Space offers ‘a fundamentally different environment’ for R&D: ISS chief scientist
International Space Station National Laboratory Chief Scientist Dr. Michael Roberts speaks with Yahoo Finance's Allie Garfinkle about the opportunities for companies in space, increasing access for research & development, and the outlook for the International Space Station and other space infrastructure projects.
Video Transcript
DAVE BRIGGS: All right, our coverage of the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas continues now where Yahoo Finance's Allie Garfinkle had a chance to speak with the chief scientist of the International Space Station National Laboratory, Dr. Michael Roberts, about the future of the station and its partnerships with the likes of SpaceX and others.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: We're here along with our partners in industry to talk about access to the International Space Station for research and technology development. NASA continues to do research in space, but the International Space Station National Laboratory offers opportunities above that. So industries large and small across the United States now have access to space to do R&D in space that benefits us here on Earth, and that's a new twist on access to space.
ALLIE GARFINKLE: Well, it sounds like it's important to you that people know that the station is open for access.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: Absolutely. So, you know, for the first time in history, we have frequent access to space through the activities of SpaceX and Cygnus operated by Northrop Grumman and a new player from Sierra Space coming online soon. There are lots of ways to get cargo and crew and persons up to the International Space Station and beyond. So we're looking to build that even further in the future.
The International Space Station is going to be operating until 2030 or so, but that's not going to be the end of it. There will be commercial platforms operating in space, joining the space station from China, that offer access to space for people all across the world.
ALLIE GARFINKLE: So I'd love to hear a little bit about what some of the benefits of doing R&D in space look like from your perspective.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: Yeah. So we've all seen, I think, videos of crew members playing with water by squirting it or playing with M&Ms in the space environment, so you understand that it's fundamentally a very different environment than we have here on Earth. That translates into fundamental studies about the physics of objects.
So we've worked with material-science companies that are trying to improve turbine blades for use in spacecraft and aircraft engines. We work with companies that are seeking to improve materials for use in high-performance automotive engines. We work with engineers who work in propulsion systems that are trying to refine and increase fuel efficiency in engines.
And we also work heavily with the pharmaceutical sector. So living in space for a long period of time is a lot of fun, but it also wears on your body. Our immune systems don't function as well in that space environment. Our bones and muscles start to weaken over time. So you can exploit that if you're a medical researcher and understand ways to combat that here on Earth.
So a lot of the things that happen to us as we naturally age can also occur with a six-month exposure to microgravity environment. Astronauts' immune systems don't work quite as well in space as they do here on Earth. Their bones and muscles start to weaken. So it's an opportunity for pharmaceutical companies to explore new therapeutics that can help prevent the onset of those conditions here on Earth.
ALLIE GARFINKLE: And one of the interesting applications I was hearing about earlier today was Tide. Astronauts-- my understanding is astronauts have to work out three hours a day so their muscles don't atrophy, and their clothes get sweaty, and they can't change those clothes because you can't do laundry in space.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: Yeah, one of the hidden secrets of life in space is that you get to wear a lot of the clothes over and over and over again. So it's a five-year-old boy's dream, right? Never have to change clothes. Never have to take a shower.
ALLIE GARFINKLE: And you're in space.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: Just kind of hang out and do stuff, right? That's all you have to do. But yeah, it's an issue.
And a lot of it comes down to mass, right? I mean, in order to take a change of clothes, you're adding mass to what you have to do. It's not that big of an issue in low-Earth orbit on the International Space Station, but when you start thinking about going to moon and Mars, that mass penalty, that weight becomes an issue.
So Procter & Gamble is working with NASA to refine the technologies that they can use for stain removal and cleaning clothes so that we can have a ability to clean while we're in space. It also helps Procter & Gamble in that they're looking for ways to be more energy efficient. We are now living in times of greater water scarcity than at any time in the history of humanity. So understanding ways to improve our ability to clean clothes and use water more efficiently translates to important things here on Earth as well.
ALLIE GARFINKLE: Well, and I'd love to hear-- because you have a lot of high-profile partners, not only Procter & Gamble but SpaceX famously is a partner of the lab. I'd love to hear a little bit about how you approach those partnerships broadly and specifically.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: Yeah, so we are the downstream benefactors of the great strides that SpaceX and other companies have made. So the ability to reuse space vehicles has completely changed where I live. I live near Kennedy Space Center in Florida. So we have now launches that go up every week or every other week, and the great thing is part of the launch comes back down every time they launch something up. That has done a tremendous amount of good for everybody in that it's driven down the cost of getting access to space.
They've expanded that capability at SpaceX from simply doing logistics, launching supplies, to including humans now. So the cost of living and working in space is going to become cheaper over time and become more accessible.
That's already translated into the opportunities to do experiments for science, technology, engineering, and mathematics outreach for STEM education. We have payloads that go to space that are developed and paid for entirely by middle schools, high schools now, in addition to projects that are led by students at universities. So all of that driving down costs and increasing frequency of access is good.
It also enables access for companies in that they don't have to start thinking about, well, I'm going to tie up a member of my staff for two years and have one flight opportunity, and it's going to cost millions of dollars to do that. So as costs continue to come down, we're going to see even more entrepreneurs stepping into that realm as well.
ALLIE GARFINKLE: Well, and access is really important to you clearly, and one of the things we talked about before the cameras started rolling was that you want to attract more kinds of people into this sort of work. So I'd love to hear about how you approach diversity and how the Astronaut Corps has evolved over time from your perspective.
MICHAEL ROBERTS: Yeah. So in addition to just being a really good idea, NASA has worked very hard to increase diversity across every job within the agency. So we now have a not-- it's not just ones or twos. There are minority-serving institutions which feed directly into NASA that have developed flight directors at Houston, that offer new advantages for students to get into the Astronaut Corps.
And we work at a more fundamental level at International Space Station National Lab in that we understand we lose a lot of diversity in elementary school. A lot of kids are turned off from science, technology, engineering, and mathematics courses because they think they're not for them. So we have, as part of our portfolio, a very active engagement to develop education programs that leverage access to the station, International Space Station, because it's very exciting in the mind of a child to think about, well, I can live and work in space some time or I can design an experiment that goes up into space.
