Q4 2023 PAVmed Inc Earnings Call
Participants
Dennis McGrath; CFO, President; PAVmed Inc.
Lishan Aklog; Chairman, CEO; PAVmed Inc.
Unidentifided Participant
Ross Osborn; Analyst; Cantor Fitzgerald & Co.
Ed Woo; Analyst; Ascendiant Capital Markets LLC
Nick Sherwood; Analyst; Maxim Group LLC
Presentation
Operator
Good morning, and welcome to PAVmed's fourth quarter and full year 2023 business update conference call. At this time, all lines are in listen-only mode. (Operator Instructions) This call is being recorded on Wednesday, March 27, 2024. I would now like turn the conference over to Dennis McGrath, PAVmed President and Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead, Dennis.
Dennis McGrath
Thank you, operator. Go morning, everyone, and thank you for participating in today's fourth quarter 2023 business update call. Press release announcing our business update for the company and financial results for the fourth quarter and full year ended December 31, 2023, is available on the PAVmed website. Please take a moment to read the disclaimer about forward-looking statements. The business update press release and this conference call both include forward looking statements, and these forward-looking statements are subject to known and unknown risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ materially from statements made.
Factors that could cause actual results to differ are described in the disclaimer and in our filings with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. For a list and a description of these and other important risk factors or risks and uncertainties that may affect future operations, C Part 1, Item 1A entitled risk factors and CapEx most recent annual report on Form 10-K filed with the SEC and subsequent updates filed quarterly reports on Form 10-Q and any subsequent Form 8-K filings.
Except as required by law, PAVmed disclaims any intention or obligations to publicly update or revise any forward looking statements to reflect changes in expectations or in events, conditions, or circumstances on which the expectations may be based or that may affect the likelihood that actual results will differ from those contained in the forward looking statements.
Now I would like to turn over to Dr. Lishan Aklog, PAVmed Chairman and CEO. Lishan?
Lishan Aklog
Thank you, Dennis, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our quarterly update call. Before proceeding, a couple of things I'd just today like to apologize for my scratchy voice. Blame it on the weather. I'd also like to thank our long-term shareholders for your ongoing support and commitment. We've been together through some challenging times. And as we all discussed in greater depth, we continue to leave no stone unturned to enhance long-term shareholder value.
Lucid clearly remains PAVmed's strongest and most promising assets, and we're very pleased by its commercial progress and Lucid's ability to finance its operations despite challenging market conditions. We're looking to replicate the model more broadly and have revised PAVmed's overall strategy to drive shareholder value through independently financed subsidiaries, which like Lucid can leverage PAVmed's shared infrastructure.
Consistent with this approach, we've updated Veris's commercial strategy accordingly. We've launched our PMX incubator and partnership Hatch Medical, and we've aggressively sought groundbreaking independently financed technologies with large market opportunities, agnostic of center. So to start with some recent highlights, starting with Lucid Diagnostics.
A reminder, that yesterday, we had a full presentation regarding Lucid. So I encourage everyone to view that webinar or the transcript of our webinar to get further details with Lucid Diagnostics. And I'll just give some highlights. Quarterly revenue rose nicely at 33% from prior quarter. And the health fair high-volume CYFT events continue to gain traction.
Our auto network reimbursement is improving with stable pricing, and we expanded our clinical validity and clinical utility data to support in network coverage, including Medicare. As I mentioned, I'll talk about it furthermore depth in a bit. For Veris health, we've shifted our strategy to try to target large academic and regional cancer centers and our first such engagement is expected in the very near term.
We had a final and successful FDA pre-submission meeting for the implantable monitor, and we feel we have a clear path to FDA clearance pending independent financing. As we announced last week, PAVmed launched its wholly-owned incubator, PMX and partnership with Hatch Medical to complete development and commercialization of its existing medtech portfolio technology starting with PortIO.
Next slide. So a bit more about our updated strategy, our revised strategy. As I mentioned, given the success of Lucid and Lucid's ability to independently finance itself, we've decided to -- moving forward to focus on driving shareholder value through our holdings in independently finance subsidiaries, managed through our PAVmed's shared services structure.
Following Lucid's successful path of seeking of -- we'll speak of financing opportunities directly into Veris and our subsidiaries base on the PAVmed -- on the PMX incubator technologies as well as future subsidiaries. As I mentioned, Veris is shifting to large academic centers in order to enhance its financeability. The PMX launched has proceeded and the initial [effort] will be to independently finance PortIO as a subsidiary.
We're also actively seeking new groundbreaking independently financeable technologies that have several targets that we're working on. These have large market opportunities that we've been agnostic to center, and we're looking to leverage PAVmed's existing infrastructure.
So summary of the corporate structure as follows. We have made for providing shared services. We have the Lucid Diagnostics. We have Veris health, that's the digital health platform. We have our MedTech products within our privately owned incubator PMX, and we're looking again to add additional assets consistent with the structure each of them independently financeable.
Just a couple of brief slides on Lucid. Again, I would recommend reviewing the further details in our webinar. As I mentioned, in the next slide, the stabilizer test volume expected to remain in the 2,300 to 2,500 range pending improvement and reimbursement as well as driving revenue through our early efforts that direct contracting. And you can see revenue has grown nicely since we took over and updated our revenue cycle management. This is all out of network reimbursement.
Next slide. (technical difficulty) a couple of highlights on Lucid, on the commercial execution side. As I mentioned, we're making great progress with our CYFT health fair testing events and are fully booked through July. We're increasing our activity as strategic accounts. And now we have over a dozen of these large academic medical centers to another regional centers.
And on the revenue cycle management side, we're getting about approximately 50% of our claims are now being allowed by commercial payers. And the payment amount has stabilized at a network and about $1,800. So just shy -- a bit shy of the Medicare price.
Some of the key strategic accomplishments, we strengthened Lucid, strengthened its balance sheet by raising $18.1 million of net preferred stock financing. I'll note again to put it in the broader context of Lucid's financeability. We've been gratified that Lucid has been able to raise its own capital. And this financing pushed that number well over $100 million, including the IPF.
The clinical (technical difficulty) clinical utility readout now are well positioned to support a broad medical policy coverage for EsoGuard. They're positioning us to engage with the multi expert (technical difficulty) that works on local coverage determinations on behalf of Medicare. We're looking for that (technical difficulty) reengagement to happen quite soon upon publication -- a peer review publication of one of the CV studies.
We've just started in the last month or so to hold meetings with major commercial payers using our -- using this data to formally request positive medical policy determinations and look forward to -- be on top of that. As I mentioned, we're really bullish on this direct contracting program where EsoGuard offered as a covered benefit and have expanded our team pursuing these and we have a robust pipeline of employers, self-insure entities working with brokers and a third-party administrators to offer EsoGuard in this fashion.
Next slide. So a bit of an overview on Veris. Next slide. The Veris health is a commercial stage digital health company that seeks to enhance personalized cancer care. Has two components, the Veris cancer care platform, which has a smartphone app that that patient interacts with and enters patient reported outcome information along with a platform that the physicians and other caretakers use to track physiologic parameters that are collected currently using Lucid connected external devices.
The long-term plan is to market an implantable monitor that works with this platform that would be inserted at the time of the implantation of a vascular access port for chemotherapy or immunotherapy. And the goal is to utilize modern remote patient monitoring tools to improve care through early detection of complications, longitudinal trends, and risk management.
Next slide. So a bit about our revised commercial strategy. Again, the goal here is to advance for us to the point where it can raise its own independent capital that we've had strong interest in that regard. And we felt that the commercial strategy that targeted large prestigious academic and regional cancer centers was the best path to get there. These tend to be centers that have large staffs, large number of oncologists and a large number of patients in infusion therapy. Thousands and thousands of such patients. These tend to be concentrated in metropolitan areas.
They are typically NCI designated comprehensive cancer centers. And actually many of them have venture arms and in our conversations with them, we've had interest in the data centers investing directly into Veris, and that's something we're pursuing. Among these centers, we have a robust pipeline. We have over a dozen targets with multiple active discussions.
And as I mentioned at the beginning, we have one engagement that's in it's very late stages and we expect it to consummate in the near term. Our approach with these is very different than what the smaller -- and as we initially approached the smaller oncology practices and these are more comprehensive engagement. So they start with pilot programs, and they involve long-term commercial partnerships as well as other strategic collaborations. So research and development activities, share collaborations in this regard that include developing care pathways, digital biomarkers that other innovations on our platform.
Next slide. So the Veris implantable monitor is an important feature part of this endeavor. We think ultimately will play a central role in advancing this technology among other things, that assures 100% compliance with -- with patient compliance to fulfill the requirements necessary for remote patient monitoring going. Again, it's designed to be implanted at the time of a vascular access port and provide many of the necessary physiologic parameters -- [rather] physiologic parameters as you can see listed there, continuously without the need for external devices.
This device has gone through multiple -- we've had multiple engagements with the FDA. We held our final and ultimately successful FDA pre-submission meeting a few weeks ago. And now we believe we have a clear path to FDA clearance in commercial launch, and we will push forward on that once Veris secures independent financing, which we hope to accomplish.
Next. In the final area that we announced recently is our new incubator, PMX. Next slide. So we launched PMX, as we announced last week to complete development and commercialization of products existing portfolio technologies, which many -- our [launcher] PAVmed shareholders will remember. The PortIO implantable intraosseous vascular access device, EsoCure esophageal ablation device which has been licensed out Lucid for commercialization once completed.
The CarpX minimally invasive device for carpal tunnel syndrome. Each of these technologies had advanced quite far with CarpX device having been cleared and was undergoing a second generation product development. These had been put on the back burner at the time they were restructuring about a year ago, and we're very excited to have launched these again in the context of this incubator through a joint venture with Hedge Medical, very experienced group of medtech veterans in a long history of advancing medtech technologies as well as brokering partnerships and strategic acquisition. So we're really looking forward to that.
The structure is that we will seek to independently finance the separate subsidiary of the incubator to develop and commercialize each technology. And our first target, we're just getting started on seeking financing for this is PortIO. It's the first such device, the first implantable intraosseous vascular access device and our first solutions for patients with poor veins or the need to preserve veins for dialysis.
It eliminates the need for regular maintenance flushes and is resistant to occlusion and infections compared to traditional access devices. The estimated market opportunity, not including the dialysis population, is about $500 million. We completed the first human study in Colombia in 2022, and that study in 9 patients, we demonstrated excellent device functions operating just as designed. And there were no complications in any of those patients.
Using this data we hope to add to extensive engagement we've had already with the FDA, and we believe we now have a clear path to a US IDE or investigational device exemption in clinical study that will be necessary to get a De Novo regulatory clearance. So looking forward to getting this financed and looking forward to fulfill its commercial potential. And then in series or in parallel, pursue similar pathways for EsoCure and CarpX.
And with that, I'll pass things over to Dennis to talk about our financial update.
Dennis McGrath
Thanks, Lishan. Our financial results for the fourth quarter and year were reported in our press release that was published last night. On the next three slides, I will (technical difficulty) a few key highlights from the quarter, but I encourage you to consider those remarks in the context of the full disclosures covered in our annual report on Form 10-K. It was filed with the SEC Monday afternoon and is available on the PAVmed website.
So balance sheets, slide 16, here. Cash of $19.6 million reflects sequential burn at $11.8 million. But our quarterly burn rate by 31% since the beginning of the year 2023. These improvements are related to the cost control initiatives we put in place the beginning of the year with continued improvement with each successive quarter.
Obviously, the cash balance does not reflect the $18.1 million in additional Lucid funding just two weeks ago. We disclosed in the 10-K that our ability to fund operations beyond one year from today is largely dependent upon how revenues ramp over the next five quarters, which is highly dependent on how the reimbursement landscape for both government and private health insurers as well as successful efforts for direct contracting with self-insured employer shapes increases in payment realization of submitting claims and/or our corporate finance activities.
The change in other assets is largely related to the normal amortization of certain intangibles prepaid insurance, as an example, the application of advanced vendor deposits to current period in current expenses. With regard to the convertible note, the balance reflects a $37.7 million in face value principal plus $6.5 million in fair value accounting convention, which is a non-cash amount that gets added to that principal for accounting purposes.
The face value principle is split between PAVmed and Lucid at approximately $27 million and $11 million, respectively. During the fourth quarter, the face value principle was r educed by about $1 million with the issuance of approximately 387,000 shares, post-split shares and common shares.
Other long-term liabilities are from capitalized leases related to our lab and office spaces. Shares outstanding, including unvested restricted stock awards of $8.8 million. The GAAP outstanding shares of $8.6 million are reflected on the slide as well as the face of the balance sheet on the 10-K.
Slide 17. Slide 17 compares this year's fourth quarter to last year's fourth quarter and similarly for the yearly totals on certain key items. For us to review the information, my comments will light up the cautionary disclosure at the bottom of slide about supplemental information, particularly non-GAAP information.
Revenue for the fourth quarter largely reflects Lucid actual cash collections for the quarter for insurance, reimbursable claims, plus invoice EsoGuard tests through the VA and about $26,000 to [serum] Auto Group under that direct contracting and is testing their -- just got underway late in the fourth quarter. Plus some invoiced amounts about $9,000 for various cancer care platform.
As detailed in our Lucid quarterly calls yesterday, recognized Lucid revenue of $1.04 million represented a 33% increase over the third quarter and was in line with what was previously previewed to the market. Test volume at 2,200 tests for the quarter represent just over $5 million and submitted claims for the fourth quarter at our standard ASP [of $24.99].
Lucid recognized revenue or its recognition policy. The key determinant is the probability of collection. And therefore, due to the fact that we are in the early stages of reimbursement process means revenue recognition for claims submitted for traditional government or private health insurers will be recognized when they see claim is actually collected, versus when the patient report is invoiced and submit for reimbursement.
As you'll see in our 10-K, this is called variable consideration, the jargon of GAAP's ASC 606. The revenue recognition guidelines we need live by. And presently there is insufficient predictive data to reflect revenue a test report has actually delivered. For billable amounts contract directly with employers that are fixed and determinable. There's a difference in how we recognize revenue.
We will recognize that revenue when the contracted services delivered and the contract in service generally means when the report is delivered to the referring physician. For non-GAAP loss for the year was $42 million with a quarterly average of $10.5 million and a quarterly high of $10.9 million. For the fourth quarter, non-GAAP loss was $10.6 million, very much in line with the average for the year.
Slide 18. Slide 18 is a graphic illustration of our operating expenses as presented in detail in our press release. Detailed yesterday in our Lucid investor calls, about [850,000] of the OpEx increases related to certain one-time fourth-quarter events split about evenly between clinical research related to our published studies at that point sales costs and the patent expenses. The balance relates to Veris particularly some animal studies to advance our work on the implantable.
As also noteworthy of repeating some reimbursement stats as mentioned on the Lucid call yesterday. Since the new revenue cycle [management] products took over in mid-June, about 7,800 claims representing almost $20 million in pro forma revenues have been submitted for reimbursement. About 82% of those 7,800 claims have been adjudicated already, which means 18% are still pending.
Out of the 82% that have been adjudicated, about 46% resulted in an allowable now by the insurance company with an average of $1,828 allowable per test. Of those denied, of which 54% were denied -- about 51% of those that were denied fell into a couple of different buckets.
They either required additional information. That was about 7% of them. Or deemed not medically necessary. That was 26%. That's probably the most puzzling piece because the guidelines are well established. The patients meet those guidelines for tested and we bill the bill. Medically not necessary is denial is one that's right for appeal. For the last bucket, 18% of those tonight require a prior authorization. About 29% were deemed not [correct].
So with that, operator, let's open it up for questions.
Question and Answer Session
Operator
(Operator Instructions) Frank Takkinen, Lake Street Capital Markets.
Unidentifided Participant
Good morning, This is Nelson on for Frank. Hey good morning. So any of you can make any additional commentary on the biomarker legislation mentioned in yesterday's call? what does the steps look like to pain covered to a [stat]? And how do you think about that opportunity impacting your business overall?
Lishan Aklog
Yes. Thanks for the opportunity. I'm going to elaborate on that in a second. It's actually really important and exciting area. As we mentioned, there are 15 states. Some type of biomarker legislation, but they vary from state to state. So each one has a different flavor, the language is different. Generally they seek to mandate coverage within the state by commercial payers for biomarkers tests.
So some of them are specific to cancer, some not. And so the opportunity there is great, but it does require some work with regard to looking at each state one at a time and determining how consultation was the commercial payers there -- the language and making the case that were covered under that language.
And so we're still in the early stages of those engagements but we're starting to get some traction there and we believe that we will, many of them, if not ultimately all as we would hope -- end up with a determination that EsoGuard -- it is (technical difficulty). It is a biomarker test for cancer prevention that would be subject to mandatory coverage by payers in that state. So there are steps along the way, although the foundational language in these statues are promising.
Unidentifided Participant
Got it. And then maybe switching over to Veris, how should we think about the potential revenue contribution from that in '24 and '25? Understand there's a lot of moving pieces still. But as you shift into those large academic and regional centers, how should we think about that?
Lishan Aklog
Yeah. I'll let Dennis maybe chime in a bit, but sort of conceptually and strategically, we're moving away. We still have some existing accounts up with that are oncology practices, but the cost of acquisition of these accounts was significantly higher. We needed a full service team to do that. While engaging with strategic accounts has longer lead times -- I think there's more time because (technical difficulty) strategic accounts is because there's a strategic dimension to these engagements.
So they have longer lead times But the commercial opportunity in the revenue opportunity in particular is higher. So I'll let Dennis maybe chime in a little bit onto on how we're not really projecting. But these are larger accounts, think one of the accounts that were in the late stages of discussing, has 10,000 patients with getting infusion therapy.
And so the revenue opportunity is substantial. It's equivalent to dozens of smaller cancer oncology practices. The process for getting to -- being in position where we would have some meaningful portion of those patients on the platform is not (technical difficulty) so short.
Often we would expect to start with a pilot program in one particular area, within that cancer center -- for example, a higher risk subgroup like bone marrow transplant and then work our way to our broader application. So what don't I leave it there and see if Dennis has any further (technical difficulty) lot of comments on revenue trajectory. But this is clearly we believe the path towards sustained value creation within Veris on financeability.
Dennis McGrath
Yeah. Maybe just a few other data points. So as Lishan indicated, these large strategic accounts have a large patient population, 10,000 was the number that Lishan put there and if you think about the top 10 cancers centers in the United States, they're all in that kind of framework of large patient pools.
And you'll recall, this is as a recurring revenue model for us. Reimbursement is not an issue. That was already established. The general notion is that we would collect about the $80 per patient per month, or each patient that's on the platform.
Lishan already mentioned, our selling costs will be less because of just a single person getting of much larger opportunity. The transition will initially be pilot program, connected devices, ultimately higher penetration and adoption of the patient pool on the platform down the road. Implantable devices is part of it.
These larger institutions tend to have a venture arm whether or not they -- whether they participate in one that they influence decision making or they have one themselves adds to the ability to finance this and can become an anchor and a tenant, if you will, in a financing for this opportunity to all of the piece parts makes sense.
The smaller cancer centers that we have started with have demonstrated the effectiveness of the platform of the completeness of it, the ability to monitor patients. So all of the validation side of the technology has now been accomplished with the smaller institutions we've been involved with. It's now time to step up to these larger opportunities, which give us a greater opportunity for scaling and scaling with the recurring revenue.
So I think that's what the -- over the next two years you'll see more of this and how fast that speed will be in terms of adoption remains to be seen here. But we are pretty optimistic about what could occur over the next several quarters for us.
Unidentifided Participant
Awesome. Thanks, guys, and congrats on the progress.
Lishan Aklog
All right. Thanks, Frank.
Operator
Ross Osborn, Cantor Fitzgerald.
Ross Osborn
Hi, good morning, everyone. So I understand the [special] order centers, but would be curious to hear if the biopharma opportunity still interesting, maybe the post market studies phase?
Lishan Aklog
Yeah. We didn't mention that because that's sort of the anchor of what we're pursuing here in the near term is with the large -- our expectation in terms of very near opportunities aren't there. But yes, we are still actively involved. We have discussions with two major biopharma companies, just to remind everybody, thanks for triggering to have the opportunity to talk about this.
There's a separate -- related, but separate opportunity to apply this platform technology partnership with them to biopharma companies or launching a large number of new cancer therapies, many of which are expensive and maybe which are very intense in their therapy and can lead to complications and therefore can benefit from monitoring.
And these conversations are focused around the Phase 4 of the post market surveillance aspect of this where a drug -- a new cancer therapies is launched, but launched -- is cleared and launch, but only, as they say, a third or fourth or even first-line therapy for patients who failed other therapies because of the still to be proven balance between safety and effectiveness.
And so there's a strong well and a strong interest with these companies to improve the outcomes during those Phase 4 post market surveillance studies and the opportunity for remote patient monitoring platform to monitor and to enhance the safety of these drugs by picking up changes in the patient before they result in complications.
And yeah, those are conversations that remain ongoing. There's strong interest. There's clearly a synergy. They are also a long lead time conversations. They are not going to happen overnight. But it does remain an important (technical difficulty) strategic focus. But I would still emphasize the large academic centers as being some of the linchpin of our near-term strategy.
Ross Osborn
Okay, great. And then sticking with Veris, would you provide an update on where you stand in development work on next gen PortIO offerings?
Lishan Aklog
For next gen, you mean for PortIO? Just to be sure that I heard you correctly.
Ross Osborn
Yes.
Lishan Aklog
Yeah. PortIO, we used the first-generation device in the first in-human study and that demonstrated really excellent results and with no complications. We have a second generation device that's within its late stages of development that enhance some of the usability and structure. (technical difficulty) handle and a few other things.
Fundamentally, the actual implantable question wasn't safe. So there's a bit of additional work to get that through verification and validation testing and ready for use in clinical study come. So we haven't decided yet as to whether we're going to proceed -- I would say the most likely path. If we can secure financing for PortIO in the near term would be to proceed with the IDE -- with the first-generation device and then transition into the second generation midstream if that becomes ready.
We're really anxious to start an IDE study we've done. So in a lot of time with FDA over the previous years on fine tuning variety of preclinical work as well as various aspects of the study design. We think we're in a good position to get an approved IDE based on the first in-human results, which we're guaranteed to do when we stopped the development -- the positive development work a year ago. So that's pretty much where we stand. Hopefully, that answers your question.
Unidentifided Participant
Yes. Thanks for taking my questions.
Operator
Ed Woo, Ascendiant Capital.
Ed Woo
Thank you for taking my question. My question is on the recently announced the incubator that you guys are developing. What is your exact responsibility of any financial commitments to -- for the incubator?
Lishan Aklog
So the incubator is a wholly-owned subsidiary of (technical difficulty) 100% owned. It's just that -- structurally we're dropping those assets into the incubator. And we're seeking to -- on a product-by-product basis, secure individual financing, just like you would with a freestanding incubator, seeking to secure financing for the development and commercial -- regulatory clearance and commercialization of each individual product.
And that would be in a separate subsidiary where there would be the additional stakeholders including anyone who finances in that particular. So there's an opportunity to finance individual products. We have a partnership with Hatch Medical that would -- that incentivizes them to sort of help with that process on an individual product by product basis. But the incubator itself remains a wholly owned by PAVmed.
Dennis, do you want to add any color to that?
Dennis McGrath
Yeah. So the game plan here is to have a joint venture with Hatch where they will provide capital. We will provide talent, engineering, knowledge, and know-how about market. And ultimately, once a decision is made about whether this is fully commercialized or we look to partner with a commercial entity, Hatch has the ability to broker that transaction as well. So the full-service entity that can provide both financing development work, the exit and brokerage combined with the talent that we have internally to bring this to its full realization.
Lishan Aklog
Just one point of clarification. So it will be the entities -- PAVmed entity or subsidiary of the incubator that will be raising the capital our partnership Hatch is -- that's designed to help at all aspects, whether the company introduced [due] to potential financial partners, [angel] networks and also participate in the development. And ultimately, as Dennis said, an area where they've had great success over the years in brokering commercial and strategic transactions.
Ed Woo
Great. Well, thank you. Wish you guys. Good luck. Thank you.
Lishan Aklog
Thanks, Ed.
Operator
Nick Sherwood, Maxim Group.
Nick Sherwood
(multiple speakers) Thank you for taking my question. For the incubator, do you plan on being the majority owners of those products that are spun also the incubator? Are you open to having minority stakes in CarpX or any of the other products?
Lishan Aklog
I mean, our expectation is we have a target financings for each of them. They're not huge. They're relatively modest in terms of the amount of capital required to get each of those products through regulatory clearance and commercial launch. And so we would not expect the financing into them to be dilutive to the (technical difficulty) minority stake.
So our expectation is that the -- each of the products and subsidiaries would still be a majority owned because we expect the valuations and the capital needs to reflect that math. Look, over the long term, if they're -- once these are launched commercially and there's opportunities to partner with entities that are looking to deploy our resources to advance and accelerate the commercialization that -- we're open to whatever kinds of transactions are in the best interests of our shareholders.
And that could include anything up to an acquisition of that technology by larger strategic. But I would say that as quickly as we think otherwise in the initial transaction, the initial financing to relaunch these products, the amount of capital that we're seeking to raise in each of these is a modest enough that I wouldn't expect really don't anticipate PAVmed losing its majority stake in any of these.
Dennis McGrath
I agree.
Nick Sherwood
Awesome. Thanks for the detail. And then my final question is how far along in the progress for securing independent financing for the Veris system to clear the path to FDA submission in the five 10-K clearance?
Lishan Aklog
So we have interest. We've had discussions with various groups that have expressed interest in that. And what we've decided to do is to look to consummate our first -- to demonstrate that we can engage with a major large academic cancer center and sort of demonstrate and do a proof of concept that there's an opportunity to continue to do that. So our expectation is that once we do sign the first contract then we will be able to come to engage with various folks that have expressed an interest and consummated financing shortly thereafter.
Nick Sherwood
Can you share with us the size of that target pool of the institutions?
Dennis McGrath
Yes, we have a -- yeah, I mean, they're obviously based on a -- we've done this in a very systematic way and based on sort of the criteria that I outlined in that slide, about NCI centers, mega centers, minimum of at least 20 oncologist, a minimum number of patients are getting systemic infusion therapy and so forth. There are dozens of such centers across the country.
We have a couple of dozen that are on our target list and about a dozen that will make active [inquiries] with. I would say we have five or six where we've actually had active discussions. One of them again is very late stage and a couple of others are -- at least one other is far along and a couple of others are making progress with. Hopefully that gives you some color.
Nick Sherwood
Yes, that's perfect. Thank you for answering my questions, and I'll hop back into the queue.
Lishan Aklog
Great. Thanks, Nick.
Operator
(Operator Instructions) There are no further questions at this time. Please proceed.
Dennis McGrath
Lishan.
Lishan Aklog
Oh, sorry. Thank you all for joining us today and for the great questions. And as always, we look forward to keeping abreast of our progress of via press releases and conference calls such as this one. The best way to keep up with PAVmed or Lucid news, our updates events is -- I would encourage you to sign up for our e-mail alerts on both the PAVmed and Lucid Investor Relation website and to follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn as well. So thanks very much, everybody and have a great day.
Operator
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes your conference call for today. We thank you for participating and ask that you please disconnect your lines.
