utilization adjusted TCE of about $71,431. This TCE result represents the best in the Company's history.
As our entire spot trading program is conducted through the Helios Pool. The spot rent results for Helios are the best measure of our spot chartering performance. For the December 31, quarter, the Helios Pool or the spot TC of $91,417 per day, which is the highest spot rate the pool has ever earned for a quarter.
On page 4 of the investor highlights materially, you can see that we have five Dorian vessels on time charter within the pool, plus one MOL Energia vessel indicating spot exposure of about 75% to 80% for the 27 vessels in the Helios Pool.
Turning to the quarter ending March 31, 2024, we currently have over 60% of the available days in the Helios Pool booked at a time charter equivalent in excess of $100,000 per day, reflecting the very strong rates booked earlier for voyages that will be carried out this calendar quarter. Please note that that rate includes both spot fixtures and time charters.
Our OpEx per calendar day, excluding drydocking costs was $9,909, which was down somewhat sequentially from the prior quarter. Reductions in lubricants and spares and stores drove the decline our time charter and expense for the fourth time charter-in vessels came in at $8.4 million, which is lower than budgeted due to some fuel efficiency underperformance claims.
Total G&A for the quarter was $7.7 million and cash G&A, that is G&A, excluding noncash compensation expense, was about $6.3 million. Of that $6.3 million, about $500,000 included aid to our Ukrainian seafarers and some employee bonuses. Thus, our core G&A came in at roughly $5.8 million, which is consistent with our expectations.
Non-cash compensation expense for the quarter was $1.4 million, which is consistent with the guidance that we gave last quarter. Our reported adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $133 million, which is the best quarterly adjusted EBITDA in our corporate history. Our adjusted EBITDA for the last 12 months is nearly $415 million.
Turning to debt service, our cash interest expense, which we calculate as the sum of the line items, interest expense excluding deferred financing fees and other loan expenses and realized gain loss on interest rate swap derivatives for the quarter was $7.5 million, a decline of about $200,000 from the prior quarter, reflecting lower average debt in our all-in cost of debt of about 4.7%, which I would note, is below current floating SOFR rates. Quarterly principal amortization remained steady at $13.3 million.
Our trailing 12 month net income is about $304 million. And with average book shareholders equity for the same 12 month period of roughly $[911] million, we generated a 33.4% return on shareholders' equity. We are proud of this result because it not only reflects the strong profitability that our platform can generate. It also shows that we've managed to keep our shareholders' equity at an appropriate level, balancing retention of capital while still paying a meaningful dividend to our shareholders. The $1 per share dividend declared last week and payable on February 27, to shareholders of record February 5, 2024, brings our total dividends paid to $11.50 per share or nearly $465 million in aggregate.
We understood

Question and Answer Session

Operator

Ladies and gentlemen, please stand by. Our team are experiencing technical difficulties. Our conference will begin momentarily.
Thank you. Once again, ladies gentlemen, Israel and Your teleconference will resume momentarily.
Thank you. Thank you for standing by. Ladies and gentlemen, please please continue.

Ted Young

And thanks, Rob. Again, we're positive on the long-term prospects of our business, but we are mindful of the near term headwinds.
With that, I'll pass it over to Tim Hansen.

Tim Hansen

Yes, good day, everyone, and thanks for dialing in as always, the VLGC market created some interesting times for the participants. A record-setting strength of December contrasted sharply with the market during January 2020. For the quarter ending December 31st, 23. So record-breaking high freight levels for VLGCs, primary drivers of the firm freight market for dividing line in the US to Asia albatross, several new restrictions applies to the Panama Canal and subsequent vessel routing decisions amid the uncertainty about the Panamax and the Suez Canal transits.
Turning first to the arbitrage in North America, production of natural gas liquids continued to increase inventories to record levels. This was amidst an unseasonably warm start to the winter, increased supply of LPG, lower US export prices, offsetting some of the short-term concerns about Asia import demand as a leader was also at the level it was also experiencing a weak winter. The effect of the drop in Panama has been widely discussed. The Panama Canal introduce new restrictions on deals as she transitions at the end of October, a severe reduction of order level necessitated a reduction in daily transits with the cost of booking chances of VLCCs becoming more expensive.
By the first week of November, offers for new Panama Canal transits reached a peak of just under $4 million and some operators face the real possibility of not being able to secure a northbound transit. VLGCs were opting for alternative routes, some churning around Mid Pacific to avoid uncertainty of the Panama Canal and a few opting to ballast around South America, resulting in increased ton miles as well as impacting lead time for owners and charters in estimating arrival in the US Gulf for loading scheduling impact was eventually price into the freight levels and Lakers are fixed almost two months forward of the fixing window. The uncertainties about scheduling and the cost impact a pipe of business in both balanced and in label with shadow space and potentially restrictive high, often the prices at the Panama Canal or choosing the longer laden passage via the Suez Canal.
On average, the quarter ending December 23 averaged 25 VLGCs ballasting to the US Gulf, which was 10 months compared to an average of 13 VLCCs per month on the quarter. Prior source Canal routing was preferred investments in ballast and laden to such a degree that in December, the Baltic Index. So few rates are fixed under the agreed index of Houston Chiba near Panama terms with the bulk of fixtures being reported on issues in Chiba. The issue was raised the shift in pricing loans made assessment of the market, more difficult. It testifies to the significant shift in trading routes for the VLGCs over the period.
However, geopolitical tensions in the Middle East methodology, which was a short-lived solution withdrawn and missile attacks and directly escalated through December operators began to decline Richie rude on grounds of safety, a huge issue for push towards routed via the Cape of Good Hope for the first time in several years, more than 10 VLCCs ballast it via the Cape of Good Hope and one months as a result, the adage and MICE, I suppose the freight market in the short term now reflecting on how conditions can change at the beginning of January. Several factors increase the fee claims forecast of the cold snap in January in the U.S. created an anticipation of a sudden increase in domestic LPG consumption, which began to be priced into the product market and reducing the west-to-east arbitrage.
What are the key drivers? Also, the five index prices were on the decline amidst Asian importers anticipating reduced import demand due to lower demand for heating. Therefore, the average U.S. started to narrow impacted the normal arbitrage economics.
During January session new building of 29% of the expected deliveries in 2024 we delivered, creating a solid increase in new vessel supply for the third calendar quarter of 2012. Congestion in the Panama Canal declined significantly and rapid. This month's Contributing factors include the rerouting of the indices via Cape lighter container vessel traffic and increased rainfall in the Panama Canal. Initially, this unfortunately will create a temporary oversupply in both the US Gulf and highways ports, putting pressure on the rates as you've seen during this quarter, which should normalize, as mentioned, supply, sub-salt, off-rate and freight margin can be volatile and is subject to a wide range of factors that may influence short-term freight rates. But we also have a number of strong cyclical lows. Security affects us in our favor, a warmer spring climate in North America will contribute to more LPG supply at more favorable prices than typically ship anticipation going forward is, therefore, more widening is the west to east, we expect to only 15 remaining newbuildings to deliver this year compared to the 42 that were successfully absorbed last year, we expect the newbuilding deliveries to be upsold based on the forecasted increase in exports.
We continue to see LBC take market share from other fuel sources and intellectually for significant growth in propane dehydration as incredibly intense. I expected particularly in Asia. Panama Canal congestion issues are far from solved. Daily transit numbers are still 10 currencies less per day than in July 23, and it's only expected to revert to the normal levels during the summer. The routing of VLCCs and other segments back towards the Panama Canal will again increase the congestion. And in addition to the VLCC newbuildings, there's expected delivery of 73 LNG. and 109 new Panamax containerships in 2024. This will increase the demand for passenger traffic analysis and we don't expect congestion to return and to be the norm rather than the exception in the canal, we already reassures and pay from your disease, thus expected to become more pronounced in 2024 due to the uncertainties of forecasting the Panama Canal transits and costs. Thus, we do remain positive on the medium to long-term prospects for our business. While acknowledging that short term volatility is ever-present.
With that, I'll pass you over to Mr. Jean liqueurs.

John Lycouris

Thank you very much, Tim. At Dorian LPG, we firmly believe that we should be part of and provide long-term solutions to the world's decarbonization objectives and goals. Our investment in scrubbers continues to derive strong returns. Our average daily net savings over the quarter on our scrubber vessels stood at about $3,000 per day or about $3.4 million for the quarter.
Fuel differentials between high-sulfur fuel oil and low-sulfur fuel oil averaged about $202 in the last quarter of 2023. The pricing differential of the LPG as fuel versus fuel oil, low sulfur fuel oil, stood at about $183 per metric ton, which was helpful for dual-fuel engine vessels when operating with LPG.
We now have a total of 14 scrubber fitted vessels and one chartered-in vessel. And we plan to retrofit another vessel with a scrubber unit in the second quarter of 2020 for the installations of energy-saving devices and the silicon, how coatings to our vessels have provided significant performance improvements in fuel savings, reduction of the fleet CO2 emissions and improved CAIV-T beside our capital, our vessel Captain John NP, which was originally built as a VLGCVLAC., as I now called, we are upgrading some of our vessels to carry ammonia as it is quite feasible for a good portion of the workplace to carry out such outbreaks.
The EU emissions trading system that came into effect in January 1, 2024 is applicable to all ships, calling it a few ports shipping companies will surrender their two year 2024. You allowances latest by September 2025 and every year thereafter. And it will reflect the CO2 emissions while their vessels were trading in EU waters. In line with end user pays principle the cost of complying with the EUETS established by the owner to the time charter who is ultimately responsible for the purchase and transfer of the monthly fee you allowances to the owners account for spot voyages. We expect the new allowances to be added to the freight invoice in line with the end users base grew.
In continuation of Julian's commitment to sustainability and improving the company's greenhouse gas profile, we have recently invested into companies to seek solutions to climate issues from carbon and methane emissions. Io NADA is planning to market a compact modular Carbon Capture System for small and mid-sized carbon emitters that would be applicable to many industries, including marine applications.
The fact that technology claims 30% better efficiency than conventional carbon capture technologies as it works with a large array of hollow fiber contact membranes of absorbent solutions, achieving about 90% capture of carbon dioxide in post-combustion flue gases.
The second is Avalon, which focuses on the avoidance of methane gas emissions from waste resources such as landfill gas, biogas and waste biomass. These emissions, instead of being granted or burned on site are converted into high value, carbon negative and carbon neutral fuels like bio LNG buyer and PG. green methanol and green ammonia. The modular and scalable technology can be situated at methane emission size where it can be transformed into high quality syngas and after treatment consolidated as ever to the energy moving and ideation industries.
Finally, our recent new building contract to build a new VOGCVLAC. at handwashing yard in South Korea is in line with our commitment to employ capital where we see commercial and financial opportunities for investors. We believe that the future green hydrogen economy will largely depend on large quantities of ammonia, applying the and dedicated vessels beside earning good economic returns and such trades. We also firmly believe that we should be caught up and provide long-term solutions to the world's decarbonization objectives and goals.
And now I would like to pass it over to John Hadjipateras for the closing comments and questions.

John Hadjipateras

Thank you very much, John. We're happy to take questions okay. Fine. Who cares to ask them, please?

Operator

Thank you. (Operator Instructions) Thank you. Omar Nokta, Jefferies.

Omar Nokta

Thank you, guys. Good morning. Congrats, obviously on a very strong and I guess record quarter and Ted, I just wanted to ask if you could repeat maybe that the guidance figure you mentioned for the bookings to date, did you say it was $100,000 for 60% of the quarter?

Ted Young

Yeah. That's correct, Omar. In excess of $100,000 in an excess of 60% of the days.

Omar Nokta

And that includes the TCEs.

Ted Young

That includes the full TCEs.

Omar Nokta

Okay. All right. Thank you. And then I just wanted to ask maybe and I know, Tim, you touched on this, but obviously last year was it was it was a very, very strong year for VLGCs, you had a big jump in U.S. exports had the Panama Canal, which really all that offset the newbuildings. And as you mentioned, that the fleet was fully absorbed and you know so far, things have corrected over the past few weeks and perhaps look to maybe overshot to the downside and especially in relation to where say the low point was at this time last year, what do you see as driving the pullback in rates? And when can we start to expect things to turn around for right.

John Hadjipateras

Tim? Yes, you asked Tim so I'll let him add. I mean, we have the same answer anyways.

Tim Hansen

Yes. So I mean, I mean, you're right, yes, we have a lower point now than the and the drop of last year. And we are we're kind of seeing this drop always in the first quarter at some point. But this year was it was very a quick and dramatic, but also coming from the exceptionally high point. So let's say the stars were aligned in one direction and now they are in the other direction.
I think that that what we see is posing an overreaction. And as I mentioned in the end, I think we will see U.S. inventory still a very, very high. So even with a cold winter would not, Craig was saying where is as you have seen the whole of the US running out of gas. So I think the pricing we'll we'll align again quickly as soon as the worst cold is over. And also one of the other factors is the Panama Canal, which we see every year that that after the festive season in the U.S. or the the number of transits a decline and the continuous, especially for the container business that they are less, especially a pausing in January, up to the to the Chinese holiday.
So we see also that situation as a temporarily blip, and we think that we will return to being a congestion is being being the norm rather than the exceptions and the as John mentioned, more more newbuildings on energy and containers. And we see this coming and we still see the chances are still way lower than it was last year. The number of tranches available and the -- and if you think that the new panels are, they only takes around several a day transit. So if you add 100 and -- there's a 170-some ships are all if you have the real disease, even though almost 200 ships more for the back end user come out next year and many of them is that is a main trade route, and we see these were congestions coming back.
So it was, I think, to your question, when is it? When will we see a return on. We think we think pretty soon within this corridor, we will see this line because I think it's been in over overshot on the downside. So we do see these things correcting themselves probably coming into the holidays in China soon. So that always put a little bit of a damper on the market. And also there there are some some cargoes unsold underwater, also Iranian tons that are there seems to be a problem to clear. So if you could take a little while before we see that. Yes, the bounce-back on percentage within this quarter, we do expect this to correct.

John Hadjipateras

Thanks, Tim. Thanks. Thanks. I will just add that we can never really tell which quarter it's going to happen. We can give you. What we check is guidance for where and average for the rest of the year or whatever. But and hopefully they will the market will react.
And the question is when it bounces how well it bounces. So as I said, I think before when the market starts falling, they kind of forget where to stop. So so I think we're going to hit bottom quickly quickly and then bounce back, but from where they are, you don't know, however, you have almost done. You were looking for targets. Yes.

Omar Nokta

No, that's very helpful. And that makes sense, John, what you just said, and obviously, Tim, very, very good color. Appreciate you kind of going into detail there. And then just a couple of more for me and I'll turn it over maybe just first the necessary. Next question is just on the Red Sea. Clearly, it's been very, very topical and front and center really over the past few weeks, how would you size up the impact of what's going on in the Red Sea with the diversion? How do you size that impact on the VLGC trade day in comparison to what we've been seeing or have seen in the Panama Canal last year.

John Hadjipateras

It's not so obvious Omar because the cause and the trade through that can now through the Suez Canal was almost kind of caused by the congestion who were in Panama, also the um and so the Suez Canal itself, I'm not sure the Red Sea Freight I had that is the main the main VLGC traded out of the Red Sea is out of out of Jordan and Jordan, just sorry, not out of Jordan out of Saudi Arabia, Yanbu and Jordan has absorbed some of the cargoes that would otherwise have gone. He's from Gabon, and that has displaced some cargoes that would have come from the state. So that is a negative on that on the ton-mile.
On the other hand, Saudi slowed the growth, the loading of the cargoes from Jordan to add it to the rest of the Nora, which probably won't happen. So that the so the total number of ships coming out of the out of the out of the Red Sea was, I think, four to five a month out of Yanbu representing about 30% of the exports from Saudi Arabia. So it's not it's because they're in a flux. I don't think it's easy to predict what the eventual impact of the of the Yum.

Omar Nokta

Hostilities in that region will be I mean, it's not it now that it is value that I don't know that now I appreciate you are attempting to at or at least a summarizing all that, that's helpful context as well. Thanks, Dan. And then maybe just a quick final one for me. Just on the the new building.
And just kind of thinking about John and Chris, your comments about outfitting the existing fleet to carry ammonia. I guess just one question on that would be what does the cost look like to upgrade for ammonia? And then also in terms of the new building, is there is there a price difference in ordering of VLAC. versus a VLGC and maybe just I guess for multiple questions, but what's the difference between that VLAC. and a VLGC, I guess going forward?

John Lycouris

Yes, Omar. it is it is a cost that although a number of ships is going to be quite low, but we are doing we have been looking into this for some years now. And we think that it is it significantly less than $5 million and probably even lower than that when it is amortized over a number of ships. So it is a it is something that is, let's say it takes time, but it is not a significant cost and to carry out those conversions.

John Hadjipateras

Omar, we're mindful of that because in our effort, as it applies to our not luxury, but some of our chefs. It also applies to a good number of the world fleet, so some people, but we shouldn't get too carried away with new building dedicated ammonia carriers want a good part of the fleet. The existing fleet of VLGCs could be, you know, maybe less efficient than a new ship, but they could still carry ammonia with some modifications and upgrade.

Operator

Austin Avago, Fearnley Securities.

Oystein Vaagen

Hey, guys. Just a quick question from me. As you just discussed, your rates have been quite high over the last couple of months. And this winter or some astonishing are astonishingly high. But you know, you booked $91,000 roughly on the spots and pool for the fourth quarter. But again, that's not really up at the highs as we saw spot rates go to $140,000. And now you're talking about the $100,000, which I guess makes sense as ship owners take from coverage on the way up. But my question is now with spot rate limiters now of the low cash breakeven levels and close to OpEx, what kind of levels are you fixing at today and that doesn't work differently on the way down as well?

Ted Young

Well, both I'd say a couple of things. First of all, just to be clear on the results that we mentioned going forward. There is a measure of time charter ships in there. What's your which are lower the spot, the spot market rates that are booked in that forward number, they're very attractive. And as for current fixing like, that's pretty commercially sensitive information. We, as a general matter, don't really comment on it. But Tim, let's get a little bit more. He may buy, say in general when we've thought when he has described this strategy does and look, our guys are been proven to be pretty good at figuring out when cargoes are going to be available and how many ships are going to be available to meet the lake in and kind of flexing our planning around that Tim, if you want to add anything to that feel feel free or not.

Tim Hansen

Yes, yes. You can say that the drop was was pretty quick. So only things that has been faced was kind of like what was in there in the front. So if you take a couple on the way down, but is actually we had six pretty far forward already so so we didn't have much to fix in the fiction window and when the market drops. So so most of our positions Conch comes only available more than a dozen months ahead from now. So so as the market is has been dropping, then people doesn't picks up far ahead. So we're not really that much of the fiction window yet. So we'll see if it turns around before we get there. But yes, thanks again.

Oystein Vaagen

And just your guidance or, you know, fixing window now in the market in general, is that early March our where are we now?

John Hadjipateras

(multiple speakers) I mean, the way was called yourselves unconnected women, I'm sorry, but we don't we don't want to go too much into them. That's something that they like and they can't handle.

Ted Young

It's commercially sensitive.

Operator

Thank you. We've reached the end of the question-and-answer session, and I'll now turn the call over to John Hadjipateras for closing remarks.

John Hadjipateras

Thank you, Rob. Thank you for your questions. And my are to a value of the other questioners. Have a good quarter in February and see you next time.

Operator

This will conclude today's conference. You may now disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day.