Q4 2023 PRA Group Inc Earnings Call

Participants

Najim Mostamand; Vice President, Investor Relations; PRA Group, Inc.

Vikram Atal; President & CEO; PRA Group, Inc.

Rakesh Sehgal; EVP & CFO; PRA Group, Inc.

Mark Hughes; Analyst; Truist Securities

John Rowan; Analyst; Janney Montgomery Scott LLC

Robert Dodd; Analyst; Raymond James & Associates, Inc.

Presentation

Operator

Good evening, and welcome to PRA Group's fourth-quarter and full-year 2023 conference call. (Operator Instructions) Please note this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Mr. Najim Mostamand, Vice President, Investor Relations for PRA Group. Please go ahead.

Najim Mostamand

Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining us. With me today are Vik Atal, President and Chief Executive Officer, and Rakesh Sehgal, Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. We will make forward-looking statements during the call, which are based on management's current beliefs, projections, assumptions, and expectations. We assume no obligation to revise or update these statements.
We caution listeners that these forward-looking statements are subject to risks, uncertainties, assumptions and other factors that could cause our actual results to differ materially from our expectations. Please refer to the earnings press release and our SEC filings for a detailed discussion of these factors. The earnings release, the slide presentation that we will use during today's call, and our SEC filings can all be found in the Investor Relations section of our website at www.pragroup.com.
Additionally, a replay of this call will be available shortly after its conclusion, and the replay dial-in information is included in the earnings press release. All comparisons mentioned today will be between Q4 2023 and Q4 2022, unless otherwise noted, and our Americas results include Australia.
During our call, we will discuss adjusted EBITDA and debt to adjusted EBITDA for the 12 months ended December 31, 2023 and December 31, 2022. Please refer to today's earnings release and the appendix of this slide presentation used during this call for a reconciliation of the most directly comparable US GAAP financial measures to these non-GAAP financial measures. And with that, I'd now like to turn the call over to Vik Atal, our President and Chief Executive Officer.

Vikram Atal

Thank you, Najim, and thank you, everyone, for joining us this evening. at the stock. I want to spend a moment taking each and every one of my team members for their hard work and sacrifice and dedication through a challenging year. I could not be prouder of their contributions as we move into the new year. It is, of course, necessary that we look back at our performance in 2023. Equally, if not more importantly, Peter is an opportune time for us to share our perspectives and expectations with regard to our future performance.
Our disappointing results in the first quarter of 2020, largely due to underperformance in our U.S. business crystallized ideal candidates through the balance of last year. First, stabilized performance and incentives to drive the turnaround. It's worth reminding everyone that I assumed the position of the CEO in March 2023, and that during the year, we experienced significant changes to the vast majority of our policy and strategy making C-suite team in rebuilding my seniority in whom I have the highest confidence I have concentrated on returning a keen sense of urgency, operational excellence, teamwork and shareholder alignment to our collective focus. Furthermore, senior leaders and employees of the company have stepped up to place significant roles as we realigned responsibilities together, we have identified and made substantial progress since April 2023 on numerous important areas of operations where gaps and strategy and performance have developed. I will cover some of this in greater detail later on the call. A few of these changes have been more complex process organizational redesign, which have taken some time to properly implement. And those financial results are expected to flow through commencing in 2024, as Vikesh will outline in a moment our financial performance for the fourth quarter and full year of 2023 underscores the progress we've made to stabilize performance. Following his remarks, I will provide details regarding the scope pacing and progress of our turnaround and the associated financial expectations.
With that over to Nikesh.
Thanks, Blake.

Rakesh Sehgal

At a macro level, during 2023, we integrated our management team globally grew our business with additional portfolio investments, had our debt rating affirmed and made tangible progress on our cash generating and operational initiatives while controlling our expenses.
Turning now to our fourth quarter results. Starting with portfolio purchases, we purchased 285 million of portfolios during the quarter, consistent with the prior year period. For the full year, we purchased 1.2 billion of portfolios, up 36% year over year. This full year volume represents the third highest level in Company history, and it's particularly encouraging when you consider that these investments are being achieved at improved prices and expected returns compared to the 2020 to 2022 time period, which was marked by low supply in the U.S. and tight pricing globally. In the Americas, we invested 162 million in the quarter, up 27% year over year. In the U.S., we deployed $141 million, which was up 61% year over year. This reflected our strongest Q4 investment level in the US in the last five years. The improved pricing as demonstrated by the purchase price multiple in our 2023 Americas or vintage, which was initially recorded at 1.75 times at the end of the first quarter. But ended the year at 1.97 times.
Moving to Europe, we invested 123 million across multiple markets during the quarter, demonstrating the diversification of our European business. This amount was up sequentially but lower when compared to Q4 of last year, driven by fewer large spot transactions coming to market and what we would typically see in Q4 moving on to our financial results. Total revenues were 221 million for the quarter and 803 million for the year. Total portfolio revenue for the quarter was $217 million with portfolio income of $195 million and changes in expected recoveries of $23 million. As a reminder, portfolio income is the yield component of our revenue. You can see on the chart on the left, as the fourth quarter represented the second quarter in a row that portfolio income has grown year over year. We expect this growth in portfolio income to continue reflecting not only purchases and pricing changes that have already taken place, but also new projected investments that are expected to grow growth portfolio.
Turning to the chart on the right, in addition to portfolio income, our revenues include changes in expected recoveries, which encompasses a combination of cash overperformance or underperformance in the current period and the net present value of expected changes in our ERC. To the extent that the operational initiatives that are underway create incremental value such benefit will flow through our P&L as changes in expected recoveries. During the quarter, we collected $18 million in excess of our expected recoveries, exceeding our expectations on a consolidated basis by 3% with the Americas overperforming by 1% and you're overperforming by 6%. Operating expenses for the quarter were $176 million, which was up 8% compared to the prior year period. This increase was largely driven by legal collection costs, agency fees and communication expenses, which importantly, are all linked to growth in our portfolio.
Cash efficiency was 57.3% for the fourth quarter. Legal collection costs were $23 million for the quarter, which were about $4 million from the prior year period, driven by a higher volume of accounts flowing into the legal channel from underlying portfolio growth in 2023. As a reminder, there is a timing lag when we invest in our legal channel. Typically, there is an upfront cost fee to the courts when a lawsuit is filed, which is then followed several months later by cash collections starting to Mills agency fees, which are variable and largely driven by cash collections in Brazil were up $4 million this quarter as we continued to experience strong cash collections growth in that market communication expenses were up $3 million this quarter, primarily due to expanded business volumes. Net interest expense for the fourth quarter was $51 million, an increase of $16 million, reflecting higher debt balances and increased interest rates. We recorded a tax benefit of $16 million in 2023. We expect our effective tax rate to be in the low 20% range by 2024, depending on income mix and other factors. Net loss attributable to PRA was $9 million or negative $0.22 in diluted earnings per share. For the full year, net loss attributable to PRA was $83 million or negative $2.13 in diluted earnings per share. Cash collections for the quarter were 410 million, up 5% from the prior year period and up 2% on a constant currency basis. For the quarter, Americas cash collections increased 5% or 4% on a constant currency basis, driven primarily by higher collections in Brazil. Us cash collections decreased 5% for the quarter, largely as a result of lower yields and purchase price multiples from the 2020 to 2022 vintages as the older higher yielding vintages rolled off since impact should gradually reverse as a result of higher multiples and volumes we recorded in 2023 and the early part of 2024. European cash collections for the quarter increased 5% or roughly flat on a constant currency basis. Our 2023 cash performance versus our expectations at December 31, 2022, experienced 6% overperformance in Europe and 3% underperformance in the Americas. Our 1% overperformance on a consolidated basis with regard to pressures on the consumer, we had mentioned last quarter that the cost of living in certain European markets has been having an impact. We continue to see that dynamic, resulting in fewer large onetime payments. Although the proportion of customers paying us has remained stable within the U.S., we see a relatively stable collections environment and are not seeing any significant impact from customer segments that may be experiencing stress. However, to the extent such consumer stress becomes evident, we intend to manage this dynamically through a combination of various contact strategies, alternative offer strategies and where applicable and expansion of legal collections. Erc at December 31st was $6.4 billion, which was up 12% compared to $5.7 billion at December 31st last year. On a sequential basis, our ERC increased 423 million, with ERC in the U.S. increasing by 147 million. We expect to collect $1.5 billion of our ERC balance during the next 12 months. It's important to note that this number only reflects the amount we expect to collect on our existing portfolio. It does not include the cash we expect to collect from new purchases made over the next 12 months based on the average purchase price multiples being recorded in 2023, we would need to invest approximately $858 million globally over the same timeframe to replace U.S. runoff and maintain current ERC levels in this environment of increasing supply, we expect that we can exceed this investment level and gross ERC during 2024.
Our capital structure remains strong with a debt to adjusted EBITDA leverage ratio of 2.89 times at December 31st. Our long-term goal is to have our sustained leverage be in the two to three times range in all three of our credit facilities. We have deep banking relationships, most of which stretch back over a decade in term of our funding capacity, we have $3.2 billion in total committed capital to draw under our credit facilities. Our bank clients have margins ranging from 235 to 380 basis points of a benchmark that provide an attractive cost of capital. As of December 31st, we had total availability of $1.3 billion, comprised of $344 million based on our current ERC and $939 million of additional availability that we can draw from subject to debt covenants, including advance rates lastly, given we have our 2025 senior notes maturing in the fall of next year, we are actively monitoring the capital markets. We believe the capital available under our credit facilities. The cash generated from our business and access to capital markets in both the US and Europe position us favorably to accommodate the expected build in portfolio supply. With that, I'll turn it back to Vik.

Vikram Atal

Thank you, Rakesh. Over the nine months to December 2023, we have taken significant decisive action to stabilize performance. And finally, the turnaround of our business with particular emphasis on IVUS operations. The new leadership team, supplemented by the onboarding of industry consultants with significant operational experience is focused on the key initiatives needed to turnaround the US business with a broad scope and emphasis on speed and above all a commitment for the quality of our execution.
Our road map to enhance profitability is supported by key fits first, ERC and pricing, which allows us to grow the portfolio with discipline. Second, operational effectiveness, which focuses on maximizing cash collected per dollar, invested on our existing back book and further expense management, which is geared to optimizing our cost structure.
Let me now address each of these pillars into first ERC and pricing. We have benefited from significant growth in portfolio supply within the U.S. in 2023, as shown by the chart on the left of the slide, there is a strong correlation between industry credit card charge-off rates and our US portfolio purchases as supply in the U.S. continues to build, driven by rising industry credit card balances and higher delinquency and charge-off rates. We expect another very strong year for U.S. portfolio purchases. On the other hand, given the historic preponderance of spot transactions in the European market, the precise timing and amount of investment opportunities in Europe are less predictable. We remain disciplined in our capital allocations and intensely focused on ensuring we can underwrite and purchase portfolios responsibly through the cycle. And to reiterate, with respect to pricing, we have placed significant emphasis on both pricing new purchases and proactively managing pricing on existing forward for agents to fully reflect market conditions. The repricing of certain large forward flows took effect in the latter part of 2023. As a result, we will began begin realizing these year-over-year pricing improvements and associated uplift to portfolio income in 2024 by portfolio growth and pricing are important factors driving cash collections and revenues.
Pillar number two, which we have referred to as operational effectiveness. It's absolutely central to our ultimate success as it seeks to extract value from the portfolios that we already own, recognizing that there were numerous shortfalls and operational execution across our U.S. business, we launched multiple initiatives in April 2023. This was to materialize around two principal actions, first, golf interactions and second legal activities. Could you back to our call centers during 2023, we address gaps in inventory management, optimize Dido strategies, enhanced customer engagement processes can be configured, offers and rebuild capacity to support portfolio. Further, our ongoing review of processes, network testing and additional chains and contact strategies to drive customer engagement. This process was fully rolled out in the fourth quarter and has shown very encouraging results with regard to incremental payment plans being established.
Second, axis of our operational effectiveness focuses on our end-to-end digital processes with a particular emphasis on post judgment, activity added 105, very significant opportunities with regard to our existing inventory of judgments. Addressing these opportunities require enhancements to multiple internal processes as well as the establishment of new third-party relationships, which commenced early in the second quarter of 2023 and were largely completed in the fourth quarter following the run-up, we have seen a meaningful increase in post judgment value creation. We expect the associated cash collection from the opportunities identified to date to be in excess of $100 million commencing in the first half of 2024 with the majority anticipated or thought through by year end 2026.
Looking ahead, we continue to evaluate additional improvements to our legal collection processes. While my remarks regarding the call center and legal processes focus on existing portfolios, these enhancements are also applied to new investments that we are making over the long term. This should make us both more profitable and a more competitive buyer of portfolios.

Rakesh Sehgal

Should.

Vikram Atal

Third important pillar to our business turnaround is expense management. Since our industry is cyclical and highly competitive. It is imperative that we have an expense management structure that is flexible and enables us to drive lower marginal costs while continuing to ensure optimal customer outcomes our expenses for 2024 are expected to reflect a number of euro major pressures, largely offset by the benefit of our cost management program. The factors contributing to increased costs include growth in business volumes, both in the U.S. and globally call center contact strategy, changes in the U.S., investments in our legal channel, inflationary impacts and appropriate investments in digital and analytics capabilities, our cost management programs and careful focus with real intensity on countering this impact with actions to a restructure and eliminate nonessential processes and cost, be reexamined and simplify our operational and management processes and see rebalanced resources to leverage lower cost locations. These actions are designed to build overall expense flexibility to operate efficiently across the business cycle. In the first quarter of 2023, we completed a reduction in force in the US and restructure our Italy business. We also implemented new processes through automation initiatives that eliminated over 100 vendor resources supporting the U.S. business, and we closed a non-strategic U.S. call center in the third quarter. Further, in the fourth quarter of 2020, we restructure our Australia business as it relates to reexamining and simplifying processes. We have taken numerous steps to increase call center productivity. We are also deploying new workforce management tools and have enhanced our vendor management processes and oversight. In addition, we implemented a dynamic business privatization process to drive requisite speed in our operational decision. And finally, we are intensely focused on lowering our Midland cost of operations historically beyond its US business has been almost entirely supported by domestic resources starting early in the second quarter of 2023, we began implementing a strategic shift on this front which has led to an expansion of an existing partnership and the establishment of relationships with two well-recognized global service providers to demonstrate the progress of these efforts have process that required upwards of 150 resources was successfully offshore in the fourth quarter. We have a target to have less than 25% of this team to be based in the US by the end of the first half of 2024. Additionally, we have successfully piloted an offshore call center in the fourth quarter of 2023 and are moving rapidly to scale-up operations in 2024. Based on the initiatives underway and others that are planned, we anticipate that our utilization of resources in lower cost locations by the end of 2024 will be up almost 500 full-time employees from the level we had in 2022 with the expense mitigation actions that have been completed and high confidence and others that are in flight. We are targeting overall expense levels to grow at a meaningfully slower pace year-over-year in 2014 compared to cash collection having laid out a road map as to a turnaround, it is important to summarize the key themes and link this back to measurable outcomes. First, we expect strong portfolio investment levels, largely driven by the projected increase in U.S. portfolio supply.
Second, we expect cash collections to grow by double digits compared to 2023, driven by higher portfolio purchases and improved pricing. But as importantly, by the execution of cash generation initiatives on our existing back book, we anticipate modest expense growth compared to double digit growth in cash collections, driving cash efficiency levels into the low 60% range for 2024 to identify turnaround into context and provide an overall metric capturing the creation of shareholder value. We are introducing return on average tangible equity as an added metric to our existing measures of performance and expect to achieve a return on average tangible equity of 6% to 8% for the full year. It's important to note that the financial improvement is expected to gain momentum through the year as the cash generating and operating initiatives are scaled Further, we expect this metric dependency additional uplift as we move beyond 2024.
In closing, while we are encouraged by the pace and progress of the business turnaround, we recognize that achieving our aspirations to become a high-performing company requires ongoing focus so that we are building out a roadmap and tuning our view on require organizational needs and capacity with expectation to drive additional shareholder value as we move into 2025 and beyond.
I wish to conclude by thanking our shareholders and broader set of stakeholders for your continued support through an important transition year at PRA. And with that, we are now ready for questions.

Question and Answer Session

Operator

(Operator Instructions) David Scharf, JMP.

So yes, good afternoon. Thanks for taking my questions. I appreciate all the background on the operational initiatives. Vic, and I wanted to maybe follow up on your comments regarding kind of off your call center piloting. You maybe I didn't write down quick enough, but can you give us a sense for how you're viewing the longer term in our call center model at the company? And specifically whether you feel the Company can achieve the kind of returns and and both assets and tangible equity that you're targeting without a substantial move, a substantial mix of the collections taking place offshore. Obviously, your largest US competitor has been collecting U.S. collections out of India for close to 20 years. Can you just give us a little more sense for how we ought to think about what the domestic versus offshore and collection mix is being targeted at? And can you also provide based on both your piloting and your analysis, what the cost differential is based on currently?
Yes, Tom, so I'll let me take the second part of your question, David. First to say in all, we we don't disclose the cost differential between the U.S. and overseas. And I don't want to get ahead of myself there, but I can tell you that, Tim, the purpose of it should take advantage of what we believe to be tangible differentials in the labor cost between the U.S. and overseas.
With regard to the first part of your question, in terms of where we would see this mature into, we are taking the view that it is too early to determine what the ultimate balance will be between the U.S. and offshore. And any other factors, as we pointed out in the remarks on we have piloted right, which means we have just started up, you know, the first phase of our offshore program, how we are looking to scale that up, armed with Brexit.
It's speed probably through the first half of 2024, along with scaling it up.
We are rigorously tracking the operating performance metrics of the pilot and the expansion program to ensure that not only are we getting the benefit of lower labor costs, but that we are getting a drop there, file performance from the team on and as we go through the second half of the year, we will have a better view with regard to some decisions that might need to be made with regard to the ultimate balance of in addition, of course, we are, as you know, have been working for a while on the or continue to expand our digital presence.
So there's a lot of factors that go into this.
And I think we will be in a better place to have this conversation with you and others at the back end of this year. Once these once these pilots and the learnings have been embedded into our into our business understanding.
But I understood. And maybe just to follow up on the the outlook for purchase volumes in the US. I mean, obviously balances in are at record highs and loss rates have returned to pre-pandemic levels. I'm just curious, is there any change in behavior among your key sellers, whether there looking to unload more than they typically do, whether they're using collection agencies instead of selling selling to you. Just trying to get a sense for whether and the of your maybe top five sellers is so a bit differently than you would expect at this time part of the cycle?
Hey, David, it's my cash. I'll take that one. So look, we see a very stable selling environment here up from a seller's perspective, the market structure by changing in the U.S., we expect yet another strong year of buying from our perspective. And importantly, we expect pricing also to be holding up at the levels that we're seeing, which are significantly improved, as I mentioned in my remarks earlier on the Americas Core, if not getting better from where we are. So we feel good, as Vic mentioned.
And then the outlook for 2024, we feel very good from a U.S. perspective, both from a volume perspective as well as from pricing.
Thanks so much.
Okay.

Operator

Mark Hughes, Truist.

Mark Hughes

Yes, thank you. Good afternoon and it does the i-mode via stockholder or a stockholder's equity include AOCI. or exclude AOCI?
I'm just wondering if you have that EUR1.5 billion from 10.2 billion.
Can I just ask first, I see.
So you have the 1.2 billion that's reflected net of AOCI. mark.
Right?
And is that the a bogey, we should be looking at left the goodwill of 430 million?
That's exactly right.
Okay.
And then just to be clear, is that an after-tax return of 6% to 8%?
Yes, we are looking at. So maybe just to give a little color. So we're talking about a 6% to 8% on average return on tangible equity. So we're talking about net income attributable to PRA, and that is going to be on an after tax basis.
And the other thing importantly, to keep in mind, we're giving guidance for the full year, and you've seen our results up in Q4 of 2023. And we've, as we mentioned about the imperative around stabilizing the business in 23 and then turning it around and continuing to grow. So that growth in 2024, importantly is going to be over time. We're working on a lot of cash initiatives that Bill outlined earlier on the call that are going to get scaled up as we move into 2020 for the coming months. And then at the same time, we expect expenses to modestly grow. So cash collections, we expect double digit growth and then expenses modestly. And we're going to see a lot of the benefits coming over the coming quarters in 2024 Yes, appreciate all the detail.
Your portfolio income should grow faster than cash collections.
So look, we should see cash collections up doing the double digit.
And then portfolio income is going to continue to grow. But I would say that's going to be up on a quarterly basis. You'll see it growing year over year, slightly under on the cash collections. Remember that portfolio income is also dependent on our full book and there are, but the lower yielding vintages that we have purchased recently in the 2020 to 2022 timeframe that would continue to impact that portfolio income. But we're very optimistic here up market as we've seen the improvement now for the last two quarters as portfolio income has started, we will be up in the right direction. We expect that to continue going into the next few quarters of 2024.
Yes.
Again, thanks for this detail. Appreciate it.
Thank you.

Operator

John Rowan, Janney.

John Rowan

Your line is now open source community and goes home and just wanted to make sure I understand all the guidance correctly. So there is the number of 1.5 billion of collections, but that's just under their current ERC, but you're guiding for collections to be up double digits. That would imply something north of 1.8 billion. Am I correct? I'm just trying to make sure I get the collections than the expense numbers.
Correct.
To put up with the cash efficiency ratio guidance. So is the $1.8 billion give or take kind of the the baseline figure for our cash collections for the year, assuming at least a 10% growth rate?
Yes, I think you are thinking about it correctly, which is a 1.5 billion is just our ERC. That does not take into account the new buying that's going to happen as well as the cash collections. So I think you are headed in the right direction that we're talking about a cash collection number that is north of that 1.5 billion. And so you're absolutely headed in the right direction.
Okay. But then just to make sure your expense numbers are correct. So you're you're saying that there's modest growth or you had $702 million expenses in this year and there were a couple of items in there that were nonrecurring or nonoperational in the first and the third quarters. So are we just expecting growth there?
I mean, our operating expense is supposed to be north of $702 million for 2024 Yes, the way I would approach that is up, as Vic said, we are going to continue to invest in the business to grow the business and there is the expense management program. And so there will be modest growth in expenses.
But the way to think about it is we have cash collections growth that is going to be significantly higher than the growth in those expenses.
And just to be clear, Mark, we don't have a governor in the business on the dollar amount of expenses that we are looking at the business and say we want to optimize and maximize cash collections in an appropriate way. And if that requires additional expense spend, we will do that.
I think the way that what we would guide your thinking on this is to say that the expense growth rate will be it will be will be lower than the other. And then the cash collections rate definitely seems okay.

Operator

Robert Dodd, Raymond James.

Robert Dodd

Tom. First first a question about about purchasing them. In the in your prepared remarks, you talked about you on, you know, you are being a little bit hard to predict it right. Is it getting more? So is the question. I mean, even even the forward flow agreements for in here are lower this quarter than they were last quarter and obviously down more than half from where they were this time last year. So has there been any definition from change in higher disposal for flow in Europe or is it getting even more spot oriented com than it was even a year ago or six months ago?
Any color that and I don't think so, Robert, I think that, um, you know, the behavior of sellers in Europe is remain the same. And still we have a forward flow arrangements that are below the major institution. The cross-sell across the of the continent.
And in the UK, I think unlike the US, the US, we have not seen the same uptick of a similar uptick in losses.
You know, across the across the barn and so there's no Brazil will not change. I think as we pointed out in our remarks, there were fewer spot transactions that came to market in the fourth quarter and you know we that timing is dependent on when our players choose to bring that to market. So no, there's no change in in seller behavior, and we are making sure that we are taking a young in building our expectations for 2024 that we do not have your expectations on the outside, what we recently experiencing. So we're being we're being careful not to over estimate of, you know what the future buying would be. We want to be like glow of running this business with appropriate with appropriate based on assumptions.
Got that Thank you. And as I said, one more on building the that the institution was, does the six to eight include any assumptions?
Our forward change in incurreds are expected from your change in curve shapes during the course of 2024. And in prepared remarks, if you execute, then you said we had a higher flow through in change in expected collections but is any of that built into the six to eight target or is that excluded from the?
Yes.
So I think as we tried to point out, rightly on the portfolio, the income line is sort of locked in by effectively as we buy some brackets, right? And I think to the extent that the some of the initiatives we have and create incremental value, right of that flows in as an uptick against that. So so I think that's I would just reiterate the remarks we made in the script.
Forget, rubber.
That's what I was mentioning earlier, right, you have the two line items. And so we do expect through overperformance, for example, in the buses, what our current current Star as these initiatives come into play, we would expect that cash flow performance. And then to the extent we see some sustained improvement out, we'll make some decisions around job around the line item going forward.
Thank you.

Operator

As a reminder, if you have any questions, please press star followed by number one here. Don't worry. And just to confirm, there are no further questions at this time. I will now hand the call over to Vic Adele, President and CEO. Please continue.
Thank you, everybody, for joining us this evening and look forward to continuing our conversation through an exciting 2024.
Thank you.
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.